And yet Eleanore went into full supervillain mode ASAP, while Louise never did.

If Louise started Evil it was incredibly lowkey Evil that's questionably evil.
There's no such thing as questionable Evil. Haven't you been listening to Karin? I mean none of her kids clearly did and they all fell to Evil.

Louise went full supervillain the instant she heard from Scarron about the Regency Council, her fiance's adultery, and Henrietta's imprisonment and has been deeper in the Evil closet than she's ever been in the bisexuality closet ever since.
 
Deep in the depths of the Abyss, Gnarl sprawled out on a comfy lounge, his suit decidedly mussed. He sat on the lap of a handsome and horny demon, while a pair of demonesses stroked his ears. He wriggled in joy, purring slightly.

And then he straitened up, frowning. Looking at the back of his left hand, he winced as the brand faded.

"Well, well, well," he observed to no one in particular. "Isn't that interesting?"
...
Doesn't the familiar bond only break when one of them dies?
 
I would actually argue that Elanor's alignment is evil. More in that her disposition and approach tend to cruel and harmful than being aligned with the abyss.

The fact Louise didn't even notice the mind altering nature of the artifact, and lets face it Gnarl is the one who has been corrupting her the old fashioned way in a step by step approach.

The irony ilathal mentioned above is delicious when contrasting the two sisters.
 
I really had hoped Louise killed Eleanore there.

In a world filled to the brim with characters that I absolutely despise from, Eleanore is the individual I hate most.

ES, congrats, because you've managed to make a version of Eleanore I hate more than the one from canon, which is a fucking amazing achievement.

I really, really, hope Eleanore ends up perma-dead by the end of this fic. I mean, Louise at her worst is deeply, deeply frustrating, but I just keep imagining strangling Eleanore and it feels so good.
 
I really, really, hope Eleanore ends up perma-dead by the end of this fic. I mean, Louise at her worst is deeply, deeply frustrating, but I just keep imagining strangling Eleanore and it feels so good.
If you hate Eleanore that much, why would you want he merely dead? Having to live with having embarrassingly been corrupted by the Gauntlet in an instant, possibly also having to side with Louise in her plan against the Regency Council and be one of Louise's lieutenants and follow her youngest sister's orders whilst hiding from Karin's wrath is far more interesting than merely biting it.

Speaking of Karin, I'm quite curious about that family reunion is going to turn out. I'm pretty sure that at this point, it's something of a coin flip if she'll end up blowing up the country due to not being able to process all the emotions that come from being so disgustingly heroic and failing to keep all of your children from turning Evil, or if she'll just have an aneurysm from said emotions.
 
Hmm do what needs to be done to done to deal with then kick in the gates of the Abyss as the inhabitants flee in terror as she brings down her righteous fury?
 
If you hate Eleanore that much, why would you want he merely dead? Having to live with having embarrassingly been corrupted by the Gauntlet in an instant, possibly also having to side with Louise in her plan against the Regency Council and be one of Louise's lieutenants and follow her youngest sister's orders whilst hiding from Karin's wrath is far more interesting than merely biting it.
...that would require me to read more of Eleanore being Eleanore, which is borderline migraine-inducing for me.

The thing which infuriates me the most, and there are a lot of infuriating things about Eleanore in this incarnation, is that she's managed to fool herself into honestly believing she is being good, when she's turned all of her evil impulses into actively torturing her sisters. Louise, at least, is marginally self-aware about her paper-thin excuse of a 'plan.' Eleanore isn't even that, she's a complete cunt to virtually every single person in her entire life and she tells herself she's taking the more moral path of behavior.

I'm sorry if I'm being unnecessarily hyperbolic about all this, but pointless, unnecessary, cruelty is a hot button for me. It's just... objectively suboptimal, to borrow a phrase. Eleanore is using the excuse of acting in her sister's best interest to twist the knife and destroy her plans and goals in the most painful way possible for Louise... it rankles.
 
Well Eleanore became an Evil nutter rather quick. Seriously, her wand is right there on the ground and she can't tell anyone she doesn't know at least some healing spells.

But nope, right onto the Evil-train, choo! choo! first stop; monologuing!

I really hope Louise manages to recover the Gauntlet from her sister, preferably via removing Eleanore's arm, because she is never going to let her live this down. Yeah, Louise is Evil with a capital E, but she was the smart kind of Evil, the 'Make them love you, fear you' kind of Evil. The smart kind of Evil. She is the kind of Evil people enjoy. And despite being Evil Louise still at least wants to be Good, or at least deludes herself into thinking she can be.

Huh, that's an interesting contrast.

Louise knows she's Evil, she doesn't deny it (much), but she wants to be Good.

Eleanore is Evil but she's deluded herself into thinking she's Good, but will use the pretence of being Good as an excuse to do Evil in a heartbeat. She likes being Evil.

