[X] Don't Build Anything and wait to get money for the stone wall!
[X] It is true that we need money for stone walls, but what kind of protection can we expect to have if we neglect the Gods? Poseidon can send a quake and break stone, Zeus can strike the city with a bolt of lightning, Athene can smash the gates and break down the walls. We must honor the gods or perish. [-30 talents].

Demetrios, son of Lysandros, spoke: ''The gods have been kind of with Eretria, would we repay respond to their boons by neglecting them? The temple must be provided for. Once our duties to the gods have been accounted for, however, we must see to our own defense before anything else. The days when a wooden wall could suit our needs are over. In the future we might very well have to fight fellow Greeks, men's who posses the knowledge and the techniques to prevail over any wooden wall, as we have done ourselves many them. As for the Barbaroi, we might very well have to count our future Barbaroi by nations instead of cities. The good have been kind to us, from a small city we have grown into a city of significant might, a city attracting the eyes and attention of many. The strenght of our defenses should reflect Eretria position in the wider world.

[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Metapontion. We need allies among the Greeks, and if we do not get them we will be diplomatically isolated, relying only on Kerkyra and a pack of barbaroi. Not to mention we can hear more about the state of Greek Italia and Sicily.

''The lands of northern Italy are far, our means of interventions there few. If the Liburnians dare defy us once more we shall crush them like we did at the Fifty Mast, as we have only grown stronger since then while they remain a shadow of their former selves. While learning of the deeds of the Dauni could be usefull and that the Canossans must indeed be made to understand the necessity to serve us with more diligence Greeks must always pass Barbaroi. While far Taras could prove a more fearsome ennemy then any Italian Barbaroi, Metapontion could prove invaluable as an ally. Besside, at Metapontion Kallias may yet learn on the Lucani informations that could prove more usefull then any results of negociations with the Canossans and Dauni. To Metapontion we need to send Kallias.
 
[X] We cannot spend any more talents right now! The money can come later, but for the moment we absolutely must have enough money to fund the expense of stone walls. [No talents paid, Timaeus waives interest on the temple debt]
[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Metapontion. We need allies among the Greeks, and if we do not get them we will be diplomatically isolated, relying only on Kerkyra and a pack of barbaroi. Not to mention we can hear more about the state of Greek Italia and Sicily.
[X] Don't Build Anything and wait to get money for the stone wall!
 
[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Atria in the north of Italy. There are rumors of a Liburnian resurgence, and they are a fearsome lot of pirates who nearly sacked our city. We must make sure that they do not rise again without our knowledge and attack us with a stronger fleet, and gather allies in such an eventuality.

[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Metapontion. We need allies among the Greeks, and if we do not get them we will be diplomatically isolated, relying only on Kerkyra and a pack of barbaroi. Not to mention we can hear more about the state of Greek Italia and Sicily.

[X] It is true that we need money for stone walls, but what kind of protection can we expect to have if we neglect the Gods? Poseidon can send a quake and break stone, Zeus can strike the city with a bolt of lightning, Athene can smash the gates and break down the walls. We must honor the gods or perish. [-30 talents, can be paid next year if you decide to build something].

[X] Don't Build Anything and wait to get money for the stone wall!

Seldomus the Merchant speaks:

"Foremost among the issues we face today must be the sorry state of our temples. How can we call ourselves honest and pious Greeks if this is allowed to continue? Would anyone trust us to be so? I would remind those who speak of walls of stone that even the mightiest fortress is nothing before the fury of the Gods, should they turn against us.

