Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Well, uh, it was enough of an issue that Gelo and Hiero waged a war of ethnic cleansing against Ionians even after the Dorian and Ionian division had faded on the mainland.
Magna Graecia: Victory's Children (A City State Quest)
- Thread starter Cetashwayo
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Well, uh, it was enough of an issue that Gelo and Hiero waged a war of ethnic cleansing against Ionians even after the Dorian and Ionian division had faded on the mainland.
- Location
- Vicksburg, MS
[X] Place Ostaron back on his throne, restoring the alliance with Gnatia.
[X] Write-in: Immediately provide 50 talents to Harpos. This is understood to be an advance on his share of the spoils of war.
[X] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
Vote change. Hopefully this will all turn out fine.
[X] Write-in: Immediately provide 50 talents to Harpos. This is understood to be an advance on his share of the spoils of war.
[X] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
Vote change. Hopefully this will all turn out fine.
bookwyrm
Doom of Public Libraries
- Location
- Wichita, Kansas
[X] Place Ostaron back on his throne, restoring the alliance with Gnatia.
[X] Write-in: Immediately provide 50 talents to Harpos. This is understood to be an advance on his share of the spoils of war.
[X] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
[X] Write-in: Immediately provide 50 talents to Harpos. This is understood to be an advance on his share of the spoils of war.
[X] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
311 OL, Turn 26: Delicate Manuevers
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
311 OL: Delicate Manuevers
[X] Place Ostaron back on his throne, restoring the alliance with Gnatia.
Number of voters: 25
[X] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
Number of voters: 31
[X] Write-in: Immediately provide 50 talents to Harpos. This is understood to be an advance on his share of the spoils of war.
Number of voters: 27
Number of voters: 25
[X] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
Number of voters: 31
[X] Write-in: Immediately provide 50 talents to Harpos. This is understood to be an advance on his share of the spoils of war.
Number of voters: 27
A host was assembled that immediately embarked from Eretria, racing southeast along the coastal road and towards the town of Gnatia. Stout and small, Gnatia was a settlement of some importance to the Adriatic trade, and had grown much thanks to the expansion of that trade. Still, however, it had only perhaps 3,000 inhabitants, and their loyalties were divided. And what is such a small trifle of a town compared to the mighty of a great and terrible city? The gates were opened at night by partisans of Ostaron, and Herodion, who led the offensive, soon was able to seize the high akropolis of the city. There was great consternation from the local notables about the idea of the Eretrians breaking in so easily, but many had been afraid of Arsenon, who himself had been captured after a short fight on the Akropolis between the groups of partisans. Not very popular, unable to convince the locals of the need for alliance with the Messapii, and angering the Eretrians, Arsenon was allowed by Ostaron to fall on his own sword. Ostaron characterized him as a man who hated men and a terrible ruler, but he was still his brother and so he wept (reportedly) for a day afterwards. Herodion confirmed the receipt of a new alliance between the two cities, represented by the hewing of a stone from Gnatia to be brought to Eretria with the alliance carved into it in Greek, and then he departed.
It had been something of a strange expedition. The Eretrians despised kings in all their forms, but here they had played a part in royal games and replaced one king with another. Some wondered whether they ought to have done so at all, but the young and the elders spoke at length, and it was generally agreed that this was the Eretrian way of dealing with trouble. The Gnatians had been long friends with Eretria, their king a lover of Greeks, and they ought to have returned the favor and support without putting them to the yoke as the Peuketii or else punishing them severely. It was simply agreed upon that to do would have been an unacceptable affront to the idea of Eretria's dominion, and although many, such as Drako, spoke eloquently in favor of an aggressive push to seize the empty northwest lands, a far different decision was taken. Instead of being undercut by Eretria, the city would open its coffers to Daxtus. He accepted the offer with some surprise and some glee, saying it affirmed the bonds of Artemis that tied Eretria to the Messapii. Harpos was very frustrated until he visited upon an enormous pile of silver, some fifty talents worth, as a gift. Although he spoke at length about the need for the northwest and the restoration of the Peuketii, the distribution of such loot among his chiefs and riders was an enormous boon, especially upon the expectation of even higher payment in the future.
