Well, we already had @McLuvin's write-In [Turn 21]:
[] Herodion's Cavalry Veterans, his 'Kleos Exoria' (Ancient Greek for honoured exiles), will teach the cavalrymen of Eretria the skills they have learned from their 10 years ahorse in battle. [-10 Aristocratic opinion]. 34 Votes.
A continuous training routine would probably cost x talents/year and, especially if you plan to include the Peuketii, a not insignificant amount of Civic tradition.
Personally, I would wait with any action in that regard until this war is over. Being led by Herodion on this multi-year long campaign will surely lead to a noticeable improvement in our aristocratic cavalry by itself.
Indeed. It'd be nice if we could replenish our elite cavalry.
Maybe make a vote when we let Herodion do further military reforms where all Cavalrymen in the city have to be trained by the Kleos Exoria for a whole day once per week? Like the British had to train with their Longbows. Spread the elitism and make the Aristocratic cavalry way more useful. Who knows, eventually our entire Cavalry contingent might become nearly as elite as our Exorian cav.
What do you think? Should we try that next time we get a chance?
I'll agree with @Spacegnom for now in that that we should see how the campaign shapes them. I was thinking we should work on our hoplites instead. We need to run them through some of the exercises the ekdromoi perform so as to harden them against breaking like their less armored brothers.
Yeah, but 20% of our merc professionals were casualties though. I hope this campaign doesn't mulch them before Herodion gets to work his magic. That experience he's got is worth several talents.
I think that It's a good idea To increase our shock cavalry. It's something who is not very know by greeks so it will give us an advantage against them. If we make contact with gaulish tribes maybe that we could discover saddles too.
[X] The Gods themselves, who saw it fit to dispatch Ares to cut Antipater down for their own purposes [-10 Civic Tradition for five years, the Gods see something wrong with our great city]. Number of voters: 33
[X] Metapontion, who was unwilling to aid Eretria's best man in his time of need [Metapontion will take this as an insult, and although it will not break the alliance, relations will be strained]. Number of voters: 17
The Eretrians wept and brayed and shouted, but at last it was accepted among them that the Gods had cost them the great Antipater, the giant in their midst, with courage like the greatest Akhaians, with his brash speech and uncompromising will. All wondered at what had transpired for the Gods to strike him down. What had the city done to arouse their ire? They loved the Divine Marriage with all their hearts, they did all the supplications to Apollo and Artemis. Some suggested that perhaps they had not paid enough heed to Demeter and Poseidon. Demeter was the goddess of marriage, and it was suggested that she had helped plan the marriage of Apollon and Athene, so for the city to neglect her would mean neglecting the Divine Marriage. This logic was much taken by the people, who were told by Pydamon to take a bushel of wheat and a basket of figs, and to burn them for the sake of Demeter, to acknowledge the harvest even in this distant land of Rhegion.
For Poseidon it was taken a small amount of soil and a small amount of water, mixed into a slurry, and slapped across the rump of a mighty ox provided by Rhegion's regent Mikythos. The ox was then sacrificed and its flesh shared evenly among the citizens of the three cities. The Metapontines ate alone, much divided and much hurt by warfare, whilst the Rhegionites were proud and haughty, and ate their share with great excitement, for such meat had been unknown to them. Many were shocked to find out how little meat the Eretrians ate, and they laughed in the face of the citizens who said they only had the meat of an ox three times a year, for in Rhegion they ate it five or even six times. There was much consternation among the citizens of Eretria to discover the riches of their fellows, and they were further disturbed upon seeing the strong-built houses and great walls of Rhegion. For although the city was hardly the finest in all of Italy and Sicily, it was so much prouder and cleaner and nicer than that of Eretria, and the wealth flowed all the more freely.
It was one of the newer men, a young one, who had been born in the early years of the city and had never known anything but "Eskhata", that new Eretria that had been so desperately built, who spoke up. His name was Obander, a strange name for a Greek, which he had gained possibly from his father, who had been an Illyrian slave freed at landing. With him were the "bull runners", a group of energetic boys who had come of age only two or three years prior, and whose energy the city could hardly contain, so called for their interest and expertise in running bulls. Obander took a stand on a large boulder and spoke to the city, at first only to a few dozen, but then to the whole of the army. He spoke, and he spoke, and he spoke, and he spoke for six hours, so that the whole city was enraptured. And they called him "dreamer", for Obander told them what he thought the city should be, what he thought the Gods thought, and what ought to be done. Many smiled and nodded, appreciating the vigor of youth, and then went back to prepare for war. But others were enraptured, and when his compatriot Akakios replaced him and sang before the city, they were shaken by the haunting melody of his voice. Akakios and Obander told the tale of an Eretria that was not yet- a naval power, a hegemon, a wealthy city that they could all take pride in and appreciate, a city of beauty and love. It was an extraordinary speech, made all the more so because like most speeches it was not recorded, and so all that heard it insisted it had been the best they had ever heard, and no one could doubt or dispute them.
