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Overlady: Attack of the Minions (Thread II)

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Void spirit said:
Forget what grandpa Louis said, if wishing his ancestors under his control, but Karin might have also made Valliers even worse (Evil language).

Can actually know some morality so no falling for "Evil can't understand good". Setting better traps and sadistic choices for Good heroes.
One man armies as said that above that Good heroes can usually go gains overwhelming odds and win.
More strong willed as they are not under control of Louis, maybe resist a bit mind influences of others?
Anything else?
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There might be some merit to this line of thought. After all, Catt's outings have resulted in the deaths of a plenty of people, especially when she's found a new girl for her "maid" staff. Louise herself has taken to Evil magic like a duck to committing Evil acts, and isn't showing any sign of slowing down on the train of learning magic. On top of that she's taken to wearing plate armor with what seems to be less and less trouble as the chapters go on, and can take some hefty hits in it even without counting her options for using Minions as health potions. Even with as few feats as we've gotten from Eleanore thus far, she's already shown herself to be way more cunning than Hero types usually get, especially with traps and prep, and might as well not actually be in prison for all the intel she's been getting.

Typing this all out has gotten me thinking that Louis was wrong about Karin marrying into the family being a good bad objectively suboptimal event for the bloodline.
 
Yep, the younger generation are all pretty good at being Evil, or at least have an big talent for it, even Cattleya who is usually the nicest and most sympathetic character in canon and most fics is a mass murderer in this story who doesn't seem troubled at all at the deaths she has caused.

Kinda would like to read some non-canon story where this Vampire Cattleya and Canon Cattleya meet and talk, and as the talking goes on the Canon Cattleya is getting more and more horrified and wishing to get away.
 
xeivous said:
Typing this all out has gotten me thinking that Louis was wrong about Karin marrying into the family being a good bad objectively suboptimal event for the bloodline.
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It's objectively suboptimal because Karin's daughters murdered him. How is Louis supposed to oversee his eugenics program and make sure that nothing goes right now that his soul has been digested by Cattleya? It's a blessed catastrophe!
 
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Arcus2611 said:
It's objectively suboptimal because Karin's daughters murdered him. How is Louis supposed to oversee his eugenics program and make sure that nothing goes right now that his soul has been digested by Cattleya? It's a blessed catastrophe!
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I said for the bloodline, not for Louis himself.

Given that Louis himself was slain despite all his efforts to keep himself from being permakilled, he himself was objectively suboptimal.
 
xeivous said:
I said for the bloodline, not for Louis himself.

Given that Louis himself was slain despite all his efforts to keep himself from being permakilled, he himself was objectively suboptimal.
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That's not entirely fair, you can be at your best and still be killed by someone better than you, I think the proper word to be used there would be something along the lines of 'massive loser'.
Silentstorm said:
Yep, the younger generation are all pretty good at being Evil, or at least have an big talent for it, even Cattleya who is usually the nicest and most sympathetic character in canon and most fics is a mass murderer in this story who doesn't seem troubled at all at the deaths she has caused.
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That'd likely be because she's a vampire, from what ES has said*, becoming a vampire basically rips out your 'social monkey' software and replaces it with 'apex predator', so you don't get left with much in the way of empathy or a moral compass, Cattleya is the way she is now because she was taught how to be Good by Good people, and as a result she's actually rather caring for a vampire, except that you can't ignore how they're differently wired so she just doesn't get that instinctive sense of disgust when faced with a bloody murder scene that a normal person might.
*If I remember correctly oh please don't kill me if I misunderstood something.
 
xeivous said:
On top of that she's taken to wearing plate armor with what seems to be less and less trouble as the chapters go on, and can take some hefty hits in it
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Armour was copping her mother and to protect identity, other female heroes and villains were usually almost naked and so short lived? She is very well know and was ridiculously successful as hero (Karin crash of Evil economy). I guess if you are taking heroes into bloodline, might as well take best physical specimen.

I think Gnarl said it can sometimes be hard to distinguish heroes and villains. Heroes giving birth to villains and villains having Good kids.
xeivous said:
Given that Louis himself was slain despite all his efforts to keep himself from being permakilled, he himself was objectively suboptimal.
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And I doubt that Cattleya will hear grandpa's voice trying to take over her body or that he will resurrect other any other way. Not paranoid enough?

Is his soul utterly destroyed as vampires feed on life-force, not still in one piece?
It is not like souls that Alucard had eaten in Hellsing anime? So no Schroedinger cat gambit, killing vampire by feeding it wrong souls? ... hmm could Soul be too Holly/Good for vampire to eat? And somehow I think that popes in this fic don't count. I wonder why.
 
