[X] USER MOTION (Ironanvil1): Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.
[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
[X] USER MOTION (Cavalier): We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
[X] USER MOTION (Ironanvil1): Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.
[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
[X] USER MOTION (Cavalier): We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
[x] USER MOTION (Ironanvil1): Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.
[x] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
[x] USER MOTION (Han Empire) We need to build the wall right to begin with. Let us use the Sacred Treasury to build a wall that befits the glory of Eretria, grand enough to impress the whole world! Extend the wall over a large area, fortify the shore and harbour, and thicken it to store grains. [-370 talents, five turns to build].
[X] USER MOTION (Ironanvil1): Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.
[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
[X] USER MOTION (Han Empire) We need to build the wall right to begin with. Let us use the Sacred Treasury to build a wall that befits the glory of Eretria, grand enough to impress the whole world! Extend the wall over a large area, fortify the shore and harbour, and thicken it to store grains. [-370 talents, five turns to build].
Reformatting my vote and adding the diplo choice. (I see how Metapontion is probably better, and is winning anyhow, but I want to stay coherent with my earlier arguments).
[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.
[X] Dispatch Kallias north to Arimnus and then on foot throughout Padanian Etruria on the road to Atria to build allies against a potential Liburnian incursion, as they are growing bolder every year and could potentially strike at Eretria.
[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10%annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents,wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
Given the state of siege warfare, the primary thing stone walls get us is being highly resistant to any attempt at storming us. If one of the big players who can actually afford to bottle us up and wait us out come after us, I don't see that the extra year thick walls provide is going to be particularly important.
Given the state of siege warfare, the primary thing stone walls get us is being highly resistant to any attempt at storming us. If one of the big players who can actually afford to bottle us up and wait us out come after us, I don't see that the extra year thick walls provide is going to be particularly important.
Give time for allies to arrive and rescue us: see Sicilian Expedition - Wikipedia
Cetashwayo mentioned the Sicilian expedition earlier and how Athens could mantain a long siege there: well, I remember that siege being considered one of the chief causes for their eventual defeat in the Peloponnese war... Of course we cannot hope to have the resilience of Syracuse (a very hard nut to crack even for the Romans), but we are also not as important that a major polis would commit such a large part of her resources.
As a side note I don't see why we couldn't build expanded granaries in the city later on, but not included in the walls.
As to the sea-wall, that is mostly to prevent (liburnian) raids and having to bend the knee to powerful navies. A sea expedition to Apulia must be really expensive even for Corinth and how long do they think they can afford to be 40-50 triremes short when they have both Kerkyra and Athens to worry about? Naval expeditions are horrendously expensive. Without a fortified harbour our ability to resist a powerful land based threat are limited and the harbour area itself becomes a defensive liability, with it the enemy needs to blockade us too, or they will end like the Spartan sieges of Athens: damaging and disrupting, but not war winning.
I am not saying that wall will make untouchable, but it buys vital time to get reorganised and acts as a deterrent, making any actual conquest much costlier. Even a determined enemy, after defeating us on the field might come to terms and accept tribute or territory instead of trying to outright conquer/rape pillage and burn our city. Well, until those swamp hicks put their act together, at least!
[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.
[X] Dispatch Kallias north to Arimnus and then on foot throughout Padanian Etruria on the road to Atria to build allies against a potential Liburnian incursion, as they are growing bolder every year and could potentially strike at Eretria.
[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10%annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents,wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
The whole naval situation of Eretria and the greater Adriatic region certainly does give a lot of food for thought. Still, it doesn't seem wise to put in any work into endeavours that we aren't certain we're gonna reap any benefits when there are others we are.
[X] USER MOTION (Ironanvil1): Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.
[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
[X] USER MOTION (Cavalier): We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
[X] We cannot simply lay low all our allies when we see fit for the sake of empowering one man. He is capable, it is true, but the people of Rhyps have done nothing to deserve being turned over, and their fear keeps them well in line. There is little fear of them turning away from us, so why give Harpos a further boon so quickly?
[X] Dispatch Kallias north to Arimnus and then on foot throughout Padanian Etruria on the road to Atria to build allies against a potential Liburnian incursion, as they are growing bolder every year and could potentially strike at Eretria.
[X] We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10%annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents,wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
The Sicilian Expedition was certainly a grave defeat for Athens, though it's notable the Athenians could dispatch and supply such a huge expedition for so long to Sicily. Nor was defeat necessarily pre-determined, but rather the result of many factors within the control of Athens like the banishment of Alcibiades.
