Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
Sure, but these things also take time.
Magna Graecia: Victory's Children (A City State Quest)
- Thread starter Cetashwayo
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Actually, it'll be short, sharp and bloody
And on that note, voting is closed.
Horologer
Incertae sedis
- Location
- a risen sea
Yeah, but while I think it's a decent idea, it's unduly provocative and I think it could very easily tip him off about our plans. We don't want to give Arpus a reason to suspect that we're going to deceive him.
EDIT: welp
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
RIDING TO ELYSIUM SHINY AND CHROME!
I live, I die, I live again!
The Ekklesia departing the auditorium after finishing a vote.
Last edited:
308 OL, Turn 23: The Bloody Crown
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
308 OL, Turn 23: The Bloody Crown
[X] King Harpos of Sannape shall be appointed as the ruler of Canosa in place of Atthelon. [User Motion: Cavalier]
Number of voters: 29
[X] Refuse Arpus' deal.
Number of voters: 36
Number of voters: 29
[X] Refuse Arpus' deal.
Number of voters: 36
The Despoiling of Canosa
Messengers from the city brought the news to Harpos of his Canosan reward and rallied the Sacred Ekradamoi along with the Kleos Exoria. The golden soldiers of Eretria went on the march, their costs backed by liturgies (private donations) from the wealthiest citizens of the city. Herodion dispatched them to ensure that Canosa was brought to heel if needed, but then Harpos ensured Herodion that he had a plan. Still suspicious, Herodion accompanied Harpos, who rallied his forces despite the winter chill and rushed to Canosa with all haste. Along the way, Herodion was taken aback by the huge number of tribal Canosan villagers, many of them light cavalry and skirmishers, who joined Harpos. Apparently the urban Canosan notables had ignored their wishes for years, tied as they were to their prideful ambitions and their internal struggles. Harpos, at least, offered to them an opportunity to bring the elites to heel and break their power conclusively. Neither the tribesmen or Herodion, of course, were aware of how far Harpos would go in the pursuit of political control over Canosa.
Arriving near the city, Harpos found the gates closed to him, so he simply camped outside after a short diversion to the river northwards, whereupon Herodion became angered by whatever game Harpos was playing. Arpus could very soon be aware of the refusal of his deal and mobilize, using Canosan boats to cross the Aufidus. Harpos assured him by saying that by the night the river would no longer be navigable from the Canosan side and explained his specific plan. Now deeply intrigued, Herodion offered his own aid and was placated, still skeptical but now willing to follow Harpos' plans. The ekdramoi and Kleos Exoria, similarly doubtful, were rallied by Herodion's explanation, filled with a certain kind of soldierly relish. He did not enjoy killing, but a good plan executed was a beauty in and of itself. One could thrill in the hunt while taking no distinct pleasure in the slaughter of the noble stag; like any creature of Artemis it deserved solemn respect, and so too to matters of war. Why were Athene's eyes gray but her armor resplendent; because in the conduct of war she revealed the beauty of battle, but in gazing at the enemy that she would kill she had nothing to give but the grey dullness of Hades.
The night fell, and then was lit up brilliantly as the boats sailed down the river. These were no ordinary boats, after all, but fireships set alight sailing fiercely towards the city's harbour. The Canosans, some attempting to escape by cover of darkness and others simply at the harbour at the wrong time, were caught unawares by the arrival of the blazing boats, and it was made worse by the sudden confusion when one of Harpos' compatriots within the city flung the gates open and Harpos' forces flooded in. The Canosan dignitaries, not expecting treachery, attempted to rush to the harbour only to find that the wooden support and jetty were ablaze along with many of the boats. Harpos secured the gates first, slaughtering the unprepared night watch and then spreading throughout the city in a bloody retribution. Herodion and his men, to avoid the chaos of the sack, stayed outside the city and simply listened to the screams and wails for days.
On the first day, as dawn broke, most of the watch had been slaughtered or captured and the city was mostly under Herodion's control, with the dignitaries holding out on the acropolis. The fate of Atthelon was revealed, as his rotting body hanged from the fortified palace. Moving to secure the remainder of the city outside the acropolis, Herodion killed hundreds of people, especially noble Canosans, or else turned a blind eye to the depradations of his forces. The rivalry between Canosa and the other cities was very old, and many despised the city for its haughty demeanor and domineering manner. On the second day, after placing the acropolis under siege, Harpos opened the gates, allowing hundreds more to flee into the countryside and denude the city of many of its residents, further weakening its power. What this was, after all, and what Herodion realized with a shrewd grimness, was a solution to the "Canosan problem"; Harpos would clearly brook no competitors and not allow himself to be tied down by an eternal rival.
