My apologies, real life isn't as accommodating as I would prefer, which is why I've only been able to sit down and do a proper job (or as proper as I'm able to) of answering on Saturday. Trying to answer when getting home during the week was... Well, Ctrl + A and then delete was used when I tried on Wednesday, just before I stopped resisting the bed. (It was bad.)
Please believe that no rudeness was intended.
I'm no forensic accountant or policeman specializing in the necessary, but if Danny uses computers to do part of the paperwork, then I expect there would be a link, even if it is just his fingerprints on it, that link him to it. The portions he does on paper? Maybe something as well, even if it is just a stray hair or two that gets between pages. Or perhaps just the fact that it was in his room. If they get hold of it, by for instance raiding SCONE, then they should be able to link him to it as the person who did it. Then comes the other parts. Because if they've got a portion of the paperwork, why shouldn't they be able to follow the route the money takes to see who benefits. So even if they can't "prove" he isn't Xanathos, they can prove he is a criminal to the value of millions, one who is allied with two capes, Thrawn and Recluse. And who is it that is in that position? Xanathos.
The original was me bringing up the fact that Tagg could bring Carol a deal to sign as Amy's guardian, to keep her out of trouble for associating with criminals. The response was that if he did that Carol would have guardianship transferred to people outside of Tagg's control, which I believe he would be able to interfere with. I don't think I said he would likely attempt to take custody away from Carol or threaten to do so, mostly because I'm of the opinion that he would work to get Amy in the same position as Vicky.
You mean he or his agent can't share personal information with a judge about protectorate members but instead would have to make such information public? No, that breaks belief. There has to be procedures to protect the personal information of Wards and Protectorate members in case of legal proceedings, otherwise their identities (and families) would be too vulnerable.
No. Unless Amy escaped she's in PRT custody. Tagg is shown as ruthless, evil and at least somewhat competent in the original story. Even if he limited himself to only reasonable responses Amy wouldn't be out and walking towards the press soon after the capture of SCONE, if he didn't limit himself she's not getting out until after Danny broke.
Consider, what is the reasonable response a "good" director would have to somebody who has spent time with a tinker that might be a bio-tinker? Confinement in a room that would stop any surprises from infecting people while the person is tested for everything, hopefully with thinkers and tinkers doing the testing, with freedom from confinement only coming when it is certain there won't be a tinker plague. What about one that might work on brains? Scanning and then more scanning by tinkers. Stuff like that could go on for days or even weeks.
What is the reasonable response a "good" director would have to somebody who has spent time with a thinker that might be a social-thinker? Master / Stranger testing seems reasonable. And who knows how long that could take.
And Tagg has been shown in the original story as evil.
As to "whoever else" Canary, Bitch, Regent... I don't think there's anybody else that is both involved, knowledgeable about the situation and not a criminal
We have been talking about the possibility of Tagg capturing the SCONE inner circle because Danny went to Piggot. Which would make answering the above as easy as saying that while the PRT would have preferred to capture the Empire they got a tip about SCONE, basically having SCONE fall in their lap.
I did not say control the media, I said control the story about the PRT and Shadow Stalker's class with the Empire.
This part of the discussion started with a claim that Aisha or Brian could just go to a reporter and offer to tell the reporter what the PRT isn't saying, presenting the "facts" that the PRT is being led by somebody who doesn't think the Empire is a big deal and perhaps even sympathizes with their efforts to "clean up" the city. My response was that a reporter, never mind a newspaper, would not just write that the PRT is being controlled by Nazis or sympathetic to them, they would investigate first. I assume libel laws would stop them from stating that Tagg is a Nazi or Tagg is A White Supremacist without good proof, because those are the kind of claims that get lots of attention. Which would lead to investigation and the PRT having the opportunity to show that there has been actions against the Empire, specifically the one shown in story, he PRT and Shadow Stalker against Hookwolf and friends.
