Outside Context Solution (Mass Effect/Pacific Rim)

I've got no arguments with that. (I'm enjoying the story so far.) I'm just pointing it out because without a proper explanation the Salarian crew of the Silent Step let the movie happen as per canon (with one exception) because .. ?

It is a plot hole that is avoidable and can be handled in a few throw-away lines in a later chapter. ("We had plans to extract the relevant engineers in a worst case scenario" or the like.)
You're thinking that the galaxy needs the humans alive for some reason or another. They don't. What the galaxy needed was an idea on how to effectively fight back. They got that idea. An argument could be made that they need the specifics of Drift technology to make it work, but chances are the Salarian team already has that; they are, after all, infiltration experts. Sure, it'll take time to adapt the tech to other species, and keeping humanity alive could potentially speed up the process, but they don't really need humanity to survive this.

So no, fact is that the Salarian crew really has no reason to interfere with the planet's affairs, and it's therefore not a plothole.
Here's a concept that just occurred to me when considering how Salarians do things: Salarians raised from birth to be drift compatible with each other and trained to be Jaeger pilots.
Salarians mature and age very quickly, so the turnaround time wouldn't be too bad. Thoughts?
Would that level of manipulation be considered ethical even by Salarian standards? We're talking about the unashamed shaping of minds here.
 
You're thinking that the galaxy needs the humans alive for some reason or another. They don't. What the galaxy needed was an idea on how to effectively fight back. They got that idea. An argument could be made that they need the specifics of Drift technology to make it work, but chances are the Salarian team already has that; they are, after all, infiltration experts. Sure, it'll take time to adapt the tech to other species, and keeping humanity alive could potentially speed up the process, but they don't really need humanity to survive this.

So no, fact is that the Salarian crew really has no reason to interfere with the planet's affairs, and it's therefore not a plothole.
This concept came up in the thread that spawned the Bastion Tyrant snip. I believe the relevant quote was presented by a Turian, and was something like "I would rather have ten weapons and ten soldiers trained to use it and maintain it than a thousand weapons with untrained soldiers." What they need from Earth is not the technology, but the training of pilots, ground crew, engineers, and possibly even researchers. That experience is priceless.

As for the STG group watching Earth, I choose to believe that the Salarians simply could not spare the resources to meddle more than they did. Not until the humans could prove that they were able to give something back. It's harsh, but I think fitting of the mindset of the group that came up with the genophage when placed under threat of extinction.
 
That's pretty much how Salarians raise children anyway.
Oh, okay then. How do humans search for drift compatible partners anyway?
This concept came up in the thread that spawned the Bastion Tyrant snip. I believe the relevant quote was presented by a Turian, and was something like "I would rather have ten weapons and ten soldiers trained to use it and maintain it than a thousand weapons with untrained soldiers." What they need from Earth is not the technology, but the training of pilots, ground crew, engineers, and possibly even researchers. That experience is priceless.
We have different ideas on the definition of 'necessity' then. I think that if the aliens can obtain experience on their own, then they don't need outside counsel. And they certainly can, the humans did. Sure, it would be great to have some help, but it's not a necessity.
 
Oh, okay then. How do humans search for drift compatible partners anyway?

If we go solely by the movie: With kung fu tournaments. :D
It's a way of seeing if two people can establish a "wordless dialogue" from what I could tell.

Otherwise it seems that you'd want to go for complimentary personalities and similar backgrounds.
 
We have different ideas on the definition of 'necessity' then. I think that if the aliens can obtain experience on their own, then they don't need outside counsel. And they certainly can, the humans did. Sure, it would be great to have some help, but it's not a necessity.
So what rationale makes sense for the Salarians to pass up the opportunity of everything they stand to gain with a few shots from their ship's main gun during one engagement? (Assuming they can either perform kinetic bombardment or enter the atmosphere and engage "directly.")

Experienced engineers, designers, Drift technicians, pilots (potentially,) the entire "wealth of knowledge" about Jaeger combat and tactics the Humans have accumulated, and so on.