Now, as to Kallias, it is my belief that while Metapontion is a steadfast trading partner, they have always been inclined to keep to themselves - and that may be for the best, given their undeniable might. We should be wary of rousing the sleeping giant, even if we think it in our favor. I say instead we should look to the north, and the Adriatic, which mighty Eusebios opened by strength of arms. The Liburni were smashed that day, but they stir anew in their malice, and threaten to return to menace us again! This is a double danger to us, for if they return to their marauds I, and many like me, will be hard pressed to continue in our trade, which is vital to the continued good fortune of our Polis. However, the Enetoi, barbaroi though they may be, have done us a great service in their campaigns against these foul pirates, and are known to be friendly to us. With them, we have the chance to rid ourselves of this menace once and for all! This is not our only opportunity though, with the removal of the Liburni, new and prosperous trade may be conducted throughout the Adriatic, trade which we are in a prime position to benefit from. Indeed, assisted by our allies, the Adriatic could become an Eretrian Lake! I say we have the opportunity to win Safety, Glory, and Coin in equal measure!

Finally, I think there is no need to impress upon the Ekklesia that with the much mooted wall on the horizon, this is not the time to embark on expensive public projects."

I think we may be able to swing a kind of Adriatic Hansa if we play this right. Think of the buckets of ducats we could be making!

Due to the depredations of the GODS DAMNED KORINTHIANS Seldomus changes his vote to Metapontion
 
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>building anything other than The Wall
Pls no.

@Cetashwayo - Since this post is the beginning of the new turn, should probably edit the last line of turn's financial info to actually say 142 talents (I'm assuming this hypothetical temple expense would be part of the new year's accounting)?
Treasury before Taxation:
212.8 Talents
Sacred Treasury: 437.4 Talents (22.2 from annual tithe)
Income: 221.7 Talents
Taxation: 154.4 Talents
Trade: 47.3 Talents
Tribute: 6.6 Talents (10% annual tithe)
League Income: 3.5 Talents (10% annual tithe)
Theater Revenue: 5.0 talents
Loot: 0 Talents
Misc: 5 talents (Slave to Serf Conversion Fee, Metic Agora Fee)
Expenses: 292.5 Talents
Navy Upkeep: 33.0 Talents
Army Upkeep: 51.4 talents (for six months upkeep)
Trade: 16 Talents
Construction: 140 Talents (Stone Camp)
Theater Subsidy: 10 Talents
Sacred Treasury Contribution: 22.2 Talents
Misc: 20 talents (Herodion's Siege Wall)
Treasury at End Turn: 212.8 Talents



As for the temple's debt...that will cut us literally to the bone. Let's assume our income matches last turn - it of course might not, but need to base our projection off something. That's 142 + 222 = 364 talents from which to pay expenses. Assuming expenses stay the about same, minus the army upkeep and without last year's construction, and we have 364 - 101 = 263 talents. If we were to pay the thirty talents, that leaves us with 233 to build a wall that costs at least 220:
The cost of the Stone Wall is at least 220 talents, but it'll be a major set of decisions in its own right that will have the potential to cost more.
Given what an investment this is, we probably will want some of those frills. It's really not an acceptable wall without a decent paint job.

There is the argument to be made that we're panicking over the wall, and there isn't that much of a need to rush - but that's a shitty argument and you should feel bad for making it, :p. The QM is hardly gonna let up on the changing circumstances and sudden expenses.


So. For now, though I need to think on the xenoparakletor's path some more:

[X] We cannot spend any more talents right now! The money can come later, but for the moment we absolutely must have enough money to fund the expense of stone walls. [No talents paid, Timaeus waives interest on the temple debt]
[X] Don't Build Anything and wait to get money for the stone wall!
[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Canosa and then to the Dauni. We must get a good view of what the poltiical situation is in the area around Eretria, especially among our subjects and the Dauni. They are an unknown quantity and we must secure some kind of assurance from them of peace or else go to war.
 
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[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Metapontion. We need allies among the Greeks, and if we do not get them we will be diplomatically isolated, relying only on Kerkyra and a pack of barbaroi. Not to mention we can hear more about the state of Greek Italia and Sicily.
[X] We cannot spend any more talents right now! The money can come later, but for the moment we absolutely must have enough money to fund the expense of stone walls. [No talents paid, Timaeus waives interest on the temple debt]
[X] Don't Build Anything and wait to get money for the stone wall!

