Outside Context Solution (Mass Effect/Pacific Rim)
- Thread starter MadGreenSon
- Start date
Kalaong
Extinction is approaching. FIGHT IT.
Salarian Hermann, Quarian Newt.
Since they built it around the entire sea, it's not so much a wall as a "kill box".
Sorta? Not exactly.
Quarians are the race that has experience building ships of the right size and configuration to make a spaceborne Shatterdome
If you want to pigeonhole, it's probably the other way around, but I could see either race playing either role.
Plus, those guys were mainly K-Science. I get to introduce the Jaeger Engineers!
WhoAmEye
Bunker-Dwelling Cryptid
- Location
- Vault Birb
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I thought it would have been the other way around. Super-bioscientist tattoo-covered Salarian Newt and super-mathlete Quarian just standing at their human counterparts and having the most awkward staring contest in the history of the Reapers
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
The Great Wall of Dakka is right up my alley
bobnik
Memetic Warfare Specialist.
Actually, wouldn't the STG use that as the stick if the pollies are obstructionist with lending aid to the Citadel? The carrot, of course, is "we can get you off the planet."
My betatron is yours, if you wish it.I'm stealing that outright, you get no credit and if you start any shit about it... things! awful things!
Mgunh1
Not an AI, honest!
- Location
- Northern Luna Base, Module 5, Sublevel 15
I just finished reading the comments from where you linked onwards. You honestly tried to strike up an in-depth logical discussion in a Peptuck story? You poor, deluded fool. He writes H:FY stories riddled with more background plot holes than the original series of Star Trek.
You don't even try with him and the people who read his work. It's never pretty.
I'll have to go into more detail about it, but the adaptations and customization made to a Jaeger over time have less to do with the physical bodies of the pilots and more to do with how the pilots use the Jaeger.
Kind of how if you train your body in one martial art or another, it get more optimized toward using that martial art.
Of course, the feedback from the system is sill a thing, so Hanar or Elcor using a humanoid Jaeger would be difficult at best.
Exactly! Kinda how you can tell Mako was gunning to be a pilot for Gipsy Danger, swordmaking was in her family and she added a sword to it.
Razor One
When Science Goes Too Far...
It also shows up in Gipsy Danger's movements. The Jaeger moves differently from when the Beckett Brothers were piloting her compared with when it was Raleigh/Mako piloting her. Some of that is likely engineering and upgrades, but part of that is also probably Mako's fighting style coupled with a more experienced Raleigh.
Given that Mako is said to have studied Raleigh's fighting style, not the combined fighting style of both Beckett brothers, it might be that what you're seeing is more of Raleigh's fighting style than Mako's.
That said, I do agree that over time the Jaegers would be "customized" around "what works" from a practical standpoint. Either adjusting the Jaeger to suit the pilots or having to work with whatever spare parts were available at the time. If Gypsy Danger loses an arm and there's no replacement plasma caster lying around, that would change the pilots' options.
Alternatively, once they learn the "nuclear hug attack" works with Gypsy Danger, would her pilots start working more grappling attacks into their style?
On a personal note, I'm wondering why the Salarians just sat back and watched for the entire Hong Kong engagement sequence. Given that the Jaegers appear to be a "new technology" that can fight off the invasions with a very primitive tech base, wouldn't the Salarians want to try and help the Jaegers more directly? A single kinetic shot at Otachi when Crimson Typhoon or Cherno Alpha were in trouble could have changed quite a bit, for example.
.. and it would make the humans much more likely to trust these strange aliens. Thus the Salarians would have an easier time getting experienced, Human engineers to head off to Citadel space and start a new Jaeger program for the Salaria - er, *cough* for the good of all sentients!
First of all, they were running silent behind the moon and things actually did develop at a fast pace on the ground. The ship itself was not designed for planetary bombardment and they were a crew of covert operatives and thus not inclined to just jump in.
Finally, one of the operators did do something to help, it just wasn't apparent until later.