On the third day, the acropolis fell when some of the defenders again betrayed it to Harpos in the hopes of getting rewards. To a few of them Harpos gave security and safe passage, but to most of the turncoats he gave only cold iron. The city's public buildings were looted and the Canosan dignitaries burned alive in the palace by Harpos, who captured them, tied them up, and left them immobile while his warriors set the wooden supports alight. Simultaneously immolated and under a collapsing building, there were no survivors among the dignitaries, and the council was utterly annihilated. Remaining resistance in the city was pointed to as evidence of an anti-Eretrian conspiracy, and several dozen public executions took place as Harpos promised rewards and encouraged looting among the remaining Canosans.
Finally, by the end of the second week, Harpos ordered the restoration of order, delegated Canosa to the chief Gargas who was one of his trusted lieutenants and who had done the sheep raid against the Lucani two years prior, and left the city. Herodion was deeply impressed, especially as he observed that Dauni riders had on several occasions gathered on the left bank of the Aufidus, only to withdraw. It was clear that whatever Arpus was expecting this was not it, and only hoped that the frightening care with which Harpos had dispatched his political enemies in the city was not something he would attempt to apply to Eretria in the future. In any case, if he did, Eretria would simply crush him. Such was the way of the world, and after saying some words to approve of Harpos' rapid removal of potential threats and rebuffing of any Dauni attacks, departed back to Eretria to relay what had happened.
Of course, along the way, the road passed by the city of Rhyps. Having heard news of Harpos' actions in Canosa, a group of notables from the town (which had an elected chief) emerged and begged Herodion not to allow Harpos dominion over them, since they feared he would apply exactly the same tactics of terror that he had done in Canosa. Herodion assured the people of Rhyps that no such thing was to occur and that they needn't worry; Harpos was only being entrusted with Canosa. However, a few weeks after he returned to Eretria, a messenger came from Harpos thanking the Eretrians mightily for the provision of Canosa, and that he had already sent back a headless messenger to Arpus who had offered Harpos a deal for becoming King of the Peuketii if only he accepted Arpus as the foremost king of the Iapyges. The messengers explained that Harpos was however pertrubed by the status of Rhyps, and wondered what would be done with it. Personally, he felt that his actions, in rebuffing not only Arpus and destroying Canosan resistance but in conducting himself justly and fairly with Eretrian soldiers proved his loyalty, and that he ought to be put up as ruler of Rhyps as well. He would not necessarily care either way, but to become King of the Peuketii, as he assumed Eretria was granting him in giving him Canosa, it would not be fair to leave other cities independent of his guidance and care.
For their part, the Eretrians were deeply divided. No one had quite expected Harpos to make such quick work of the Canosans, and Drako suggested that perhaps he had secretly hoped for this and the surprising number of turncoats were his agents among the Canosan dignitaries, serving to assist Harpos in gaining a political monopoly over the Peuketii cities. Antipater appreciated Harpos audacity and pursuit of excellence, but explained that his instinct was still that of a barbaroi and he should only be granted more power if needed, and no more than that. Herodion, deeply impressed over Harpos' actions, said he was a man that likely could be trusted and that it was better to provide him leadership over Rhyps and crown him king than not; he had his experience with vassal kings and clients among the Carthaginians, and less tended to be more, he explained. The fewer internal rivalries and struggling, the better they would do as a unified force in battle. Drako, for his part, pointed out that the opposite was also possible to be true, and that while he was also impressed with Harpos, he could not countenance anything at this time. He was also disturbed by the idea of allowing Rhyps to fall into a similar slaughter to Canosa considering that they had been remarkably well-behaved, and their shepherds even traded regularly with the outlying Eretrian estates. The question was put to the ekklesia.