Say no to spending money. We need that wall.
 
I've edited it, the one on the front page was already accurate.
This one? Also still has 212.8.
Population & Military

Eretria Eskhata
Population: 31,801 (3.5% growth per turn)
Triremes: 10
Total Raisable Levy: 3,450 men
Hoplites: 1,925 Men
Sacred Ekdromoi: 500 Men
Cavalry: 375 Men
Kleos Exoria: 50 Men
Psilloi: 600 Men
Maximum Levy: 3,600 men
Civic Tradition & Influence
Civic Tradition: 80

Influence
Aristocratic Influence: 45
Hoplite Influence: 35
Aktimonic Influence: 20

Relations
Metic Opinion: 95
Serf Behavior: Quiet
Buildings
Regular Buildings
Wooden Wall [Fortifications, Tier II]
Land Clearance [Agriculture, Tier I]
Agricultural Wells [Agriculture Tier II]
Meeting Place [Government, Tier I]
Akropolis [Government, Tier II]
Port [Naval, Tier I]
Shipyard [Naval, Tier II]
Shrine [Religion, Tier I]
Storehouse [Siege Defense, Tier I]
Underwater Spring [Siege Defense, Tier II]
Stoa [Trade, Tier I]
Agora [Trade, Tier II]
Odeon [Entertainment, Tier I]
Saltern [Resources, Tier II]
Lumber Camp [Resources, Tier II]
Stone Camp [Resources, Tier II]

Special Buildings
Naval Barracks [Naval, Tier I]
Arkadion [Religious, Tier I]

Under Construction
None
Treasury & Income
Treasury before Taxation: 212.8 Talents
Sacred Treasury: 437.4 Talents (22.2 from annual tithe)
Income: 221.7 Talents
Taxation: 154.4 Talents
Trade: 47.3 Talents
Tribute: 6.6 Talents (10% annual tithe)
League Income: 3.5 Talents (10% annual tithe)
Theater Revenue: 5.0 talents
Loot: 0 Talents
Misc: 5 talents (Slave to Serf Conversion Fee, Metic Agora Fee)
Expenses: 292.5 Talents
Navy Upkeep: 33.0 Talents
Army Upkeep: 51.4 talents (for six months upkeep)
Trade: 16 Talents
Construction: 140 Talents (Stone Camp)
Theater Subsidy: 10 Talents
Sacred Treasury Contribution: 22.2 Talents
Misc: 20 talents (Herodion's Siege Wall)
Treasury at End Turn: 212.8 Talents
Trade

Imports

1 unit of Metals from Kymai (-10 talents per turn due to tax)
1 unit of Metals from Canosa (-6 talents per turn due to tax)

Exports

2 units of Smoked Anchovies to Taras (+20 talents a turn)
1 unit of Lumber to Greece (+10 talents a turn)
1 unit of Grain to Athens (+7 talents a turn)

Modifiers

Weights and Measures: 10% Trade Bonus
Agora: 25% Trade Bonus
Dependencies

Epulian League Relations

Pylona: 135
Barletos: 150
Garnae: 120
Sipontion: 115
Total Tribute: 3.5 Talents

Peuketii Relations

Canosa: 45
Sannape: 50
Rhyps: 70
Total Tribute: 6.6 Talents
Alliances

Gnatia: Full Alliance with the Messapii city of Gnatia, offered to Eretria after they were saved by Eusebios of the Fifty Masts from a pirate fleet.

Kerkyra: In a defensive pact with Eretria after forcing Eretria to abandon its alliance with Taras.
 
[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Metapontion. We need allies among the Greeks, and if we do not get them we will be diplomatically isolated, relying only on Kerkyra and a pack of barbaroi. Not to mention we can hear more about the state of Greek Italia and Sicily.
[X] We cannot spend any more talents right now! The money can come later, but for the moment we absolutely must have enough money to fund the expense of stone walls. [No talents paid, Timaeus waives interest on the temple debt]
[X] Don't Build Anything and wait to get money for the stone wall!
 