It was thus that Harpos was satisfied and Daxtus, who had relied upon the other Messapii chiefs for revenues and contributions, was untethered from them thanks to the strategic need of Eretria to block Taras. Some had argued against the subsidization of a barbaroi, but all were afraid of what would happen should Taras destroy the Messapii and degrade them to a tributary. It would likely unleash untold suffering on Epulia so soon as Taras got the chance, for its people were many, and strong, and would destroy Eretria if given only the chance. It was thus that Eretria was forced into a precarious position of supporting a former enemy against a former ally, but such was the world. Allies were fleeting and enemies many, and so the shifting of allegiances was the only way to survive.
However, how far to go would become a major question when the city was informed by Leontios of Lykai that the Korinthians were involved. For several months they had been quietly moving warships to Taras to avoid detection and dodge the Kerkyrans, who patrolled the Bay of Patras in constant competition with their mother colony. The goal, Leontios suggested, was Brention. The town had already been attacked before by Eusebios, and now it was seen as a prize for Taras and Korinthos. The plan, as he told Eretria through his messenger, was that the Korinthians and Tarentines would use overwhelming naval force to take and sack the town, building a new polis in its place as a base of operations in the Adriatic and a dangerous threat to Eretria's independence and safety. With a major harbour under Korinthian control two or three days from Eretria, the city would be in mortal danger.
But there was only one option if they wanted to stop this. Eusebios would have to deploy his triremes to save the Barbaroi town he had previously despoiled. The locals would be hostile but not unrelentingly so; Daxtus would make them understand. What remained, however, was the dangerous of escalation. On the one hand lay the potential of a Korinthian naval base in the Adriatic only precious days from Eretria. On the other hand, to confront the Korinthian triremes, even with the skilled hand of Eusebios, could both provoke war and lead to the destruction of Eretria's fleet. Eusebios believed he could do it; the narrow harbor of Brention allowed for an approach to the battle that favored smaller numbers of ships. However, the city would have to believe both in his naval skill and in the hope that they could deter Korinthos, not make war against it. In a sense, it was a question of whether allowing a Korinthian presence in the Adriatic now was acceptable, or whether they could force the issue and decisively prevent any expansionism. Although actual war with Korinthos was unlikely, the standoff it would produce would make it far more inevitable.
The question was left to the city. Herodion and Drako warned about escalating a war. Obander suggested that if they do not stop Korinthos here, they could strike at any time. It was a dangerous situation and required delicate handling. All trusted fair, strong Eusebios, a simple man with a brilliant eye to naval warfare, but it was a matter of diplomacy just as well as seamanship. Daxtus had used some of the talents to fortify the harbor of Brention, but it was still going to be a close thing.
Should the city send its triremes (10 triremes) south to Brention to prevent a Korinthian seizure of the town?
[] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
[] We cannot afford to send them.
At last Krotone and Lokri had been brought low. With the coming of spring, the gates of the cities did not open once more with the hollering and shouting of their vast citizen armies, but instead with the quiet footsteps of wary messengers, sent to deliberate with the camps of the Eretrians and their allies. The Lokrians and Krotonians sent separate delegations, representing the division between the two cities, and presented different terms. The Krotonians offered to concede defeat and exit the conflict in exchange for a cash indemnity, and the Lokrians offered much the same, but also suggested that the allies attempt to undercut the Krotonians by depriving them of control of Terina. The city had been an important point for the Krotonians to dispute Lokri Epixephyrii in the Tyrrhenian sea and a point of much contention. The Krotonians, meanwhile, suggested in response to rumors of Lokrian suggestions that instead Temesa could be stripped from Lokri, since the city had been seized by them and was a demonstration of growing Lokrian power. To be sure, Krotone had participated in the war, but it did not do so out of any love for Syrakousai but because of its fears about the balance of power. Since it had been clear that the balance would not be going away, as evidenced by the obviously merciful and munificent delegation of the allies, it should not be punished. But Lokri! Oooh, Lokri. They were trouble.
The allies saw this maneuvering for what it was: A transparent attempt by both of the rivals to shift blame from the other and undermine them in turn. But though it was amusing, few among the allies were truly amused. It was generally felt that they ought to choose one or the other or punish them the same. The fear with punishing them the same, of course, was that by doing so they would create two enemies rather than one. Better to single one out. On this score both had positives and negatives. The Krotonians, it is true, were greater allies of convenience, but they were also more powerful and more dangerous on land, and their Hoplites were feared among the other Italiotes. The Lokrians, meanwhile, had been truly committed to Syrakousai, but had been a consistent thorn in the side of Krotone. Rhegion and Metapontion both wished to diplomatically isolate Krotone, but to do so could cost a powerful and dangerous enemy, that could look to Taras for guidance. A Krotonian-Tarentine alliance would be a true nightmare, visiting untold devastation to the other Italiote cities. And so it was up to Eretria to cast the deciding vote on the matter, for Mikythos of Rhegion and Lykos of Metapontion respected its commander Herodion, and Eretria's cavalry were necessary for any war in Sicily so both wished to be on the city's good side.