Furthermore the Athenians were able to rebuild their fleet and armies and wage war with Sparta for years further, inflicting several defeats on the Spartans and their allies. They actually rejected a couple of Spartan peace overtures on the status quo ante bellum well after Syracuse and were only really brought down after Persia opened her unlimited treasury to the Spartans.
Partly that should go to point out the importance of the Sacred Treasury, since the Athenian version was what allowed them to rebuild their navy and surge back in strength after Syracuse, and partly it should go to point out not to underestimate Athens. There's a reason I compared having their favor as a big red button to push in case of emergency.
In what year are we exactly? This might be ''cheating'' but we are getting to the point where sources became somewhat abondant, if not about the west then about Hellas proper. It doesn't seem that Eretria existence has made to many butterfly there either so knowledge of OTL is becoming quite usefull to determine a course of action in regard to Korinth and other matters pertaining to the mainland.
Edit: According to the OP we are in 468 BC, therefore in four years Korinth is gonna have her hands full with the ripples of the Third Messenian War and the First Peloponesian War after that. In the short term we need to remain cautious but that's a threat who, for once, should take care of itself in due time. At the very least, the Third Messenian War should happen on calendar since the uprising who started it was caused by an earthquake.
[X] We cannot simply lay low all our allies when we see fit for the sake of empowering one man. He is capable, it is true, but the people of Rhyps have done nothing to deserve being turned over, and their fear keeps them well in line. There is little fear of them turning away from us, so why give Harpos a further boon so quickly?
[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
[X] USER MOTION (Han Empire) We need to build the wall right to begin with. Let us use the Sacred Treasury to build a wall that befits the glory of Eretria, grand enough to impress the whole world! Extend the wall over a large area, fortify the shore and harbour, and thicken it to store grains. [-370 talents, five turns to build].
In what year are we exactly? This might be ''cheating'' but we are getting to the point where sources became somewhat abondant, if not about the west then about Hellas proper. It doesn't seem that Eretria existence has made to many butterfly there either so knowledge of OTL is becoming quite usefull to determine a course of action in regard to Korinth and other matters pertaining to the mainland.
Edit: According to the OP we are in 468 BC, therefore in four years Korinth is gonna have her hands full with the ripples of the Third Messenian War and the First Peloponesian War after that. In the short term we need to remain cautious but that's a threat who, for once, should take care of itself in due time. At the very least, the Third Messenian War should happen on calendar since the uprising who started it was caused by an earthquake.
I assume that a eartquake hasn't been butterflied away, that's a pretty safe assumption.
If the situation of the Messenians had grown good enough for it to not provoke a revolt, trust me, we would have heard of it, since the whole political system of Sparta depended on exploiting/mistreating them to a very high degree.
How will the financing of the Stone wall be done?
Will we empty the normal treasury first, grab the rest (~30 talents) from the sacred treasury and leave ourselves without funds for the rest of turn 23? Or will we grab a different amount from the sacred treasury (of course to be repaid by the end of the turn)?
How will the financing of the Stone wall be done?
Will we empty the normal treasury first, grab the rest (~30 talents) from the sacred treasury and leave ourselves without funds for the rest of turn 23? Or will we grab a different amount from the sacred treasury (of course to be repaid by the end of the turn)?
First the 286.7 talents will be subtracted, then the rest will be from the treasury.
In the meantime, update will have to wait a few days at most, I'm starting university again. Going to be busy getting all my coursework and I figured I'd let people know; use this time to catch up if you haven't or read the old quest
[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die. Number of voters: 38
[X] USER MOTION Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city. Number of voters: 35
[X] USER MOTION (Cavalier): We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury]. Number of voters: 36
Note: I probably missed some votes for one or the other here that weren't properly formatted, but they all won pretty handily so need to count pennies.
At the end of the year, as Eretria, a new kingdom was erected and an old one fell. Harpos was confirmed in a ceremony whereby the citizens of Eretria watched from the walls as all the members of the boule passed a rock between them and to Harpos. The rock was a foundation stone of the temple of Bare, unearthed during the construction of the Acropolis. Harpos took the rock and cradled it under his shoulder, bowing before the Eretrians and acknowledging their contribution of the stone to the Peuketii. The message was obvious; this was to be a final truce as much as a consecration of a new kingdom. By returning the stone, the ekklesia and boule did not only show their magnaminity towards the Peuketii under Harpos' control but also revealed that a chapter of Peuketii history was at an end. They were united for the first time in their history under a single ruler, a man who had been only one among many only a few years before. The long chaos was over, and Harpos was the harbinger of its conclusion.
