Lets Read: World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War

It's amazing how, even if you were take the interview a hundred percent at face value, it does a very bad job justifying why the Queen staying at Windsor was a good thing. She brought up morale by...existing there? Taking up resources that could have been used in a thousand better ways? Right next door to people who were in desperate need of those resources? I can only imagine the sort of resentment that's still simmering in the area.

I hadn't mentioned it before, but I was one of those who were on the "right" side of the Rockies when everything finally went down. By complete chance, too. I'm from Iowa originally, but my parents and siblings and I were visiting family in Washington state when the Great Panic hit. Obviously at that point we weren't about to try and go back, and we were able to stay with the family we were visiting. Spent my pre-teens and teens growing up under the Junta, bought into a lot of the propaganda. Never joined the military, though. My saving grace was that, despite everything, my family still valued higher education and even we could see that what the U.S. could offer was just...not going to cut it. My older siblings got accepted abroad, I followed their example. I ended up in Cuba. Studied environmental science, got my head out of my ass. Haven't been back to the States since for...obvious reasons.

OOC: Gave making an IC persona a shot. It's actually fairly plausible, if incredibly improbable that my family would have been visiting family in the West when the Great Panic happened. Since I would defo have died if we were in my hometown (which is in Iowa), I took the liberty of using that explanation.
 
I actually knew a guy from the UK who carried around a weapon like that.

Fucker thought moving to the southern hemisphere and carrying around some stupid melee weapon would make him be accepted after that 'brave struggle by the locals', which was reference to that big fuckin boondoggle at None Tree Hill. He stopped carrying it about after like, a week, after people kept making fun of him for it.
 
The new rifle not so much. They could just make M16A2's. 5.56 was made to perform best out of a longer barrel, so shooting one of those is like firing a laser beam. If they can't make polymer or picatinny rails they could substitute with wood furniture. Bit heavier, but it'd make the negligible recoil almost non existent.

Wood swells and the AR-15 doesn't really have good mounting points for effective wood furniture (on the cheap; those wood kits are expensive wood with expensive metal fittings inlaid). Instead, you could and likely would use an aluminum or steel tube (with or without vents cut; most modern civilian carbines use what amounts to an octagonal or round tube with MLOK or Keymod slots cut in it, and so does the XM5/M7) or even the sheet metal pattern handguard normally used with the M203.

Hell, Brooks all but implies that the standard issue carbine was the (X)M8. The M8 tended to have both a red dot and 3X optical sight. I get why producing it would have been difficult but apparently the Junta really wanted to bring back the M14, everything else be damned, even though the M8 would have been strictly superior to the M4 and especially that dog shit... *thing* the Junta built.

EDIT: Oh god. I checked my NAS for this book and found it. how. how do you make a wooden-furniture last-ditch XM8? The answer has to be "cost reduction in all the wrong places".
 
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Wood swells and the AR-15 doesn't really have good mounting points for effective wood furniture (on the cheap; those wood kits are expensive wood with expensive metal fittings inlaid). Instead, you could and likely would use an aluminum or steel tube (with or without vents cut; most modern civilian carbines use what amounts to an octagonal or round tube with MLOK or Keymod slots cut in it, and so does the XM5/M7) or even the sheet metal pattern handguard normally used with the M203.

Hell, Brooks all but implies that the standard issue carbine was the (X)M8. The M8 tended to have both a red dot and 3X optical sight. I get why producing it would have been difficult but apparently the Junta really wanted to bring back the M14, everything else be damned, even though the M8 would have been strictly superior to the M4 and especially that dog shit... *thing* the Junta built.

Clearly he heard from people who still think "the M1 Garand is the greatest implement of battle ever devised" is true.
 
OOC: It's fascinating to see this kind of, I almost want to say orientalization, applied to ones own country.

Dressing up as a Georgian gentleman-scholar with a claymore on your back whilst you sketch a castle is a fucking performance.

I'm not sure if the author is geniunely this naive, or whether he's been ordered to give this guy a blowjob by the junta. The lip quivering suggests the latter to me. The Junta really wants to keep the Royal Government sweet, because they think they can use them as a cut out if the Spanish left comes to power and cuts them off from trade for their manifold crimes against humanity. So they're desperate to keep the royalists onside.