Just to be clear though, there is no way in hell that the Council is letting the Salarian Union take the lead this time. The Asari haven't forgotten what happened the last time that the Salarians took the lead with a less advanced culture and the Turians are following their lead on this one.
Oh, that I get. But the crew of the ship wouldn't know about that.
.. okay, they're intel operatives, they might have ideas ..
Anyway, if they show up in Citadel space with a batch of engineers the Salarians have been buttering up the whole time, run the scenario.
The Salarians would have had an entire trip to figure out the Jaeger tech and trying to figure out how to make the designs work with Citadel technology and how to improve the designs with Mass Effect options and how to get the Salarian economic base building Salarian Jaegers as fast as possible and how to get the Volus on board. ("Hey, Volus! We've found a new race that wants to cash in on that bounty you guys put on successfully invading portals. Oh, and they've got some sweet new tech - here's a download!")
Getting the Humans separated from the Salarians so the Salarians aren't either "on point" or "senior partners in the arrangement" would take a lot of work on the Asari's part. They'd also have to be subtle. I cannot imagine the reaction of Humans in general to the Asari or Turians trying to say bad things about the Salarians after the recon team helped save our homeworld.
So did the Salarians completely avoid the option? Did they not have a chance at all? (Even during the final engagement?) Did they have plans to "extract" the surviving Jaeger engineers (willingly or otherwise) if the final push by the Jaegers failed?
Should be interesting to hear more about the recon team's debriefing just to hear about those decisions / options / plans.
bobnik
Memetic Warfare Specialist.
A few possible reasons:
-The STG probably have an institutional taboo against becoming directly involved in such an obvious way. The bugs could be overlooked, but ortillery fire is not subtle. I doubt they would consider it, really.
- Given that they had permission to open inactive relays, a desperation move, I can see the Council going "But you best adhere to all the other rules really closely, ok?" That would include not messing about with uncontacted civs.
-I realise the STG would have been fully aware they were on a do or die mission, and thus would have been ready to kick quite a lot of rules to the curb in order to complete the mission. Hell they probably had orders from the Dalatrasses to do exactly that. But to leave the humans to do their own work is the ultimate test of their ideas and tech.
-In the short term, unexplained ortillery would have panicked more than it calmed.
- The Silent Step was hanging out at the Earth-Moon L2 point, and may not have been able to maneuver, acquire and launch in the time frame required. Especially since as MadGreenSon said, they are not specialised for ground bombardment.
-They may not have wanted to reveal themselves to the kaiju.
But mostly, it's because this is the story the author wants to write.
-The STG probably have an institutional taboo against becoming directly involved in such an obvious way. The bugs could be overlooked, but ortillery fire is not subtle. I doubt they would consider it, really.
- Given that they had permission to open inactive relays, a desperation move, I can see the Council going "But you best adhere to all the other rules really closely, ok?" That would include not messing about with uncontacted civs.
-I realise the STG would have been fully aware they were on a do or die mission, and thus would have been ready to kick quite a lot of rules to the curb in order to complete the mission. Hell they probably had orders from the Dalatrasses to do exactly that. But to leave the humans to do their own work is the ultimate test of their ideas and tech.
-In the short term, unexplained ortillery would have panicked more than it calmed.
- The Silent Step was hanging out at the Earth-Moon L2 point, and may not have been able to maneuver, acquire and launch in the time frame required. Especially since as MadGreenSon said, they are not specialised for ground bombardment.
-They may not have wanted to reveal themselves to the kaiju.
But mostly, it's because this is the story the author wants to write.
I've got no arguments with that. (I'm enjoying the story so far.) I'm just pointing it out because without a proper explanation the Salarian crew of the Silent Step let the movie happen as per canon (with one exception) because .. ?But mostly, it's because this is the story the author wants to write.
It is a plot hole that is avoidable and can be handled in a few throw-away lines in a later chapter. ("We had plans to extract the relevant engineers in a worst case scenario" or the like.)
