Having not read up to that point yet (I'm at 9.2), I can't comment on the events argued in that previous comment.
I will say this, however. I disagree with what you say above. As long as the comments are cogent, somewhat courteously worded, and not in some way an outright attack...comments are a good thing. They are critiques of a story that are ongoing, giving feedback to the author on the progression of the story...and more importantly, give an insight into how that story is viewed by his/her readers.
Now...should this be a case of the Author saying "OK, I've heard you...I disagree, and I'm gonna continue with this" and the commenter continuing to "beat a dead horse" so to speak, then that's another story. One that a Mod could conceivably be convinced to address. But, from what I've seen, we're nowhere near that point yet (unless I'm misreading the situation).
TL;DR is... "Constructive criticism is a good thing"
in the very least Taylor isn't mentally normal; She's at least a six on the crazy-o-meter, and non-crazies don't go on the meter, not even at 0, it only measures crazy rather than non-crazy. Her mind immediately jumped to 'she's a threat!' when dealing with literally her only friends. Don't get me wrong, you write crazy really well, but your taylors are pretty fucking crazy.
Yes, almost everybody in the entire world needs therapy(or so the therapists say, but we're onto them), but Taylor needs a lot of therapy. If she could handle talking to her therapist without freaking out about whether or not she's trying to manipulate her or if she's a threat.
That wasn't a complaint, by any stretch. A new take on an old character isn't necessarily a bad thing. I guess I was more "visualizing" the character for my own imagination than anything else...
Also, you're right. The spectrum does cover a wide range of behaviors and mindsets.
And in my mind's eye, she behaves considerably like the primary character in a recent TV drama, "The Good Doctor", who's a high-functioning autistic savant. If you're not familiar, it's an excellent show. I highly suggest it. Also, give at least an episode or two a watch, to give a comparison to Taylor's seeming troubles with social interaction/cues.
Thank you for the suggested television. For anybody interested, here's a link to the show's website.
Various interpretations on characters are interesting
Amy is playing a joke on Taylor.
I encourage you to skip my next response, if you want the story to remain unspoiled. There are some minor repercussions from Amy's little joke that I reference.
To be fair, imprisoning Lisa indefinitely without trial isn't a very good idea either. Unless, of course, Tagg wants every dirty little secret the PRT has publicized and the city flooded with Xenomorphs.
If Tagg caught just Lisa or Taylor, I'd have a straightforward time writing that person's retrieval. Danny could help Lisa get Taylor free, or make sure Taylor didn't flip out while rescuing Lisa.
If Tagg caught Danny and Lisa, then the following chapters would likely involve everything at the PRT being on fire, squiggles, jellies, and assorted other small units everywhere, and Taylor's drone units stalking the halls (possibly with active camouflage).
The desire to stop posters from browbeating each other is a positive, however, I'm still enjoying the conversation about my story. If there were several topics of conversation, I'd likely have dropped them already, but I'm not having an issue discussing these details on my story while responding to other intermittent comments
That said, if you think riaantheunissen was being overly rude or combative (or I am), then do call us out on our specific poor behavior.
I generally consider the best way to improve my writing to be through discussion. @riaantheunissen and I aren't necessarily going to reach an agreement, but I see two benefits on this discussion for me. The first is a question of how the degree of realism affects the story. Of course, parahumans are not realistic unto itself, but the question of 'what counts as a plausible response to a fictional setting' is the keystone to maintaining suspension of disbelief. Secondly, the details of this conversation are helpful to me in how the social interactions and drives of the characters in this story are perceived.
For example, which I'll be bringing up with @riaantheunissen, he brought up the PRT pressuring Brandish. I was surprised at that, and will be responding to that in some detail, but it does suggest that how I portray events in background is not giving adequate clarity as to why Brandish would react to that rather poorly.
Imprison Amy without trial indefinitely? Perish the thought. Consider. As soon as she's captured Tagg goes to Carol with every possible charge laid out nice and neat... Talk about the charges, the bad publicity, the ruined future and everything that can go wrong for Amy. And then offer Carol the opportunity to make it go away by signing some forms in her capacity as Amy's legal guardian.
Now, I can see a number of things that can go very wrong. The question is, given what is shown about him, how likely is it Tagg would something like this or something similar enough.
Brandish would dare Tagg to go through with it, because she would know he was bluffing.
Firstly, Brandish could readily make the argument that Amy is a minor and not responsible for actions forced upon her under duress, either implicit or explicit pressure. Additionally, as a minor, Amy cut a deal with Recluse while in fear of her own safety. Brandish would simply acknowledge that New Wave failed to provide an adequately safe environment for Amy (which is why Glory Girl is in the Wards now, along with Flashbang and Brandish in the Protectorate) and that Tagg is attacking a frightened child who has spent her entire parahuman career healing people.
Secondly, the PRT and Protectorate have actively been shown in story to no longer be working together on multiple instances. Faultline's Crew was attacked without informing the Protectorate. Flashbang, Flechette, and Shadow Stalker showed up to Recluse's camp, which isn't an officially recognized one. The PRT shot down FEMA's ability to accept Recluse's offer for clean water in exchange for food. The Protectorate (as opposed to a several squads of PRT troopers) helped escort the people of Recluse's camp to the dockworkers camp. Several squads of PRT troopers, and Shadow Stalker, showed up to pick a fight with the E88 in the location of Recluse's former camp. All of those examples were intended to show, without explicitly showing up in Taylor's awareness, that the PRT and Protectorate of Brockton Bay are operating as fair less of a cohesive unit than their propaganda suggests. Tagg already has either given up on forcing the Protectorate to jump to his tune or simply never cared about what they do.