I'll second you on the sword thing to. Everyone just carries a rifle and a side arm. It'd doubly galling because this guy has about as much claim to the nobility as I do. Most of the actual British sword nobility died at Ypres. I'd never defend them but at least they'd have the self respect not to dress up as fucking knights. This guy's father or grandfather aren't blue bloods. They brought into the nobility with the comission on dirty Russian, Lebanese and Colombian money.

More people would survive the war in Europe in Amazon warehouses than in castles [SOURCE], but for all he says he doesn't want to "overstate their importance" he proceeds to do so at length, and subsequently build an entire fucking monarchist mythology around how important castles were.

It wasn't meaningfully a castle which saved his life, either. He's so full of shit I bet his eyes are brown. He survived by clinging like a tick to the crowned hag.

This whole section really strikes me as what I've heard called "Baracadism." where survivor communities want to establish more and more elaborate perimeters to keep out the zombies. In general a good fence or wall will do. Like, even before Plymouth was being cleared, we'd retaken the dockyard, the marine HQ and Royal Williams Yard by the simple expedient of closing the gate and doing sweep and clear through the insides. There was some things we had to do to actually set up properly tight perimeters, but it wasn't a big deal. It's just making sure you've got fence posts that will stand up to a weight of zombies, and maybe some razor wire.

You don't need a castle. The Committee of Captains proved why this is a disease on Wight.

Firstly - it was not. Windsor Castle is halfway into the town of Windsor, just across the river from Slough and barely a stone's throw from London, and has been an indefensible ceremonial palace for most of its life.

The reason Windsor Castle held out is that they weren't satisfied with all the shit they'd already spent on the "Royal Residence" - all the ludicrous crap he mentions they charged the public for to protect the royals - no, this wasn't enough. They deployed the Coldstream and Grenadier Guards entirely to Windsor Castle, and had the paras on standby through the entire war.

When you're staking a claim to be holding a propaganda piece this close to London, I suppose you don't want to risk it. God knows the footage of Buckingham Palace being overwhelmed didn't do them any favours from a propaganda perspective.

To be fair to the royalists, they were pretty clearly just trying to protect those regiments from attrition for the post war period.

Article:
You must find yourself a copy. It's a cracking good novel, based on the author's own experiences as one of the defenders of Caerphilly.

Yeah, bit of a sticky wicket that what? Those ghouls are an awful bunch of bounders.

Fucking hell dude. It's 2033. You're not in a fucking Edwardian public school novel. People don't talk like this.

Fuck Conwy.

A tiny horde - maybe a couple of thousand - was thawing out around Conwy and they weren't looking like they were going to be able to hold out - they'd sent out foragers too early the autumn before, discovered the ghouls were less frozen than they expected, lost about half their fighting fit, and then had a bad winter - so command down in Cardiff scraped together a relief force and marched them on up.

This was before my time, but by my understanding, they'd scarcely dropped the last ghoul before some pearl clutching Tory was hoisting the Union Jack above the town and taking pot shots with what was no doubt his grandfather's grousing piece.

Someone might've forced the issue, but one of the cruisers from the navy's fallback position on the Isle of Man was lurking in the area, so instead they got to keep Conwy throughout the stalemate years.

It was quite useful to them in disposing of their undesirables at first - they didn't believe we would last, so whenever someone started to cause trouble, they'd be shipped down to Conwy and pushed out the gates at speartip. That accelerated once they broke the siege of Glasgow and swelled their population with a bunch of Glaswegians; a girl in my unit - the 1st Orphaned, odds and sods from areas outside of our political control - was from Clydeside.

They stopped doing that when we took Birmingham, treated Conwy as nothing more than a military outpost - they finally used it in '26 as a friendly launch point to crush the hardliner Red Guards who hadn't seen the writing on the wall.

Funny story about Conwy.

