Lets Read: World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War

Honestly these last couple of chapters have been really solid, capturing the claustrophobic atmosphere and mostly letting it play out with less weird brainworms, though sadly not without any brainworms at all...
Yeah. Like, that "copper not optic fiber" thing. If it wasn't for the chapters where Max Brooks plays up the effectiveness of old guns and blames catastrophic losses on advanced communication tech and such, I wouldn't have even noticed. But those chapters exist, so I notice. I wonder why that bit was included, why the interviewee felt the need to specify what kind of wires were used (it seems irrelevant to his point), why he spent time calling out one of the options he didn't use.

My analysis stops being about the practicality or plausibility of the canonical facts established here, or even the writing decisions made in this specific chapter, and starts focusing on how those writing decisions correspond with other writing decisions made elsewhere in the book and point in some unfortunate directions.
 
Yeah, exactly.

Using copper rather than fiber-optic is actually a reasonable decision in this situation! I listed some reasons. But on some level you just know Max Brooks was thinking "older is better." He wasn't stopping and actually asking some expert in telecommunications "so yeah, I'm imagining people stringing phone lines underground to hunt zombies through sewer tunnels hand to hand, really brutal shit, after a massive disruption of the global economy so everyone's equipment is pretty catch-as-catch-can, what would they use?"
 
To be entirely fair about the organ harvesting thing. It's very possible those organ transplants were from China. The organs from a ghoul do not decompose.

It's almost not out of character for China to cynically take advantage of a pandemic to hurt their political foes. The leader of China in real life allowed covid to ravage one of its provinces so he could bring a provincial leader in line with central government authority, by forcing him to take the blame for the mess.
 
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I wake up every single day and thank both Catholic and Protestant Jesuses for sparing me any kind of subterranean combat. The closest we came was having to check the occasional basement or root cellar, and those were creepy enough even though they were actually very easy to handle.

I can't wait to see what kind of nonsense Toddy-boy has told our bold and intrepid interviewer this time! I'm sure he will reveal nothing at all that is deeply telling about the current American psyche or the massive fuckfest the US Government in its various forms has made of almost everything.

The American Junta is stacking up contradictions at a breakneck pace, even by the standards of authoritarian and fascist polities. I don't know which part is giving them the most grief, but they're definitely struggling. I do enjoy the way they're trying to rebuild pre-Z American Capitalism under their current circumstances though. Like, there's plenty of reasons to scorn all the investment bankers and PR gurus and all that stuff but, my guys, you gutted your entire managerial and financial class and told them "Actually those jobs are bullshit, retrain to be a mechanic/farmer/etc." and spent the better part of a decade either directly or indirectly killing anyone who bitched too much about that. The Junta has done a fantastic job in both making those careers socially unattractive and hollowing out their institutional knowledge bases. Don't get me wrong, I don't miss Wall Street types any more than the rest of the world, but you kinda need them for your entire project here.

Edit: Actually you know what, I think the wildest part of their whole deal is the way they've approached their whole underlying belief in the importance of Will. They're sort of trying to ape our old friend Kondo Tatsumi's whole Victory Through Warrior Spirit shtick but America has a rather different legacy of machismo, but not only did their various disasters during the Reclamation fail to get them to consider different tactics (pace OP's argument that they were happy to lose a lot of these people), which is comprehensible because reactionaries are real bad about that, but what baffles is they it didn't even get them to consider different ways to shore up that Glorious American Warrior Spirit. It was exactly the same largely ineffective propaganda from start to finish, "It's vital for the Human Spirit that we do this" *Plays Roy Elliot sizzle reel*. It's like they expected some kind of incredibly charismatic leader to fire everyone up and keep them fired up but they forgot to actually locate such a leader and get them into a position to do it, and they also didn't have a Goebbels behind the scenes. It's honestly shocking the Junta didn't just shatter itself into a hundred pieces, I guess to some extent they were right that Americans were really goddamn horny for taking back America.
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OOC: When I was much younger and more foolish I read and very much liked WWZ, but even then I thought Brooks' fetishization of "old = good" was weird. I mean sure you can argue that a simpler, proven design is a better choice for a gun when you need ten million guns, but then he went all the way to "Actually the apex of warfare, tactically speaking, was Napoleonic." As I've aged I've seen far more of the book's flaws, but I really appreciate this thread because it's both enjoyable and thoughtful, and reveals a lot of his assumptions and biases.
 
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Having no wall and no bars is a risk I wouldn't take, personally. There's not a lot of ghouls left in Quebec, but there's FLQ and adéquiste guerrillas scattered throughout rural Quebec and one bad night can turn a guerrilla encampment into a small ghoul horde.

