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Marvel Phase 4

Ant221 said:
Originally the Defenders were to cameo in Avengers Infinity War and the shows have mentioned events from the films and in the case of Agents of SHIELD had tie in episodes to some of the films, like Winter Soldier for example. AoS and the Netflix shows are part of the MCU, they have been since the shows were made, it's all connected after all. It can't just suddenly not be, all that'll do is cause resentment from fans of those shows who won't watch the Disney+ shows and consider them not part of the MCU in return.
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Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows reference the movies, but the movies never referenced the shows or acknowledged that they exist. It's like the relationship between George Lucas and the Star Wars EU: the works in other mediums have to follow what the movies say, but the movies don't reciprocate.
 
Ant221 said:
Originally the Defenders were to cameo in Avengers Infinity War and the shows have mentioned events from the films and in the case of Agents of SHIELD had tie in episodes to some of the films, like Winter Soldier for example. AoS and the Netflix shows are part of the MCU, they have been since the shows were made, it's all connected after all. It can't just suddenly not be, all that'll do is cause resentment from fans of those shows who won't watch the Disney+ shows and consider them not part of the MCU in return.
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The Marvel/Disney side never said the Netflix stuff was ever gonna be canon. Nor would I expect it to be, since Marvel wouldn't even be able to reference them in the films because of how the Netflix deals worked....

If I was gonna try to 'salvage' the Netflix stuff, I'd suggest doing a Disney + series called 'Heroes for Hire' and just not use the Netflix trademarks for Jessica Jones, Luke Cage or Iron Fist.

In-universe I'd have Luke and Jessica both confess they signed a dodgy deal with a agent, and now can't use their names in any promotional materials for their new detective agency.... ;)
 
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The Narrator said:
Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows reference the movies, but the movies never referenced the shows or acknowledged that they exist. It's like the relationship between George Lucas and the Star Wars EU: the works in other mediums have to follow what the movies say, but the movies don't reciprocate.
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Well Agents of SHIELD season 2 had it shown, Coulson had the Helicarrier built that shows up in Age of Ultron, with Fury remarking he got it from some old friends, that could be seen as the films acknowledging Agents of SHIELD.

www.marvel.com

Marvel Studios' 'Black Widow' and More Receive New Phase Four Release Dates

Find out when ‘Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings’ and ‘Eternals’ arrive in theaters
www.marvel.com www.marvel.com

The theatrical release dates for Black Widow, Eternals, and Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings have been delayed into 2021. The new dates also rearranges the release order, so now Shang-Chi will come out before Eternals. Here are their new released dates:
Black Widow - May 7, 2021
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings - July 9, 2021
Eternals - November 5, 2021
 
The problem Ant is that you keep using shows as evidence even though the whole point is that the movies are the primary canon and completely ignore the shows' references, like hoow AoU makes it look like the Helicarrier was Fury's initiative.

It's like using the comic adaptations of the MCU as if they are canon. No matter how much they reference stuff or retroactively tie into the movies, it doesn't change the fact that they aren't a part of it.

Legit the only real evidence is Jarvis from Agent Carter showing up in Endgame.
 
gyrobot said:
www.escapistmagazine.com

2020: The Year We Had No Heroes - The Big Picture - The Escapist

2020 will offer no big Marvel Cinematic Universe superheroes (or anyone else?) in theaters. The Big Picture mourns the lack of heroes.
www.escapistmagazine.com www.escapistmagazine.com

It just feels odd to not have an annual marvel studios film especially during trying times.
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I mean we could have but Disney wants that goddamned box office money and holding out for next year for things to return to normal instead of releasing Black Widow on D+
 
From where I'm sitting it's the MCU that would have to prove itself part of the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. canon :p
 
all fictions said:
The problem Ant is that you keep using shows as evidence even though the whole point is that the movies are the primary canon and completely ignore the shows' references, like hoow AoU makes it look like the Helicarrier was Fury's initiative.

It's like using the comic adaptations of the MCU as if they are canon. No matter how much they reference stuff or retroactively tie into the movies, it doesn't change the fact that they aren't a part of it.

Legit the only real evidence is Jarvis from Agent Carter showing up in Endgame.
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If Agent Carter is part of the MCU still, so are the Netflix shows and Agents of SHIELD, season 1 had, Nick Fury, Sif and Maria Hill in it, Abomination was mentioned, the events of Winter Soldier with the Hydra reveal, the show impacts the films, as I mentioned fore Coulson was key to building the Helicarrier that shows up in Age of Ultron, getting intel on Strucker's base for the Avengers, setting up the start of Age of Ultron, the events of Civil War was mentioned in season 3. and the Accords were a sub plot in season 4. Thanos was namedropped several times in season 5, what happened in New York early on in infinity War as mentioned. The Quantum Realm was mentioned and used in the final season and Sousa from Agent Carter shows up in the final season as well.