During the stalemate period, when were were still only semi officially part of the Republic of Devon, we actually did a run up there. We made our delivery, and loaded up a bunch of stuff, but decided we'd spend the night there because there was supposedly some quite good nightlife. So, we were still a pretty informal crew but I was second in command. The Captain stayed with the boat but I was kind of riding herd, along with Sally, who was our engineer and Tee total. We used to joke she was Tee total and I didn't drink.

So we end up in this pub, and get drinking with some royal naval guys. This was pretty common at the time, even though the Red Guard and the Royalists were occasionally shooting at one another, and RoD forces were occasionally shooting at Royalist vessels that decided to "salvage" some livestock from the coastal farms. We didn't think these guys were a threat. They wanted to know a lot about our boat. Our experiences. Our technical qualifications. Kept coming back to technical qualifications.

They had a bad vibe to these guys. There were three of them and only one was doing the talking. Also, they were constantly ordering drinks for us, but they weren't drinking much themselves. The Welsh Waitress was also getting this blank look whenever she came by, and Sally told me later she thought she looked really uncomfortable.

So I'm not really the best vibes girl, so I was starting to get uncomfortable but not about to action it, when Sally excuses herself, then calls me on the radio from the bathroom to fake that we've got to go back to the ship. She'd worked out that they were a press gang and was full on for us to get out of there before we found a shilling in the bottom of our mugs.

It was a good thing to. A few months later one of our crews did get jacked in Conwy. We never went into royalist territory again after that.

Spain was a marvel. I know people have their complaints; they were always fairly surly with smugglers, and there's the perennial controversy about refugees in the Pyrenees, but it was Spanish built G36s that armed us for the big push. The advantages of there being an actually functional state in Europe cannot be overstated.

It's interesting to me the extent to which the G36K has become the European gun of choice in the way the AR-15 was the pre-war American gun of choice. You get a lot of AKs, various military bullpups, FALs and, Stens and Can't Believe its Not Stens, MP5s for the shorties. Everyone will tell you the advantage of their chosen system, but everyone does most of their actual shooting with their K. There's about a billion firms making custom parts for them now as well, and they're doing a lot of interesting stuff with them.

They certainly beat the shit out of fucking SIRs which royalist units are increasingly forced to lug around. The Paras and the Guards still have their SA-80s and L129A1s and hang onto them for dear life, the Marines have somehow managed to source AR-15 CQB guns, but all of the rest, not to mention the poor old national police are stuck lugging around those heavy ass wood furniture pieces of shit.

The last time I was in the UK I saw a country patrol of bobbies all armed with SIRs. I've never seen a more miserable group. Their weapons were rusted to shit to. Most arms merchants in Europe won't even carry them because their QC is so bad. The poor buggers. They should just issue them Stens, but increasingly everyone they might shoot at has a K and they don't want to take a 50 meter gun to a 200 meter gunfight. Though, christ knows if they're any good in that kind of fight. The National Police are only not in last place for ammo cause of the local police.

Edit: Much as I do love AKs myself, I am forced to say that if you want to buy a gun in Europe today however, the best bet is actually the G36C. Handy, hardy and well engineered, it is hands down the best small arm commonly on the market for normal civilians, militia and paramilitary groups.
 
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So! The specific, personal reason for why this reviewer knows and cares so much about the junta, revealed! I have been weighing up doing this for a while, since about Yonkers?

So from this note I gather that the wife mentioned is the girl that was at Scripps, joined the army and got section 8'd?

The blackhills could have been an actual secessionist hold out. No details on it so it could be written that the army slaughtered the rest of the natives or it was a terrible dictatorship using women as breeding stock.

Given that the depicted WWZ US is now a Junta that strangles democracy I see we went with Indian Wars pt 2, with zombies. I feel kind of meh about the portrayal. A lot of the US military is actually made up of minorities that want college and immigrants that want citizenship. I don't think they'd be okay with slaughtering natives, but this is how we gonna roll I guess. The Army is actually real big on everyone being a leader, better for tactical situations so I would forsee a lot of people getting relieved from command for illegal orders. At gun point.