But Obander and Akakios would be disappointed, if they sought to demonstrate their excellence before the city, because Herodion ignored their speech and their skill in battle (both had distinguished themselves with valor at the battle) and instead appointed one of his friends and fellows as the deputy strategos. This caused much consternation among the youth, who asked why the young were closed off from the positions of power, but Herodion shrugged and said that making war was the provision of the young, but planning war the old. Obander challenged Herodion to a war of words, but Herodion did not answer him, for the young man had overstepped his bounds and challenged a man far beyond his stature, a mistake for which he soon apologized, acknowledging the skill of Herodion even as he refused to yield entirely to the older man's arete.
But this was politics, and politics and war did not mix well. Such was the case with the Metapontines, where few could accept the stature of the others. A new demokratia, confused and frustrated by an economic crisis from the fleeing of aristocrats and split between the ambitions of many new men, the people of Metapontion had been deeply wounded by the losses of the battle. They soon came to pick up their dead, as did the men of Krotone and Lokri Epixephyrii, but there was trouble in the Metapontine camp. Their commander, Lykos, was called to task, and it seemed that the generals and the Proboulos might soon take drastic measures to oust him from his post for the casualties they took and for his "unimpressive manner".
Lykos came to Herodion and the city of Eretria and begged them to help him. Herodion, by virtue of his victory, had the respect of the Metapontine citizens and the people of Rhegion, and together they could put pressure on the Metapontine generals to end the political games. But Obander, sharp Obander, who had found his confidence in his earlier speeches and his first battle, asked Lykos why he wants Eretria to stand for him when the Metapontines would not fall for Eretria when they were called to help during battle. Lykos was much flustered by this outspoken youth, but rebuked him justly, by saying that it was not the fault of Metapontion that Eretria's finest fell, but the fault of the Gods, and although it was true that there was trouble in their ranks, this trouble would be solved if only Eretria would help him. And so Herodion placed the question of such support to the ekklesia, a final vote before they returned home for the winter.
Should Herodion lend his influential support behind the Metapontine strategos Lykos?
[] Yes, he is a trusted and friendly face among the Metapontines. No other general is so supportive of Eretria, even if it for self-serving purposes.
[] No, he is a weakling who cannot hold his post among his fellows. Better a strong man who does not like Eretria than a weak one who does.
During the winter the city of Eretria returned home. Antipater was given a great funeral, and although he had no sons, his daughter was present. Although in the manner of the women of Eretria should could hardly be allowed to speak, her silent pride and sorrow impressed many, and Isidora was praised for her great filial piety. A political ally of his, the hoplite Hypsenor, was the one to give the eulogy, a short and laconic thing, in the manner of Drako, but brash and energetic, ending on a great outpouring of grief by the farmers. Antipater was remembered as a man who loved Greeks and was loved by them, who knew so well the Iliad that all were impressed with his knowledge, who knew the myths and stories like a seer, who had always spoken well of Greeks and of the good farmer. He was buried outside the city, near the great Ambrosios, who had helped bring the city to Italia. It was at this point, however, that it was proposed that the city truly ensure that the city's heroes be taken care of by establishing a proper Cemetery of Heroes, for the best men of the city. It was proposed by Hypsenor, but it is rumored that it was Isidora that suggested it, for it was known that many of the women of Eretria had stood behind their husbands and fathers and written their speeches and proposals. It was a disconcerting fact for the old, but many accepted this as fact, for any who argued that the women of Eretria should stay at all times indoors had forgotten how bravely the women had chased away the Peuketii in the very first year of the city. Although no man except the mad would suggest that women should be allowed to speak, or that they be given the freedom of Sparta's, neither could their importance be forgotten.
