Shanejayell
Yuri Fan without a Pause
- Pronouns
- He
We're specifically discussing Netflix, which didn't even do that...
Marvel Phase 4
- Thread starter serra2
- Start date
- Movies
We're specifically discussing Netflix, which didn't even do that...
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I could have sworn there were references to the Hulk in harlem during one of the shows
Shanejayell
Yuri Fan without a Pause
- Pronouns
- He
Admittedly it's completely moot anyway because the Netflix shows are never coming back & if Disney + wants to use them they'll have to reboot everything.
It's just a nitpicky thing that annoys me.
It's just a nitpicky thing that annoys me.
- Location
- Dublin
Plus the Battle of New York was mentioned in Daredevil Season 1 and Jessica Jones Season 1.
Shanejayell
Yuri Fan without a Pause
- Pronouns
- He
You keep saying the things and not proving the things.
- Location
- Dublin
The statement was made by Marvel Entertainment's Chief Creative Officer Joe Quesada that Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Jessica Jones are part of the MCU. I'd imagine the same is true for The Punisher. That's good enough for me. Fact the shows are part of the MCU, as is Agents of SHIELD as well.
Shanejayell
Yuri Fan without a Pause
- Pronouns
- He
The only thing I could find was in Daredevil they mention 'The Incident.' It's weirdly non-specific, and could be referencing Hulk or the alien attack in Avengers.
A conversation on a podcast doesn't equal a official statement either from Disney or from Marvel itself. And if Nextflix had been intended to be canon to the MCU, there would have been direct references rather than hinting at stuff.
Last edited:
- Location
- Dublin
The incident refers to The Battle of New York, which was also mentioned in Jessica Jones Season 1, with one character who lost family in that, trying to kill Jessica Jones early on, with the Avengers mentioned.
The statement was made by Marvel Entertainment's Chief Creative Officer. That's good enough for me.
tankdrop24
Tread First into Hell
- Location
- The Center of the Universe: Toronto, Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Everything is canon and nothing is.
Shanejayell
Yuri Fan without a Pause
- Pronouns
- He
Did some googling, out of curiosity. About the only reference I could find was the Joe Q statement. And, it should be noted, he's not in charge of either the MCU, Marvel TV or the Netflix stuff.
This gives a good overview, I think:
io9.gizmodo.com
Basically, Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter are canon.
Netflix is not canon, or at best 'soft canon' as they don't specifically reference MCU stuff. (No Avengers Tower!)
This gives a good overview, I think:
How the Marvel Cinematic Universe Left Its TV Side Behind
Next month, the Marvel Cinematic Universe celebrates a grand achievement—just a week after the release of Avengers: Infinity War, it will have been 10 years since Iron Man hit theaters on May 2, 2008. Five years after Marvel effectively created its Cinematic Universe, the company’s TV division...
io9.gizmodo.com
Basically, Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter are canon.
Netflix is not canon, or at best 'soft canon' as they don't specifically reference MCU stuff. (No Avengers Tower!)
- Location
- Los Angeles
And even Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter are probably 'soft canon`, because while they directly reference the MCU, the MCU has never referenced them, whereas we've already been told upcoming Doctor Strange 2 will directly reference the events of WandaVision.Did some googling, out of curiosity. About the only reference I could find was the Joe Q statement. And, it should be noted, he's not in charge of either the MCU, Marvel TV or the Netflix stuff.
This gives a good overview, I think:
How the Marvel Cinematic Universe Left Its TV Side Behind
Next month, the Marvel Cinematic Universe celebrates a grand achievement—just a week after the release of Avengers: Infinity War, it will have been 10 years since Iron Man hit theaters on May 2, 2008. Five years after Marvel effectively created its Cinematic Universe, the company’s TV division...
Basically, Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter are canon.
Netflix is not canon, or at best 'soft canon' as they don't specifically reference MCU stuff. (No Avengers Tower!)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Technically incorrect, a character from Agent Carter appeared in Endgame
- Location
- Los Angeles
Shit, I totally forgot. My point still stands with Agents of SHIELD though, especially since with its later and final seasons it started to diverge completely from the MCU.
- Location
- Dublin
The Netflix shows reference The Avengers film with the Battle of New York and later on in Jessica Jones season 2, the Raft prison shown in Civil War is mentioned. The Netflix shows are part of the MCU.Did some googling, out of curiosity. About the only reference I could find was the Joe Q statement. And, it should be noted, he's not in charge of either the MCU, Marvel TV or the Netflix stuff.