And of course, the matter of Harpos' loot also loomed large. No matter what, Eretria would get a large indemnity from the Krotonians and Tarentines, but how much of that would go to Harpos? Harpos sought the money, he explained, for grand projects of infrastructure, such as roads and even new towns to be settled by tribal Peuketii and refugees in Dauni and Messapii lands who would return home seeing such wealth and prosperity. Some were afraid that such a cash payment would make him even more wily and independent. Others said that the city must have as much money as possible for its own series of infrastructure projects. Obander and Drako in equal measure accused war-focused Herodion, who did not care much about giving the money to Harpos, of depriving Eretria of badly needed revenues to make it a city of true renown. They had seen Metapontion and Rhegion, both far wealthier and better built cities, and demanded that Eretria adhere to such standards for the sake of its own success.
It was put before the voting citizenry.
How should Eretria deal with Krotone and Lokri?
[] Punish them equally [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Krotone loses Terina, Lokri loses Temesa].
[] Favor Lokri in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Krotone loses Terina and has a harsher indemnity].
[] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
How should Eretria dole out rewards?
[] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[] Provide Harpos with 25% of the money [50 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos].
[] Provide Harpos with 10% of the indemnity [20 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is displeased].
Note: Harpos has been given a fifty talent advance. If you provide him eighty talents, that is an extra thirty. If you provide him 20, that is a partial revocation of the advance. The middle option simply confirms the advance and may make Harpos unhappy for not gaining the full extent of what he thought he would gain. The bottom option will just piss him off outright.
The allies saw this maneuvering for what it was: A transparent attempt by both of the rivals to shift blame from the other and undermine them in turn. But though it was amusing, few among the allies were truly amused. It was generally felt that they ought to choose one or the other or punish them the same. The fear with punishing them the same, of course, was that by doing so they would create two enemies rather than one. Better to single one out. On this score both had positives and negatives. The Krotonians, it is true, were greater allies of convenience, but they were also more powerful and more dangerous on land, and their Hoplites were feared among the other Italiotes. The Lokrians, meanwhile, had been truly committed to Syrakousai, but had been a consistent thorn in the side of Krotone. Rhegion and Metapontion both wished to diplomatically isolate Krotone, but to do so could cost a powerful and dangerous enemy, that could look to Taras for guidance. A Krotonian-Tarentine alliance would be a true nightmare, visiting untold devastation to the other Italiote cities. And so it was up to Eretria to cast the deciding vote on the matter, for Mikythos of Rhegion and Lykos of Metapontion respected its commander Herodion, and Eretria's cavalry were necessary for any war in Sicily so both wished to be on the city's good side.
And of course, the matter of Harpos' loot also loomed large. No matter what, Eretria would get a large indemnity from the Krotonians and Tarentines, but how much of that would go to Harpos? Harpos sought the money, he explained, for grand projects of infrastructure, such as roads and even new towns to be settled by tribal Peuketii and refugees in Dauni and Messapii lands who would return home seeing such wealth and prosperity. Some were afraid that such a cash payment would make him even more wily and independent. Others said that the city must have as much money as possible for its own series of infrastructure projects. Obander and Drako in equal measure accused war-focused Herodion, who did not care much about giving the money to Harpos, of depriving Eretria of badly needed revenues to make it a city of true renown. They had seen Metapontion and Rhegion, both far wealthier and better built cities, and demanded that Eretria adhere to such standards for the sake of its own success.
It was put before the voting citizenry.
How should Eretria deal with Krotone and Lokri?
[] Punish them equally [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Krotone loses Terina, Lokri loses Temesa].
[] Favor Lokri in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Krotone loses Terina and has a harsher indemnity].
[] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
How should Eretria dole out rewards?
[] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[] Provide Harpos with 25% of the money [50 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos].
[] Provide Harpos with 10% of the indemnity [20 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is displeased].
Note: Harpos has been given a fifty talent advance. If you provide him eighty talents, that is an extra thirty. If you provide him 20, that is a partial revocation of the advance. The middle option simply confirms the advance and may make Harpos unhappy for not gaining the full extent of what he thought he would gain. The bottom option will just piss him off outright.