That is the plot hole. They are passing up an opportunity to act in their own best interests .. why?

If there is a reason, I trust that @MadGreenSon is going to share it with us later.. but there needs to be a reason. (Note I'm not asking for a spoiler on this.)

For example, here's a potential reason - they didn't want to "uplift" another warlike race that could turn on the Council. The answer is that Humans have had their global economy destroyed by the Kaiju. They do not have FTL transit nor do they have the resources within their own system. Humans have a hard time just getting into orbit at this point in Pacific Rim! Thus they are trapped on one planet and can be .. "dealt with" should they turn on the Council.


tl;dr - If your characters are acting against their own best interests you need a good reason as a writer.
 
Human Jaeger - Claymore
Salarian Jaeger - Rapier
Turian Jaeger - Katana
Asari Jaeger - Morningstar
Krogan Jaeger - Battleaxe
Elcor Jaeger - Shield
Hanar Jaeger - Harpoon
Batarian Jaeger - Whip

Humans are a lot more adaptable than most species, Jaeger-wise. They had everything from the Russian Tank (who survived as a MARK I all the friggin way to the Double Event) to the Speedster (Striker. though, granted, as a MK-V he had strength too, but mainly speed), and the Swiss Army Robot (Gipsy. No matter what it goes against it WILL have a weapon to say fuck you with.). I think this isn't just because they were the first species with Jaegers, but more because unlike the rest of the Citadel and etc species, their bodytype is more adaptable and varied.
You've got balloon-Volus, elephantine Elcor, jellyfish Hanar, Lizard-Bird Turians, and so on. A lot of the species are visibly adapted for animal-to-animal combat, something that doesn't exactly scale up very well with giant robots. Physically they have a lot less variation than humans. I've never seen or heard of obese Turians, muscle-bound Asari, or anything less than the perfection of physical strength Krogan. Humans on the other hand have brutes that can be similar to Krogan, tactical hit-and-runners like Turians (I don't believe their pre-tech ancestors hunted with prolonged fighting in mind), and so on.

Salarians would probably have a focus on using speed and gadgets. Gipsy Danger style maybe. Get in there, hit it with some kind of Tesla-Spike that periodically discharges enough voltage to completely fuck up its nervous system, and then slice and dice for the kill. Most likely they'll be running support Jaegers, if at all.

Turian Jaegers I expect to actually be smaller than standard. The neural load for the massive Jaegers was only doable with two heavily
synchronous minds acting in unison. If their Jaegers were smaller (though not by too much, mind you,) the load required would be a tad smaller and make it theoretically easier to find Drift partners (ironically I think the Turians are going to be the easiest to find partners for since every single one of them goes through service. Just find two old buddies who went through the same tours and lived vaguely similar lives post-service (if they left) and you're probably set). With smaller Jaegers, they could field more and work as a cohesive unit to swarm the Kaiju, which would be an interesting and most definitely Turian tactic. And then we give them all mortars like Coyote Tango! :p

Asari... outside of heavy biotic artillery I expect their Jaegers to be effective purely through the amount of money thrown into their construction. The Asari aren't a very physical-combat inclined race, like the Humans (yes I saw that HFY tumblr pic a few pages back but we're tactics inclined, like Turians), and use guns and biotics to get by whenever there's trouble they cant talk their way out of. The former is uneffective at Kaiju size, and the latter is probably more expensive and dangerous than its worth using it.
However, that being said, they do have a very long lifespan and can make up for their seeming physical weakness with a heavily power-up Jaeger and centuries of hand-to-hand combat training. They probably trump half the other species due to sheer skill, when they put their minds to it. Similarly, their extremely long lives would make finding a partner awkward, if not outright difficult, and probably very prone to chasing rabbits.