Messengers from the city brought the news to Harpos of his Canosan reward and rallied the Sacred Ekradamoi along with the Kleos Exoria. The golden soldiers of Eretria went on the march, their costs backed by liturgies (private donations) from the wealthiest citizens of the city. Herodion dispatched them to ensure that Canosa was brought to heel if needed, but then Harpos ensured Herodion that he had a plan. Still suspicious, Herodion accompanied Harpos, who rallied his forces despite the winter chill and rushed to Canosa with all haste. Along the way, Herodion was taken aback by the huge number of tribal Canosan villagers, many of them light cavalry and skirmishers, who joined Harpos. Apparently the urban Canosan notables had ignored their wishes for years, tied as they were to their prideful ambitions and their internal struggles. Harpos, at least, offered to them an opportunity to bring the elites to heel and break their power conclusively. Neither the tribesmen or Herodion, of course, were aware of how far Harpos would go in the pursuit of political control over Canosa.
Arriving near the city, Harpos found the gates closed to him, so he simply camped outside after a short diversion to the river northwards, whereupon Herodion became angered by whatever game Harpos was playing. Arpus could very soon be aware of the refusal of his deal and mobilize, using Canosan boats to cross the Aufidus. Harpos assured him by saying that by the night the river would no longer be navigable from the Canosan side and explained his specific plan. Now deeply intrigued, Herodion offered his own aid and was placated, still skeptical but now willing to follow Harpos' plans. The ekdramoi and Kleos Exoria, similarly doubtful, were rallied by Herodion's explanation, filled with a certain kind of soldierly relish. He did not enjoy killing, but a good plan executed was a beauty in and of itself. One could thrill in the hunt while taking no distinct pleasure in the slaughter of the noble stag; like any creature of Artemis it deserved solemn respect, and so too to matters of war. Why were Athene's eyes gray but her armor resplendent; because in the conduct of war she revealed the beauty of battle, but in gazing at the enemy that she would kill she had nothing to give but the grey dullness of Hades.
The night fell, and then was lit up brilliantly as the boats sailed down the river. These were no ordinary boats, after all, but fireships set alight sailing fiercely towards the city's harbour. The Canosans, some attempting to escape by cover of darkness and others simply at the harbour at the wrong time, were caught unawares by the arrival of the blazing boats, and it was made worse by the sudden confusion when one of Harpos' compatriots within the city flung the gates open and Harpos' forces flooded in. The Canosan dignitaries, not expecting treachery, attempted to rush to the harbour only to find that the wooden support and jetty were ablaze along with many of the boats. Harpos secured the gates first, slaughtering the unprepared night watch and then spreading throughout the city in a bloody retribution. Herodion and his men, to avoid the chaos of the sack, stayed outside the city and simply listened to the screams and wails for days.
On the first day, as dawn broke, most of the watch had been slaughtered or captured and the city was mostly under Herodion's control, with the dignitaries holding out on the acropolis. The fate of Atthelon was revealed, as his rotting body hanged from the fortified palace. Moving to secure the remainder of the city outside the acropolis, Herodion killed hundreds of people, especially noble Canosans, or else turned a blind eye to the depradations of his forces. The rivalry between Canosa and the other cities was very old, and many despised the city for its haughty demeanor and domineering manner. On the second day, after placing the acropolis under siege, Harpos opened the gates, allowing hundreds more to flee into the countryside and denude the city of many of its residents, further weakening its power. What this was, after all, and what Herodion realized with a shrewd grimness, was a solution to the "Canosan problem"; Harpos would clearly brook no competitors and not allow himself to be tied down by an eternal rival.
On the third day, the acropolis fell when some of the defenders again betrayed it to Harpos in the hopes of getting rewards. To a few of them Harpos gave security and safe passage, but to most of the turncoats he gave only cold iron. The city's public buildings were looted and the Canosan dignitaries burned alive in the palace by Harpos, who captured them, tied them up, and left them immobile while his warriors set the wooden supports alight. Simultaneously immolated and under a collapsing building, there were no survivors among the dignitaries, and the council was utterly annihilated. Remaining resistance in the city was pointed to as evidence of an anti-Eretrian conspiracy, and several dozen public executions took place as Harpos promised rewards and encouraged looting among the remaining Canosans.