With the end of the war in Italia all eyes turned to Syrakousai. With the entrance of the southern Sicilian cities into the war it no longer had naval superiority, but it was hardly defeated. With almost 15,000 soldiers in the field, many of them battle-hardened veterans and mercenaries, Syrakousai outnumbered the southern Sicilians (12,000 soldiers) and almost did the Ionian allies (16,000 soldiers). It would be best for the two groups to come together, but some were afraid that doing so would give Syrakousai unnecessary initiative to prepare a defense and raid them. Still, the danger of having their forces split was obvious. If Phaleron, the strategos of Syrakousai, was allowed to attack one army and then the other, he could very well win and turn the war from certain defeat to certain disaster for the allies. At the same time, if he was allowed time to prepare, he could reach further afield, convincing the Elymians or Sikani to support him, or else using his naval forces strategically to attack cities of the alliance from the sea. He could also raid the allies savagely, stripping away cavalry and skirmishers from a force that relied overwhelmingly on Eretria and a few auxiliary mercenaries to provide both. This would impair the coalition against the cavalry-heavy forces of Syrakousai, forces so strong that Herodion even feared fielding the Eretrian cavalry against them. Still, it had to be done. Herodion advocated that they must strike immediately, before Phaleron is able to gather his morale and forces after the blow of the southern cities joining, in order to end it all in one grand battle. Other allies were much more circumspect.
There was also jostling around who would hold the right flank. The greatest place of honor in any phalanx, among allies it was the foremost place to show prestige and power. The Sikeliotes argued that by virtue of their position in Sicily they ought to hold the position, as the foremost Sicilian ally. Rhegion suggested it ought to hold the place because of the reliable stoutness of its hoplites. And Eretria, of course, argued that its successes in Italy showed how important it was that they held the position. The argumentation had the potential to split allies, but it did so because of reasonable demands by each. To hold the right flank for an important battle, perhaps one of the largest in the Greek world since the Persian Wars and the Battle of Himera, would provide untold prestige and reputation among those who held it. At the same time, the reason why the right flank was so coveted is because it sustained the greatest casualties. Eretria could easily argue in favor of holding the less prestigious but still honorable left flank, but to do so would be to concede and allow some other polis to get the glory. For many, there was simply unconscionable.
The questions were put before the city. First, should they wait for their allies or dive straight across the straits of Messana and march on Syrakousai, and secondly, should Eretria press to hold the right flank for the sake of glory, even if doing so would cost them more casualties.
Should the Ionian Allies wait for the Dorian Sicilian allies to join them before attacking Phaleron?
[] No, we must strike Phaleron immediately to prevent him from stripping away our cavalry and skirmisher screens!
[] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
There was also jostling around who would hold the right flank. The greatest place of honor in any phalanx, among allies it was the foremost place to show prestige and power. The Sikeliotes argued that by virtue of their position in Sicily they ought to hold the position, as the foremost Sicilian ally. Rhegion suggested it ought to hold the place because of the reliable stoutness of its hoplites. And Eretria, of course, argued that its successes in Italy showed how important it was that they held the position. The argumentation had the potential to split allies, but it did so because of reasonable demands by each. To hold the right flank for an important battle, perhaps one of the largest in the Greek world since the Persian Wars and the Battle of Himera, would provide untold prestige and reputation among those who held it. At the same time, the reason why the right flank was so coveted is because it sustained the greatest casualties. Eretria could easily argue in favor of holding the less prestigious but still honorable left flank, but to do so would be to concede and allow some other polis to get the glory. For many, there was simply unconscionable.
The questions were put before the city. First, should they wait for their allies or dive straight across the straits of Messana and march on Syrakousai, and secondly, should Eretria press to hold the right flank for the sake of glory, even if doing so would cost them more casualties.
Should the Ionian Allies wait for the Dorian Sicilian allies to join them before attacking Phaleron?
[] No, we must strike Phaleron immediately to prevent him from stripping away our cavalry and skirmisher screens!
[] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
Should Eretria campaign vigorously before the allies to man the right flank of the allied army at an engagement with Phaleron?
[] Yes, the right flank will give Eretria great glory, even if it costs us more men.
[] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
Voting opens immediately and lasts at least one day.
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About Brention, I don't think that we are strong enough to prevent the seizure of the town. If we lose the battle, we will lose also our fleet entirely. Maybe it's better to use the money gained from the war to expand our naval forces before striking?