Now, you said that the media would report that as "Local PRT Director sends the only black ward in the city to fight Hookwolf without any other cape support" and I said no, because " the PRT would control the story", with the PRT troopers and Shadow Stalker giving interviews to the reporter. Control as in the PRT gives the interviews, the recordings, the everything and all Aisha / Brian does is just call the PRT director a Nazi / White Supremacists. So, what happens, does the reporter still go for "Local PRT Director sends the only black ward in the city to fight Hookwolf without any other cape support" after getting interviews and statements from those involved that do not support the headline? Because I doubt whether anything (whether because of PRT PR coaching or the truth) from the PRT side would support it.
Control the media? No. Work to censor it? Yes.
Influence it? Yes. Use it? Yes.
There is also the fact that the media might, according to a reporter, be more into playing it safe, which makes sense if you consider that a parahuman villain might not respect the press to the point of leaving the media alone after reading / hearing / seeing something uncomplimentary. Of course, he might be lying.
Assault's deal was private. Shadow Stalker's deal, that she was on probation, was private as well if I recall correctly. (Or at least I recall nothing that implies that it is known that she is on probation.) Carol requesting a public spectacle does not help keep Amy's involvement quiet or help Amy's reputation. So why would she request a spectacle?
Please do not take this the wrong way but yes, I do believe that if Tagg is close to how I perceive him in the original story then Lisa being on board with going to Piggot, considering the risks this poses of a raid and with Tagg as director then either Lisa's personality or power was downgraded.
Power wise there are lots of choices, among them Piggot, Legend, Armsmaster and also the mercenary where is able to get a pin number off a target when using her power on him again and again and again.
Personality wise? There are fewer things, but the way she tries to help Taylor and the rest of the Undersiders, the second interaction with Panacea (depending upon your biases) and the way she set up her hideout as a shelter.
I'm going to have to ask you to drop the topic of how I handled New Wave's collapse and intergration into the PRT. I've already admitted several times now that how I handled the fallout of New Wave killing Oni Lee and Bakuda would need a rewrite to have it properly fit into the story. Simply and repeatedly pointing out a problem I've already acknowledged is not helpful and I'm beginning to find it rude.
If you have further questions about what should have been written, then by all means ask. However, please cease telling me that it is simply, in fact, poorly written. I've already acknowledged that several times now.
Please believe that no rudeness was intended.
That same logic also works to prove that Lisa is also Xanatos. And Taylor, and every single person that had access to the paperwork, because there is no smoking gun that Danny (as opposed to all the other adult males associated with Hebert SCONE) is Xanatos.
The paperwork doesn't have Danny's name on it, or Lisa's name, or the names Thrawn and Xanatos. The paperwork is illegal, and so has as little to tie it back to the people managing it as possible. All the illegal paperwork is in Taylor's heroic lair, and none of illegal paperwork is helpfully labeled as "Xanatos's portion of the illegal paperwork". It's whatever accounting wizarding Lisa needs to let her manage the properties and investments the Heberts and she split. All the 'names' on the paperwork are whatever fake legal names of non-existent people or shell companies that allow the Hebert SCONE to launder/operate/invest their illegal wealth
I'm no forensic accountant or policeman specializing in the necessary, but if Danny uses computers to do part of the paperwork, then I expect there would be a link, even if it is just his fingerprints on it, that link him to it. The portions he does on paper? Maybe something as well, even if it is just a stray hair or two that gets between pages. Or perhaps just the fact that it was in his room. If they get hold of it, by for instance raiding SCONE, then they should be able to link him to it as the person who did it. Then comes the other parts. Because if they've got a portion of the paperwork, why shouldn't they be able to follow the route the money takes to see who benefits. So even if they can't "prove" he isn't Xanathos, they can prove he is a criminal to the value of millions, one who is allied with two capes, Thrawn and Recluse. And who is it that is in that position? Xanathos.
