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Magna Graecia: Victory's Children (A City State Quest)

Reader mode
"We have made harpos King in all but name.
Snubbing him and denying simply for the sake of it, that is is how rebellion is seeded.
The most loyal of men will not suffer humiliation from his lord, just chastisement yes, but never humiliation. If the lord has to humiliate the servant to show his place, the message sent is that the lord fears the servant, for if he was truly secure in his power he would not act in so petty a manner.


As for the puekitii, they are our vassals. We expect of them tribute and men for war, yet they are too meagre as they are to provide much of either. Let them have one king, let them grow and prosper as a single people, and let us be Lords over them as such."


So says Miltiades the shepherd.
 
Ironanvil1 said:
The last lot of Illyrian pirates to attack us are still here - as our slaves, or at the bottom of the harbour. We annihilated a fifty ship fleet, with 30% of the ships we now have, and have spent the time since then with our warriors slaughtering all who come against us - I doubt any Illyrians think of us as an easy target.
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Arcus said:
And how are these magical Adriatic vikings suddenly going to pull an entire fleet out of thin air? They're still recovering from the blow Eusebios dealt them.
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Because of these quite disquieting reports:
Cetashwayo said:
The last suggestion is for Kallias to sail north to the Padanian Etruscan city of Atria far to the northern end of the Adriatic. News coming from the merchants there has been anxious and antsy; apparently the Enetoi have been decisively routed in a naval battle by the Liburnians, who have now formed a proper centralized league around the city of Iadar and gone on the war path. Rather than using their old pentekontors that have a single row of oars, there are even rumors that Iadar has thrice-decked triremes and is using them to harass shipping on the east coast of the Adriatic.
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Cetashwayo said:
is all bad; emboldened by their victories against the Enetoi, the Liburnians are now raiding greek colonies on the east coast of the Adriatic due to the Kerkyrans being distracted to the south and unable to rebuff them. In contrast to their earlier, more disorganized pirate raids, the Liburnians are now moving in packs of three to five ships at a time, usually organized by city and supported by larger packs of Pentekontors. The entire coast between the Pados River (Po River) and the Liburnian coast is dangerous to send merchant ships through, choking Etruscan trade. The only ships avoided by the Liburnians are the Korinthian ones, feared by all in the region for their naval forces.
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Reading them it seems to me that the Enetoi are already defeated, other polities too weak and especially that Iadar has at least 5 triremes. I think it might be prudent that they have or can very soon have a couple more. If our ships get into more static combat against the triremes, they will then quickly be swarmed by the smaller ships. I wouldn't count on that glorious victory in our past protecting us from all seaborne threats forever.

Even then, the colonies on the Gargano are undefended: this threat cannot be underestimated in my opinion: there is a window of danger while Kerkyra is occupied with Corinthos and our walls are not ready.

That said, I am still unconvinced that sending Kallias north can be useful: maybe pulling in Athens to deter Corinthos could help us convince Keryra to participate with a dozen ships to an expedition if war with the Peloponnesians has been avoided.
Finally, we really need Metapontion as an ally.

It's not an easy call.
 
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[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.

[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.

[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
 
[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].


Adhoc vote count started by Void Stalker on Sep 8, 2017 at 7:28 AM, finished with 907 posts and 38 votes.
  • [X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
    [X] We cannot simply lay low all our allies when we see fit for the sake of empowering one man. He is capable, it is true, but the people of Rhyps have done nothing to deserve being turned over, and their fear keeps them well in line. There is little fear of them turning away from us, so why give Harpos a further boon so quickly?
    [X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for theconstruction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a largerarea so that we may account forthe city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protectthe shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the SacredTreasury].
    [X] We need to extend the wall to cover a larger area, so that we may account for the city's growth and plan it in a more orderly fashion. [-270 talents will cover a larger area of the city, three turns to build].
    [X] We need to have the wall fortify the shore and harbour, so that we are protected against naval raids and assault. [-270 talents, wall will protect the shore and harbour, three turns to build].
    [X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.
    [X] Dispatch Kallias east to Hellas, in the face of growing Korinthian trade in the Adriatic and their needling of the Kerkyrans. If need be, get some kind of assurance that Athens will come to Eretria's aid if Korinthos goes to war, negating their naval advantage.
    [X] Dispatch Kallias north to Arimnus and then on foot throughout Padanian Etruria on the road to Atria to build allies against a potential Liburnian incursion, as they are growing bolder every year and could potentially strike at Eretria.
    [x] We need to thicken the wall to make it impervious to all comers and so that we may store grain in its cavities. [-270 talents, wall will be thicker and extend the ability's to hold out against siege for one year, three turns to build].
    [X] One King among the Peuketii, one steady hand to deal with, one whelp to crush. What do we care for the fears of the meek in the face of the strong? Harpos has shown himself an extremely capable ruler who is willing to rebuff the Dauni. We can find no such friends among the people of Rhyps, whose only advantage is they cower before us.
    [X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.
    [X] The wall must cover a larger area so we can plan for future growth, but it must also protect our shore and harbor against naval attacks. To fund the wall we withdraw funds from the Sacred Treasury, with the understanding that those funds are being used to cover a military emergency brought on by the presence of the Korinthoi threat and Liburnian piracy. [-320 Talents, including 33.3 from Sacred Treasury]
    [X] We need to build the wall right to begin with. Let us use the Sacred Treasury to build a wall that befits the glory of Eretria, grand enough to impress the whole world! Extend the wall over a large area, fortify the shore and harbour, and thicken it to store grains. [-370 talents, five turns to build].
    [X] USER MOTION - The Sacred Treasury shall be opened for the purpose of paying for a sea wall to be added to the chosen variant of stone wall in this one instance; any talents taken from the treasury shall be paid back into the treasury at a rate not less than 75 talents (or the remaining balance) a year on top of the 10% tithe from gross income.
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[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.