Louise tries to control her Evil to do her bidding.

Eleanore however tries (and fails) to not be controlled by her Evil to do it's bidding.
 
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Elanor is a De La Valerie, she is evil at institutionally acceptable targets: ie "evil" stuff. Because it is okay to kill random stuff for shits, giggles, and cash so long as it is socially acceptable to do so. She actually isn't all that different from many D&D PCs i have seen when seen from the outside. Heroes/PCs can often come across as complete and utter psychopaths when looked at from an outside perspective.

My major problem with Elanor is her mashing the emotional buttons of someone with a sign that says "high suicide risk" around her neck.

GhostStalker did just make a good point, will the minions actually notice Louise is not in fact their current boss? They have no runes to bind them either to Louise or Elanor, but they are used to obeying Louise. If Elanor gets wacked by minions in the middle of her evil monologue i will have to laugh.
 
Well Eleanore became an Evil nutter rather quick. Seriously, her wand is right there on the ground and she can't tell anyone she doesn't know at least some healing spells.

I think that's where the blind as a bat without her glasses comes into play. If I lost my glasses in the snow when the sun is rising or setting I would either get help or return when it's brighter out because I wouldn't be able to find anything in the snow
 
I see what I see what you did there. But yeah, Gnarl will probably be the only minion to understand what just happened there after Eleanore put on the Gauntlet. Only question is if he thinks she will make a better or more fitting Overlady than Louise.
Thematically, Eleanore is the superior Overlady.

But in effectiveness?

Eleanore has literally no friends, and she has all but alienated her own flesh and blood siblings. Good points for being Evil... not so much for surviving to actually do anything with that Evil.

If you put Eleanore in Louise's position at the start she would probably be dead already, likely at her own mother's hands. She far too proud and arrogant for her own good. Louise has connections to the Abyss through Scarron and Jessica because they like her. With Eleanore, she would have just pissed them off which means she misses recruiting Jessica. Without an introduction to the Abyss she can't get into the Palace, which means she misses recruiting Henrietta and getting the Gem and a piece of the Heart. This also means she misses making an alliance with King-what's-his-face. Without the Palace Heart Piece she can't get into Astradame to get the Heart Piece there.

In fact, Eleanore being Eleanore, her being the Overlady is impossible to do covert missions. She's simply too proud and arrogant. She has a need for others to know that it was her that beat them, that it was she who succeeded in her plot.

That brings Karin down on her.

Game Over.

So yeah, Gnarl might actually like Eleanore better as an Overlady in how she acts and behaves... But I doubt he would keep that opinion when she throws him as a projectile to delay the oncoming storm that is her very angry and very righteous mother.

There is no point in having power, if you cannot live to use it after all. A very important rule that Louise has been living by ever since she started out.
 
There's no such thing as questionable Evil. Haven't you been listening to Karin? I mean none of her kids clearly did and they all fell to Evil.

Louise went full supervillain the instant she heard from Scarron about the Regency Council, her fiance's adultery, and Henrietta's imprisonment and has been deeper in the Evil closet than she's ever been in the bisexuality closet ever since.
The capitalization shift was entirely deliberate and meaningful. You missed the point in re Evil vs evil.

Also Karin's explictly not comprehending that no, not everyone can actually just decide to third option all no-win scenarios.
Man, people in this thread seem to have a hard time remembering that the protagonist is explicitly Delusional Evil.
That's because the behaviours we think of for delusional villains who don't think they're Evil/evil are generally NOT reasonably precisely strikes on other villians.
 
Well Eleanore became an Evil nutter rather quick. Seriously, her wand is right there on the ground and she can't tell anyone she doesn't know at least some healing spells.
I think that's where the blind as a bat without her glasses comes into play. If I lost my glasses in the snow when the sun is rising or setting I would either get help or return when it's brighter out because I wouldn't be able to find anything in the snow

Further Louise was very mean and kicked that wand into a puddle of wet snow, so it likely is not even visible from the surface, and again Louis was very mean when she destroyed Eleanore's glasses. And Eleanore does know healing spells, and a rather impressive collection at that, given how easily she cast an evil variant at the drop of a hat. All she needed to do was find a casting implement. In the immediate vicinity she was reduced to the Gauntlet (in her hands already) or her wand (kicked into one of many snow drifts in the vicinity). Given that the state of her vision is so bad that hitting a Louise sized target at easy conversation range was considered beyond her capabilities, I think that she made a pretty good call not wasting time looking for her own wand.

For example, in similar circumstances of losing my glasses I have only found them after stepping on and breaking them, which as one might imagine would be less than ideal.

There was also a massive dark god inflicting eldritch insectile horrors on all the people in the immediate vicinity who might have been able to help.
 