For what it is worth - do not donate to Quebec Separatists. Do not do it. They are not your friends.
Néo-FLQ. The Front de libération du Québec at least had the dignity to be actual Marxists while they went around accidentally murdering their hostages and pretending it was deliberate. The children trading on their name to justify their banditry, on the other hand? A smattering of warmed-over anti-imperialist rhetoric from the 90s, and that goes straight out the window once the Mi'kmaq come up in conversation.

That trip to Rivière-du-Loup was an... enlightening experience, let me tell you.

All that said, my sympathies go out to the tunnel rats of the world. I keep in touch with folks from where I grew up; cleaning out the Big Dig was on the milder end of things, and even then, the stories I heard still give me the creeps.
 
God I'm just imagining how nightmarish cleaning the various new to ancient stuff under Rome or Istanbul was since people can't even dig in there gardens without finding some ancient hidden pagan cult room or the like.
 
God I'm just imagining how nightmarish cleaning the various new to ancient stuff under Rome or Istanbul was since people can't even dig in there gardens without finding some ancient hidden pagan cult room or the like.
It shouldn't be THAT hard, I mean, it's not like the zombies are going out of their way to dig underground into weird garden pagan cult rooms just to make it more obnoxious to get them or anything. They mostly just stumble around randomly.
 
My group was went to check out of cave system in east Wales for loose ghouls. We'd all been asked if we were claustrophobic (that officer was nice, hope they made it). We we all said no.

To be fair, getting stuck between in a gap a dozen or so inches high, hundreds of pounds of rock above you, with who knows how many ghouls ahead of you can't be counted as "claustrophobia", but I still cussed him out during and after.

Didn't even find any ghouls, just bats.
 
The Italian government only lost Rome for around 6 months, and there were still survivors holed up in the city.

Cities are only as bad as London or Paris when they've been totally overrun for years, which is often - if not always - because the remaining survivors have starved.
 
My group was went to check out of cave system in east Wales for loose ghouls. We'd all been asked if we were claustrophobic (that officer was nice, hope they made it). We we all said no.

To be fair, getting stuck between in a gap a dozen or so inches high, hundreds of pounds of rock above you, with who knows how many ghouls ahead of you can't be counted as "claustrophobia", but I still cussed him out during and after.

Didn't even find any ghouls, just bats.
Hope you guys got rabies shots at least.
 
God I'm just imagining how nightmarish cleaning the various new to ancient stuff under Rome or Istanbul was since people can't even dig in there gardens without finding some ancient hidden pagan cult room or the like.
It shouldn't be THAT hard, I mean, it's not like the zombies are going out of their way to dig underground into weird garden pagan cult rooms just to make it more obnoxious to get them or anything. They mostly just stumble around randomly.
It's only a problem if the ancient hidden pagan cult rooms or whatever were already at least partially excavated, and those kinds of discoveries are presumably recorded somewhere. It's only a problem if someone dug up an ancient temple in their garden, didn't tell anyone, and got eaten by zombies before they could fill the hole.
 
Working your way up through dark, crumbling buildings, floors starting to sag because the waterproofing failed a long time ago, broken windows turning whole storeys into howling windtunnels, cracking open the elevators to clear out any ghouls inside - hoping the damn thing doesn't choose that moment to plummet to ground level and take you with it - and then, without fail, you get to the top and find an impressive barricade on the stairs and a few dozen corpses behind it.
There would be something eerily poignant about trekking up the remains of the pre-fall symbols of power, only to reach the top and find a moment locked in time. It reminds a bit of the Covid years: I was out walking and came across a theater. The feelings it evoked in me, walking past life-size posters of movies that were "coming soon." It felt like the world had broken some unspoken promise.
 
There would be something eerily poignant about trekking up the remains of the pre-fall symbols of power, only to reach the top and find a moment locked in time. It reminds a bit of the Covid years: I was out walking and came across a theater. The feelings it evoked in me, walking past life-size posters of movies that were "coming soon." It felt like the world had broken some unspoken promise.
There is going to be a ton of leftover stuff from the z war for a very long time, like in the real world people still keep on finding skeletons world war soldiers in trees and shit to this very day, so can easily imagine some poor fuck disturbing some decorative ceiling titles stores and the like to use and some dusty skeletons land on them, anyone else have any ideas on some how people will discover such stuff?
 
IC: It's tangentially related to the topic of the last Let's read post. Something a lot of folk don't consider how many depression era building projects included underground water ways and tunnel systems in the most random ass towns. I weathered the war in CB, across the river from those Dickwad Zoomies. The fuckers tooling around in their prop-jobs mostly kept the ghoul swarms concentrated around the little isle they made in the Missouri out of Epply airfield, but sometimes they'd pull a little redeker plan in miniature and lead some of the lingering ghouls against the survivor enclaves that'd popped up in the surrounding suburbs.