Tagg can't get Amy taken away from her family without a judge signing off on it.
The original was me bringing up the fact that Tagg could bring Carol a deal to sign as Amy's guardian, to keep her out of trouble for associating with criminals. The response was that if he did that Carol would have guardianship transferred to people outside of Tagg's control, which I believe he would be able to interfere with. I don't think I said he would likely attempt to take custody away from Carol or threaten to do so, mostly because I'm of the opinion that he would work to get Amy in the same position as Vicky.
He cannot whisper into somebody's ear to make this happen. He would also have to make public statements that the previously agreed to by the PRT operation of things was invalid and that it needs to change.
You mean he or his agent can't share personal information with a judge about protectorate members but instead would have to make such information public? No, that breaks belief. There has to be procedures to protect the personal information of Wards and Protectorate members in case of legal proceedings, otherwise their identities (and families) would be too vulnerable.
The backing of Amy, and whomever else they can get on their side.
No. Unless Amy escaped she's in PRT custody. Tagg is shown as ruthless, evil and at least somewhat competent in the original story. Even if he limited himself to only reasonable responses Amy wouldn't be out and walking towards the press soon after the capture of SCONE, if he didn't limit himself she's not getting out until after Danny broke.
Consider, what is the reasonable response a "good" director would have to somebody who has spent time with a tinker that might be a bio-tinker? Confinement in a room that would stop any surprises from infecting people while the person is tested for everything, hopefully with thinkers and tinkers doing the testing, with freedom from confinement only coming when it is certain there won't be a tinker plague. What about one that might work on brains? Scanning and then more scanning by tinkers. Stuff like that could go on for days or even weeks.
What is the reasonable response a "good" director would have to somebody who has spent time with a thinker that might be a social-thinker? Master / Stranger testing seems reasonable. And who knows how long that could take.
And Tagg has been shown in the original story as evil.
As to "whoever else" Canary, Bitch, Regent... I don't think there's anybody else that is both involved, knowledgeable about the situation and not a criminal
Where is the PRT's proof? Sure, it looks like the Hebert SCONE has been breaking the law, but far less so than the E88 and the PRT is hell bent on pounding the down child parahumans with fewer crimes than the nazis gang in the city.
We have been talking about the possibility of Tagg capturing the SCONE inner circle because Danny went to Piggot. Which would make answering the above as easy as saying that while the PRT would have preferred to capture the Empire they got a tip about SCONE, basically having SCONE fall in their lap.
This may be the crux of our discussion, I think.
WoG for Metastable: The PRT, and Tagg specifically, cannot unilaterally dictate the content of the media, either locally or nationally.
My arguments for this hypothetical is intended to be in line with my understanding of worm canon, as the PRT was seriously upset at the release of the E88 identities and Skitter had better PR than the PRT at Arcadia. The PRT lacked the ability to limit the release of strategically dangerous information or dictate their appearance in the media.
After the humiliation of having all of Coil's informants in the PRT publicly outed, as well as those of the other gangs that included the E88, I'm content to simply flat out state that the media will absolutely refuse to ignore a second story from the people of the Hebert SCONE about further gang infiltrators in the local PRT.
Already once in Metastable has Thrawn and Xanatos been proven to know more about the security of the Brockton Bay PRT than the people in charge of running it. To hold the position that the media will refuse to countenance even the possibility that the PRT is screwing over Thrawn and Xanatos to avoid a second humiliation may be past my ability to grasp.
I did not say control the media, I said control the story about the PRT and Shadow Stalker's class with the Empire.