[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.

[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
 
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Yanez said:
Because of these quite disquieting reports:

Reading them it seems to me that the Enetoi are already defeated, other polities too weak and especially that Iadar has at least 5 triremes. I think it might be prudent that they have or can very soon have a couple more. If our ships get into more static combat against the triremes, they will then quickly be swarmed by the smaller ships. I wouldn't count on that glorious victory in our past protecting us from all seaborne threats forever.
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Notably, the region they're pirating in is to the North of the Liburnian territories, not the South. They're a serious concern, yes, but not necessarily an immediate one. Plus last time we sent a Xenoparakletor in that direction, he got a javelin through the neck.
 
[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].

[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.
 
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[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.

[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10%annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents,wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].


I think Metapontion is probably the least pressing of the three options. Taras is quiet and likely to remain so for a while, and if the Lucani haven't exacted revenge yet they're probably distracted by something else.

The idea of trying to put together a coalition to clear the Adriatic is intriguing, but I'm unsure of the odds of success. And after the victory it would probably exacerbate the rivalry for control of the markets of the region. Still, that may be a better problem than constant fear of a Liburnian sack hanging over us.
 
[X] We cannot simply lay low all our allies when we see fit for the sake of empowering one man. He is capable, it is true, but the people of Rhyps have done nothing to deserve being turned over, and their fear keeps them well in line. There is little fear of them turning away from us, so why give Harpos a further boon so quickly?

"I warned you! Didn't I warn you?" Dareios yelled over the assembly. "Give the barbarian a hand and he'll try to take your entire arm! We must put an end to this and remind Harpos of his true place, beneath us, before it's too late."

[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for theconstruction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a largerarea so that we may account forthe city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protectthe shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the SacredTreasury].

"The defence of our city is paramount. No expense should be spared to ensure this."
 
[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.

[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10%annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents,wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
 
[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.

[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.




[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
 
[X] USER MOTION (Ironanvil1): Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.
[X] Dispatch Kallias north to Arimnus and then on foot throughout Padanian Etruria on the road to Atria to build allies against a potential Liburnian incursion, as they are growing bolder every year and could potentially strike at Eretria.
[X] USER MOTION (Cavalier): We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].

...fuck it. A clear Adriatic would be amazing.
 
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[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.

[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.

[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
 
[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.

[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.

[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
 
[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.

[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.

[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
 
Bastianos speaks.

''It grieves me that guarantees were provided to barbaroii without prior agreement in the ekklesia. We ought to be more careful next time.

It's true that handing over Rhyps to Harpos seems like it would remove an immediately appealing incentive that Arpus could exploit if he were to seek the Peuketii's king aid in thwarting us. Yet, I feel that Harpos unjustly demands recompense for behaviour expected of a vassal. Because he sends us the head of a mere barbaroii message boy we should be impressed? I think not, but I digress.

An agreement can be reached whereas Harpos obtains what he wants and we ensure he does not plunge a Peuketii blade in our back anytime soon. We crown him king of the Peuketii, with ceremony and all, and obtain from him both a public oath of allegiance and a male child. Since he seems on good terms with Herodion, and the latter ought to take responsibility for bestowing false promises on hopeful and loyal vassals, the child would be in his care, to be taught the Greek ways. Furthermore, if our forces need to mobilise, that child will not follow either Herodion or his father, but instead remain in the polis, where we will evidently treat him with the utmost care. This course of action will contribute immensely to the continued peace and prosperity of our peoples.

And to further secure the Eretrian peace, I vote that we not be miserly about our fortifications. Yes, good points have been brought before us as to why we shouldn't invest in this or that, but each of these arguments miss the primary reason to build a wall - to defend ourselves against besiegers. Perhaps holding grain within the towers of our walls is not ideal, but being besieged is not ideal in the first place. Better live throughout the siege than die like starving dogs in a fen. For a mere additional fifty talents, I fail to see why we shouldn't invest in this. And we knew building this wall would be a serious investment. A serious investment of monies, men and time. What is the problem with an additional year of labour if the city is to be made eternal? I suggest we enlarge the area protected by our walls to allow for safe construction of future infrastructures; thicken the walls; and protect our harbour.