Anyway, before I continue on in my responses, I want to go off on a meta-tangent.
I have not asked you to drop this topic, because I find it valuable. I am finding out weak areas in my own writing by dint of trying to defend it. In a lot of ways, the issues you've raised are completely valid (though I disagree to what degree and perhaps even why they're valid). While I'm increasingly sure that correcting some or all of those issues are not likely to happen, I've already decided to make some edits to an upcoming chapter to try and retcon a little bit of it. That's not going to address your concerns fully, because that would require a rewrite for me to be satisfied and that would just kill the story, but that isn't meant to suggest that your concerns are invalid.
Also, if you ever feel like writing a story, let me know. I'm interested in seeing it.
Quite a bit actually, if it is supposed to be taken seriously enough to force the PRT to act due to public pressure. Because I'm rather certain that if the news groups publish the claims as soon as the accusation is made things like the fight between the PRT and the Empire 88 capes after Taylor had to abandon her camp as well as recordings of the somewhat peaceful meeting between Recluse and the Wards and Flashbang will be trumpeted by the PRT. (Because I can't see that it would not have been recorded for later analyst.) And if there were any other clashes between the PRT / Protectorate / Wards and Empire 88, which there should be some, then difficulty to manipulate the media would just increase.
If the PRT tries to use a video of Flashbang to counter bad PR from trying to apply legal pressure to Flashbang's kid...
I'm not sure where to start on that being a bad idea.
Even all of the reasons Flashbang would be able to wreck that aside, that also shows that the Protectorate gets along just fine with Recluse. I can't see how that does anything other than make the PRT look unreasonable.
How much of a community leader "looking out for the little people" would Danny look to be if the amount of money available as well as the mercenaries and capes became known? Or would he appear to be a liar and user of "the little people"? This assumes he is captured as Xanathos, that Tagg outs him as Xanathos or that whoever wants to get the story written lets the media know that Xanathos, the guy captured by the PRT, is Danny Hebert. If however Tagg just has him openly picked up by PRT troopers without giving a reason then the story will be bad for the PRT.
If Tagg publicly 'unmasks' Danny as Xanatos, without a trial and with absolutely zero proof of Danny having powers, that will go poorly for them. There are [some number] of dockworkers who will swear up and down that Danny has done everything he could to keep his camp operating within the law.
In your scenario, is the PRT actually advocating that Danny should have used illegally acquired funds to take care of one of their camps that Danny happens to be running? It's an official camp after all. Those funds were, in part, being used to feed Recluse's camp, sure, but those funds were acquired illegally. If the PRT says that Danny is secretly rich from taking down Coil, who was already demonstrated as having moles in the PRT, then the PRT is punishing the person who rescued the mayor's niece, flat out shut down a gang in the city, and exposed spies in the PRT, then the PRT has to make the argument that they were incapable of supporting one of the official camps and that Danny should have been using his illegally acquired funds (which the PRT won't be able to show he was using to live an easy life) to support the people the PRT was failing to support.
Tagg always seemed very certain of himself to me. Certain that he would find the right threat or pressure, certain that he would find a way to win. He happened to be wrong about that in the original story. I could see the same in this case.
That's totally true, but Tagg isn't operating in a vacuum and the rest of the PRT will not like the shitshow of publicly 'unmasking' somebody that Tagg cannot prove is a cape, pressuring a healer, and aggressively pursuing a group of capes that he simply won't be able to prove have done any dramatic crimes.
Part of my reasoning for Tagg's actions in this story is that he's completely bought into his own self-rightousness, but even so, I just struggle to see Tagg as able to fake sanity while being so divorced from reality as to believe the extremes of the pressure tactics you're suggesting could be viable. Tagg could possibly screw over everybody but Taylor, Danny, and Amy, out of the Hebert SCONE, but I don't think even Tagg could fail to see the consequences of his actions.
I don't think I've ever talked about the PRT disappearing anybody? Arresting people and Danny not getting to dictate what happens, yes. Consider, if a clean (or close enough) capture of the entire SCONE is made, what happens. Aisha or Brian or both escape. (Unless of course they're offered a deal and accept, but let's not consider that.) And then they try to start a PR or media battle, if they're loyal enough to SCONE. Against a PRT that has more experience, more resources and proof that they were willing to try and work with Recluse and that they went against the Empire. And then the PRT sends Canary to the Birdcage. (Hopefully not Purity and Bitch.) And offers Danny a deal that he really doesn't like. And if he doesn't want take it? Well, they mention that like Canary there is a possibility that he might have Brute abilities, and there is a possibility that he might be a social Thinker specializing in manipulation... And then he takes the deal the PRT offered, the one that makes certain SCONE has no chance of coming together again and he won't be able to spend time with and influence the former members.
Honestly, after learning what happened to Canary Danny should stand against any plan that leads to the possibility of capture and a trial, because Canary's demonstrated a lack of fairness that should scare him.
If Danny refuses to cave to a deal, then Tagg's only options are to disappear him (Birdcage or otherwise) or take him to trial.
Tagg simply does not have the ability to stop his own actions from being made public even if he takes all of the Hebert SCONE in custody. Danny will know this, and Danny might cave on Canary, Purity, and the Undersiders, but he wouldn't on Taylor.