[X] We cannot spend any more talents right now! The money can come later, but for the moment we absolutely must have enough money to fund the expense of stone walls. [No talents paid, Timaeus waives interest on the temple debt]
[X] Don't Build Anything and wait to get money for the stone wall!
[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Canosa and then to the Dauni. We must get a good view of what the poltiical situation is in the area around Eretria, especially among our subjects and the Dauni. They are an unknown quantity and we must secure some kind of assurance from them of peace or else go to war.
 
I think we may be able to swing a kind of Adriatic Hansa if we play this right. Think of the buckets of ducats we could be making!

Eretria has what, ten triremes? If we try to play the monopoly game like the Hansa did in the Baltics the true naval power houses can just send a small partion of their navy and deal with it. That does sound like hubris a bit :p
 
Thus was Straton's mood to begin quietly writing plays for the city's theater increased, since the gods must surely smite them if their drama department continued to suck...

"For the last time, Straton, the theatre will not host your play about a young demigod who uses a mechanical bronze colossus to fight the escaped Titans who seek to destroy the world. How the hell do you even come up with this stuff?"
 
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Eretria has what, ten triremes? If we try to play the monopoly game like the Hansa did in the Baltics the true naval power houses can just send a small partion of their navy and deal with it. That does sound like hubris a bit :p

You have 10 triremes, yes. Deploying them for 1 year would cost 132 talents a year :V
 
Eretria has what, ten triremes? If we try to play the monopoly game like the Hansa did in the Baltics the true naval power houses can just send a small partion of their navy and deal with it. That does sound like hubris a bit :p
The strength of the hansa wasn't any one member city, it was an alliance of powerful trade cities working together. With the Enetoi and our Allies in Kerkya, along with anyone else Kallias can convince, we have a real chance at creating something similar.

Edit: I'm not saying we would be the primary city in that alliance but even being part of it would be very much worth it.
 
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The strength of the hansa wasn't any one member city, it was an alliance of powerful trade cities working together. With the Enetoi and our Allies in Kerkya, along with anyone else Kallias can convince, we have a real chance at creating something similar.

Any alliance would be informal, not a formal trade league. The norms of the classical world prevent that kind of cooperation between cultures.
 
Any alliance would be informal, not a formal trade league. The norms of the classical world prevent that kind of cooperation between cultures.
So a trade league is out, but is there any other sort of agreement we could put in place? Like a deal where we agree to buy certain products only from each other the way the Epulian league only buys grain from us? Seldomus wants his $$$$$!
 
So a trade league is out, but is there any other sort of agreement we could put in place? Like a deal where we agree to buy certain products only from each other the way the Epulian league only buys grain from us? Seldomus wants his $$$$$!

Probably not likely. The most you can hope for to start is some kind of anti-Liburnian coalition; if you send Kallias up there to see what the situation is like. There's few guarantees.

Besides, the Korinthians are already pretty active merchants in the Adriatic. They have an Emporion in Atria, which is a bit like a trading post.
 
[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Metapontion. We need allies among the Greeks, and if we do not get them we will be diplomatically isolated, relying only on Kerkyra and a pack of barbaroi. Not to mention we can hear more about the state of Greek Italia and Sicily.
[X] We cannot spend any more talents right now! The money can come later, but for the moment we absolutely must have enough money to fund the expense of stone walls. [No talents paid, Timaeus waives interest on the temple debt]
[X] Don't Build Anything and wait to get money for the stone wall!
 