This part of the discussion started with a claim that Aisha or Brian could just go to a reporter and offer to tell the reporter what the PRT isn't saying, presenting the "facts" that the PRT is being led by somebody who doesn't think the Empire is a big deal and perhaps even sympathizes with their efforts to "clean up" the city. My response was that a reporter, never mind a newspaper, would not just write that the PRT is being controlled by Nazis or sympathetic to them, they would investigate first. I assume libel laws would stop them from stating that Tagg is a Nazi or Tagg is A White Supremacist without good proof, because those are the kind of claims that get lots of attention. Which would lead to investigation and the PRT having the opportunity to show that there has been actions against the Empire, specifically the one shown in story, he PRT and Shadow Stalker against Hookwolf and friends.
Now, you said that the media would report that as "Local PRT Director sends the only black ward in the city to fight Hookwolf without any other cape support" and I said no, because " the PRT would control the story", with the PRT troopers and Shadow Stalker giving interviews to the reporter. Control as in the PRT gives the interviews, the recordings, the everything and all Aisha / Brian does is just call the PRT director a Nazi / White Supremacists. So, what happens, does the reporter still go for "Local PRT Director sends the only black ward in the city to fight Hookwolf without any other cape support" after getting interviews and statements from those involved that do not support the headline? Because I doubt whether anything (whether because of PRT PR coaching or the truth) from the PRT side would support it.
Can you explain further as to how you are concluding that the worm canon PRT's ability to control the media in Brockton Bay exists to the extent you claim?
Control the media? No. Work to censor it? Yes.
"And relieving capes from duty at the same time," Defiant said. "With so few employees, it's ridiculous to continue working to shut down leaks and control the flow of information. Dragon has expressed concerns over having to do this in the past, and between the two of us, we've agreed that the censorship stops tonight, at midnight."
Influence it? Yes. Use it? Yes.
"I have. Bad publicity fades with time. So do welts and scabs. Five or ten years from now, provided the world makes it that long, nobody will remember anything except the fact that we fought back. Good publicity will overwrite the bad, carefully chosen words and some favors called in with people in the media will help whitewash any of our mistakes. We're an institution."
There is also the fact that the media might, according to a reporter, be more into playing it safe, which makes sense if you consider that a parahuman villain might not respect the press to the point of leaving the media alone after reading / hearing / seeing something uncomplimentary. Of course, he might be lying.
"I would be if you gave me permission," he said, dropping his hand. The job was politics as much as it was investigation, creativity and presentation. What did she want? Peace and quiet. "Give us fifteen minutes to talk to your students and shoot a few takes in front of the doors, and I'll get the word out that we got the story first. Other stations are playing it safer, these days, less crew, less willing to act on sloppy seconds."
Carol will demand that in notarized writing, either a declaration of intending to charge Amy or actual charges, and the offered deal. Making this a public spectacle prevents Tagg from screwing over the Hebert SCONE in the short term, thus allowing Lisa and Danny to leverage her knowledge and information to force a useful deal.
Assault's deal was private. Shadow Stalker's deal, that she was on probation, was private as well if I recall correctly. (Or at least I recall nothing that implies that it is known that she is on probation.) Carol requesting a public spectacle does not help keep Amy's involvement quiet or help Amy's reputation. So why would she request a spectacle?
My point was that Lisa in story almost certainly has a better idea of Tagg's personality and abilities than you, and if Lisa sees no problem with her actions, then you are arguing that either I've written Lisa badly (totally possible, so please don't take this as me saying you're definitively wrong) or that you have a better grasp of the situation than Lisa (again, that's at least possible, because Lisa does occasionally screw up with her power in both Worm and Metastable, but if it's supposed to be a 'shocking twist' or something, I would have needed to screw up my foreshadowing to have confirmed it. If I had confirmed it, then it wouldn't be foreshadowing.)
Please do not take this the wrong way but yes, I do believe that if Tagg is close to how I perceive him in the original story then Lisa being on board with going to Piggot, considering the risks this poses of a raid and with Tagg as director then either Lisa's personality or power was downgraded.
Power wise there are lots of choices, among them Piggot, Legend, Armsmaster and also the mercenary where is able to get a pin number off a target when using her power on him again and again and again.