If it is a serious plot hole the entire discussion will pull in other forumites, constructive criticism will be had, and MadGreenSon's writing can improve. If I'm nit-picking something that no one else care about.. there will be no discussion and I'm just being crazy. Given that I'm not particularly hung up on not looking crazy around the forums.. why not aim for something that can help an author whose work I enjoy?
Here's a concept that just occurred to me when considering how Salarians do things: Salarians raised from birth to be drift compatible with each other and trained to be Jaeger pilots.
Salarians mature and age very quickly, so the turnaround time wouldn't be too bad. Thoughts?
Salarians mature and age very quickly, so the turnaround time wouldn't be too bad. Thoughts?
Richardson
CAN YOU HEAR THE PEOPLE SING?
- Location
- Yes
It'll still be probably too late to save Citadel space. The battle is at most going to be decided in the next ten years when the Outsiders ramp the hell out of their Breach program to stop the citadel from exploiting it's new advantage.
- Location
- In the depts of despair.
Will Herc be amuzed that his counterpart is a tough-as-nails Volus who lost everything as well?
Just a few thoughts here -
- You need to decide that siblings / long-term friends have better odds of being Drift-compatible. The source material never explicitly says that but it does have a lot of evidence in the movie.
- You need to decide if the Salarians are even Drift-compatible in the first place. For all we (your readers) know it is a Human-only thing.
- You need to decide how each species handle the strain of Drifting. It might be that Salarians don't need a partner to withstand the "mental strain." Asari might require several.
Personally, I'm curious to see what happens when two different species Drift. Say a Turian and an Asari.
Razor One
When Science Goes Too Far...
Depends on the nature of the Drift I think.
Rewatching parts of the film, there's a few lines that illustrate the nature of the drift:
- Jaegers are only as good as their pilots
- The Beckett Brothers had a 'unique skill'; they were drift compatible
I'm scrapping things together a bit, but from what I can surmise, drift compatibility is not an automatic thing just because you were born with a twin brother, have siblings, are married, or have resonating experiences. It's rare enough that Jaeger pilots can become rockstars in their own right and that they're not easily replaced once their lost. I figure the Salarian program would not be very successful. It might be able to produce a couple of pairs, but as a way of mass producing Jaeger pilots, it'll be a wash.
Drift compatibility doesn't seem to be entirely predicated on your relationship or shared experiences with another person. It helps, but it isn't the be all and end all. Personality, trust, the way people go together, that's what I think the key is. It's more likely to be a psychological factor that is very difficult to pinpoint and may even vary between species. Oh, and Drell may well be disqualified entirely given how they get lost in their own memories frequently. Definitely not Rabbit Proof.
So, my speculah as follows:
For every thousand candidates raised in the fashion the Salarians employ, only two make the final cut.
This has either made them very, very bitter, or very, very arrogant. Possibly both.
They disdain naturally drift compatible individuals as a result.
The key to getting them to pull the pole out of their cloaca is to fight them to a draw, after which they lighten up. Preferably in a double-drift Kowloon fight.
Due to their high-speed thinking, the drift is a bit more stressful on them, requiring more downtime as a result.
They favour lighter, faster and more agile Jaegers compared to humans. If Humans average around Gipsy, bottom out at Cherno, and top out at Striker, Salarians bottom out at Striker comparatively. They are the rapier to the humans claymore.
Hmmm. Running with that analogy for a second...
Human Jaeger - Claymore
Salarian Jaeger - Rapier
Turian Jaeger - Katana
Asari Jaeger - Morningstar
Krogan Jaeger - Battleaxe
Elcor Jaeger - Shield
Hanar Jaeger - Harpoon
Batarian Jaeger - Whip
Another idea, solo pilot for Jaeger. Humans used drift system only because it was to intense for one pilot to handle, but Citadel with better computer tech and V.I. could make Jaeger to require one pilot. But drift system is a big plot/world building part of Pasific rim so I doubt it.
The computers the Jaeger program used were up to the task. The problem was what they needed the pilot to do (actually run the system) was more than the nervous system could handle alone. Better computers or VI isn't going to cut it.
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
One word: Geth.