Or maybe, we can wait an year, build new ships and ask Kerkyra to join our expedition?
About the war, I would prefer to punish Lokri more, and keep Krotone near us.
And at this point let's give 40% to Harpos.
For the Sicilian Wars, for now no idea, really.
Or maybe, we can wait an year, build new ships and ask Kerkyra to join our expedition?
About the war, I would prefer to punish Lokri more, and keep Krotone near us.
And at this point let's give 40% to Harpos.
For the Sicilian Wars, for now no idea, really.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
We are in somewhat of the reverse of the usual position, in which our enemies can be expected to have superior cavalry. Herodion isn't even sure that the Eretrian cavalry can counter the forces that Phaleron can bring to the field already. In this case then I think our best option would be to flip the terms and make this a pure hoplite engagement, as much as possible, by bringing the full array of our allies together against him. We can keep back our Ekdromoi and cavalry and even the Peuketti skirmishers as a reserve just to counter any attempt on the flanks by the Syracusan cavalry while their mercenary heavy infantry are routed by the superior numbers of hoplites in the alliance.
It has the additional benefit of underlining that the battle is no longer an Ionian-Dorian feud, but rather a campaign to end Syracusan hegemony and bring liberty to all the (Greek) cities of Sicily and Italy. If the battle goes well, I'd even suggest perhaps establishing a new Panhellenic festival and games for Sicily and Italy in celebration, under the auspices of Apollo and Athena who are respectively associated with powerful Dorian and Ionian cities.
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
It has the additional benefit of underlining that the battle is no longer an Ionian-Dorian feud, but rather a campaign to end Syracusan hegemony and bring liberty to all the (Greek) cities of Sicily and Italy. If the battle goes well, I'd even suggest perhaps establishing a new Panhellenic festival and games for Sicily and Italy in celebration, under the auspices of Apollo and Athena who are respectively associated with powerful Dorian and Ionian cities.
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
- Location
- Meycauayan, Bulacan, Philippines
I, Bryzos the Psiloi, do vote for the following!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
My fellow citizens, WE STILL HAVE A POTENTIAL IN OUR HOMELAND! WE MUST PRESERVE OUR NUMBERS FOR THAT EVENTUALITY!
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
SAFETY IN NUMBERS, MY FELLOW CITIZENS! SAFETY IN NUMBERS!
[X] Provide Harpos with 25% of the money [50 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos].
Let's reward him with a fourth of our indemnity. It will show the world how Eretria treats its own.
[X] Punish them equally [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Krotone loses Terina, Lokri loses Temesa].
The both of them fought against us. So they should be equally punished.
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
Whatever happens, we must remain the biggest power in our part of Italia!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
My fellow citizens, WE STILL HAVE A POTENTIAL IN OUR HOMELAND! WE MUST PRESERVE OUR NUMBERS FOR THAT EVENTUALITY!
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
SAFETY IN NUMBERS, MY FELLOW CITIZENS! SAFETY IN NUMBERS!
[X] Provide Harpos with 25% of the money [50 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos].
Let's reward him with a fourth of our indemnity. It will show the world how Eretria treats its own.
[X] Punish them equally [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Krotone loses Terina, Lokri loses Temesa].
The both of them fought against us. So they should be equally punished.
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
Whatever happens, we must remain the biggest power in our part of Italia!
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KlinkerKing
Man bites dog?
- Location
- The Lion's Den
Well now. How very interesting. The positioning of troops AFAICT is a matter of A) the quality of the troops i.e. can they actually do the job well enough, B) being diplomatic so as to keep the unity and C) Risk v. Reward, yes?
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
To be clear, Korinthos has twenty ships at Taras. Their navy as a whole has about 90-100 triremes, but they only have twenty in this theater.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
I'd favor Krotone for the peace, because a strong Krotone is still much less of a problem than an angry Krotone allied to Taras.
Hm... So, two more years until our sea wall is finished, yeah? I trust that Eusebios naval genius can win a battle against a mere 20 masts, and after they lose their expeditionary fleet i do not think Korinthos will have the wherewithal to send another, similiarily sized fleet until at least a year later.
That is definitely cutting it close. They almost have to attack us next year if they will do so at all, otherwise our sea walls make our city largely impossible to assault by sea. I think that is a really hard decision.
By the way, will that fleet be entirely sent by Korinthos, or will Taras also contribute ships?