Void spirit said:
It is not like souls that Alucard had eaten in Hellsing anime? So no Schroedinger cat gambit, killing vampire by feeding it wrong souls?
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Vampire souls are tied to their bodies, so you can drink them up with blood and thus commit diablerie. Human souls just depart after death under normal circumstances, so vampires can't drink them unless they first turn the victim into a vampire.
 
illhousen said:
Vampire souls are tied to their bodies, so you can drink them up with blood and thus commit diablerie.
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Just got that random thought by chance, so wonted to be sure are we free from Louis or can he come back to cause trouble.

--->Is soul of Louis utterly destroyed to keep Cattleya "alive"? Like food we eat being broken into smaller blocks to build and fuel a body.
No matter how much blood you pour on his ashes, even if his body was whole, or divine intervention was attempted... he stays dead. Forever. There is nothing to bring back. (and hopping for this).

--->If it was as Alucard... souls of peoples he ate were still whole, like maybe stored in some battery of sort. Souls could be destroyed/sacrificed by Alucard to prevent his death or summoned as creatures to fight. Alucard was also having problem when eating soul with wrong kind of ability, as he couldn't distinguish self from other souls he held or something like that.
If this idea proves right, then maybe in theory, Louise could be revived if Cattleya is killed and then necromancer/demon gets his hands on Louis's soul out of land of dead. Or Louis has enough willpower to try make voices in Cattleyas minds, trying to take over her body, or something else to get free.

In both cases, soul of Louis would not be tied to his body/ashes any more, so pouring blood on ashes will not help to bring him back.
Human souls just depart after death under normal circumstances, so vampires can't drink them unless they first turn the victim into a vampire.
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Not sure on that. Might be more like vampire always eating souls or parts of them, as vampire seemingly eat life-force, I think that was mentioned? Minions were double-dead if eaten by vampire, blues can't do anything? Vampires get permanently killed if eaten by vampire, because vampires eat life-force?

So I guess one of those not normal circumstances is for human to be killed by vampire who drank all blood...

Hmm do vampires need blood as medium to feed or could they eat ghosts (probably not very nutritious as souls of alive humans).
That might give some help to Louise as in games, minions had problem with magic and water, like small fairies that charmed them with magic and led into water to drown... except blues who are too stupid or resistant to mind altering magic... or both. And use magic to resurrect minions, along with magic attack as their hands are glowing when striking, as manual of game says that they can hurt ethereal enemies.
Though there are also reds manipulating fire, along with greens being invisible and ignored no matter how much they stink. Cattleya might be used similar to minions for dealing with some magical threats if Louse is in need of shield between self and enemy.... Can Cattleya use magic, beside vampire kind like hypnotic gaze?

Cattleya and blues could be best answer to defeating ghosts and spirits, as one example, if any is met? Doubt that setting them on fire, "clubbing to death", zapping with lighting or drowning in acid will be of much use... Henrietta might also work by binding them under her control, but it's not like Louise is happy with necromancy.
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Best abandon this train of discussion? A random thought that went too far?
 
Void spirit said:
Armour was copping her mother and to protect identity, other female heroes and villains were usually almost naked and so short lived? She is very well know and was ridiculously successful as hero (Karin crash of Evil economy). I guess if you are taking heroes into bloodline, might as well take best physical specimen.
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It's not just copping her mother's look and the actual benefits of wearing metal armor that I'm talking about. Wearing armor and taking hits in it is, at least to me, a skill. One that Louise has become proficient enough in to be able to wear plate armor to dates. Which added to her her magical abilities is making her quite the mini Karin if Karin were Evil.
 
xeivous said:
It's not just copping her mother's look and the actual benefits of wearing metal armor that I'm talking about. Wearing armor and taking hits in it is, at least to me, a skill. One that Louise has become proficient enough in to be able to wear plate armor to dates. Which added to her her magical abilities is making her quite the mini Karin if Karin were Evil.
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First the word that you are looking for is copying, not copping. Second, while armor of the type Louise is wearing can limit range of motion, it actually weighs less than the full combat load of a modern US infantry soldier. Further that weight is better distributed, in the type of armor that Louise is wearing. In some regards, her armor is probably easier to move about in than other sets of clothing that she likely had to learn how to move about in as part of her training for formal occasions as a noble's daughter.

Moving in armor to perform simple tasks as one might need to in the act of engaging in everyday activities as when on a date would be fairly trivial in full plate armor. Tasks which may require some amount of practice to perform with ease while wearing armor may include sprinting, climbing ladders and other steep changes in elevation, and rolling/falling/getting up from a fall.