Finally, by the end of the second week, Harpos ordered the restoration of order, delegated Canosa to the chief Gargas who was one of his trusted lieutenants and who had done the sheep raid against the Lucani two years prior, and left the city. Herodion was deeply impressed, especially as he observed that Dauni riders had on several occasions gathered on the left bank of the Aufidus, only to withdraw. It was clear that whatever Arpus was expecting this was not it, and only hoped that the frightening care with which Harpos had dispatched his political enemies in the city was not something he would attempt to apply to Eretria in the future. In any case, if he did, Eretria would simply crush him. Such was the way of the world, and after saying some words to approve of Harpos' rapid removal of potential threats and rebuffing of any Dauni attacks, departed back to Eretria to relay what had happened.
Of course, along the way, the road passed by the city of Rhyps. Having heard news of Harpos' actions in Canosa, a group of notables from the town (which had an elected chief) emerged and begged Herodion not to allow Harpos dominion over them, since they feared he would apply exactly the same tactics of terror that he had done in Canosa. Herodion assured the people of Rhyps that no such thing was to occur and that they needn't worry; Harpos was only being entrusted with Canosa. However, a few weeks after he returned to Eretria, a messenger came from Harpos thanking the Eretrians mightily for the provision of Canosa, and that he had already sent back a headless messenger to Arpus who had offered Harpos a deal for becoming King of the Peuketii if only he accepted Arpus as the foremost king of the Iapyges. The messengers explained that Harpos was however pertrubed by the status of Rhyps, and wondered what would be done with it. Personally, he felt that his actions, in rebuffing not only Arpus and destroying Canosan resistance but in conducting himself justly and fairly with Eretrian soldiers proved his loyalty, and that he ought to be put up as ruler of Rhyps as well. He would not necessarily care either way, but to become King of the Peuketii, as he assumed Eretria was granting him in giving him Canosa, it would not be fair to leave other cities independent of his guidance and care.
For their part, the Eretrians were deeply divided. No one had quite expected Harpos to make such quick work of the Canosans, and Drako suggested that perhaps he had secretly hoped for this and the surprising number of turncoats were his agents among the Canosan dignitaries, serving to assist Harpos in gaining a political monopoly over the Peuketii cities. Antipater appreciated Harpos audacity and pursuit of excellence, but explained that his instinct was still that of a barbaroi and he should only be granted more power if needed, and no more than that. Herodion, deeply impressed over Harpos' actions, said he was a man that likely could be trusted and that it was better to provide him leadership over Rhyps and crown him king than not; he had his experience with vassal kings and clients among the Carthaginians, and less tended to be more, he explained. The fewer internal rivalries and struggling, the better they would do as a unified force in battle. Drako, for his part, pointed out that the opposite was also possible to be true, and that while he was also impressed with Harpos, he could not countenance anything at this time. He was also disturbed by the idea of allowing Rhyps to fall into a similar slaughter to Canosa considering that they had been remarkably well-behaved, and their shepherds even traded regularly with the outlying Eretrian estates. The question was put to the ekklesia.
---
Harpos has thoroughly and frighteningly annihilated his opposition among the Canosans. Although this is likely not the end of his trouble with the city, it is certainly a temporary silence of a terrifying kind. Now he turns his eyes to Rhyps, who have begged in advance not to be given over to his tender mercies. Although Rhyps has done nothing necessarily wrong, Harpos had requested that he at least be given some kind of formal overlordship over them and crowned as King of the Peuketii in order to bolster his prestige and reflect his continued loyalty to Eretria. Many citizens, however, are concerned that this is too much too quickly, and that such a thing would likely result in the potential execution of many of Rhyps' leadership. The matter now goes to the ekklesia to decide.
[] One King among the Peuketii, one steady hand to deal with, one whelp to crush. What do we care for the fears of the meek in the face of the strong? Harpos has shown himself an extremely capable ruler who is willing to rebuff the Dauni. We can find no such friends among the people of Rhyps, whose only advantage is they cower before us.
[] We cannot simply lay low all our allies when we see fit for the sake of empowering one man. He is capable, it is true, but the people of Rhyps have done nothing to deserve being turned over, and their fear keeps them well in line. There is little fear of them turning away from us, so why give Harpos a further boon so quickly?
[] USER MOTION (Ironanvil1): Harpos shall be King of the Peuketti, but at the hand of Eretria. He shall be elevated in a ceremony at Eretria a year hence, allowing him time to address the fears of the people of Rhyps, where he will reswear his oaths of allegiance in his new role, even as Rhyps swears to him. It will also allow him to reassure himself as to the welfare of his children guesting in the city.