And I got bored about here and will probably finish my extensive overthinking of species to giant robot comparisons/thoughts later.
Krogan Jaeger - Battleaxe
Elcor Jaeger - Shield
Hanar Jaeger - Harpoon
Batarian Jaeger - Whip
(And yes I forgot to read the rest of the post I got the quote from so I probably completely missed the point but GOOD MORNINGGGG)
 
So what rationale makes sense for the Salarians to pass up the opportunity of everything they stand to gain with a few shots from their ship's main gun during one engagement? (Assuming they can either perform kinetic bombardment or enter the atmosphere and engage "directly.")

They were at the Earth-Moon L2 point when the engagement started, the entire fight lasted less than ten minutes, do you expect they ould have gotten to Hong Kong and shot the monsters in that amount of time?

Experienced engineers, designers, Drift technicians, pilots (potentially,) the entire "wealth of knowledge" about Jaeger combat and tactics the Humans have accumulated, and so on.

That is the plot hole. They are passing up an opportunity to act in their own best interests .. why?

The lack of kidnapping is a plot hole? What are you saying here, exactly?


If there is a reason, I trust that @MadGreenSon is going to share it with us later.. but there needs to be a reason. (Note I'm not asking for a spoiler on this.)

For example, here's a potential reason - they didn't want to "uplift" another warlike race that could turn on the Council. The answer is that Humans have had their global economy destroyed by the Kaiju. They do not have FTL transit nor do they have the resources within their own system. Humans have a hard time just getting into orbit at this point in Pacific Rim! Thus they are trapped on one planet and can be .. "dealt with" should they turn on the Council.


tl;dr - If your characters are acting against their own best interests you need a good reason as a writer.

Um... What do you even mean here? The Asari "uplift" new races all the time, it's just no one is going to trust the Salarians to do it again and if they'd started too there would have been a shitstorm.

The reasons the Krogan turned on the Council are related to them being Krogan, fast-breeding beyond all reason, belligerent and stubborn beyond all reason and generally beyond all reason until they've had the ever loving fuck slapped out of them and even then only a few actually learned anything from it.

Compared to the Krogan, Uplifting humanity is a risk free proposition. New culture, new hope for the fight against the Outsiders and new markets opening up as humans grow and expand.

Where is my plot hole...Seriously?
 
If there is a reason, I trust that @MadGreenSon is going to share it with us later.. but there needs to be a reason. (Note I'm not asking for a spoiler on this.)
No, he doesn't need to share anything with us, and I don't think it's right of you to pressure him into doing so.

You can make up your own reason as to why the Salarians acted as they did. @bobnik and I arrived at different conclussions, and both are valid reasonings, and both allow us to continue to enjoy this story. You are free to take either of our explanations to maintain your suspension of disbelief, or you can make one of your own. It's not hard.

But to adress your points, though:
So what rationale makes sense for the Salarians to pass up the opportunity of everything they stand to gain with a few shots from their ship's main gun during one engagement? (Assuming they can either perform kinetic bombardment or enter the atmosphere and engage "directly.")

Experienced engineers, designers, Drift technicians, pilots (potentially,) the entire "wealth of knowledge" about Jaeger combat and tactics the Humans have accumulated, and so on.
It's not their call. There's this thing called politics, in this case galactic politics, which are usually awfully complicated and are left to the people in charge. And the people in charge of deciding whether to save the planet or not aren't the STG team, it would instead be the Council. Simple as that.
 
There are inherent risk with any uplifting. Most are cultural ones and the risk falls squarely on the uplifted race. In this case they are limited since humanity got a recent negative experience with the Kaiju and they learned to adapt their culture and economy to far more damaging situations that the Citadel species will induce, and this time the Asari, Turian and Salarian are going to be far more careful managing those changes as well.
 
There are inherent risk with any uplifting. Most are cultural ones and the risk falls squarely on the uplifted race. In this case they are limited since humanity got a recent negative experience with the Kaiju and they learned to adapt their culture and economy to far more damaging situations that the Citadel species will induce, and this time the Asari, Turian and Salarian are going to be far more careful managing those changes as well.

