Sena Kumo
The Tenth Wandering Cloud
- Location
- Portugal
...well played sir/m'am, well played.
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LokiQuest: Re-Reshape and Retry (CK2)
- Thread starter Black King
- Start date
Ok so would you rather have to take an action each 2-4 turns to reapply enchantment. Or use transmutation or forging once and get the bonus permently. Also before you say we can have both then how do you want to raise that science, and forging at the same time.
If you want to raise both for the bonuses then why not instead of 50-50 just dump it all in forging to get the same item or into transmutation to get better material that can get that same bonus.
I mean, there is nothing intrinsically impossible about it, as far as I'm aware.
Making an enchantment that functions to enchant other things, while somewhat complicated... doesn't seem impossible, or even extremely difficult. It's just a line of thought people in Asgard probably haven't had.
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Well, that just makes it useless.
It doesn't have to be machinery. An Enchantment to make more Enchantment etc.
Nice. I admit that you got me. Considering that QM just said that Enchantments need an Action to be reapplied it makes Enchantment useless.
A turn is going to take like a decade in the future. Having to reapply an Enchantment each turn would be stupid.
- Location
- USA
Is there certain things we can buy in the enchantment tree to suck up ambient energy for a passive recharge? What if enhancement is our second magic tree, could we have that recharge passively eventually?
If we forge, we would need separate actions for each of these things, correct?:
- Design roll to come up with idea and Determine what is needed
- Roll to acquire resources to make idea
- Roll to build our forge / workshop itself
- Roll to maintain our workshop itself
- Roll to repair gear
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- Location
- United states
I really don't get people's obsessing over the enchantment tree to the point that they are trying to see if there would be ways to make them permanent despite it being outright stated that forging is pretty much permanent enchantments. Also really not liking that people are trying to complicate an action when it wasn't so last quest.
Then why even give the option to have Enchantment?
Despite QM saying that every magic is almost equal, Forging seems like it's pretty much superior to Enchantment in every way.
Enchantment can probably do more with less, whereas forging requires significantly more general investment but commensurately better rewards
- Location
- USA
Well I want realism. If we have a forge that means we have land we own where it exists, the equipment in the workshop needs to be maintained, we design and tinker with our stuff, and eventually complete it. From there we could sell it, give it to allies and friends, use it, etc.
If all of that is just a roll, that would be very boring and easy and not interesting because of the lack of challenge.
I mean, the dwarves need to build a forge around the star to make stuff, but you want Loki to pull Dwarven quality stuff out of his ass?
If all of that is just a roll, that would be very boring and easy and not interesting because of the lack of challenge.
I mean, the dwarves need to build a forge around the star to make stuff, but you want Loki to pull Dwarven quality stuff out of his ass?
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- Location
- United states
Imagine that they just both have different advantages. While enchanment would let us enchant things right away imagine that it would be limited in a few ways but also quicker in a way depending on the situation. Forging meanwhile would require time and resources but would likely be more versatile and give more options along with the fact that it's permanent and gives access to magitech.
- Location
- United Kingdom
this is an infinite feedback loop, it will not work out, or at least it logically shouldn't work
- Location
- USA
I thought magitech is using science to recreate enchantments? That way with enchantment and science we could find a scientific way to duplicate and make gear that is powered with long lasting battery or build a recharging station for when they are not in use.
Such as the arc reactor.
I mean... not really? Unless we make enchantments that enchant enchantments that enchant enchantments it's not going to be infinite, and so long as efficiency is not one hundred percent, it will never be infinite even so.
The automation enchantment is probably a fairly complicated type, and can likely make only things less complicated than it... so no issues
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- Location
- United states
My issue with things like realism is when it goes too far and leads to people forgetting that magic does not exist in real life. Note that Thor never needed to repair Mjonir until it got destroyed and the person that destroyed it was an extremely powerful being with a lot of magical knowledge. If the Dwarfs make something imagine that unless extreme circumstances are involved you don't really need things like constant repairs and maintenance. I don't mind if we need to work on things like making a custom forge ourselves and getting materials if we want to make the really nice stuff.
Rather just hate the idea of complicating things just because.
- Location
- USA
If we go with forging as a primary focus, it needs to become more involved the more focus we give to it, to give us a challenge / interesting choices to make. That's the nature of quests. More focus on something means more details.
Otherwise the quest becomes very simplistic.
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
Maybe the idea could be combined with actually making the gear. But otherwise you're correct. Also it's possible to make a portable forge, it's just way harder.
Not counting material (since I assume that Enchantment isn't going to make a wooden stick unbreakable), the biggest difference between them is the time we need to put in each.
Enchantment is pretty fast, but temporary.
Forging is pretty slow, but permanent.
Here is the problem:
Let's assume that one turn is one day for Loki, that an Enchantment lasts for 10 years, and that Forging an item takes 1 year.
This means that an Enchantment would last us 3650 turns and can be made in just one turn.
Forging on the other hand, would last indefinitely but take 365 turns/actions to make.
This would make Enchantment extremely OP, and Forging basically useless, since we don't know if the quest would even exist for that long.
But.
Our turns don't take a day. Let's assume that a turn takes 10 years in quest. The same other rules apply.
This means that a single Enchantment would last for just one turn, while the Forged item would last indefinitely and only take one turn (hell, in this scenario we could Forge 10 items per turn).
What I'm trying to say is that with short turns Enchantment would be OP and Forging weak. With long turns, Enchantment is weak, and Forging is OP.
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- Location
- USA
Could we eventually make a machine (or magic device) that when powered, passively recharges enchanted items placed inside of it?
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Enchantment has more on the spot use, allowing us to develop a needed solution in the moment, forge though involves more forethought and likely generally better products with more risk at failure. Is how I see it really.
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
Maybe, possibly.
- Location
- USA
@KnowledgeKing
Also, could you weigh in on the general number comparison of how long enchantment last vs how long it takes to forge something? So we can have a good idea and avoid the dishonest arguments made with fake/made up numbers?
(High dice rolls in my opinion should only improve quality or quantity of forged items, not how long it takes to make)
Also, could you weigh in on the general number comparison of how long enchantment last vs how long it takes to forge something? So we can have a good idea and avoid the dishonest arguments made with fake/made up numbers?
(High dice rolls in my opinion should only improve quality or quantity of forged items, not how long it takes to make)
But considering how long-lived we are (and how much time of nothing happening we have (entire years)) we can Forge items for most situations. Enchantment would be maybe used once or twice.
I'm not saying it doesn't have any use. It would be perfect if we were in the movies right now, with much happening at once.
But over the millenia of our life, Forging will trump Enchantment in every way.
- Location
- The Beginning of the End
[X] Like Nothing Was There, And Yet... (Illusions)
Heh, wouldn't it be fun if Illusions won, and everyone just started to make a repeat of the last thread
- Location
- USA
Also, @KnowledgeKing , if enchantment doesn't take that much time or resources to do, doesnt that mean we could enchant a ton of gear in the time of 1 year?
It would seem odd if we could only enchant 1 item per action when actions are long and getting longer.
It would seem odd if we could only enchant 1 item per action when actions are long and getting longer.