Look to the South...or Maybe the North? Or East? Man, I hate Choice Anxiety
The strangest phenomenon of the year so far has perhaps been that the response of Arpus to the refusal of the deal, the dispatching of the Canosans, and the destruction of his ambitions on the right bank of the Aufidus: He has done nothing. Not an insult, not a quip, not an angry messenger, no raids unleashed upon the Epulian Cities. Sipontion, Garnae and Pylona, all afraid of the repercussions of the Eretrian refusal, have been pleasantly surprised by his quiet. The only interesting news coming from the Dauni lands since the beginning of the new year is the higher volume of Korinthian merchants pulling up to the shore near Salapia and Barletos and trading ceramic wares, before sailing further northwards, besides a few of their ships trading at the mouth of the Aufidus more regularly.
The result has been that the assumption of a war, at least for now, has been faulty, and whatever Arpus is planning is not immediately relevant to Eretria. Although still vigilant, the citizens can at least now breathe easily and turn to other problems. News has been arriving from the north and it is all bad; emboldened by their victories against the Enetoi, the Liburnians are now raiding greek colonies on the east coast of the Adriatic due to the Kerkyrans being distracted to the south and unable to rebuff them. In contrast to their earlier, more disorganized pirate raids, the Liburnians are now moving in packs of three to five ships at a time, usually organized by city and supported by larger packs of Pentekontors. The entire coast between the Pados River (Po River) and the Liburnian coast is dangerous to send merchant ships through, choking Etruscan trade. The only ships avoided by the Liburnians are the Korinthian ones, feared by all in the region for their naval forces. Kallias has suggested that he go north, but if he does he will have to make the journey after the Etruscan city of Arimnus to Atria on foot, abandoning his ships there and taking the safe Etruscan roads. It will be relatively unknown territory, but it at least does not have the danger of random tribesmen attempting to kill him, or his ship being boarded by Liburnians and revenge exacted on him by the vengeful pirates.
Of course, there are also other options. With the Canosan issue settled and Arpus...quiescent, for the moment, it seems that two other good options exist. In the first place, there is the option of going to Metapontion, now augmented by a formal landing at Lykai to investigate the concocted schemes. Kallias warns that he believes that Leontios is likely high in the elite of the city of Lykai if he is there, and that he will only be able to gather information, not prosecute (leaving aside the potential negative repercussions with Kerkyra if Leontios was to be some high-ranking Lykai official in disguise). From there he will proceed as planned to Metapontion, especially with explosive rumors coming out of Sicily that Hiero is deathly ill and that the entire island is waiting on his death before exploding into an orgy of violence. With the borders more secure, a better deal might be exacted from the city, and happenings in the region better explained; he even has with him a volunteer proxenos for the city of Metapontion, who has some family there and would be happy enough to live there permanently in service to Eretria.
Finally, there is one more potentiality. The situation in Hellas has been getting worse, not better. Athens has recently laid low another one of the members of the Delian League, and unhappiness is mounting throughout the association that it is becoming an Athenian empire. The Spartans are still unhappy about Athens in every way imaginable, and although their strategos Kimon is plying a cautiously pro-Spartan route, how long that will be maintained is unknown. Most relevant, however, is that the news from Kerkyra is that they potentially anticipate some Korinthian action; the Korinthians have taken a habit of patrolling a few of their triremes based the Bay of Patras, close to Kerkyra, and then turning when faced with Kerkyran triremes. They seem to be testing the reaction time of the Kerkyrans, or at the very least needling them for some unknown reason. With their increased presence in the Adriatic, an extended mission east to Athens to get a better picture of the situation in Hellas, along with possibly affirming some kind of support from Athens to help Eretria just in case of a war with Korinthos, could be in order. However, doing so would forego for another year an alliance with Metapontion, and with the situation in Sicily likely to erupt soon it could mean Eretria blindsided by events to the south.
---
The choices go before the ekklesia.
[] Dispatch Kallias north to Arimnus and then on foot throughout Padanian Etruria on the road to Atria to build allies against a potential Liburnian incursion, as they are growing bolder every year and could potentially strike at Eretria.
[] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
[] Dispatch Kallias east to Hellas, in the face of growing Korinthian trade in the Adriatic and their needling of the Kerkyrans. If need be, get some kind of assurance that Athens will come to Eretria's aid if Korinthos goes to war, negating their naval advantage.
Celebrated Pile of Rocks Gets His Big Break, To Feature in Upcoming Stone Wall
Treasury: 286.7 Talents
The time has finally come for the famously distracted citizens of Eretria to build a stone wall. However, unfortunately for their poor benighted souls constantly facing difficult choices, there are certain things that they can do with a wall beyond simply building it. In the first place, with the wooden walls to be torn down part by part as the stone wall is constructed, there is an opportunity to considerably expand the areas of the walls. By doing so, the city will leave more room for expanding within the walls rather than having to pay for further expansions in the further. A wider wall away from current buildings and infrastructure would also be more stable and more carefully planned, able as it is to avoid worrying too much about existing dwellings of the citizens as it is built.
Another option that presents itself is to maintain a smaller wall but extend its length along the shore, creating a fully fortified city that is defensible from both sea and land. This is especially pertinent in light of the brush with danger that the city had at the Battle of the Fifty Masts; bereft of a large navy, it is incredibly exposed to potential naval attacks against it from the sea, as well as simple pirate raids. Fortifying the shore and harbour will make it far harder for enemies to exploit Eretria's natural weakness at sea for easy raids or naval assaults.
Finally, there is the potential of keeping the walls smaller but making them especially thick to make them utterly impervious to enemy attack. It will be an extra commitment of stone, but would forego a larger perimeter in favor of being far more stolid, especially in the potential face of earthquakes or other disasters. In particular, a thick wall of this kind would be modeled in the manner of making the city a citadel, with extra storage for grain in the towers to make it even harder to breach.
Of course, all of these options will extend the length of construction by another year, and cost a considerable amount. Should the city want to, it can forego any of these extended plans, but by doing so will be unable to choose them later as the planning and construction of the wall will begin.
When it comes to the building of the new stone wall, there are several options for extensions open to the city. They can make the wall cover a larger area, construct a wall that fortifies the shore and harbour, or construct a wall thicker than usual where grain can be stored to withstand a long siege.
[] We need to extend the wall to cover a larger area, so that we may account for the city's growth and plan it in a more orderly fashion. [-270 talents will cover a larger area of the city, three turns to build].
[] We need to have the wall fortify the shore and harbour, so that we are protected against naval raids and assault. [-270 talents, wall will protect the shore and harbour, three turns to build].
[] We need to thicken the wall to make it impervious to all comers and so that we may store grain in its cavities. [-270 talents, wall will be thicker and extend the ability's to hold out against siege for one year, three turns to build].
[] We cannot afford to have all our money spent on these frills; the wall must be built as soon as possible [-220 talents, default Stone Wall, two turns to build].
[] USER MOTION (Cavalier): We shall open the Sacred Treasury this one time, for the construction of the stone wall is vital to the defence of the city. The funds taken out of the treasury will be repaid into it at a rate no less than 50 talents a year, on top of the 10% annual tithe. With the additional funds available we will extend the wall to cover a larger area so that we may account for the city's growth, as well as the construction of a sea wall, to ward off naval raids and assault. [-320 talents, wall will cover a larger area of the city, wall will protect the shore and harbour, four turns to build, will draw from the Sacred Treasury].
Voting is open immediately and ends at 6 PM EST on Saturday. That's 45.5 hours.
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Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
(I'll also note that I actually forgot to have the proboulos elections, but no one was going to run besides Herodion so it was somewhat of a perfunctory thing)
- Location
- U S of A
I leave for a few days and suddenly people thought it was a good idea to give Harpos lordship of Canosa?
I can't even
Also I'm kinda torn - I kinda want to ally Metapontion BC silence from the Dauni scares me but IC Seldomus is in full FUCK KORINTH mode (and it's a good long term goal for us to push them out of the adriatic)
EDIT: I really don't think that we should give him Rhyps. It's not big enough to be a threat on its own and we've given Harpos WAY too much power for someone whose loyalty is still suspect in my opinion.