They're also going to be approaching the world at large with disaster relief as the first objective and approaching the PPDC (which after the events of the movie is a private organization) separately.

Human presence in space is gonna be a little... lopsided for awhile.
 
The lack of kidnapping is a plot hole? What are you saying here, exactly?
Obviously I should have been clearer.

They could have gotten all those things from the Humans in exchange for their help. See my earlier post for everything the Salarians (as a culture) had to gain by being the first to help the Humans - especially if they were seen, publicly, helping defend the planet when the situation was at its most dire.


That is the plot hole. They bypassed an opportunity to help themselves greatly. Why?

There are plenty of answers floating around outside the story but I feel you could use an answer inside the narrative.


Again, as I have said previously, if I'm the only one choking on this plot point / plot hole.. then I'm an outlier. Ignore my posts and move along with your day. If other people feel the same way there will be evidence in the thread.


You get to decide which of those is true based on your own judgement. I'm just trying to provide constructive criticism about a small flaw in an otherwise outstanding work.
 
Obviously I should have been clearer.

They could have gotten all those things from the Humans in exchange for their help. See my earlier post for everything the Salarians (as a culture) had to gain by being the first to help the Humans - especially if they were seen, publicly, helping defend the planet when the situation was at its most dire.


That is the plot hole. They bypassed an opportunity to help themselves greatly. Why?

There are plenty of answers floating around outside the story but I feel you could use an answer inside the narrative.


Again, as I have said previously, if I'm the only one choking on this plot point / plot hole.. then I'm an outlier. Ignore my posts and move along with your day. If other people feel the same way there will be evidence in the thread.


You get to decide which of those is true based on your own judgement. I'm just trying to provide constructive criticism about a small flaw in an otherwise outstanding work.

Y'know what? Just because I like your avatar and for no better reason, I'm going to have Herc Hansen ask Lorn Solus pretty much exactly why they didn't help.

I'll even tell you the answer now if you want... After I go play some ME2 for a bit.
 
"We couldn't help. We were a recon team, and even if we were anti-Outsider equipped, YOUR SPECIES IS THE FIRST TO ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING ABOUT THESE FUCKERS!!!"
"Still-"
"Nothing we've tried works, damnit, we did the best we could with the resources available to us and we saved the Russians. Believe me, we wanted to do more but we couldn't."
 
:o Uh, no. I don't need an answer now. Like I said before, I trust you as a writer.

Besides, won't it be more fun when it shows up in the story? :)
You have a funny way of showing it, by making statements like "you have to address this or your story makes no sense". Because nobody but you seems to have a problem with this.

The galactic community has systematically failed to beat the Kaiju save through usage of tremendously overwhelming bombardment with their best weapons. This is a stealth ship, not a dreadnought.They couldn't have done anything meaningful except information exchange, and the humans already knew as much about the Kaiju as the aliens. More, actually, thanks to Newt.

There is no plot hole.
 
I was watching the final battle again, and Stacker's final words to Mako got me wondering.

"I'll always be there for you! You can always find me in the drift!"

Was he just talking about Mako and Raleigh's shared memories of him, or something else? Something more?

A known side-effect of piloting Jaegers is 'Ghost-Drifting', where pilots maintain a muted mental connection with each other when not hooked up to the Pons, and some Jaegers have been seen twitching in response to the pilots moving in their sleep.

Does being hooked up mentally to another human being kick-start some sort of mild psychic ability in pilots? Does The Drift tap into or brush against a purely mental plane of existence, where echoes of long-lost pilots can be felt by their still-living brethren?

Hmm...

Oh, okay then. How do humans search for drift compatible partners anyway?

If we go solely by the movie: With kung fu tournaments. :D

Funnily enough, when someone asked if western fencing could be used to test drift compatibility along with other martial arts, Travis Beacham replied;

"Basically anything that requires a high level of mutual attention and coordination can be used to evaluate it.

In the early days, enlistment teams would go around to high schools with questionnaires and an X-Box."
 
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