Also, I'm not saying there aren't white people in the Army. They make up a majority of the country so of course they're there. It's just that the percentages for minorities and immigrants are higher than in the civilian world. On that note a lot of 1SG's and SGM are black women. So I don't think they'd put up with soldiers being shit heads.

Last note. A sad truth is also that a majority of officers are white. Mostly because they could afford college and then decide to be Army. While the rest of us schulbs had to join first to get a GI bill that paid for college.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

Tl;dr. Interesting view on the military. Agree with some parts, not with all of it.
 
IC: There are many things I could say about this. Many things. However, still in Cheddar. Therefore? I shall change the subject.

The Working Museum of Cheddar Gorge couldn't make a decision on Brooks works as a thing due to how we now unfortunately we have no supplies of World War Z as a book. Bookworm is annoying everywhere, we can protect most books but not all. Like how we couldn't protect The Zombie Survival Guide from Bookworm either. Such a shame. And then we had to burn them while we checked the rest of the books to make sure they were okay. And sadly all of our book suppliers told us the same. Bookworm everywhere.

For the foreseeble future we can't stock it due to not getting it in stock. It might change one day. Depending on circumstance. And whether this awful lot of bookworm everywhere in the country goes away. Now, if you'll excuse me, but I have Wall Patrol. We have a nice brazier and we have some lovely firelighters which burn wonderfully to keep us worm ... I mean warm.

OCC: In real life it would take a lot for me to condone book burning. It would require a sheer level of fury I usually can't even begin to muster these days. Also, probably not the most politic thing to post in The UK. However, I'm reminded or reading about the 1919 nearly a Communist Revolution in the UK that was put down by the World War I Tanks the towns and cities had paid for by Tank Banks. And this would probably be worse.
 
So from this note I gather that the wife mentioned is the girl that was at Scripps, joined the army and got section 8'd?

The blackhills could have been an actual secessionist hold out. No details on it so it could be written that the army slaughtered the rest of the natives or it was a terrible dictatorship using women as breeding stock.

Given that the depicted WWZ US is now a Junta that strangles democracy I see we went with Indian Wars pt 2, with zombies. I feel kind of meh about the portrayal. A lot of the US military is actually made up of minorities that want college and immigrants that want citizenship. I don't think they'd be okay with slaughtering natives, but this is how we gonna roll I guess. The Army is actually real big on everyone being a leader, better for tactical situations so I would forsee a lot of people getting relieved from command for illegal orders. At gun point.

Also, I'm not saying there aren't white people in the Army. They make up a majority of the country so of course they're there. It's just that the percentages for minorities and immigrants are higher than in the civilian world. On that note a lot of 1SG's and SGM are black women. So I don't think they'd put up with soldiers being shit heads.

Last note. A sad truth is also that a majority of officers are white. Mostly because they could afford college and then decide to be Army. While the rest of us schulbs had to join first to get a GI bill that paid for college.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

Tl;dr. Interesting view on the military. Agree with some parts, not with all of it.

My view is that if you, as an author, decide to make one of the most famous disputed Native sites in America - one in which the natives continue to refuse the pay-off they could get from the US government - a "secessionist" movement which is brutally crushed by main force...

Then I don't think I should grant you the charity of pretending I don't think you mean the Lakota.

And you will forgive me if I cast some aspersions upon the unwillingness of American soldiers circa 2013 to commit war crimes.

EDIT: also, like; there are explicitly specialist units set aside for this sort of work, in text. maybe every US soldier would not go along with this, but certainly enough would to render the point moot.
 
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OOC: And, like, even through the absolute fascist bullshit... none of it would fucking work? Like, I know republicanism is (shamefully) not all that popular in the UK, but I'm pretty sure even the reddest of gammons would be spitting fucking teeth at the idea Liz 2.0 got special treatment while his wife and children and neighbours all died pointlessly before his eyes.

It's not like Ukraine, where Zelenskyy's presence is actually a morale booster because he's a PR figurehead in the fight against other living human beings, and he spends a lot of his time travelling to solicit aid or talk to front-line troops; the Queen here spends the entire fucking war holed up in one castle doing fuck all, diagetically, but sucking up resources that should have been spent on the UK populace.