[X] We cannot spend any more talents right now! The money can come later, but for the moment we absolutely must have enough money to fund the expense of stone walls. [No talents paid, Timaeus waives interest on the temple debt]
[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Canosa and then to the Dauni. We must get a good view of what the poltiical situation is in the area around Eretria, especially among our subjects and the Dauni. They are an unknown quantity and we must secure some kind of assurance from them of peace or else go to war.
[X] Fishing Jetty [140 Talents, takes 1 year to build, will produce three units of Salted Anchovies immediately] Salted Anchoves are another trade resource, and a fishing jetty can encourage fishing among citizens, improving the city's naval and merchant tradition.
 
Probably not likely. The most you can hope for to start is some kind of anti-Liburnian coalition; if you send Kallias up there to see what the situation is like. There's few guarantees.

Besides, the Korinthians are already pretty active merchants in the Adriatic. They have an Emporion in Atria, which is a bit like a trading post.
...
Seldomus blames the Korithians for this.

DAMN KORINTHIANS! CROWDING OUT THE WARES OF OTHER HONEST GREEKS! TO HADES WITH THEM!
 
[X] It is true that we need money for stone walls, but what kind of protection can we expect to have if we neglect the Gods? Poseidon can send a quake and break stone, Zeus can strike the city with a bolt of lightning, Athene can smash the gates and break down the walls. We must honor the gods or perish. [-30 talents, can be paid next year if you decide to build something].

[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Metapontion. We need allies among the Greeks, and if we do not get them we will be diplomatically isolated, relying only on Kerkyra and a pack of barbaroi. Not to mention we can hear more about the state of Greek Italia and Sicily.

[X] Don't Build Anything and wait to get money for the stone wall!

"Build the Wall and make the barbaroi pay for it! Make Our City Great Again!"

- A citizen of Eretria noted for his bombastic xenophobia and that weird hairstyle of his.
 
Given that in these times people probably were not fans of long sieges (cf description of our mood in Akteion or whatnot), wall will probably dissuade a lot of would-be attackers or at least make them think about benefits of wasting two years here.

[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Metapontion. We need allies among the Greeks, and if we do not get them we will be diplomatically isolated, relying only on Kerkyra and a pack of barbaroi. Not to mention we can hear more about the state of Greek Italia and Sicily.
[X] We cannot spend any more talents right now! The money can come later, but for the moment we absolutely must have enough money to fund the expense of stone walls. [No talents paid, Timaeus waives interest on the temple debt]
[X] Don't Build Anything and wait to get money for the stone wall!
 
If (as seems likely) we're sending Kallias to Metapontion, he'll be travelling past Lykai anyway, so laying a case against our dodgy ex seer would seem a sensible addition to the trip, even if we have to pack off a couple of extra people with Kallias to handle it.
Or we get Straton to rendition him to our trireme.
 
[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Metapontion. We need allies among the Greeks, and if we do not get them we will be diplomatically isolated, relying only on Kerkyra and a pack of barbaroi. Not to mention we can hear more about the state of Greek Italia and Sicily.

[X] It is true that we need money for stone walls, but what kind of protection can we expect to have if we neglect the Gods? Poseidon can send a quake and break stone, Zeus can strike the city with a bolt of lightning, Athene can smash the gates and break down the walls. We must honor the gods or perish. [-30 talents, can be paid next year if you decide to build something].

[X] Don't Build Anything and wait to get money for the stone wall!

A lot of our income this year was eaten up by the campaign against Azetion; fortunately we should have enough silver in the treasury next year and then some.
 
[X] Let us send our xenoparakletor to Metapontion. We need allies among the Greeks, and if we do not get them we will be diplomatically isolated, relying only on Kerkyra and a pack of barbaroi. Not to mention we can hear more about the state of Greek Italia and Sicily.

[X] It is true that we need money for stone walls, but what kind of protection can we expect to have if we neglect the Gods? Poseidon can send a quake and break stone, Zeus can strike the city with a bolt of lightning, Athene can smash the gates and break down the walls. We must honor the gods or perish. [-30 talents, can be paid next year if you decide to build something].

[X] Don't Build Anything and wait to get money for the stone wall!
 
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