Tagg can threaten the Birdcage (or whatever) for Taylor, but it would be a bluff and Danny would know that. Tagg can't prove crimes even halfway to what Canary did, and it would require a judge to publicly say "I'll send somebody to the Birdcage on zero evidence of violent crimes, and simply at the request of the PRT."
So long as a situation that could lead to the successful capture of the inner circle of SCONE was remote enough the amount of time and the resources saved in maintenance made it worthwhile I think.
In my own headcanon, tinkertech always favors itself as the faster solution. In this case, Taylor could have repaired the pipes faster by building tinkertech equivalents, but the maintenance time would have soon added up.
Don't mess with accountants, Carl at my job keeps a shotgun at his desk, I'm terrified to see what an accountant from a large corporation keeps at their desk.
(Our boss asked Carl to get rid of the shotgun, Carl asked for the boss's office, guess who won?)
If Tagg caught Danny and Lisa, then the following chapters would likely involve everything at the PRT being on fire, squiggles, jellies, and assorted other small units everywhere, and Taylor's drone units stalking the halls (possibly with active camouflage).
As much as I enjoy scones, I have actually been pronouncing this as Hush Cone for myself. (Hush from HSh from Hebert Shadow…), which makes me think of the cone of silence from that old TV show Get Smart. Coincidentally, I imagine this Taylor would function well in that particular universe.
Oh, I absolutely want to get involved, that's my problem. It's an interesting discussion, and I like your work. But there's only so many hours I can afford to spend on this stuff in a day, so I'm trying to exercise a little self-control, if only because I want my own stories to get written.
Oh, I absolutely want to get involved, that's my problem. It's an interesting discussion, and I like your work. But there's only so many hours I can afford to spend on this stuff in a day, so I'm trying to exercise a little self-control, if only because I want my own stories to get written.
15.3 Meet and Greet
"I've tracked Squealer's vehicle leaving town, and Thrawn's investigations predict that they're holed up in an abandoned highway maintenance depot about 60 miles south of the city." I point to the location on the projected map with an arm.
Lisa had a car modified with some of my tech on the undercarriage to look for the chemical tracker that Squealer's car left from the original Somer's Rock meeting.
PIggot is really hard for me to read. Even if her questions are rather harsh, she doesn't seem angry. "So, how did you get this tracker, I assume it's Tinker nonsense, onto her vehicles?"
"I poured it into a puddle and her car drove over it."
"Why aren't there dozens, or even hundreds of car trails every which way? Maybe this is one of the splinter groups of the ABB?"
I eventually explain a bit about the villain meeting, and how I neutralized the source after her car drove over it, precisely to minimize the chance of extraneous signals.
"So, you violated a truce to track her down to her safehouse?"
"No," is my immediate response, but, "well, maybe a bit? I mean, I didn't attack her and I didn't affect anything at the bar." I could see her point though.
"Let's call this strike one on your screw ups, shall we? Do you know the Unwritten Rules?"
"Yeah." I manage to not be overly mulish. I rather wish Lisa was here, but she's playing oversight for the others that we'll be bringing in for the briefing, and they're currently all meeting each other, and as Lisa put it, 'agreeing that they don't need to kill each other'.
"Do you think I like them? Do you think I wouldn't rather just bring in a couple dozen tanks to scrap whatever monstrosity Squealer has put together? Or how about get a Thinker cape to interrogate whichever Empire cape we can get ahold of to figure out the key parts of their financing?
"What you've done is the sort of stuff villains do. The heroes don't, because we set the standard, the top of the ladder. Villains try not to be the lowest rung on that ladder. Villains regularly betray each other to the Protectorate. They inform on the dastardly deeds of their peers. The PRT and Protectorate slap down and deal with the lowest rung first, whichever group is doing the most damage, and we work our way up. If there is no up, then we're all just villains.
"If you get exposed for violating people's privacy? The Empire gets rewarded for taking you down, probably killing or enslaving you, or they simply publicly expose you and ensure that the public freaks about you stalking victims in secret. Either way, you're gone, and they're stronger for it."
That seems poorly done. The E88 regularly gets people killed, and they've got the most capes currently. What if they simply lie. I feel like the heroes ought to stop the most dangerous, not the most publicly reviled.
Piggot asks if would rather have Coil back, or Lung? Begrudgingly, I answer Lung. I guess I can see the point. Both of them killed people, and were generally horrible people. I guess, for my own thoughts, I'd say that Coil enslaved and Lung ruled. Better a tyrant Lung, than Coil. She responds pointedly that exactly such feelings are why Coil tried so hard to hide.
She starts up again, huffing in irritation. "Anyway, don't do stuff like that, and let's move on. So you've tracked down Squealer's base. Why do you want to attack her there?"
"Well, so that-"
She cuts me off, "Nevermind, the teach by questioning thing is clearly more annoying to me than you. You want her lab, you want her off the streets, and that's it. So, leave her lab alone. Figure out when she's going to be in the city, capture her outside of lab, then pick apart her lab at your leisure. Besides, they'll have supplies in the city. Find those and then ambush them, as one example."
My complaints that the Merchants are being stealthy are brushed aside, and I'm just supposed to work out how to find them.
Before things can shift from debate into argument, Thrawn enters and checks that we're ready to introduce the others.