And so during the winter months there was a major discussion on whether the city should provide a space for the city's heroes to celebrate them. This was quite apart from the large tombs of aristocrats or the humble tombs of the poor, but instead a place where the best of the city, in separation from much Greek practice, could be placed. There was a great deal of controversy, for although all agreed that Ambrosios and Antipater were worth remembering, to place them in a separate cemetery above the others frayed at the edges of the city's consummate equality. Drako and Herodion both spoke for it, but again, Obander took the stage and shook it, angering many of the older men of the city in his arguments that the dead must stay dead so that the living can thrive. He was asked if this was the case with fair Akhilles, or fair Hektor, but again he said that the dead must die. For many this was an outrage, but Obander stood his ground, and even his opponents were impressed with the firmness of his manner and clearness of speech, even if he made many enemies in the city by his arguments. And yet Obander accepted, in the end, that there was a place for the dead who buttressed the city's living. It was however, up to the ekklesia to decide how firmly they wished to agree to this principle.
Should the greatest heroes of Eretria Eskhata be interred separately from the other citizens?
[] All have a place in Eretria, and we must not worship the dead. There cannot be any discrimination in the graves of the dead beyond the wealth of the individual.
[] Heroes great and small have played a role in Eretria. We must not forget them by letting their graves be forgotten, and encourage future heroes to rise up.
After planting season ended the city once again marched to war. Drako and those who stayed behind bid the men good tidings, even as many of the wounded had retired, replaced by hale and healthy men to bolster the campaign. However, the winter months had not been unproductive. The walls continued their long construction, and it was estimated that after two more years yet they would be finished. Arpus and the Liburni were quiet during the winter, but there was a new, grave concern. Rumors had begun to filter into Eretria through the proxenos of Metapontion that Korinthians had been up to something. A message from Leontios, called Alepous in Lykai and the leader of that city, informed Eretria of a potential conspiracy and advised that the city must investigate rumors of Korinthian ships in both Arpi (among the Dauni) and Taras. He did not know the contents of the conspiracy, but advised the city dispatch Kallias post-haste to Lykai so they can coordinate discovering what was happening.
However, there were other troubles as well. Both Krotone and Lokri Epixephyrii had been terribly defeated at the Battle of Rhegion and shocked by the Eretrians, who had become the pride of Italia, and for whom rumors of their brutality and skill were ranging far and wide in the west. Mikythos of Rhegion suggested that they could split Krotone from Lokri by offering it peace for the sake of Temesa, a Krotonian city that had been seized by the Lokrians only a few years prior. However, to do so required an innate diplomatic touch, and the Krotonians would not accept anyone from Metapontion and Rhegion, both of whom they had fought quite hard in previous years. Eretria, however, was a new player, and had surprised them heartily, and so they sought to appreciate the arete of its diplomats and investigate the possibility of terms. The city could of course send someone other than Kallias, but then they were less likely to get the good terms desired, and the negotiations might fall out all together, forcing Krotone back to war. If the city wished to dismantle Krotone, it could do so, thereby sabotaging the chances of peace and provoking them back to war. Certainly, Rhegion and Metapontion were undoubtedly concerned about the idea of an easy peace for the Krotonians, for in the long run a strong Krotone could heavily endanger them.
Still other problems abounded. In Sicily, the defeat of the Sikeliote League and Himera boded badly for the Ionians, and Phaleron of Syrakousai was proving an able and dangerous commander, not as capable or as vain as Hiero or Gelo, but skilled nonetheless. It was proposed that they should dispatch Kallias to Sicily to convince Gela, Akragas and Selinous to make common cause against Syrakousai, for a success against the Ionians would surely result in catastrophe for them as well. Another possibility was the Phoenician cities, for although Carthage, who owned dominion over Motya and Panormos, controlled them, they had independent leaders and councils, with whom it was possible to deal with. They had their own stocks of wealth, and so if Kallias was dispatched to Motya he could convince the Phoenician cities to devote their own mercenary armies and fleets to break Syrakousai. However, to do so would certainly trouble and alienate some of the Sicilian Greeks, and potentially strengthen the hand of Carthage in Sicily, something that would bring fear to some of the cities of the Sicilians, to be sure.