The way the stories were handled is that you don't have to watch the films to understand the show, with the exception of Winter Soldier, it's like what happens in the comics, the Avengers do their own thing, SHEILD does their own thing, it's all connected.

There is nothing anyone will ever say that will ever convince me that Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows aren't part of the MCU!

Hotdog Vendor said:
From where I'm sitting it's the MCU that would have to prove itself part of the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. canon :p
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My nephew said the same thing, he's a big fan of the show as well.
 
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Ant221 said:
If Agent Carter is part of the MCU still, so are the Netflix shows and Agents of SHIELD, season 1 had, Nick Fury, Sif and Maria Hill in it, Abomination was mentioned, the events of Winter Soldier with the Hydra reveal, the show impacts the films, as I mentioned fore Coulson was key to building the Helicarrier that shows up in Age of Ultron, getting intel on Strucker's base for the Avengers, setting up the start of Age of Ultron, the events of Civil War was mentioned in season 3. and the Accords were a sub plot in season 4. Thanos was namedropped several times in season 5, what happened in New York early on in infinity War as mentioned. The Quantum Realm was mentioned and used in the final season and Sousa from Agent Carter shows up in the final season as well.
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all fictions said:
you keep using shows as evidence even though the whole point is that the movies are the primary canon and completely ignore the shows' references,
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Retroactive references made in the shows after the movies aren't proofs no matter how much you wish it so. I can write a fanfic that features all those elements, does that mean my fanfic is canon to the MCU?

You have to conclusively show things from the show that happens in the movies, not the opposite.

You seem to really not understand so I will give some concrete examples: Harley Quinn was not canon to the DC universe of the comics, she was a character originating in the cartoon TV show. But she was so popular she made the jump to comics and is now a main staple of DC comics and its adaptations.

So in that same vein, movie characters and references making the jump to TV doesn't really mean much if the opposite doesn't happen. Only now that Feige is here does it seem that the TV shows will impact the movies and that only seems to apply to the Disney+ ones.
Ant221 said:
There is nothing anyone will ever say that will ever convince me that Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows aren't part of the MCU!
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I really don't understand why you are so bothered by this. When the prequel comic adaptation of Stephen King's The Dark Tower, showing its protagonist's past, was contradicted by King releasing a new book in the series, you know what happened? The comic artist just said "it takes place on a different level of the Tower" (i.e. a slightly different parallel timeline) and moved on.

Who cares if the shows are on slightly different timelines? They are still good on their own right, and they eventually moved on from being too close to the movies' events anyway.
 
all fictions said:
I really don't understand why you are so bothered by this. When the prequel comic adaptation of Stephen King's The Dark Tower, showing its protagonist's past, was contradicted by King releasing a new book in the series, you know what happened? The comic artist just said "it takes place on a different level of the Tower" (i.e. a slightly different parallel timeline) and moved on.

Who cares if the shows are on slightly different timelines? They are still good on their own right, and they eventually moved on from being too close to the movies' events anyway.
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I'm bothered as I watched those shows from the very beginning, when it was said, it's all connected, they're part of the MCU, now all of a sudden, their no longer part of the MCU, while the Disney+ shows will be, it's like Kevin Feige is saying to the haters of Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows that their vindicated in their hatred of the shows, ' You got your wish. Those awful shows are no longer part of the MCU.'

It's a slap in the face to fans of those shows such as myself and as I said, this happening will cause resentment from fans of Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows.
 
Ant221, the Netflix shows WERE NEVER PART OF THE MCU. Period. Because the agreement between Marvel and Netflix literally prevented Marvel from using ANY of the characters in the MCU. It's why, now, Disney + is having to wait years until they can use the former Netflix characters.

Anyway....

Ms Marvel has been cast!

deadline.com

Newcomer Iman Vellani To Play Title Role In Marvel’s ‘Ms. Marvel’ Series For Disney Plus

Marvel has found its 'Ms. Marvel' as the studio is tapping newcomer Iman Vellani to star in its TV series on the comic-book character for Disney Plus.
deadline.com deadline.com
 
Shanejayell said:
Ant221, the Netflix shows WERE NEVER PART OF THE MCU. Period. Because the agreement between Marvel and Netflix literally prevented Marvel from using ANY of the characters in the MCU. It's why, now, Disney + is having to wait years until they can use the former Netflix characters.