And they don't even imply that there was some sort of regular radio broadcast or TV show or anything! You'd think Brooks would at least pull on the whole Churchill myth if he was going for reactionary gammon aristowanking, but he doesn't even do that.

EDIT: Also lol at the idea of using like 90% of the castles in the UK as anything but a place to die cold. They're holier than Swiss cheese, for the most part, and it takes fucking years to pull one back to vaguely-upright standards.

The difference in Ukraine is the Ukranian government did not immediately take the army and flee to Poland and then start talking about how noble was their defence of the nation.

I feel a little bad not having an ic thing, but I was moving into Philly 2013 so I definitely would have got got.

I don't think everyone in the big cities would have got got.

The thing about zombie apocalypses is, while they're unrealistic, you can always imagine surviving one cause zombies aren't actually all that threatening most of the time.
 
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So from this note I gather that the wife mentioned is the girl that was at Scripps, joined the army and got section 8'd?

The blackhills could have been an actual secessionist hold out. No details on it so it could be written that the army slaughtered the rest of the natives or it was a terrible dictatorship using women as breeding stock.

Given that the depicted WWZ US is now a Junta that strangles democracy I see we went with Indian Wars pt 2, with zombies. I feel kind of meh about the portrayal. A lot of the US military is actually made up of minorities that want college and immigrants that want citizenship. I don't think they'd be okay with slaughtering natives, but this is how we gonna roll I guess. The Army is actually real big on everyone being a leader, better for tactical situations so I would forsee a lot of people getting relieved from command for illegal orders. At gun point.

Also, I'm not saying there aren't white people in the Army. They make up a majority of the country so of course they're there. It's just that the percentages for minorities and immigrants are higher than in the civilian world. On that note a lot of 1SG's and SGM are black women. So I don't think they'd put up with soldiers being shit heads.

Last note. A sad truth is also that a majority of officers are white. Mostly because they could afford college and then decide to be Army. While the rest of us schulbs had to join first to get a GI bill that paid for college.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

Tl;dr. Interesting view on the military. Agree with some parts, not with all of it.

everything else aside, most of the current military would have been destroyed during the retreat and reconstituted from conscripts

and the units deployed against the Black Hills were "specialist" units, I'll let you imagine what that could mean
 
So from this note I gather that the wife mentioned is the girl that was at Scripps, joined the army and got section 8'd?

The blackhills could have been an actual secessionist hold out. No details on it so it could be written that the army slaughtered the rest of the natives or it was a terrible dictatorship using women as breeding stock.

Given that the depicted WWZ US is now a Junta that strangles democracy I see we went with Indian Wars pt 2, with zombies. I feel kind of meh about the portrayal. A lot of the US military is actually made up of minorities that want college and immigrants that want citizenship. I don't think they'd be okay with slaughtering natives, but this is how we gonna roll I guess. The Army is actually real big on everyone being a leader, better for tactical situations so I would forsee a lot of people getting relieved from command for illegal orders. At gun point.

Also, I'm not saying there aren't white people in the Army. They make up a majority of the country so of course they're there. It's just that the percentages for minorities and immigrants are higher than in the civilian world. On that note a lot of 1SG's and SGM are black women. So I don't think they'd put up with soldiers being shit heads.

Last note. A sad truth is also that a majority of officers are white. Mostly because they could afford college and then decide to be Army. While the rest of us schulbs had to join first to get a GI bill that paid for college.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

Tl;dr. Interesting view on the military. Agree with some parts, not with all of it.

Significant portions of the US military in the 19th century were also made up of poor people and minorities (aside from the famous 'Buffalo Soldiers' there were tons of Germans, Irish, Italians, and other European immigrants who at the time were not considered properly American or white) and they went along with murdering the Native Americans just fine back then. I don't see why that would change now, given enough exposure to military hierarchy, actual honest-to-God hardship and suffering, and social pressure that comes with being a good soldier who obeys orders.

The US Army to this today continues to follow illegal orders and do illegal shit and no one blinks an eye, so I think you have a rather rosy view of how a potential draftee army in the literal post-apocalypse would respond.
 
