- Location
- South Africa
Well, my point is that I believe a MG who wishes for something more powerful ends up more powerful. Not less.
Mami's Maisonette: Madoka Magica Megathread
- Thread starter UbeOne
- Start date
- Megathread
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
That means that you have to unalterably deiced who wished for the more powerful thing.
- Location
- South Africa
I have. Madoka did. If I am wrong about how it works, her wish makes no sense. The fat that it does work like that makes her wish brilliant.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
I think you meant "fact".
Not that it is fact, because it isn't, but you missed a C there.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
... And yet its generally agreed that Mami is the most powerful non-god girl yet her wish was relatively not that important compered to something like going back in time or making you dad brainwash people.
- Location
- South Africa
I don't agree with that, but it's irrelevant. Mami only makes one wish, so there is no evidence at all that she wouldn't be thousands of times more powerful with a more significant wish. As such, she isn't even a data point at all and bringing her up is a complete failure of logic and renders your argument an utterly worthless failure.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
So basically your basing your idea on Madoka the only girl that we see with multiple data points, or rather the only other person who we even have a chance to base this on is Sayaka due to the simple fact that we have the chance to see we possibly make multiple wishes, otherwise you cant argue anyone could be any more powerful with any other wish and thus you lack the data to confirm your guess, and is thus the failure of logic is on your head cause you cant use any of the girls, after all we only have 2 different wishes that is known from Madoka and thus we cant guess that her differenting wishes effect her total amount of power due to not knowing of any real correlation.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
We know that "wishing above your potential" is a thing that carries consequences, which to me implies that the exact same wish from two people with differing potentials will have different outcomes.
If Timeline 1 Madoka made the Godoka wish, I don't think it would have worked.
If Timeline 1 Madoka made the Godoka wish, I don't think it would have worked.
- Location
- South Africa
Nope. The failure of logic is not on my head as I'm the only one using data points that actually exist. You have zero data points. You're falsifying evidence by making up data points that never actually existed to support an idea made up out of thin air with zero evidence supporting it.
As suggested, I'm moving these here. "We think you should all become witches as soon as possible." He definitely did not do that to Mami and Kyouko in the witchverse, so yes, worse. In addition, he wants to go back to the witchverse purely for more energy despite the wraithverse being an improvement in every other way. As such, if we give him more options and he discovers a way to get more energy which screws us over even more, hes demonstrated willingness to do it.
Obviously it was worse from Kyuubey's perspective. I'm talking about worse from his victim's perspective. If Kyuubey gets more energy from you by inventing a more horrific torture to inflict upon you, obviously he's going to do it, because it's better from his perspective. That's my point. Also, his goal is open ended. As such, he'll never think that he has enough no matter how much you give him.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
sigh, you have 1 data point anyone can tell you that 1 data point is not enough evidence to support a theory, or rather the theory cannot be token seriously enough to be consider well seriously, but I think were both hitting walls here so shall we shelve this until one of us gets something else? cause arguments are starting to cycle for this.
- Location
- South Africa
No. I have 100 data points (okay. Just under that). That's the number of times she wished. You, however, have zero data points, which is even worse than one, so yes, your theory has no support at all.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
No, you have one data point. Madoka. Who we only see wish 2-3 times.
Madoka is, by the way, an invalid data point for the argument, because of other variables interfering heavily.
Last edited:
- Location
- South Africa
No. Each person is a number of data points equal to the number of times they wished - 1. As such, Madoka is many data points. People like Mami and Homura are zero.
Madoka does have variables, but the only important one is potential, and after the second timeline, she has more potential than the rest of the Universe added together, so from then on, it's too huge to matter.
Also, there's Sayaka, who also represents multiple data points as well. Now, she probably wished less often and had less variance in her wish, but there is implication that the exact nature of her wish varied with accompanying evidence that her powerlevel did not vary with that. You can claim that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but the fact is that if that were true, it would have been shown to us.