His work was not done, however. He began the year by allaying the fears of Eretria and marrying his eldest daughter to the son of the Chief of Rhyps; although it was an elected position, he essentially surrendered his daughter as a hostage to one of their notables, and combined with Eretria's guarantees it was enough to salve the minds of some. Others plotted in the shadows, but walked lightly and spoke quietly, because after the excision of Canosa no one was particularly willing to reveal to Harpos a reason for their annihilation. Better to work with him for now and guard themselves against his potential incursions into their town's internal affairs.
Eretria was less concerned about this, however, than it was with the provision for a new wall. A longstanding ambition of the city, it was enough to warrant an injection of talents from the Sacred Treasury (instantly paid back with the end-of-year taxation) and the draining of the entire normal reserve of the city. Stones were hewed, songs were sung, and the citizens began to work on their greatest project; a wall that would protect the city and prepare for its future by extending outwards and covering the entirety of the Bare promontory jutting out into the Adriatic. Not only that, but a sea wall was constructed, preparing the city against threats from the Liburnians and blocking any chance of naval invasion. It would be a stout, strong wall, ready to withstand any attack from without. The city's concern, once (if?) the wall was finished, of course, was about its lack of naval power; even if it could hide behind walls, enemies could strip away its allies, detach its tributaries, and annihilate the Epulian League.
Still, there was reason to hope, and reason to extend the city's contacts outwards towards the south. To that end Kallias was sent to negotiate with Metapontion and observe the Lykai situation to make some heads or tails of it. In the first place, he landed in Metapontion to some applause and interest; it was not usual to get a foreign dignitary in this fashion, and envoys were usually only sent in times of war or to dispatch peace deals in general among the Greeks. The city of Metapontion gleefully accepted the offer of Prodos, the proposed Eretrian proxenos, and then got down to business discussing a variety of manners with Kallias. Their system of government was similar to Eretria's, where a proboulos elected every year mediated foreign relations and managed some affairs for the sovereign ekklesia. Unlike Eretria, however, the Metapontine system had more vested in the proboulos, perhaps too much. The proboulos at the time, as it was, met with Kallias and explained the foreign situation in a detailed manner.
In the first place, the problem with Lykai; it was not really a problem and Eretria should stop worrying. Yes, it was true that there were many ties of Leontios and his scammers in the city, but as the proboulos revealed to Kallias (something Kallias had already known but not publicly revealed), the leader of Lykai, Alepous, was himself Leontios. Apparently the man had explained the whole situation to the proboulos over a lovely dinner and he had accepted it; after all, Lykai was an enormously important counterweight to Taras, and prevented the city from expressing its ambitions over the whole Sallentine Peninsula just as well as the Messapii did. Of course, the matter with the scams and money lost by Eretrians was unfortunate, but it was a necessary evil for the containment of Taras, who he had heard was planning for a major campaign launched against the Messapii after years of agitation by the common people of the oligarchs.
Besides, of course, there were more important matters than just Lykai, and the Tarentines were still too tied up to worry about. No, the real trouble was the looming storm cloud over the whole of Greek Italia and Sicily. Apparently, and unbeknownst to the Eretrians, there was a rapidly developing system of alliances as part of a larger conflagration ready to catch fire so soon as the news of Hiero's death became more than just a rumor. The alliance had been divided into two parts; the Dorians and the Ionians, and neither wanted the other to have any particular advantage over the other. On the one side were Himera, Rhegion, and Metapontion (although not technically Ionian, a number of the Sicilian refugees had been part of the Democratic Revolution and the city had switched allegiances away from the Dorians), along with (secretly) some of the Ionian Sicilian cities. On the other side, whatever remnants of Hiero's empire after he died, Krotone and Lokri Epixephyrii were likely to oppose them. The Ionian Greeks were planning a campaign to intervene in Sicily and help their brothers to be liberated from the Dorian yoke, while Krotone and Lokri were opposed on the principle of it disturbing the balance of power in the region.