This gives a good overview, I think:
How the Marvel Cinematic Universe Left Its TV Side Behind
Next month, the Marvel Cinematic Universe celebrates a grand achievement—just a week after the release of Avengers: Infinity War, it will have been 10 years since Iron Man hit theaters on May 2, 2008. Five years after Marvel effectively created its Cinematic Universe, the company’s TV division...
Basically, Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter are canon.
Netflix is not canon, or at best 'soft canon' as they don't specifically reference MCU stuff. (No Avengers Tower!)
Shanejayell
Yuri Fan without a Pause
- Pronouns
- He
*shrug* Again, prove it.
I can say with some confidence that the Netflix Marvel shows will likely never be referenced in any other MCU media. It's dead, Jim.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You do realize that, by citing the times the Netflix series referenced the MCU, he is in fact proving it?
And it is now up to others to disprove it
Shanejayell
Yuri Fan without a Pause
- Pronouns
- He
Number of official statements from Kevin Feige, Disney, or Marvel saying that the Netflix shows are canon to the MCU: Zero.
Vague, non-specific references in the Netflix shows do not verify that they're actually in the MCU. *shrug* If it was set in Marvel NY, it'd show Avengers Tower, DD would team up with Spidey and Luke Cage would have been scouted for the Avengers and turned them down.
- Location
- Dublin
Plus the Judas Bullets introduced in Luke Cage season 1, appear in Agents of SHIELD season 4. We could show all the proof in the world to back us up and Shanejayell will still dispute it.
tankdrop24
Tread First into Hell
- Location
- The Center of the Universe: Toronto, Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Look, it's canon if you want them to be. Who cares?
- Location
- Mons Regius
- Pronouns
- He/Him
People are literally rehashing the exact same arguments from the previous pages and expecting a different result somehow, as if people will get convinced this time.
Something something insanity something something Einstein.
What has actually been proven is that (some of) the events of the MCU movies happen in (some of) the shows, while the events of the shows exist in a Shrödinger's Cat like way in the MCU movies, where they may or may have not happened.
I like the term "soft canon" that one post linked tho, it's pretty apt.
- Location
- Los Angeles
Its not up for dispute that the Netflix shows reference the MCU, everyone gets that. But the connections are frankly rather loose. They say "the battle of new york" or in one case mention "the guy with the hammer" but they don't say the word "Avengers". They'll only directly reference each other. Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter got a lot more leeway by virtue of being on ABC than the netflix shows, but aside from the appearance of Jarvis in Endgame, there's little connective tissue in the MCU itself
Frankly, I do believe that Marvel TV under Joe Quesada's leadership intended them to be within the canon of the mcu. However Kevin Fiege and Marvel Studios never seemed to have much respect for Marvel TV or Quesada. And then, as the deal between Disney and Netflix fell apart with Disney's ambitions to make their own streaming service, any intention to keep the two canon to each other faded. And now with Quesada out of power entirely, and with Marvel tv shows going in an entirely different direction now under Fiege's direct control, there seems to be little interest in referencing them again.
The final nail in the coffin is probably that Mahershala Ali, despite playing Cottonmouth in Luke Cage, was cast as Blade for some upcoming MCU film.
Of course none of this means we won't see those characters again, potentially even with the same actors in the role. After all, Jamie Foxx is coming back as Electro in the next Spider-man film. (Though I swear to god, if one of you makes the claim that the Amazing Spider-man movies are now marvel canon, I will hurt somebody.)
Shanejayell
Yuri Fan without a Pause
- Pronouns
- He
Because the 'evidence' you present isn't addressing the basic question. Do the main parts of the MCU overseen by Disney & Kevin Feige acknowledge the Netflix stuff as canon?
Best I can determine, no.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
How is that the basic question?
Should not the basic question be "Do these shows reference the MCU"
Look, I don't even agree with the guy, I just take issue with the way you're debating this. You're not disproving his evidence, you're arbitrarily declaring that his evidence doesn't count.
- Location
- Mons Regius
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Why should the question be "do these shows reference the MCU"?
The comic tie-ins do as well, and I will laugh at you if you tell me they are in any way canon.
The comic tie-ins do as well, and I will laugh at you if you tell me they are in any way canon.
Shanejayell
Yuri Fan without a Pause
- Pronouns
- He
Going by your argument, if Saturday Night Live references the Avengers in a skit, it's canon.
Any reasonable person: NO, it's not.
I rest my case.