Remove ads

Marvel Phase 4

Jcogginsa said:
How is that the basic question?

Should not the basic question be "Do these shows reference the MCU"

Look, I don't even agree with the guy, I just take issue with the way you're debating this. You're not disproving his evidence, you're arbitrarily declaring that his evidence doesn't count.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
See that's the problem, is it's a two-way street. The basic question is "Do the shows and the MCU reference each other?"

The shows reference the MCU, the MCU does not reference the shows aside from the single case where a character from Agent Carter shows up, but the events of the show he was in are not referenced (and are actively contradicted by Endgame's ending, mind.)
 
Last edited:
IfIhadaHammer said:
Of course none of this means we won't see those characters again, potentially even with the same actors in the role. After all, Jamie Foxx is coming back as Electro in the next Spider-man film. (Though I swear to god, if one of you makes the claim that the Amazing Spider-man movies are now marvel canon, I will hurt somebody.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

"THEY USED ELECTRO, ALL THE SONY SPIDER MAN FILMS ARE NOW CANON!"

Me: "Oh hell no."

*nukes entire thread, just to be sure*
 
Shanejayell said:
Going by your argument, if Saturday Night Live references the Avengers in a skit, it's canon.

Any reasonable person: NO, it's not.

I rest my case.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, there is a clear difference between referencing a piece of pop culture, and referencing events as if they took place in the same universe. It's ludicrous to compare the two.
 
I swear to god if they try to remake Into the Spiderverse as live action not even a decade after the first it'll be peak hollywood being insecure about animation.
 
Another reason for the soft canon is that it is just practical.

The shows want to write their own stuff and not be too hindered by the movies. They may also not know what will happen in the movies, or, if they do, can't spoil it either, and the release schedule of both shows and movies do not always line up, so there are many ways in which a storyline in a show can be undermined by the movies.

Soft canon allows shows to play it safe, when they can't use a movie plot point for their own storyline or when movie events would impact their setting far too much. Why do people think Agents of SHIELD essentially becomes an AU by season 6 and do not acknowledge the Snap? :V
IfIhadaHammer said:
Of course none of this means we won't see those characters again, potentially even with the same actors in the role. After all, Jamie Foxx is coming back as Electro in the next Spider-man film. (Though I swear to god, if one of you makes the claim that the Amazing Spider-man movies are now marvel canon, I will hurt somebody.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The MCU Spider-Man canon has become so weird, because the same Jonah J. Jameson and now Electro from other movies exist in it.
 
Jcogginsa said:
No, there is a clear difference between referencing a piece of pop culture, and referencing events as if they took place in the same universe. It's ludicrous to compare the two.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That IS Ant's argument, tho.

"The Movies don't acknowledge the TV, but look! Little movie references in the shows! That makes it canon!"

"Dude, you're watching Scooby Doo."

"CANON, I say!"
 
IfIhadaHammer said:
See that's the problem, is it's a two-way street. The basic question is "Do the shows and the MCU reference each other?"

The shows reference the MCU, the MCU does not reference the shows aside from the single case where a character from Agent Carter shows up, but the events of the show he was in are not referenced (and are actively contradicted by Endgame's ending, mind.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
How is it contradicted by Endgame's ending?

Shanejayell said:
That IS Ant's argument, tho.

"The Movies don't acknowledge the TV, but look! Little movie references in the shows! That makes it canon!"

"Dude, you're watching Scooby Doo."

"CANON, I say!"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Again, you cannot compare pop-culture references to references to events that have taken place within the show's universe. Stop trying.
 
Jcogginsa said:
How is it contradicted by Endgame's ending?



Again, you cannot compare pop-culture references to references to events that have taken place within the show's universe. Stop trying.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So the events of Agent Carter kind of assume Steve is gone to the future for good. Him coming back, apparently not all that long after he was frozen, secretly, doesn't exactly fit all that well. I mean you could absolutely argue that this is just another symptom of Endgame time travel playing fast and loose with its own rules, but still, the fact that very little consideration of the canon of the shows was made only proves my point more, not less.
 
I don't think it needs to be spoilers. If a reader hasn't seen Endgame by now.... *lol*

I had kind of assumed Steve arrived after the events of the Agent Carter show. Also, does the SHIELD final season contradict that too?
 
IfIhadaHammer said:
So the events of Agent Carter kind of assume Steve is gone to the future for good. Him coming back, apparently not all that long after he was frozen, secretly, doesn't exactly fit all that well. I mean you could absolutely argue that this is just another symptom of Endgame time travel playing fast and loose with its own rules, but still, the fact that very little consideration of the canon of the shows was made only proves my point more, not less.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That was an AU caused by time travel, so I don't think that counts as a contradiction. Steve wasn't in the past in his own past, Endgame's time travel doesn't work that way
 
All this time travel induced confusion, do you people want Kang?

Because this is how you get Kang

Jokes aside, I've just decided to operate under the assumption that the Netflix shows and AoS are "canon" but in a separate timeline, since it's more efficient that way, and the people running things (and me) don't have to worry about all the continuity issues. And tonal ones, seriously, the Netflix shows do not mesh well with the main MCU continuity.
 
Nidhoggr said:
All this time travel induced confusion, do you people want Kang?

Because this is how you get Kang

Jokes aside, I've just decided to operate under the assumption that the Netflix shows and AoS are "canon" but in a separate timeline, since it's more efficient that way, and the people running things (and me) don't have to worry about all the continuity issues. And tonal ones, seriously, the Netflix shows do not mesh well with the main MCU continuity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We are, in fact, getting Kang
 
tankdrop24 said:
'Spider-Man 3': Alfred Molina Returning as Doctor Octopus

Yeah... odds are climbing that this is going to be a spiderverse movie. I have a feeling that they're actually doing this to have a clean divorce between Spiderman and the MCU, end the film with Peter Parker ended up in the Sony universe, probably.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

One thing that got me thinking, would Norman endorse the open use of Chitauri tech after the battle of New York where as Tony chose to keep it out of the hands of humanity and argue that humanity needs to use every tech advantage they can find?
 
Apparently there have been some poor choices in terms of casting for the Ms.Marvel series.
 
IfIhadaHammer said:
See that's what everyone assumed after endgame, but the Russos said it was just one timeline in interviews later.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No Steve ended up in an alternate timeline with his actions at the end of Endgame, not back in time in the main timeline, as the film already established that isn't how time travel worked in the MCU, if indeed Steve did simply go back into time in the main timeline, then it makes the whole time heist that happened earlier on in the film pointless. When instead the Avengers could've just gone back in time to prevent the snap from happening at all in the first place. Which is personally what I think should've happened in the film, maybe then some people like my nephews wouldn't have been so confused by the whole time travel plot element.
 
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top