The people with me come in first. Rachel is first, as Lisa said Rachel would consider it a compliment, and she introduces herself bluntly, saying "Call me Bitch." Arania and Comma follow. Arania introduces herself simply with her name, while Comma doesn't wear a mask and says her real name and codename. Piggot already knows Paige works for me, but the woman's eyes narrow at Paige regardless. I think it's more assessment than antipathy though.
Thrawn then brings in his group, introducing them as they come in. Purity first, then Regent, and lastly some woman who introduces herself as Browbeat. Changing her appearance all the time is normal practice for her power, I suppose. Madison is currently appearing as a mid 30's latina woman, with platinum blonde hair coming down to her waist. Thrawn also mentions that he has several mercenaries in his employ as well.
Dad told me that Madison's family had been killed, and that she would likely be staying at his camp and doing patrols with Brian. I guess I felt pity for her, but I still wasn't all that comfortable around her, so it all balanced out to a kind of indifference.
I get an alert as my sonar detects a- Oh, it's Aisha? The alert includes a note, from me, about how I met her yesterday, and that she is annoying. Also, her power is a Stranger type, and powerful. Her power is passive, everybody is unable to remember her existence, and she has to actively suppress the effect. That's why I set an alert. Oh, she snuck in with Madison, and I'm supposed to introduce her.
I make that fake cough noise to get people's attention, feeling a bit of embarrassment as it doesn't sound like a cough through my voice modulator, and is instead a popping noise. Regardless, I start talking. "There's one more person, Xanatos is allowing Management's niece to participate, if she would be useful. Imp, please show yourself."
The girl in question suddenly appears, sitting on the edge of the table next to Piggot. Rachel gets angry, I think, and Madison, I mean Browbeat, jumps in surprise, while the others are simply startled. Imp has a dirty devil's mask that looks like it came from a costume shop.
Thrawn steps up, speaking, "There's nine of us in total, but we are lacking experience working together as an entire group, and a number of us, myself included, have rather little combat experience. Ms Piggot has agreed to help us take down the three Merchant capes."
Before he continues, Piggot starts talking, "I don't do democracy, I'm used to a hierarchical command structure. Thrawn and Recluse have persuaded me to see if advising you won't be a waste of my time. With those two points, I'm going to lay out what I think you lot should do as a plan, based on what you've told me of your goals, and then I'll watch and see if you can implement it, or maybe even improve it. Have a seat."
Regent grumbles, but all of us sit down. I get an alert as my sonar det- Oh, it's Aisha? Right, dad says we'll get used to her power, over the course of a few weeks or so, depending on how annoying she is to us individually.
Piggot plugs a flash drive into a small laptop, and projects a map of Brockton Bay onto a screen. It's got all the camps marked on it, as well as my former camp.
"The northernmost and southernmost camps are the main Merchant attractions," Piggot speaks, "and so, Thrawn, you arrange for a honeytrap. Pick stuff Squealer will like, gas generators, water purifiers, and that sort of thing, ostensibly loaded into some truck and call it a donation from a charity group. I'm sure you can fake or impersonate one. Make sure news quietly leaks to the intended people.
"Ideally, you lot will know some semi-official camp manager who can be tipped off and who will only tell the Merchants. Otherwise, the Empire might also take an interest. Either way, the truck should be full of whatever monsters Recluse can cook up. The Merchants aren't going to blow up their loot, they'll get close, then you spring the trap. You lot are in vehicles spread out around the truck. Once the truck is attacked, Purity takes off from her transport and wrecks whatever crime against respectable vehicles that Squealer is using. Purity then gets to cover, because this will happen in the evening, and she's like a giant glowing clay pigeon. Bitch is on her dogs, and is next in queue. Squealer will have to bring a vehicle to transport the goods, but the Merchants have also been using ATVs that she's improved. Bitch targets them. She's more maneuverable. Maybe not faster, but even if not, at least able to chase them around. Regent stops Squealer from doing anything if she gets exposed, and otherwise interferes with the goons, also prioritizing the ATVs. Comma mind controls the rest and-"
Paige speaks up, harshly, "I don't use my powers against people. That's not going to be part of the plan." Thankfully she at least remembers to not spread around my power manipulation stuff, refraining from saying she doesn't have a power anymore, aside from growing feathers out of her scalp.
Piggot snorts in derision. "Well, that's apparently a new rule for you, but what use are you then?"
"I do communications and management, hence the name Comma." She responds scathingly.
Shrugging, Piggot continues, "Well, Comma, I had figured Thrawn would be the bloated spider in the center of the web, but yes, communications is critical, so that works too. Anyway, Arania has no experience, no offense, so if you want this done in the next week or so, I'd suggest she not actually be involved in combat. Also, I don't know her abilities, so I can't suggest placement even if she has more experience than implied.
"Lastly, Recluse, if your creatures are autonomous, then you should do something else useful, but since you hide your abilities, I'm sure you ought to be more capable at determining the best course of action for yourself."
"She's baiting you, don't get angry." Lisa speaks privately to me, before I can respond to Piggot's jabs.
I simply nod in agreement.
"Lastly, Browbeat. A Changer rating, impressive though it is, doesn't make you inherently good at combat. If you have a significant Brute rating, I'd suggest you being the driver, as they're the most likely to get killed, but I expect Thrawn will prefer his mercenaries."
"True," Thrawn speaks up, lightly, "between their training, Recluse providing them with a not insignificant Brute rating, and a few days to discreetly uparmor the honeytrap truck, I expect that I can provide the driver with sufficient survivability. I don't like wasting the lives of my people, against capes or otherwise."