I'm rambling. Point was Council Bluffs is absolutely riddled with tunnel infrastructure, and there were enough open air spaces that common practice was to lure ghouls into tumbling down the thirty foot drop into the open air portions and let the seasonal floods running through them wash the filth away, good idea in the flood season, but for ten months out of the year there'd be pits choked with ambulatory corpses. And more then a few folks got tossed into them when they started being "inconvenient" for the Zoomies.

I'm safely in Cuba at this point, so I can say this. There were some communes holding down the eastern edge of town. Centered around Iowa Western Community College, the Socialist rifles battalion of western Iowa had taken it back at during the dying days of the Great panic. I lived with them for a time before the Junta started "preparing the way" for the march into the Red belt. We weren't affiliated with the Red Belt at the time, but that didn't matter to the fascist bastards. Zoomies used up a lot of their fuel leading a big chunk of the ghoul horde into the teeth of our defenses and when we proved too stubborn to die? The Feds sent in the fucking alpha teams.

Didn't even have the courtesy to shoot the survivors when they surrendered. Just tossed them into the ghoul pits. I was away on recon with a team at the time, only reason any of us made it out alive. We were coming back into town via the old scenic highway and got an eyeful of the last of the survivors being thrown into the pit near the old Mercy Hospital. Arrogant bastards were laughing as they did it, all too sure they were safe with the last of the "evil socialists" dead. Turns out spec-ops die like anyone else.

Didn't walk away from it unscathed mind you. We only caught one of the teams and they still killed five out of eight of us. But we got our pound of flesh. Charlie Squad of Second Battalion is still listed as MIA to this day. I can only hope a few of my former friends got their pound of flesh when they tried to clear the tunnels.
 

IC: If I had a nickle for every American taking refuge in Cuba who's originally from Iowa, I'd have two. Which isn't a lot about it's weird that it's happened twice. (The other one is me, if that wasn't clear. Though I spent the war in Washington state due to having been visiting family when the Great Panic popped off.) Though I suppose it isn't that unusual given the amount of former Red Belt folks that are exiled here.
 
To be entirely fair about the organ harvesting thing. It's very possible those organ transplants were from China. The organs from a ghoul do not decompose.

It's almost not out of character for China to cynically take advantage of a pandemic to hurt their political foes. The leader of China in real life allowed covid to ravage one of its provinces so he could bring a provincial leader in line with central government authority, by forcing him to take the blame for the mess.
.... This is entirely ahistorical.

What Xi did was to let Wuhan mayor take the blame for everything wrong with the covid response in Jan 2000, serving as a scapegoat even though part of the issue was the failure of the surveillance system Hu and He guaranteed would work.


To be fair, Covid was so perfectly stealthy that the West surveillance systems failed just as well. Only East and South East Asia "worked", thanks to heeding the warning that yes, a new pathogen is on the loose. Nations which didn't gear their systems accordingly all failed.
 
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.... This is entirely ahistorical.

What Xi did was to let Wuhan mayor take the blame for everything wrong with the covid response in Jan 2000

I was talking about the Wuhan provincial governor in 2020. He got folded into central authority instead of the semi-independent nature that he wielded before due to his prestige.

The CCP party elites do enjoy a certain level of independence, or rather, they did enjoy such a privilege before Xi consolidated his power.
 
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Speaking of China, chinese farmers have always been screwed over for some reason no matter the system they are under probably won't change much in wzs new china either.
 
I was talking about the Wuhan provincial governor in 2020. He got folded into central authority instead of the semi-independent nature that he wielded before due to his prestige.

The CCP party elites do enjoy a certain level of independence, or rather, they did enjoy such a privilege before Xi consolidated his power.
But there was no letting covid ravage the province. Any citations of your fundamental claim?

The actual letting covid leak and become problematic happened under the Mayor, who became the scapegoat. While it's true he didn't believe in the urgency at first, nobody in power DID on Jan 3 . He was also hamstrung by secrecy and other rulings, which highlights the flaw of the reporting system . They became scapegoats because they failed to excel and snip the problem.
 
But there was no letting covid ravage the province. Any citations of your fundamental claim?

There is no citation and there will never be one for Chinese inner circle politics. You are likely to get thrown out a window if you published one.

In many circles though groups of like-minded individuals do discuss said politics. It just so happens that the governor was enjoying a bit too much independence at the time and central authority refused aid, more intent on suppressing the news of the virus than the virus itself.

And what do you know? Governor got folded into Xi inner circle.
 
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