Although... Oh, bugger; now the minions work for Eleanore.
Maybe. Maybe not. Will Eleanore let them loot stuff?

Oh, wow. I didn't realize it before but Louise can dump everything on Elanor if the heroes show up. After all Louise isn't the one who just trapped Montspan's soul, has glowing eyes, an evil artifact, or villainous monologue. Poor Louise is guilty of, gasp, organizing a Founder's Day celebration. Besides everyone knows Louise is too incompetent to cast magic much less be an evil overlord.

Given i don't think she would even try that, she is too stubborn to try such a devious ploy.
Some people are born devious, some plot ploys, and some stubborn girls have devious ploys thrust upon them.
 
Keep in mind she's suffering massive wound penalties.

She got corrupted in like... five minutes tops? And she could have trown the gaunlet to the river since she didn't know blue minions can swim. She has fire magic, melt the ice, gaunlet is temporarily unavailable.

And really a true Overlord or Overlady doesn't let his or her evil artifact of power control her.

Louise likes doing evil, but is in denial and does it for her own goals. Her Big Sis may as well be from the branch family by how easy she is being ordered around by the gaunlet.

Let's be honest here, the gaunlet just wants Louise to kill her sister. Why else would she activate cheat mode and mind control Eleanore?

If Louise dies Oh well, whatever.
 
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She got corrupted in like... five minutes tops? And she could have trown the gaunlet to the river since she didn't know blue minions can swim. She has fire magic, melt the ice, gaunlet is temporarily unavailable.

No focus for casting, no spells get cast. She needs her wand to cast without using the Gauntlet, and has frankly terrible eyesight.

Not that any of this is a problem since she just drowned a whole lot of minions in that river, so the water must be exposed. She also saw through her familiar's eyes that the blue minions were fishing the others out of the river and resurrecting them. Probably why she does not throw it in the river.
 
Something else to keep in mind is that- Eleanore is arrogant, high handed with all that her that implies.

I'm not so sure self righteous fits however.

It's hard and it's thankless and it means having to put up with a lot of very, very, very stupid people. But…"

I said earlier that Eleanore was empathizing in an arrogant manner with Louise and here's were you see the empathy. Remember Eleanore will challenge people to duels for being wrong. The above is heavily implied to be how she personally sees being good.

Which given that she's not belittling Louise for being weak (stupid yes, very much so. It is Eleanore and she's very mean) Eleanore sees being good as by her mother's definition as being difficult.

She also is very aware of her family's past. She was the one that accidentally let out the Bloody Duke which led to her sister being turned into a vampire. And if implied to feel guilty over it.

Eleanore paused, "… and a vampire serving her."

And honestly I'd be surprised if some of that self confidence wasn't an act.

Callouses from wand use. Bitten nails.

Eleanore bites her nails. I have yet to know anyone with bitten nails that didn't do it as a stress response.

Which also brings up the consideration that some people react to stress by
a) lording themselves over people
b) being as mean as hell

"At the heart of it, Eleanore, there is Good and there is Evil. There is right and there is wrong. And though Evil will try to tempt you, you must stay strong and resist its blandishments. Your father's heritage is as wicked as it comes, but he stands strong against it – and so can you. I believe you will be able to do great and Good things, my dear, if you can resist the easy compromises of sin. I expect nothing less of you! And on that note, I also expect that you learn how to prepare your own potions to inhibit fertility and prevent infection well before you are old enough to need them, because sometimes accidents happen when adventuring far from potion suppliers alongside dashing young heroes. Not that I am calling you an accident. Even if you were one."

Karina de la Vallière, speaking to her 14-year old eldest daughter

Eleanore was old enough to recall what the family home was like before her parents killed/rekilled half the staff. And said parents include a mother that puts down the choice of good and evil as very black and white. Who also will straight up tell her daughter to her face that she's an accident.

If any of the daughters were to develop a complex around not being a villain Eleanore would be the most likely due to seeing what her family can get up to, her parents response to that, then compounding it by being why her sister got vamp'd.
 
A thought has occurred to me. Karin is usually the parent the comments have been speculating on the reactions of when talking about ever Vallerie sister turning Evil, but I'm beginning to wonder about the Duke's feelings on the subject. I mean he's the white sheep of a very Evil family and if he finds out how far his kids have spiraled, how is that going to make him feel? Leaving aside Karin possibly deciding that they have to kill them all, what sort of feeling does it inspire in someone that all they did to distance themselves from their bloodline was at best a fluke? Or that some combination of Karin and his parenting or lack of interference in each other's parenting method might have actually pushed their children to Evil and that turning out to be the white sheep of the Vallerie family wasn't a fluke?

Probably a really god damn terrible feeling I bet. Like, I kinda want to lie down and not think about having thought up this line of thought bad.
 
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