HanEmpire
Delicious
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
- Location
- Central Europe
The biggest problem of course being a stong Krotone allied to Taras. They took in the family of the last king of Taras. Not sure if that is a point of contention between the two, or rather a sign of generally good relation.
@Cetashwayo How have the two strongest Italiote cities been getting along up until now?
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
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- Location
- Meycauayan, Bulacan, Philippines
@Cetashwayo, is there any kind of roll or choice that would bring us more innovations for stuff?
- Location
- Universe, Milky Way, Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 25% of the money [50 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
EDIT: Lessened the amount of Talents given to Harpos.
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 25% of the money [50 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
EDIT: Lessened the amount of Talents given to Harpos.
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- Location
- Orlando, Florida
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
- Location
- Luton Airport
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
We want to stop Korinthian encroachment on our sphere now, while it's small. Letting them take a bite out of Brention will if anything just encourage Taras and Arpus towards Korinth's interests. As it stands, Korinth has a number of reasons not to push us to war (two big ones called Kerkya and Athens).
As @Cavalier says, Krotone, as a democracy and a strong land power in the SW of Italia, seems the better bet to favour, over Lokri.
I'm okay with stuffing Harpos with goodies to demonstrate to the Peuketti the benefits of servitude (though I think his 50 talent advance comes off the 80 @Cetashwayo?).
As for Sicily, I'd rather take it slow and steady rather than try rushing for the prize when we're not in an advantageous position.
I'd suggest we concede the right flank, using that concession to push for Herodion to be in overall command - that a viable trade-off we could make @Cetashwayo?
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
We want to stop Korinthian encroachment on our sphere now, while it's small. Letting them take a bite out of Brention will if anything just encourage Taras and Arpus towards Korinth's interests. As it stands, Korinth has a number of reasons not to push us to war (two big ones called Kerkya and Athens).
As @Cavalier says, Krotone, as a democracy and a strong land power in the SW of Italia, seems the better bet to favour, over Lokri.
I'm okay with stuffing Harpos with goodies to demonstrate to the Peuketti the benefits of servitude (though I think his 50 talent advance comes off the 80 @Cetashwayo?).
As for Sicily, I'd rather take it slow and steady rather than try rushing for the prize when we're not in an advantageous position.
I'd suggest we concede the right flank, using that concession to push for Herodion to be in overall command - that a viable trade-off we could make @Cetashwayo?
Damian45
Only Sane Man
X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flankinstead, conceding the point.
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flankinstead, conceding the point.
- Location
- Luton Airport
We're already wildly innovative for the era.
I am concerned that providing Harpos with 40% of the indemnity will mean that he will expect that much money every time he campaigns with us in the future. We've already seen that he won't accept less than the 50 Talents we've provided him in advance, and if we give him 30 talents on top of that he will have made more money of this campaign than his overlords! We can't really keep that up long term.
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- Location
- Mists of Albion
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 25% of the money [50 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flankinstead, conceding the point.
Look guys. I'm all for loyalty and shit. But Harpos would gain more money than us from the fighting in Italy if we go 40%, we are critically underdeveloped infrastructuraly. We need to be better than we are, please don't spend so much time looking outwards you forget about the future and the city we have to go back to.
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 25% of the money [50 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flankinstead, conceding the point.
Look guys. I'm all for loyalty and shit. But Harpos would gain more money than us from the fighting in Italy if we go 40%, we are critically underdeveloped infrastructuraly. We need to be better than we are, please don't spend so much time looking outwards you forget about the future and the city we have to go back to.
- Pronouns
- Male
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
We already have enough money to pay for a construction spree once the war is over and the wall being finished frees up labor. We can also expect more money from an indemnity from Syracuse if we win next turn (not guaranteed regardless of choice, mind). All things considered, and given the critical role the Peuketti cavalry and skirmishers are fulfilling for us, I don't think it's necessary to go cheapskate with them.
[X] Send the triremes [10 Triremes dispatched under Eusebios to protect Brention].
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.
[X] Favor Krotone in the peace [+200 talents for Eretria's part in the war, Lokri loses Temesa and has a harsher indemnity].
[X] Provide Harpos with 40% of the money [80 talents from the indemnity go to Harpos, he is elated and may make more gestures of loyalty in the future].
[X] Yes, we must not allow him to split our forces and defeat us in detail!
[X] No, we will not fight with our allies, and will take the left flank instead, conceding the point.