Anyway....

Ms Marvel has been cast!

deadline.com

Newcomer Iman Vellani To Play Title Role In Marvel’s ‘Ms. Marvel’ Series For Disney Plus

Marvel has found its 'Ms. Marvel' as the studio is tapping newcomer Iman Vellani to star in its TV series on the comic-book character for Disney Plus.
deadline.com deadline.com
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About time :D
 
Shanejayell said:
Ant221, the Netflix shows WERE NEVER PART OF THE MCU. Period. Because the agreement between Marvel and Netflix literally prevented Marvel from using ANY of the characters in the MCU. It's why, now, Disney + is having to wait years until they can use the former Netflix characters.
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I assume you mean prevented them from using the characters in the movies, because the shows reference the events of the movies.
 
Shanejayell said:
Ant221, the Netflix shows WERE NEVER PART OF THE MCU. Period. Because the agreement between Marvel and Netflix literally prevented Marvel from using ANY of the characters in the MCU.
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Is 'being shown in a cinema' the necessary precondition for something being part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe?
Jcogginsa said:
I assume you mean prevented them from using the characters in the movies, because the shows reference the events of the movies.
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I'm guessing according to Shanejayell, the movies are the MCU. So since characters from the shows aren't allowed in the movies (the MCU), therefore those characters aren't part of the MCU (the movies), which means the shows aren't part of the MCU (the movies), which proves that the MCU (the movies) is just the movies (the MCU). It makes sense. If the movies are the MCU then categorically the MCU is the movies. I can't argue with that.

The fact that the shows are set in a world where the events and characters of the movies (the MCU) occured and existed (to the extent that the creators were aware of those events) is an awkward and persistent coincidence which we'd best ignore and forget.

Or we can say that the shows are attached to the outside of the MCU. (Except Edwin Jarvis but he's a very special case because Kevin Feige...)
 
Marvel CINEMATIC Universe.

CINEMA = MOVIES.

Nuff said.

Edit: Admittedly, I'm willing to concede Marvel says some stuff is canon. But I think they have to officially say it's canon...
 
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Shanejayell said:
Marvel CINEMATIC Universe.

CINEMA = MOVIES.

Nuff said.

Edit: Admittedly, I'm willing to concede Marvel says some stuff is canon. But I think they have to officially say it's canon...
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While I concede that the TV shows are not movies, I don't think anyone was ever arguing that the TV shows are movies.
 
The main issue here is, as we've said before, that the movies never referenced or acknowledged the events of TV shows. The TV shows would reference the movies, certainly, but never vice versa. It was a one-way street.

Again, this is not new, because this is the same sort of relationship that has existed for decades between the Star Wars films and the Star Wars Expanded Universe.
 
Shanejayell said:
Ant221, the Netflix shows WERE NEVER PART OF THE MCU. Period. Because the agreement between Marvel and Netflix literally prevented Marvel from using ANY of the characters in the MCU. It's why, now, Disney + is having to wait years until they can use the former Netflix characters.

Anyway....

Ms Marvel has been cast!

deadline.com

Newcomer Iman Vellani To Play Title Role In Marvel’s ‘Ms. Marvel’ Series For Disney Plus

Marvel has found its 'Ms. Marvel' as the studio is tapping newcomer Iman Vellani to star in its TV series on the comic-book character for Disney Plus.
deadline.com deadline.com
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The deal ended the minute Netflix cancelled the MCU Netflix shows for stupid reasons without giving some of the shows, Iron Fist in particular a proper ending, the Netflix shows are part of the MCU.
 
Please provide one official announcement from Disney or Marvel saying the Netflix shows were part of the MCU.

.....

I'm waiting....

;)
 
Are there any official announcements which say the shows aren't intended to be understood as set on Earth-199999? ;)
 
The Narrator said:
The main issue here is, as we've said before, that the movies never referenced or acknowledged the events of TV shows. The TV shows would reference the movies, certainly, but never vice versa. It was a one-way street.

Again, this is not new, because this is the same sort of relationship that has existed for decades between the Star Wars films and the Star Wars Expanded Universe.
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Agent Carter is at the very least acknowledge by the Movies, albeit indirectly.
 
Wow! A statement made in a podcast before the shows were even made! And not officially from Marvel or Disney!

Try harder.
 
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