I can't even
Also I'm kinda torn - I kinda want to ally Metapontion BC silence from the Dauni scares me but IC Seldomus is in full FUCK KORINTH mode (and it's a good long term goal for us to push them out of the adriatic)
EDIT: I really don't think that we should give him Rhyps. It's not big enough to be a threat on its own and we've given Harpos WAY too much power for someone whose loyalty is still suspect in my opinion.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Really? I would have expected Drako to at least throw his hat in even if he didn't campaign very hard.
- Location
- Orlando, Florida
Let's toss Rhyps a bone for once...
[X] We cannot simply lay low all our allies when we see fit for the sake of empowering one man. He is capable, it is true, but the people of Rhyps have done nothing to deserve being turned over, and their fear keeps them well in line. There is little fear of them turning away from us, so why give Harpos a further boon so quickly?
[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
[X] We need to extend the wall to cover a larger area, so that we may account for the city's growth and plan it in a more orderly fashion. [-270 talents will cover a larger area of the city, three turns to build].
[X] We cannot simply lay low all our allies when we see fit for the sake of empowering one man. He is capable, it is true, but the people of Rhyps have done nothing to deserve being turned over, and their fear keeps them well in line. There is little fear of them turning away from us, so why give Harpos a further boon so quickly?
[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
[X] We need to extend the wall to cover a larger area, so that we may account for the city's growth and plan it in a more orderly fashion. [-270 talents will cover a larger area of the city, three turns to build].
theauthor
Birdie
- Location
- Soerabaja
I'm actually prefer to have a little few strong vassal since their easier to manage. Of course, we need either a strong military or a non agrresion pact to avoid dangerous rebellion.
As for stone wall i'm more concern how to keep supply as long as possible with the stone part as more of a intimidating factor.
As for stone wall i'm more concern how to keep supply as long as possible with the stone part as more of a intimidating factor.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Although Drako's thing tends to be constantly running every single goddamn time, even he has limits and doesn't feel like dividing the city on the eve of a war. It is not necessarily an unheard of thing for people to just step back considering we're speaking of 30,000 people in a very difficult situation here. If Herodion was doing something obviously wrong he'd have a dozen challengers, but right now most of his potential competitors are willing to step back and allow him to win unopposed; for the first time in a while there has been a lot more focus on the outside world and concerns there than internal politics.
From a mechanical perspective, attempting to produce wholly new candidates, or appealing enough old ones, for the sole purpose of people voting for the person we know they'll vote for is tiring. I'm not going to punish the city or reduce its civic tradition for this, but I'd like to reduce the number of wholly pointless elections where you're basically just confirming the old guy in his position.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- Him/He
Would a midway solution for Rhyps be possible? Giving Harpos overlordship over the Peuketii is likely needed at this point but we could have him promise to not go full Canossa on them.
I haven't quite made my mind on where to send Kallias this time around. On one hand Metapontion is the type of ally we need: Greek, close by and with strenght on land. On the other, getting Athens to promess support essentially deal with Korinth single handedly since we are on the period they could take the rest of the med world at sea and have good ods of victory. Decisions, decisions...
I haven't quite made my mind on where to send Kallias this time around. On one hand Metapontion is the type of ally we need: Greek, close by and with strenght on land. On the other, getting Athens to promess support essentially deal with Korinth single handedly since we are on the period they could take the rest of the med world at sea and have good ods of victory. Decisions, decisions...
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Aw, it would have been an easy supermajority.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Although Rhyps has done nothing necessarily wrong, Harpos had requested that he at least be given some kind of formal overlordship over them and crowned as King of the Peuketii in order to bolster his prestige and reflect his continued loyalty to Eretria.
The basic issue is that the people of Rhyps don't really trust such assurances. Whether or not Harpos will actually go full Canosa is something you'd have to try and tease out of what you know about him or at least know about him.
1. Yeah that's part of the problem
2. Supermajorities and pluralities no longer have a mechanical effect; they can still absolutely affect how a decision is interpreted, but I'm not going to subtract civic tradition for a close vote necessarily.
- Location
- Hell
[X] We cannot simply lay low all our allies when we see fit for the sake of empowering one man. He is capable, it is true, but the people of Rhyps have done nothing to deserve being turned over, and their fear keeps them well in line. There is little fear of them turning away from us, so why give Harpos a further boon so quickly?
The Canosans have already served as appropriate warning to obey us or else. I have argued earlier that we risk raising him too high too fast and giving him Ryhps reeks of it.
