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No Gods, No Masters (WH30k)

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Shard said:
Yes, but dont we want to have a fleet that large anyway?
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Again, cost. If we lose a few corvettes to piracy it's nothing, if we lose a few dreadnoughts it significantly impacts our action economy and navy. Also If we use corvettes we can keep a patrol of our systems up while the main fleet engages any danger that comes our way. Letting piracy run rampant every few years because we had to pull our dreadnoughts away from patrol routes doesn't sound particularly pleasing to me.

10ebbor10 said:
Also, where are you getting the 10 actions number from? I can't find anything to support that.
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1 ship to patrol each of our systems (Including Diaspora and Humility), though I'd prefer three. That's 10 actions for 10 dreadnoughts and two actions for 10 corvettes (Or 30 and 6 for an optimal garrison).
 
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Chlof said:
Again, cost. If we lose a few corvettes to piracy it's nothing, if we lose a few dreadnoughts it significantly impacts our action economy and navy. Also If we use corvettes we can keep a patrol of our systems up while the main fleet engages any danger that comes our way. Letting piracy run rampant every few years because we had to pull our dreadnoughts away from patrol routes doesn't sound particularly pleasing to me.
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Thing is, we're not going to be losing any dreadnoughts to piracy. Against a corvette, a pirate has a decent chance of winning. Against a dreadnought, not really.

In addition, you're incorrectly interpreting patrol route-main battle dynamic. With dreads, we have the ability of drawing in our piracy patrols in favor of greater combat strength. With corvettes, that option is simply not there.

Dreadnoughts offer better flexibility and better performance at a slightly greater upfront cost. In the long term, they're clearly superior, and we've already done most of the hard work in building up a dreadnought fleet.

Chlof said:
1 ship to patrol each of our systems (Including Diaspora and Humility), though I'd prefer three. That's 10 actions for 10 dreadnoughts and two actions for 10 corvettes (Or 30 and 6 for an optimal garrison).
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Okay, so it's a figure you basically made up.

Pirates are attacking our trade with Autochtonia, so I could just as easily argue that we need just 1 ship to deal with them, to secure the trade routes that are actually vulnerable to pirates.
 
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veteranMortal said:
We need to do more than just slavishly make dreadnaughts, so the point remains; we need a solution now, not in the future. Corvettes are perfectly satisfactory for this.
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So we spend three actions making dreads and task them to the system which is explicitly suffering piracy. Bam problem solved in one turn and those ships aren't useless in the case of an actual serious enemy.
 
Chlof said:
Again, cost. If we lose a few corvettes to piracy it's nothing, if we lose a few dreadnoughts it significantly impacts our action economy and navy.
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If the pirates can only cost us a few corvettes they're not going to scratch a dreadnought's paint. An action point of corvettes is a quarter the power of a dreadnought. Corvettes are fine for any purpose that just requires a ship, but if the pirates start shooting back they're less economical than the dreadnoughts.
Chlof said:
Also If we use corvettes we can keep a patrol of our systems up while the main fleet engages any danger that comes our way. Letting piracy run rampant every few years because we had to pull our dreadnoughts away from patrol routes doesn't sound particularly pleasing to me.
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This makes sense, but please don't tie up 30% of the maintenance limit on babysitters that we'll only need 10% of the time. One or at most two packs of corvettes to keep problem areas under control while the parents are gone is fine.
 
10ebbor10 said:
Thing is, we're not going to be losing any dreadnoughts to piracy. Against a corvette, a pirate has a decent chance of winning. Against a dreadnought, not really.

In addition, you're incorrectly interpreting patrol route-main battle dynamic. With dreads, we have the ability of drawing in our piracy patrols in favor of greater combat strength. With corvettes, that option is simply not there.

Dreadnoughts offer better flexibility and better performance at a slightly greater upfront cost. In the long term, they're clearly superior, and we've already done most of the hard work in building up a dreadnought fleet.



Okay, so it's a figure you basically made up.

Pirates are attacking our trade with Autochtonia, so I could just as easily argue that we need just 1 ship to deal with them, to secure the trade routes that are actually vulnerable to pirates.
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We probably need more than one ship per trade route.

That's the advantage of the Corvette, for 1 AP, they can be in five places at once dealing with various nusinces, vs the dread that can be in one place at once. Kind of like with a real Navy.
 
Flectarn said:
We probably need more than one ship per trade route.
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We may, or we may not. We don't really know.

Flectarn said:
That's the advantage of the Corvette, for 1 AP, they can be in five places at once dealing with various nusinces, vs the dread that can be in one place at once. Kind of like with a real Navy.
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Problem is that the maintenance mechanics are completely inverted here. With a real navy, a battleship will consume more resources than 5 small vessels. Here, the opposite is the case.
 
Our dreadnoughts can also be in five places at once because we already have more than five of them. They're only more expensive if we're starting from no navy, but as it is covering fifteen places with dreadnoughts costs zero action points.
 
Torgamous said:
Our dreadnoughts can also be in five places at once because we already have more than five of them. They're only more expensive if we're starting from no navy, but as it is covering fifteen places with dreadnoughts costs zero action points.
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We've also got an incoming waagh that is gonna need dreads to intercept it though
 
Vindictus said:
We've also got an incoming waagh that is gonna need dreads to intercept it though
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That's only a valid argument if Aranfan scales our space borne threats directly with the size of our dreadnought fleet, for obvious reasons I don't think making plans about that kind of meta level reasoning is sensible.

Otherwise going all in dreads over everything else is more efficient overall. As the corvettes eat the same maintenance budget whilst providing no combat ability and any pirate threats that can have a chance of blowing up a corvette will do nothing to a dreadnought patrolling.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
That's only a valid argument if Aranfan scales our space borne threats directly with the size of our dreadnought fleet, for obvious reasons I don't think making plans about that kind of meta level reasoning is sensible.
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More, we can't have our existing fleet of dreadnoughts both intercept the incoming fleet and also hunt pirates at the same time.
 
So we need babysitters to keep things from exploding while the fleet is occupied. I'm cool with the five corvettes we've got in the vote now, but Chlof wants to eventually build 30 and that's just way too many.
 
Torgamous said:
So we need babysitters to keep things from exploding while the fleet is occupied. I'm cool with the five corvettes we've got in the vote now, but Chlof wants to eventually build 30 and that's just way too many.
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Yeah, unless pirates and other small raiders develop into a serious problem, I think at most ten Corvettes ought to be sufficient.
 
Is the One-Alone a human hive mind United by psykers?

Do they have range limits?
Can humans join and split/leave?

It might be useful to have One-Alone "modules" in our exploration fleets.

Maybe we could create our own part time and smaller hive minds for special coordination, such as a ship bridge crew, a kill team, a surgery team, firemen shift, construction crew etc.
 
Flectarn said:
Yeah, unless pirates and other small raiders develop into a serious problem, I think at most ten Corvettes ought to be sufficient.
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I'm still not seeing how corvettes do anything Dreads don't realistically. The only thing you can say is you can patrol 5 areas with one action of corvette construction but at the same time those corvs are hugely more vulnerable.
 
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