And yes, I think her wearing armor makes her look like a miniature and Evil version of Karin.
 
Formerly said:
This has me wondering, what would the Evil equivalent to Karin be?
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Oh, Heroes learn fairly quickly how to handle things like mirrors that reflect an opposite version of yourself and other things of that ilk, if they aren't killed by the first one they meet. Indeed, the Hero Party has already encountered one of them.

(Unfortunately for the villain in question, the person they used the mirror on was Tabitha, and so her mirror reflection therefore promptly slew them in the name of justice. And then was killed by real Tabitha with a knife in the back when she wasn't looking.)
 
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Honestly making mirror versions of your enemies just sounds like a bad idea in general, even if the plan goes through without a hitch, you've just copied a team of heroic adventurers and flipped them into sadistic, untrustworthy monsters when you couldn't defeat the heroic versions in the first place (Otherwise you'd currently be turning their heads into pasta sauce with your foot), so after they've killed all the heroic adventurers, you just expect them not to turn on their creator? That's Mad Scientist 101, and since they'd be lacking a moral compass to keep them in check, they're going to have the backing of heroic power levels along with whatever dark ritual they can cook up, and what if you copy one of those Rincewind type heroes? You'd be left with a brave hero who like salads and a cowardly one who sorta dislikes them with both going around causing mayhem.

Also you just know there'd be some nonsense about 'what makes a man?' once they start getting all philosophical about being clones, nobody needs that.
 
EarthScorpion said:
And then was killed by real Tabitha with a knife in the back when she wasn't looking.
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Was she distracted because she was reading?

EDIT: On second thought, we can conclude that mirror Tabitha probably didn't spend all her free time reading, since she didn't develop the finely honed peripheral awareness that would have let her notice her other self attempting to backstab her.

Tabitha: Ze glasses help. I can zee people's reflections een zem."
 
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Arcus2611 said:
Was she distracted because she was reading?

EDIT: On second thought, we can conclude that mirror Tabitha probably didn't spend all her free time reading, since she didn't develop the finely honed peripheral awareness that would have let her notice her other self attempting to backstab her.

Tabitha: Ze glasses help. I can zee people's reflections een zem."
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It's a mirror image we're talking about. She would abhor reading and also eat very little.

Instead, she would like to... ah, shit, we've run out of character traits for Tabitha.
 
xeivous said:
Typing this all out has gotten me thinking that Louis was wrong about Karin marrying into the family being a good bad objectively suboptimal event for the bloodline.
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Ultimately, Louis cared about the Bloodline only as it acted as a extension of his own power, so Karin marrying in was definitely Blessedly Good from his perspective. That it might actually be Damned Bad from some distant omniscient perspective is irreverent, as only Good cares about the distant unbiased perspectives.
 
Aleph said:
The polar opposite of Tabitha, huh?

So basically Kirche, in other words.
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Well, Kirche in temperament.
The rule of mirror universe counterparts is they have to be able to be confused with the non-mirror universe counterpart with a little bit of disguise (usually a change in wardrobe, some light acting, and for the gentlemen a bit of a shave or fake facial hair), and trying to squeeze Kirches temperament into a small, bluenette frame... Her temper probably runs hotter. Which is appropriate, given blue flames are hotter than red ones.
That's also probably how Tabitha managed to sneak up on her - hothead was easily distracted, proving once again that evil prevails because good is dumb.

Mirror universe Tabitha was probably the Blue [Th/Bl]under of Tristain Magic Academy, and (this is just speculation) she probably idolized Karin for killing Nirak, which would be why she'd even try to enter the non-mirrorverse in the first place.
 
Jonen C said:
The rule of mirror universe counterparts is they have to be able to be confused with the non-mirror universe counterpart with a little bit of disguise (usually a change in wardrobe, some light acting, and for the gentlemen a bit of a shave or fake facial hair)
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True, yes, but it's also essential they have some visual characteristic that differs from the original so the audience is never confused as to which is which. One which, somehow no-one will notice or comment on. Like always parting their hair on the other side, or having a different dress sense, or the way their eyes sometimes glow red.
 
deadcrystal said:
True, yes, but it's also essential they have some visual characteristic that differs from the original so the audience is never confused as to which is which. One which, somehow no-one will notice or comment on. Like always parting their hair on the other side, or having a different dress sense, or the way their eyes sometimes glow red.
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In the case of mirror universe Tabitha, I'm picturing an ahoge.
 
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