I think Piggot and Thrawn just had their own quiet exchange of insults.
I hope this meeting isn't reflective of the actual attack.
A lot of the stuff one could call her hypocritical about in terms of 'The Rules' never happened in this fic (e.g. not warning the Undersiders that they're in blast-range when she breaks out Bakuda-bombs against the S9).
Also I get the feeling that she cares more that Taylor doesn't even realise she's breaking etiquette with the tracking, than the rule-breaking itself. It's one thing to look at your options and decide that a potential reputation loss is worth the gain. It's another to be clueless to the fact that it's even a risk.
Uh, it looks threadmarked to me, since prior to your posting. Perhaps try refreshing the page, and if it's still not showing up, I'll ask the mods for help.
A lot of the stuff one could call her hypocritical about in terms of 'The Rules' never happened in this fic (e.g. not warning the Undersiders that they're in blast-range when she breaks out Bakuda-bombs against the S9).
Yeah, I'm not really seeing the hypocrisy here. I'm not saying she isn't in some fashion, but I'm not sure in what way she might be a hypocrite. She hasn't even said the little white lie of "I won't betray you".
Also I get the feeling that she cares more that Taylor doesn't even realise she's breaking etiquette with the tracking, than the rule-breaking itself. It's one thing to look at your options and decide that a potential reputation loss is worth the gain. It's another to be clueless to the fact that it's even a risk.
Yes, just because Taylor didn't get caught didn't make it a good idea. Though, if Piggot knew the whole story, it would be Lisa getting chewed out, as Lisa is supposed to be the smart one on these sorts of topics.
With all the discussion going on in in An Essence of Spirit, I'm wondering if Amy and Paige have talked to one another recently. I think this is the first time they've been shown in the same room, and Paige's rescue did cause a small rift between Taylor and Amy at one point so I'm wondering if she ever went to ask Paige questions and make her own personal assessment of her.
Uh, it looks threadmarked to me, since prior to your posting. Perhaps try refreshing the page, and if it's still not showing up, I'll ask the mods for help.
I'm been struggling with Metastable for a while, so shorter and more focused chapters.
Yeah, I'm not really seeing the hypocrisy here. I'm not saying she isn't in some fashion, but I'm not sure in what way she might be a hypocrite. She hasn't even said the little white lie of "I won't betray you".
Yes, just because Taylor didn't get caught didn't make it a good idea. Though, if Piggot knew the whole story, it would be Lisa getting chewed out, as Lisa is supposed to be the smart one on these sorts of topics.
Yeah, I'm not really seeing the hypocrisy here. I'm not saying she isn't in some fashion, but I'm not sure in what way she might be a hypocrite. She hasn't even said the little white lie of "I won't betray you".
That's not what hypocrisy is. You don't have to lie to be a hypocrite, and right here it's the whole 'You shouldn't break the rules if you're a good guy.' And yet Piggot, ostensibly a good guy, likes to break the rules, which makes her a hypocrite. It's like Armsmaster saying 'Breaking the endbringer truce is bad.'
She hasn't actually done any of the rulebreaking in this fic though I'm pretty sure, so her canon actions shouldn't hold weight, although she is currently meeting them under truce and also planning to use the information she gains here for the good of the PRT. Which uh, is the exact same thing she just told Recluse 'no, that's bad, don't do that' about. Which is hypocrisy.
With all the discussion going on in in An Essence of Spirit, I'm wondering if Amy and Paige have talked to one another recently. I think this is the first time they've been shown in the same room, and Paige's rescue did cause a small rift between Taylor and Amy at one point so I'm wondering if she ever went to ask Paige questions and make her own personal assessment of her.
Paige is about a decade older than Taylor, so Taylor isn't really interested in Paige, aside from her brain.
Paige is kind of creeped out by Recluse's interest in her brain.
Taylor placidly accepted that her dad was convinced by Lisa that freeing Paige was the right thing to do, and hasn't worried much about it since that point.
*Spoiler* Piggot hates Recluse's Tinker specialty. It aggravates Piggot's PTSD.
As for specifics on the security system, Piggot soon realizes the she has other priorities in training Recluse's allies and the tinker herself.
she is currently meeting them under truce and also planning to use the information she gains here for the good of the PRT. Which uh, is the exact same thing she just told Recluse 'no, that's bad, don't do that' about. Which is hypocrisy.
What truce?
Piggot didn't promise and wasn't asked to promise anything beyond Lisa getting "her to sign an NDA that is useless ass covering but helped with my power", wherein the NDA is useless because they cannot apply to criminal activity. I would readily agree that an expectation of silence on Piggot's part was implied, but that was even less explicit than Lisa's acknowledgement to Taylor that Piggot was willing to betray them in the case that they were actually evil, and that this arrangement was contingent on convincing Piggot that the Hebert SCONE was, in fact, not evil.
What truce?
Piggot didn't promise and wasn't asked to promise anything beyond Lisa getting "her to sign an NDA that is useless ass covering but helped with my power", wherein the NDA is useless because they cannot apply to criminal activity. I would readily agree that an expectation of silence on Piggot's part was implied, but that was even less explicit than Lisa's acknowledgement to Taylor that Piggot was willing to betray them in the case that they were actually evil, and that this arrangement was contingent on convincing Piggot that the Hebert SCONE was, in fact, not evil.