Which meant Lisa could do what she came here to do. She turned her attention to the man that sat on the leather covered bench by the change rooms. Thirty-something, wearing fashionable clothes and a nice jacket that was perhaps a bit too big for him, hair recently cut. He waited with his attention on his smartphone, while his girlfriend or wife tried on something. Deserving of a little more scrutiny.
Expensive clothes, expensive phone; wealthy.
Confident, patient despite being in a position many guys hated; mature, adult. Clothes style match his personal tastes, not the type to dress according to girlfriend's tastes. Tall, athletic: exercise habits developed in military but not currently enlisted this ties into confidence and patience he's used to waiting and-
She stopped. Needed to get back on track. Just needed a starting point to get at the stuff he'd keep secret. Confidence, military. How would he pick a four digit number?
Confident and military trained; goes out of his way to keep numbers random. Looks early thirties; born late 70's. Tendency to go with higher number to start. 8 or 9, mid-range number like four, five or six, then high, low, no repeating numbers. Dressing in darker jacket, pants, trimmed beard, conservative; number will be even-even-odd-odd or odd-odd-even-even.
"Something else," she murmured to herself, as the flow of information began to slow. If it slowed enough, it meant that there weren't enough points of reference to generate new data, it could even mean her power would start supplying information based on speculation or falsehoods. She chanced a look at the cashier, but the girl was studiously ignoring her, for the time being.
She looked back to the man. Shoes were nothing special. No logos or brand names on anything he wore, that she could see… but he was using his left hand on the touchscreen of his phone.
Southpaw; tendency to go for numbers on left side of keypad, eight, then four, seven, then one or three. One. 8471.
Personality wise? There are fewer things, but the way she tries to help Taylor and the rest of the Undersiders, the second interaction with Panacea (depending upon your biases) and the way she set up her hideout as a shelter.
The second building was a sort I'd seen often enough as of late. I'd stayed in similar places for nearly two weeks before rejoining the Undersiders. The structure stood in the center of the area, surrounded by tents and communal areas that were sheltered by tarps set over metal frameworks – a dining hall, a medical bay, portable washrooms. Each of these outdoor stations had dozens of people gathered around them. It was a shelter.
She'd told me not to dress up, so I hadn't. She'd also told me not to wash my hair today, but it was too late for that. I'd donned a brown spaghetti-strap top, rain boots and a pair of lightweight black pants that were a little worn from the past few weeks, but had the benefit of drying quickly. My knife was tucked inside the waistband of my pants, at my back. Not obvious, not entirely hidden either.
Way things were these days, cops were letting things slide as far as concealed and openly displayed weaponry went. People needed protection, and so long as the armed didn't break the rules about using the weapons on people who didn't attack them first, most people wouldn't give them much trouble. Some shelters wouldn't let you in with a weapon, of course, but some did, and others disallowed firearms but let other weapons slide.
I made my way inside, joining the rest of the crowd. Cots filled the majority of the building's interior, and both possessions and people made navigating between the beds difficult at best. Signs were spread out over the walls, some professionally made, others written in plain print with permanent marker:
'Priority Order: Sick, injured, disabled, old, very young, families.' In smaller print below was the message, 'Please be courteous and give up your places to priority individuals.'
'No pets' was written on a square of white cardboard in permanent marker and triple underlined.
'Abuse or threats directed at staff or other residents will NOT be tolerated.'
'Belongings go under your cot. Excess + mess may be removed from the area.'
'No smoking within 30 paces of facility' was printed on a professionally made sign, but the line that was scrawled beneath in permanent marker was not: 'there are sick people here!'
I found a big, burly guy that wore an orange vest and name tag and approached him. He was talking to someone else, so I waited.
When he turned to me, he frowned, "You wanting to stay here?"
"No, but-"
"Opened our doors yesterday, and we're already nearly full. Any more space is reserved for priority people. If you want a place, you can try the other shelters down-"
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