[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
This feels the most urgent, especially since it appears that there is going to be a dumpster fire soon.
[X] We need to have the wall fortify the shore and harbour, so that we are protected against naval raids and assault. [-270 talents, wall will protect the shore and harbour, three turns to build].
I am partial to the shore and harbour option, boats are the base of our trade and it would kill us quickly to lose our harbour as a port town.
Doubt it.
The Canosans have already served as appropriate warning to obey us or else. I have argued earlier that we risk raising him too high too fast and giving him Ryhps reeks of it.
[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
This feels the most urgent, especially since it appears that there is going to be a dumpster fire soon.
[X] We need to have the wall fortify the shore and harbour, so that we are protected against naval raids and assault. [-270 talents, wall will protect the shore and harbour, three turns to build].
I am partial to the shore and harbour option, boats are the base of our trade and it would kill us quickly to lose our harbour as a port town.
You mean have your cake and eat it too?
Doubt it.
- Location
- U S of A
Can I get support for a user motion along the lines of:
[x] USER MOTION - Allow Harpos to crown himself king of the Peuketti, on the condition that he takes no hostile action towards Rhyps or its leaders.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
This is an acceptable user motion, though cold comfort to Rhyps. It'd be incredibly difficult to prevent Harpos from taking hostile action against Rhyps later and you'd be legitimizing him taking control of the city.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Too wishly washy. If we raised him up it is because we trust him to act in our name. If we don't trust him then we should not raise him up.
Horologer
Incertae sedis
- Location
- a risen sea
@Cetashwayo , one question: can we add on to the wall later? If, say, we forego seaside fortifications in our initial constructions, will we have an option to add that a few years from now?
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- Him/He
Preventing him from purging a city who hadn't shown any sign of disloyalti is hardly unreasonable as a concession.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
At some later time, yes, but not by user motion; I'd probably have it come up as a decision and you'd have to trust in the luck of the draw. Some extensions are harder than others; a wider or thicker wall is a harder proposition than a fortified seawall to add on later.
Besides, things are unlikely to get more comfortable in the future
- Location
- U S of A
Is there some way to more directly incorporate Rhyps into Eretrian hegemony? As the closest Peuketti city, could we claim it as Eretrian territory without having to actually go to war and kick them out?
theauthor
Birdie
- Location
- Soerabaja
But the liege of city of Rhyps will be Harpos and not us so it's fine.
Except i still don't how one ensure loyalty of a vassal here aside from "i'm stronger than you"
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
There's a reason that you are territorially divorced from the barbaroi. Doing so would be more or less declaring you're going to wipe them off the face of the earth, which I doubt either they or Harpos would appreciate.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
[x] We need to thicken the wall to make it impervious to all comers and so that we may store grain in its cavities. [-270 talents, wall will be thicker and extend the ability's to hold out against siege for one year, three turns to build].
The wall is a defensive measure first and foremost and we are surrounded by enemies, we must treat the wall as it was intended. Our greatest shield against the barbarian hordes.
[X] We cannot simply lay low all our allies when we see fit for the sake of empowering one man. He is capable, it is true, but the people of Rhyps have done nothing to deserve being turned over, and their fear keeps them well in line. There is little fear of them turning away from us, so why give Harpos a further boon so quickly?
Rhyps is the most loyal of our vassals, let's not screw them.
[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
We need allies, we have peace in the south but with Kerkya so distracted we need more Greeks to raise their spears for us.
The wall is a defensive measure first and foremost and we are surrounded by enemies, we must treat the wall as it was intended. Our greatest shield against the barbarian hordes.
[X] We cannot simply lay low all our allies when we see fit for the sake of empowering one man. He is capable, it is true, but the people of Rhyps have done nothing to deserve being turned over, and their fear keeps them well in line. There is little fear of them turning away from us, so why give Harpos a further boon so quickly?
Rhyps is the most loyal of our vassals, let's not screw them.
[X] Dispatch Kallias south to Metapontion, to gain allies, investigate the embezzlement tied to Lykai, and get a better read on the situation among the Italian Greeks and in Sicily, where it seems likely that the island's foremost tyrant will soon die.
We need allies, we have peace in the south but with Kerkya so distracted we need more Greeks to raise their spears for us.
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