So forgive me if I'm wrong, but all of that seems to be even more explicit than the outside of the bar where it was totally okay to fight because only the inside of the bar matters, as per this very fic. Like Taylor did a naughty outside a place where she wasn't allowed to do anything inside but it was totally cool to wreck Hookwolf outside.
And then Piggot is disparaging that act, while planning to do basically the same thing. Yes it's only implied that she's helping out. But that's exactly the logic that would make her a hypocrite. They say you shouldn't do a thing, but they will totally do that thing in a different situation, and typically they have reasons why those two things are different even though to everyone else they're the same thing. That is what hypocrisy is. Most hypocrites don't know they're hypocrites, and some don't even believe it when shown because they're still justifying the difference in the two situations or actions to themselves, but they still are.
These are the same situations, there's no officially declared truce in Piggot's, but that's only necessary to the absolute skeeviest of folks; "You didn't say I couldn't betray you" is not really a justification of any kind.
I didn't really bring it up though, I just initially wanted to point out where it would seem like Piggot was a hypocrite since you said you didn't see it. If it's unintentional, then it's just coming off differently than you're intending.
Paige is about a decade older than Taylor, so Taylor isn't really interested in Paige, aside from her brain.
Paige is kind of creeped out by Recluse's interest in her brain.
Paige speaks up, harshly, "I don't use my powers against people. That's not going to be part of the plan." Thankfully she at least remembers to not spread around my power manipulation stuff, refraining from saying she doesn't have a power anymore, aside from growing feathers out of her scalp.
Piggot snorts in derision. "Well, that's apparently a new rule for you, but what use are you then?"
"I do communications and management, hence the name Comma." She responds scathingly.
Bluffing? I don't think he would... After all, something close enough to this worked to get Victoria as a Ward and the possible way that story could (should actually) have been spinned to make Victoria look better is a lot stronger.
Then there's also the fact that...
"Didn't know it was a school until the capes were already landing," he replied. "Had to choose, either we let you go, and you were keeping an eye out for trouble from then on, or we push the advantage."
"Putting kids at risk?"
"Dragon and Defiant both assured me you wouldn't risk the students."
...he's the kind of guy who would put kids at risk on the assurance of two people whose knowledge of the target could not be that good. Him going to the point of releasing information about Amy... Well, let's see why you say he wouldn't.
Firstly, Brandish could readily make the argument that Amy is a minor and not responsible for actions forced upon her under duress, either implicit or explicit pressure.
If Amy has been captured after a raid due to Danny going to Piggot, which is what is being discussed, the duress part becomes not very believable. Because they've got Piggot's testimony. They'll have footage or recordings of her meeting with Flashbang and the Wards. They'll be able to point out all the times Amy went to the hospital, when she could have communicated with others. They might have a recording or footage from Brandish, when she put Amy into Recluse's care. The PRT having access to all of this means that if Carol starts that argument it would not really impress the judge or jury, which means that saying she would do so when talking to Tagg would be less than smart.
Additionally, as a minor, Amy cut a deal with Recluse while in fear of her own safety. Brandish would simply acknowledge that New Wave failed to provide an adequately safe environment for Amy (which is why Glory Girl is in the Wards now, along with Flashbang and Brandish in the Protectorate) and that Tagg is attacking a frightened child who has spent her entire parahuman career healing people.
This isn't an argument Carol would want to make. Officially acknowledging that New Wave didn't provide a safe environment for Amy... Implying that they didn't care for her properly... Doing anything like that gives the PRT possible ammunition if they wish to challenge her and her husband for legal custody.
Honestly, sometimes there are no winners. Sometimes everybody loses. And if Carol fought her family could lose big. So if it looks as if Tagg is willing to push things she has to decide whether she's willing to lose to hurt the PRT. And she wasn't willing to do so for Vicky.
In the original story, the Protectorate and PRT worked together only in the sense that the Protectorate was under the PRT's control, the humans governed the parahumans. It was not intended to be an equal partnership. (If one ignores Cauldron and look at known and stated intent.)
"You want to depose me, raising Miss Militia to my place, and in the doing, force the PRT to relinquish all ideas of humans governing parahumans, to help keep those with incredible power in check."
The Protectorate is controlled by the PRT. Not the other way around. Attacking Faultline's Crew without the assistance of the Protectorate was arrogant and stupid, but it was not against any rules. (At least if we go by the original story. I can't recall that it has been shown to be different in this one, but it is possible I missed or misremembered something.)
Yes, they did. However, that was by arranged beforehand (through Amy) and given what had been written beforehand it was part of an ongoing effort to establish communications that involved both the PRT and Protectorate.
The Protectorate keep trying to talk to me, sending messages through Amy initially, but they had gotten kind of pushy when I refused to meet with them. They hadn't make any actual threats, but they had sent capes and occasional PRT guys to my camp asking about me. They didn't mess with the water systems though. They also didn't check underground, so it's not like they found anything else.
Actually, according to what you wrote they didn't. They agreed on the condition that Recluse join... That Recluse join them at at the Protectorate Rig to discuss their concerns privately.
He hesitates a moment, "Yes, but only on the condition that you join-"
Ralph cuts him off, "Seriously? You guys are going to pull this shit? This is the first time Recluse has even been willing to come to the camp, and it's her camp. You guys might try earning some actual good will from her before making demands. Everybody knows that the Simurgh fucked up the water pipes, and you're going to turn down the chance to stop trucking water into the city?"