And of our foreign enterprises we should remember not to spread ourselves too thin. Athens is far away and busy with its own problems, thus she is unlikely to actually help us in any significant way should we be in need of her. The Adriatic undergoes developments that are of major concerns, but there's probably little that can be done at this very moment to change the situation. It is, and I hate to admit it, but entirely out of our control. Our influence in this matter is limited. Though, with firm control over vassals, the Daunii silent and Metapontion on the periphery of an upcoming upheaval, we can easily secure an alliance. That is where our efforts should be focused. Every time we get something, it becomes easier to get another. The Adriatic problem will be dealt with in due time, when we have the resources for it. Our isolation problem can be remedied now, because we have the resources for it. The time is ripe, let's send Kallias to Metapontion.''



[X] USER MOTION (Ironanvil1): Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.

@Cetashwayo the above USER MOTION does not expressly say which child we will take, nor does it say that he should not follow Herodion and/or Harpos if we mobilise our forces. Are such things implied or must we make them explicit?

[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.

[X] USER MOTION (Han Empire) We need to build the wall right to begin with. Let us use the Sacred Treasury to build a wall that befits the glory of Eretria, grand enough to impress the whole world! Extend the wall over a large area, fortify the shore and harbour, and thicken it to store grains. [-370 talents, five turns to build]
 
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Fuckit, greed it is.


[X] We need to build the wall right to begin with. Let us use the Sacred Treasury to build a wall that befits the glory of Eretria, grand enough to impress the whole world! Extend the wall over a large area, fortify the shore and harbour, and thicken it to store grains. [-370 talents, five turns to build].
 
[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.

[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.

[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].

"I, Alexandrios of the best men, hereby give my vote for these motions passed by the ekklesia and willing to pay the costs associated therein. So say we all."
 
all the way

[X] We need to build the wall right to begin with. Let us use the Sacred Treasury to build a wall that befits the glory of Eretria, grand enough to impress the whole world! Extend the wall over a large area, fortify the shore and harbour, and thicken it to store grains. [-370 talents, five turns to build].
 
Screw it.

[X] We need to build the wall right to begin with. Let us use the Sacred Treasury to build a wall that befits the glory of Eretria, grand enough to impress the whole world! Extend the wall over a large area, fortify the shore and harbour, and thicken it to store grains. [-370 talents, five turns to build]
 
[X] We need to build the wall right to begin with. Let us use the Sacred Treasury to build a wall that befits the glory of Eretria, grand enough to impress the whole world! Extend the wall over a large area, fortify the shore and harbour, and thicken it to store grains. [-370 talents, five turns to build].
 
Rex Romulus said:
And to further secure the Eretrian peace, I vote that we not be miserly about our fortifications. Yes, good points have been brought before us as to why we shouldn't invest in this or that, but each of these arguments miss the primary reason to build a wall - to defend ourselves against besiegers. Perhaps holding grain within the towers of our walls is not ideal, but being besieged is not ideal in the first place. Better live throughout the siege than die like starving dogs in a fen. For a mere additional fifty talents, I fail to see why we shouldn't invest in this. And we knew building this wall would be a serious investment. A serious investment of monies, men and time. What is the problem with an additional year of labour if the city is to be made eternal? I suggest we enlarge the area protected by our walls to allow for safe construction of future infrastructures; thicken the walls; and protect our harbour.
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Because I don't know of any walls that was eternal. They were always expanded in phases, and future Eretria's ambitions need to be balanced against current Eretria's vulnerabilities.


More to the point, we can already withstand a two year siege. Being able to withstand a three year one is a relatively marginal increase in light of the cost - not the talents, but the time. A half-finished wall is worthless.
 
Van Ropen said:
Because I don't know of any walls that was eternal. They were always expanded in phases, and future Eretria's ambitions need to be balanced against current Eretria's vulnerabilities.


More to the point, we can already withstand a two year siege. Being able to withstand a three year one is a relatively marginal increase in light of the cost - not the talents, but the time. A half-finished wall is worthless.
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That was public speaking, not reasonable modern thought supported by millennia of amassed knowledge.

I understand your concern for time, but I think you underestimate Eretria as it currently stands and overestimate everyone that could have an interest in us as they currently stand. With Harpos solid on the Peuketii throne and under our command, publicly declared friendship with Metapontion, perhaps even an alliance, all our successes to date and the wall construction going on its merry way, it's possible we're going to have a peaceful five years ahead of us. If we play our cards right, the only threat will come from the sea, and remember a sea incursion into Eretria would have to eventually land its forces, where we're likely to prevail (But that's supposition over supposition over even more supposition).

I guess what I'm trying to say is, let's not be alarmists. There will be unforeseen developments all around us for sure, but with a steady hand we can achieve what we set out to do, build the wall, and come out the other end unscathed and ready to dominate. More than we ever were. Plus, if we keep calm, it's the others around us who are likely to make mistakes.
 
[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.

[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.

[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
 
[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.

[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.

[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
 
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