But all these options could only be handled one at a time. If the city did not send Kallias to Lykai, Leontios would have to make decisions on his own on what to do, and Eretria would be excluded from information he gathered unless he wished to pass it on. If the city did not send Kallias to Krotone, the war would be delayed in Italia, for it was likely that the Krotonians would keep fighting until they were forced to surrender along with Lokri, meaning another year of campaigning and the inability of Herodion to cross the straits of Messana and confront Syrakousai. If Kallias was not sent to the Sicilian Greek cities it unlikely they could be swayed to Eretria, and indeed they may join Syrakousai, further endangering Himera and the Sikeliotes. And if he was not sent to the Phoenicians, they would no doubt continue to ignore the situation in Eastern Sicily, caring little for the wars among Greeks.
It had to be decided. To go to Lykai meant ensuring protection on the home front. To go to Krotone meant a faster exit from Italia. To go to Greek Sicily would mean more allies and greater numbers against Syrakousai, and to go to the Phoenicians would mean new wealth and ships lent to the Ionian Alliance, not to mention mercenaries. It was up to the city to decide where to send Kallias.
Where should Kallias be sent for this year?
[] Kallias should be sent to Lykai to investigate rumors of a Korinthian Conspiracy against Eretria Eskhata potentially involving the Tarentines, Liburni, and Dauni.
[] Kallias should be sent to Krotone to make common cause with the Krotonians, who despite the brutality of the Greeks see opportunity in betraying their longtime rivals the Lokrians and regaining some measure of face.
[] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
[] Kallias should be sent to the Phoenician cities to gain fleets, mercenaries and wealth beyond Greek imagining, to be levied against Syrakousai.
Voting is open immediately and will last least one day.
Ignore the chance of success thing on the Korinthian conspiracy vote, that was something I decided not to put in and it accidentally stayed in the final draft.
Huh. Not sure on the tomb choice, but I think we should support Lykos, weak as he is.
As for the diplomats, could we, say, appoint one of the Exoria to go to the Carthaginian cities, given their familiarity, or otherwise appoint deputies to handle those areas Kallias can't.
As for the diplomats, could we, say, appoint one of the Exoria to go to the Carthaginian cities, given their familiarity, or otherwise appoint deputies?
I originally thought about it, but in reality the Phoenician cities themselves (as opposed to Carthage and the King of Carthage) are unlikely to be anymore receptive to those who previously served as mercenaries for them than they are to a distinguished diplomat.
Preliminary leaning strongly against appealing to the Carthaginians. Aside from that I think keeping the fight going in Sicily is probably the most important choice for the war, but a Corinthian conspiracy involving the Dauni, Liburni, and Taras is very worrisome.
Though granted Corinth has strength enough to break us itself without Kerkyran aid. But then using proxies is one way to keep us from mashing the "Athens" button.
Ugh, I really don't have a good feeling as far as the present situation is concerned.
I'd say we support Lykos as, in the present circumstances, it essentially mean making Herodion the defacto Strategos of the Ionians in Italia. I'd go against the idea of a Pantheon, we are a democracy and no greater honour to the deads then simply be buried as citizens of Eretria they're should be.
Now, the diplomacy is a bit of a pickle. Despite our recent victory we are loosing the war but, at the same time, shadows of some old ennemies are lingering in our back.
At the end of the day I'd advocate sending Kallias to either Lykai to discover what's afoot or to Korinthos to prevent it by reconcile with the Korinthians. As much as we now have stakes in events further south the alleged conspiracy might speel utter doom on Eretria herself so its the priority (we might even have a write-in here to have Kallias keep going toward Athens after Korinthos to secure their support in case of emergency).
No matter what Carthage should only be called in if we really have no other choices. Calling Barbaroi to our help against fellow greeks would send our reputation to the abyss.
Just to clarify things: Which option are our allies worried about concerned about? 'sabotaging the peace' OR 'Forcing Lokris to cede Temesa to Krotone'
At first the position of this sentence made me think they are worried about the former. But, I suspect it is the latter.
At the end of the day I'd advocate sending Kallias to either Lykai to discover what's afoot or to Korinthos to prevent it by reconcile with the Korinthians. As much as we now have stakes in events further south the alleged conspiracy might speel utter doom on Eretria herself so its the priority.
Just to clarify things: Which option are our allies worried about concerned about? 'sabotaging the peace' OR 'Forcing Lokris to cede Temesa to Krotone'
At first the position of this sentence made me think they are worried about the former. But, I suspect it is the latter.
[X] No, he is a weakling who cannot hold his post among his fellows. Better a strong man who does not like Eretria than a weak one who does.