Startled a bit, Flashbang turned to look at Ralph, then tries to continue talking to me, "I'm not saying you have to join the Protectorate, we just have some concerns and what I was going to say was that you join us at at the Protectorate Rig to discuss that privately."
Given the fact that you've written that there is uncertainty over whether Recluse does bio-tinkering, Recluse's refusal to communicate and her refusal to register as an "affiliate hero", the fact that the PRT agreed to go ahead if Recluse satisfied their concerns isn't a mark against them.
The Protectorate (as opposed to a several squads of PRT troopers) helped escort the people of Recluse's camp to the dockworkers camp. Several squads of PRT troopers, and Shadow Stalker, showed up to pick a fight with the E88 in the location of Recluse's former camp.
Order Protectorate members instead of using PRT personnel as a show of force, seriousness or concern, with the reader taking their pick according to their own believes. Shadow Stalker being useful in the role Piggot discussed. PRT troops being used so an ambush isn't expected while Protectorate members are highly visible somewhere else.
All of those examples were intended to show, without explicitly showing up in Taylor's awareness, that the PRT and Protectorate of Brockton Bay are operating as fair less of a cohesive unit than their propaganda suggests. Tagg already has either given up on forcing the Protectorate to jump to his tune or simply never cared about what they do.
Then Tagg is a failure and should not have gone from "roving director" to director of a city. The PRT is there to control the Protectorate, to keep them in check and to have humans in control of parahumans. That is one of the things PRT directors do. It is the one thing he can't give up on.
Anyway, before I continue on in my responses, I want to go off on a meta-tangent.
I have not asked you to drop this topic, because I find it valuable. I am finding out weak areas in my own writing by dint of trying to defend it. In a lot of ways, the issues you've raised are completely valid (though I disagree to what degree and perhaps even why they're valid). While I'm increasingly sure that correcting some or all of those issues are not likely to happen, I've already decided to make some edits to an upcoming chapter to try and retcon a little bit of it. That's not going to address your concerns fully, because that would require a rewrite for me to be satisfied and that would just kill the story, but that isn't meant to suggest that your concerns are invalid.
Glad that I'm of some use. And, as always, just say stop and I stop. As to you rewriting the story, it is your story. You're doing it because you find worth in doing it, whether pleasure or skill or likes or something else. Neither I nor anybody else is paying you to write what I/he/she/they want (which would be boring when compared to the storyline and characters you created) so you owe us nothing. While we follow the story we owe you at least courtesy for the pleasure you provide. So you continue to do what you want and if I or any reader decides that I or he or she can no longer suspend disbelief or ignore a piece of writing then I or he or she should just unwatch the thread without being unpleasant about it.
I've created outlines but... Writhing a conversation or the though stream of somebody, describing something... I took very long and when I read it (less than a full page) it felt so stilted. Add the fact that my time is limited with work sometimes keeping me busy and tired for days and the fact that if I see a story that I'm following has updated I'd rather read...
If the PRT tries to use a video of Flashbang to counter bad PR from trying to apply legal pressure to Flashbang's kid...
I'm not sure where to start on that being a bad idea.
Worse idea than not stopping Dragon and Defiant from continuing into a school? And it wasn't mentioned using it against Amy, it was mentioned as being used if a majority of news service took an unknown cape (either Aisha or Brian) at their word that the PRT was controlled by Nazis and ran the story. (Although yes, it could be used against Amy.)
Even all of the reasons Flashbang would be able to wreck that aside, that also shows that the Protectorate gets along just fine with Recluse. I can't see how that does anything other than make the PRT look unreasonable.
I don't think he could, without stating that the PRT was actually run by Nazis and that all the proof they have is a lie. Of course, given the amount of proof the PRT is likely to have this will do more damage to his credibility than to the PRT's. And no, it would not show the PRT as unreasonable. It would show that the PRT tried to be reasonable, tried to be accommodating and tried to reach an agreement. And that Recluse didn't want to meet with them.
If Tagg publicly 'unmasks' Danny as Xanatos, without a trial and with absolutely zero proof of Danny having powers, that will go poorly for them. There are [some number] of dockworkers who will swear up and down that Danny has done everything he could to keep his camp operating within the law.
And then the things that are not quite as law abiding is trotted out. Now, which makes the most impact with the man on the street. Ten minutes of footage showing dockworkers swearing Danny never did nothing bad or ten minutes showing mercenaries, hidden bases, Canary, Purity and somebody mentioning the millions Danny possesses. One side is words, the other provable facts. Which means the dockworkers are dismissed as dupes or paid plants or minions.
In your scenario, is the PRT actually advocating that Danny should have used illegally acquired funds to take care of one of their camps that Danny happens to be running? It's an official camp after all. Those funds were, in part, being used to feed Recluse's camp, sure, but those funds were acquired illegally. If the PRT says that Danny is secretly rich from taking down Coil, who was already demonstrated as having moles in the PRT, then the PRT is punishing the person who rescued the mayor's niece, flat out shut down a gang in the city, and exposed spies in the PRT, then the PRT has to make the argument that they were incapable of supporting one of the official camps and that Danny should have been using his illegally acquired funds (which the PRT won't be able to show he was using to live an easy life) to support the people the PRT was failing to support.