To that end, Metapontion was interested in Eretria's assistance. In exchange for military contributions through military forces dispatched to the area, Metapontion would accept a larger alliance with Eretria. They would not accept a limited alliance, unfortunately, despite Kallias' insistence. As the proboulos of Metapontion explained, they needed allies, not liabilities. It was true that Eretria was isolated, but they had met with the Messapii and they were amenable enough to an Eretrian passage so long as the Metapontines turned a blind eye to the Messapii struggle with Taras. In exchange for their assistance, not only would the regent of Rhegion Mikythos be deeply grateful, but there was the potential for stronger and wider ties all across Magna Graecia. What had once been an isolated frontier people, trapped far away from their fellow Greeks, could once again enter the fold and consecrate itself in battle against their fellows.
The choice was up to Eretria, of course, and the proboulos winked; after all, there would be plenty of time, as Hiero had just recently declared himself free of illness and ready to go on campaign again against internal rebels. Somehow that assurance did not give much confidence to Kallias, but he took it regardless, and arrived home to explain the situation. The choice was up to the city; for the first time they would be up in foreign entanglements, but in exchange they could get wider and far stronger ties to the Western Ionian Greeks of a kind they had never had before. Eretria was not likely itself to be in any danger, and its army was, Herodion proclaimed, "among the best of all the Greeks". However, to tie up significant military forces far away, or to dispatch Herodion to lead them; it was difficult, with many away for months at a time far away from home.
It fell to the ekklesia to decide, and as it turned out their breathing room had run out; the news came only a few days after Kallias:
Hiero was dead, and the Sicilian wars had begun.
Metapontion has offered the city of Eretria an alliance in exchange for their assistance in a war of Ionian versus Dorian Greeks in Italia and Sicily. If Eretria makes significant contributions of soldiers and materiel to the war effort, then Metapontion and Rhegion will both be enormously grateful to the city, but it is likely to entangle Eretria deeply into foreign wars away from their own soil. The Tarentines, as it is, are deeply tied up and cannot intervene one way or another, and the Messapii and amiable to military passage due to Metapontine guarantees.
[] Accept Metapontion's alliance and call arms. To Arms, Ionians, against the menace of the Dorians! We will shatter their spears and break their shields!
[] Refuse Metapontion's alliance and call to arms. We cannot tie ourselves up in wars of Greek against Greek while our wall is being built! We may lose the alliance, but we have the security of isolation!
Vote closes tomorrow at 9 PM EST. (A little more than 24 hours)
Population & Military
Eretria Eskhata
Population: 34,066 (3.5% growth per turn) Triremes: 10 Total Raisable Levy: 3,450 men Hoplites: 1,925 Men Sacred Ekdromoi: 500 Men Cavalry: 375 Men Kleos Exoria: 50 Men Psilloi: 600 Men Maximum Levy: 3,600 men
Under Construction
Stone Wall [Tier III, Fortification]
--Sea Wall [Tier III, Fortification Extension]
--Wide Walls [Tier III Fortification Extension]
Will finish at end of 312 OL
1 unit of Metals from Kymai (-10 talents per turn due to tax)
1 unit of Metals from Canosa (-6 talents per turn due to tax)
Exports
2 units of Smoked Anchovies to Taras (+20 talents a turn)
1 unit of Lumber to Greece (+10 talents a turn)
1 unit of Grain to Athens (+7 talents a turn)
Modifiers
Weights and Measures: 10% Trade Bonus Agora: 25% Trade Bonus
Would going to War and allying with Metapontion do anything to harm the Metic Opinion? I don't remember what most of our Syracusian Metics are in regards to the Ionian/Dorian split.
Would going to War and allying with Metapontion do anything to harm the Metic Opinion? I don't remember what most of our Syracusian Metics are in regards to the Ionian/Dorian split.
They're mostly Ionians whose cities were conquered by Gelo, so it's fair to say they'll be enthusiastic about getting their own back.
For my part I think it's reasonable to intervene. It'll shore up Eretria's credentials with fellow Ionians (the most important of which are the Athenians), lead Eretria into the forefront of affairs in Hellenic Italy, and give our army much-needed real experience. Fighting among Greeks is a normal state of affairs in any case.
[X] Refuse Metapontion's alliance and call to arms. We cannot tie ourselves up in wars of Greek against Greek while our wall is being built! We may lose the alliance, but we have the security of isolation!
Getting involved in such a mess doesn't look like a good idea to me, especially with that rogue involved. Even more so since we just started to build our wall and have our own problems to deal with. Sending any significant military force of our own out seems to be asking for unnecessary trouble.