Finally, there's the ending, which utterly falsifies your claim. It wouldn't matter if you had an infinite amount of evidence (of which you have none), because a falsification is a falsification and completely disproves it. That ending would have never happened in the scenario you claim.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
You say that depending on the wish depends on how powerful a girl will be, you cant honestly say that a girl would be stronger or weaker depending on her wish if you only know of 1 wish that the person makes. thus they cant be data points for your idea, also we only know of 2 of Madoka's wishes, so you don't have enough evidence that her strength is dependent on her wish.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
... Hence why the number of data points being equal to X-1?
I mean, I agree with the rest of your post, but this part Sereg actually took into account.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
And yet he does not have enough information to base that Madoka overall power was greater because she made a 'greater wish' then everyone else in the show when he fails to answer and he outright admits to the fact that potential is the influencing factor to be considered why she was so powerful in the first place.
this however why on earth would the show have to show the lack of something, when it just needs to show what is there?
???
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Hence why the rest of your post was correct.
It's just a bit bad taste to correct your opponent on something they actually did, and often leads to needless escalations.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
If there has been needless escalations I will just simple say that he (and I) lack the necessary information and have already asked for the dissection to be shelved. The fact that he continued after I pointed this out and did not add any new information means that I will not play nice.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Sereg, you cannot call something a data point when you have no data on it. Which is exactly what you're doing in claiming that the loops all represent data points.
It does no such thing.
- Location
- South Africa
I never claimed that her power was greater than the other cast members because she made a greater wish. I'm claiming that if less powerful wishes resulted in more powerful magical girls, Madoka would have already fixed everything in timeline two. At the very least, in the timeline before the last, her wish was far less powerful than the final one, yet she did not instantly rip apart every quark in the Universe. What's more, it would mean that Madoka's final wish would have been "I wish for absolutely nothing." As that would have granted her all the power she could possibly gain and would mean she could easily fix every problem she wanted to use a wish to fix. The fact that she made a big wish in the end instead means that your hypothesis is impossible.
Exactly my point. If your idea that bigger wishes resulted in weaker girls were true, they would have had to show it, but they didn't, so it definitely is not true.
The ending of PMMM is completely impossible under the assumption that more powerful wishes result in weaker magical girls. If that were the case, Madoka would have not made a big wish.
I have plenty of data on all of them. In none of those loops did Madoka destroy the Universe. In fact, in the worst one (the most recent) it would have taken her the ludicrously long time of ten days to destroy a single, measly planet. that means that in every loop, Madoka's power was effectively zilch compared to that of her final one when she finally made a big wish.
Yes, it does. If stronger wishes resulted in weaker magical girls, the ending would not have been what it was. The fact that it is what it was means that that hypothesis is impossible.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
You do get that Post!Series Madoka cannot adequately be described as a "Magical Girl", right?
Saying that a wish of that level would've resulted in a weak Magical Girl due to using all the power on rewriting the universe isn't really relevant when you don't even have a Magical Girl in the end.
Saying that a wish of that level would've resulted in a weak Magical Girl due to using all the power on rewriting the universe isn't really relevant when you don't even have a Magical Girl in the end.
- Location
- South Africa
I don't accept that, but even if you do, it doesn't change the impotence of all the previous Madoka's.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Sereg, that's not the assumption being made. Potential is what determines your power, the wish just determines how that power is allocated. A bigger wish results in more power for the wish and wish magic,but less power for the rest, such as general magic and gem capacity.
No, you don't. Unless it was explicitly shown or stated, which it was not, then all you have is what you can infer from the fact that Homura continued looping.
The Universe is fuckhuge, Sereg, and you can't know that because Homura left.
That's not the hypothesis anyone is using, and that's still untrue, because Madokami A) is no longer a magical girl, and B) never uses any magical girl abilities other than her wish powers.
- Location
- South Africa
Ah. Now this aspect of the hypothesis was something I was unaware of. That is more believable.
Wrong. If I see a character, the fact that I haven't been explicitly shown or told that they weren't killed is irrelevant. I know because they're there. Homura wouldn't have been capable of looping otherwise Because she'd be dead or Madoka would have stopped her like in the final timeline.
The Universe is minuscule compared to what Madokami affected and Homura wouldn't be capable of leaving otherwise. She'd be dead or stopped.
Not true. Wraith arc has her use other magical abilities.