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oh also, your daily reminder that as of 2019's report on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls Canada just sort of officially states that it's currently engaged in a genocide of it's indigenous population and like... no one cares? and all the recommendations have been quietly ignored? it's just a thing I have to live with

and the United States doesn't exactly have a happier relationship with it's conquered indigenous subjects, never under-estimate the ability of a settler state to carry out the destruction of its indiegenous population, no matter the era
 
Why does he keep describing how attractive the childlike women are and how childlike the attractive women are? It's a very odd choice when you are just talking about, like, a military officer?

Thank you. It was very creepy in the book and I don't know why he keeps doing it. Just ugh.

The whole chapter honestly was meh in the book. Didn't add much. Just a meth head with ptsd.

Interesting take about how all the military is on opiates and the junta is happy to keep them addicted. Probably taking note of the opiates they handed out during the 2003 invasion. Those guys didn't rush to Baghdad on on prayer and water alone.

Probably explains how atrocious things got when soldiers just care about the next fix that only big daddy government can provide.

More people would survive the war in Europe in Amazon warehouses than in castles [SOURCE], but for all he says he doesn't want to "overstate their importance" he proceeds to do so at length, and subsequently build an entire fucking monarchist mythology around how important castles were.

It wasn't meaningfully a castle which saved his life, either. He's so full of shit I bet his eyes are brown. He survived by clinging like a tick to the crowned hag.

This whole chapter is just unleashing both barrels. It's great.

You really capture the bitter resentment towards the current government and how she was betrayed by her leaders.
 
Dressing up as a Georgian gentleman-scholar with a claymore on your back whilst you sketch a castle is a fucking performance.
The posing this prick does for the author here is amazingly funny to read having encountered said prick once. I remember it distinctly, as he was carrying the same ridiculous sword and dresses like some pre-war toff on a pheasant shoot. Bumped into him post war at Caerphilly castle when I was on site organizing the rebuilding of the south-east tower, when this twat runs up to me during the demolition complaining about us 'ruining the rugged beauty' of the castle or some shit. Had the joy of laughing in his face and telling him to bugger off, while Caerphilly now enjoys having a nice new emergency storage depot.

Which is another thing about fucking castles that he just glosses over; they're pure shite to clear out later when your idiotic defence fails. Ghouls don't care if you're hiding in a priest hole or a servants corridor - they can smell you, hear you, sense you in that evil, ineffable way. No, the people who get ambushed in a castle are the people clearing it.
Got called in to help assist/provide advice during a few of these. Nasty business. The worse one I ever dealt with, was early war when I got called in to help sweep Coity Castle, a utterly tiny place on the north side of Bridgend. It became packed with people during the panic who were then promptly turned, either due to someone who was bitten getting in, or the patch jobs to the walls failing. But god was it awful to sweep, ghouls round every dam corner and filling every pit in that dam castle.

Fire was a nearly constant blight on smaller survivor communities.
Saw far too many burnt out holdouts over the years. Had a few close calls myself.

They got their castle set up just in time for the rest of the population of Anglesey to be evicted and sent to Holy Island to "secure" Anglesey proper for the retreat.
And the government still doesn't even have the decency to apologies for that shit show. On a unrelated note, isn't funny how royalists seem to occasionally disappear while in North Wales. Such a strange occurrence.

I am honesty split between blaming the American author for not checking this, or wondering what the hell the prick being interviewed is on about, as Ludlow is 10 miles over the border in England!

Camelot Mine is a good book. I wouldn't read it if you want to know what "really" happened at Caerphilly - there's some intense flights of fancy regarding how many ghouls attacked, how much was done by this one dude and how long it had to hold out, but it's entertaining.
Nice to see that book mentioned. Author is a surprisingly decent guy despite his rather overblown portrayal of himself and the creative liberties he took, there is a reason he keeps getting voted onto the town council. Still mocked to death every time he goes for a pint though.

They built a proof of concept for fortified motorways
Those things are both a colossal wast of time and money, as well as being death traps. There is a reason the Welsh Goverment has rejected any and all plans to build them in Wales.