Of course they're not advocating that "Danny should have used illegally acquired funds to take care of one of their camps that Danny happens to be running". They would advocate nothing. They would just provide evidence of money and mercenaries and Canary and Purity. You stated that a majority of news service would have story about the PRT arresting a community leader if the PRT arrested Danny. I just brought up the fact that he wouldn't look good once the PRT released some information about what he has and who he associated with.
That's totally true, but Tagg isn't operating in a vacuum and the rest of the PRT will not like the shitshow of publicly 'unmasking' somebody that Tagg cannot prove is a cape, pressuring a healer, and aggressively pursuing a group of capes that he simply won't be able to prove have done any dramatic crimes.
Danny is a cape to the outside world, with his cape name of Xanathos, his mercenaries, associates and secret base. Pressuring Amy would be fine if it works and given Vicky's new position that isn't a problem. As to aggressively pursuing SCONE? They got somebody out of a Birdcage transport. That should make them a Protectorate and PRT target if the PRT feels that it is possible to get them. Add the facts that clearing away the minor gangs would enable Tagg to focus more resources on Empire 88 and that Recluse and company turned down all offers for closer association with the PRT / Protectorate and going after SCONE isn't stupid.
Part of my reasoning for Tagg's actions in this story is that he's completely bought into his own self-rightousness, but even so, I just struggle to see Tagg as able to fake sanity while being so divorced from reality as to believe the extremes of the pressure tactics you're suggesting could be viable. Tagg could possibly screw over everybody but Taylor, Danny, and Amy, out of the Hebert SCONE, but I don't think even Tagg could fail to see the consequences of his actions.
Consider his actions in the original story. The tactics he used and the risks he took. The worst case results of his actions if he failed. The fact that success was him undermining the system he claimed to defend. Yet he was willing to continue and to go quite far down the left hand path. If you consider what could go wrong with letting Mr Calle and Danny know about Alexandria and the interrogation methods the likely fate of Danny and Quinn Calle is quite final. (Although their death would probably be arranged by Alexandria and associates.) Think about what that says about him. In your story that is the man currently in charge of the Brockton Bay PRT and the one who gives the Protectorate orders.
As to him being insane... I don't know about your story, but in the original I believe the "insanity" was quite focused. A certainty that he would win if he kept at it and a certainty that the result of his actions would ultimately be worth the actions. So quite functional, so long as he doesn't have to escalate too far to win. Once he does though... Well, here's hoping the damage isn't too great and the casualties are limited to him and other bad guys.
Or do what he attempted to do to Taylor in the original story. And even if there is a trial, a restrained and gagged Danny with the "right" lawyer to defend him is a possibility, as Danny should know if he looked at Canary's trial. If Tagg captures SCONE's inner circle, an unpleasant deal, a hint of a Canary like trial and the certainty that his daughter will be worse off if he doesn't take the deal and the trial happens... Why wouldn't Danny fold?
Tagg simply does not have the ability to stop his own actions from being made public even if he takes all of the Hebert SCONE in custody. Danny will know this, and Danny might cave on Canary, Purity, and the Undersiders, but he wouldn't on Taylor.
Tagg can threaten the Birdcage (or whatever) for Taylor, but it would be a bluff and Danny would know that. Tagg can't prove crimes even halfway to what Canary did, and it would require a judge to publicly say "I'll send somebody to the Birdcage on zero evidence of violent crimes, and simply at the request of the PRT."
Arrange to send Taylor to a Juvenile Detention Center where she will be monitored and unable to tinker util she leaves it at 18 years of age. If Tinkers actually have the need to tinker then this is a believable threat and one that can be carried out.
In my own headcanon, tinkertech always favors itself as the faster solution. In this case, Taylor could have repaired the pipes faster by building tinkertech equivalents, but the maintenance time would have soon added up.
So forgive me if I'm wrong, but all of that seems to be even more explicit than the outside of the bar where it was totally okay to fight because only the inside of the bar matters, as per this very fic. Like Taylor did a naughty outside a place where she wasn't allowed to do anything inside but it was totally cool to wreck Hookwolf outside.
I don't think you're wrong, I'm thinking either you're either right or it's a matter of perspective at most.
Somer's Rock is meant to be a place where villains can meet up and trust each other that they'll walk away safely, by dint of tradition and expectation. Recluse and Kaiser agreed to fight (which Kaiser promptly abused by swapping opponents, but nobody called him on it), but Recluse stalking Squealer directly made squealer far less safe outside of the bar and is likely to have consequences far beyond posturing.
Piggot working with SCONE, at this point in time, has both sides knowing that Piggot may decide to go to the PRT with everything she's learned. It's implicit, but still understood.
Piggot hasn't been asked to keep secrets, whereas the founding principle of meeting at Somer's Rock was built on that. I'm not sure if that's hypocrisy or not, because Piggot keeping a things a secret is clearly desired by SCONE, but SCONE is trying to entice her into a beneficial arrangment in which Piggot keeps their secrets, rather than trying to force a promise out of her.
I didn't really bring it up though, I just initially wanted to point out where it would seem like Piggot was a hypocrite since you said you didn't see it. If it's unintentional, then it's just coming off differently than you're intending.
hmm...
What Paige cannot imply is that is no longer capable of using her power on people because Recluse broke her power, which is mentioned as part of the overall quote.
Paige didn't use her power in self-defense, if I recall correctly from canon, she used it accidentally.
I'm not sure what the best retort would be, and I'm not even sure if I should give Paige an optimal retort.