[X] Heroes great and small have played a role in Eretria. We must not forget them by letting their graves be forgotten, and encourage future heroes to rise up.
[X] Kallias should be sent to Lykai to investigate rumors of a Korinthian Conspiracy against Eretria Eskhata potentially involving the Tarentines, Liburni, and Dauni.
I believe a weakling is just going to get displaced as soon as we go home, by someone who'd define themselves by NOT being Lykos.
Which leaves us with a strongman who actively dislikes us rather than someone who doesn't care.
As for better graves, what better way for a man to be driven to the pursuit of Arete, but that those who come after may remember and pursue that same glory?
As for Kallias, Ares striking a blow against Antipater is a warning, even in victory and greatness, look to defend yourself. No greater flaw than a weakness open and unguarded
IF we don't pick either Krotone or the Greek Sicilian cities, then Syracuse is very likely to win on the 'Sicilian-front' this year. I'm not saying that means we need to pick either of these locations over Lykai, it is just something we should keep in mind.
I, personally, would be okay with Syracuse reconquering it's 'empire'. I would rather pick Lykai this turn, weaken Krotone with another year of war, and then make peace with Syracuse after they have reconquered the Ionian cities before we could aid them. This will still bind Metapontion closer to us (the main OoC reason we went into this war) and allow us to lift the curtain on this Korinthian Conspiracy.
[X] Yes, he is a trusted and friendly face among the Metapontines. No other general is so supportive of Eretria, even if it for self-serving purposes.
[X] Heroes great and small have played a role in Eretria. We must not forget them by letting their graves be forgotten, and encourage future heroes to rise up.
[X] Kallias should be sent to Lykai to investigate rumors of a Korinthian Conspiracy against Eretria Eskhata potentially involving the Tarentines, Liburni, and Dauni.
Note: The slightly xenophobic rhetoric in this post does not represent my IRL views on foreigners. I'm just roleplaying.
[X] Yes, he is a trusted and friendly face among the Metapontines. No other general is so supportive of Eretria, even if it for self-serving purposes.
In these times of strife, when war has engulfed Hellenic Italia, what Eretria needs most of all are allies. Eighteen years ago, our city fought with the Metapontines to ensure our safety against the barbaroi that threatened it. Now, we again fight together against a mighty enemy - one of the mightiest cities in the Hellenic world. And once this enemy is defeated, will we not continue to be surrounded by threats? The Danui? The Illyrians? The Lucani? If we make Metapontion, a major city in Italia, a reliable ally, it will do much to ensure the safety of our fair city.
[X] Heroes great and small have played a role in Eretria. We must not forget them by letting their graves be forgotten, and encourage future heroes to rise up.
I have spoken to many foreign visitors in the city, and many of them are quite... dismissive of our culture. They say that we are a cultural void, only a step up from the barbaroi that surround us. We must remedy this. The establishment of a Mausoleum of Heroes will help us develop a stronger cultural identity and tradition. The veneration of our heroes will give future Eretrians role models to take after. And consider the nature of our current burials: a rich man who only languished in luxury will be buried in a splendid grave, while a poorer man who did much in service to Eretria will be interred in a poorer grave? Is this truly just? Should mere wealth determine the honor we give to our dead? By showing our heroes special respect by burying them in a Mausoleum of Heroes, we demonstrate that any Eretrian who aids their mother city will shown respect in death, no matter their wealth.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
Let us consider the four options we have before us:
The barbaroi conspiracy is troubling, but it is not immediate. Remember that we are faced now with war, and need allies immediately. Krotone, while promising, has already faced our might and may not be willing to ally with their former enemies, in addition to the cultural gulf between them and us Ionians. Phoenicia is rich with both wealth and power, but a dependence on them will only strengthen Carthage and weaken the Hellenes of Sicily in the long run. Therefore, our best course of action is to attempt an alliance with the Hellene states of Sicily, who may not hold a grudge against us or threaten the long-term prospects of Hellenes in Sicily.
[X] Yes, he is a trusted and friendly face among the Metapontines. No other general is so supportive of Eretria, even if it for self-serving purposes.
[X] Heroes great and small have played a role in Eretria. We must not forget them by letting their graves be forgotten, and encourage future heroes to rise up.
[X] Kallias should be sent to Lykai to investigate rumors of a Korinthian Conspiracy againstEretria Eskhata potentially involving theTarentines, Liburni, and Dauni.