This isn't quite unique to the royalists - arriving survivors would occasionally have a museum piece polearm or what have you - but it is increasingly a symbol of being upper class
Yep, you used to see all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff, now its mostly shuffled back off to the museums. Its a pity the royalists haven't as well.

"The highest of distinctions is service to others." [He clears his throat, his upper lip quivers for a second.]
Christ this is gag worthy. Though utterly on type for the prick.

Workers' Party of Great Britain
Treacherous bastards. If the elections weren't being buggered to hell and back, they likely wouldn't even be a minor party.
 
Spain was a marvel. I know people have their complaints; they were always fairly surly with smugglers, and there's the perennial controversy about refugees in the Pyrenees, but it was Spanish built G36s that armed us for the big push. The advantages of there being an actually functional state in Europe cannot be overstated.
So it was the Spaniards who did this in-universe instead of England?
 
Then I don't think I should grant you the charity of pretending I don't think you mean the Lakota.

And you will forgive me if I cast some aspersions upon the unwillingness of American soldiers circa 2013 to commit war crimes.

Fair and believable. Thems the breaks when it comes to Manifest Destiny the sequel.

That's actually very funny considering I was a soldier in 2013. Made me chuckle. Not in zombie apocalypse America, but we had our own problems in those times. Nothing like the later 2010's when they found all the bodies on Hood (Cavazos now).

Significant portions of the US military in the 19th century were also made up of poor people and minorities (aside from the famous 'Buffalo Soldiers' there were tons of Germans, Irish, Italians, and other European immigrants who at the time were not considered properly American or white) and they went along with murdering the Native Americans just fine back then. I don't see why that would change now, given enough exposure to military hierarchy, actual honest-to-God hardship and suffering, and social pressure that comes with being a good soldier who obeys orders.

The US Army to this today continues to follow illegal orders and do illegal shit and no one blinks an eye, so I think you have a rather rosy view of how a potential draftee army in the literal post-apocalypse would respond.


I'll give you that. I'm basing most of this on the prewar volunteer army. With conscripts a lot of that esprit de corps goes out the window.

I forgot about the specialist units too. Which does indeed make the point moot.

The slide into atrocity is a slippery slope.

I'm actually super super stoked to see what happened to North Korea. 23 million zombies, Autocratic hell scape, Metro 2033 style factions fighting in tunnels, or some sort of paradise where everyone is happy (lol).
 
My God. I know what this is.

At the tail end of the war, and for a few years afterwards, there was this stupid panic among certain European nationalists about all the radio broadcasting. I've seen it with British, Spanish, and French fascists, although it would not surprise me if it spread further. They were worried that years of people listening to anonymized broadcasts instead of media from their own region would destroy national dialects and accents. Ignore the reasons that's nonsense; they wanted a rationale for being racist to the people on the boats and found one.

So yes, for a little while there were English gentlemen going on about how saying "cor blimey" and "bloody wanker" at every opportunity made you a better patriot than the next guy. I really thought it had died out completely. It's hard to find evidence it even happened, both because records from that period remain scattered and because it's so fucking embarrassing that those who participated would rather it be forgotten. But the people who organized this book somehow managed to dig up a true believer.

What a guy to interview, eh?
 
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At the risk of Godwinning, this is exactly what the Nazis did. You don't want to do the war crimes? Okay, all you need to do is walk away. We have People For That.
That's a chilling thought, that one of the reasons we got so many "honorable Wehrmacht combatants" (besides blatant deceit) was that there was a vast number of German soldiers who were willing to grab a drink and pat themselves on the back for being especially good people while their comrades pillaged Europe in the most brutal ways possible.

"Hey, Hans, what's up?"

"Ah, Dieter. We butchered a Jew woman."

"That's horrifiying."

"Well, not everyone can do it."

"I'd like to think I'm better than that. See you at camp?"
 
And the government still doesn't even have the decency to apologies for that shit show. On a unrelated note, isn't funny how royalists seem to occasionally disappear while in North Wales. Such a strange occurrence.

I think everyone in France is sorta wondering how long it's going to take for England to either blow up into an insurgency or balkanize honestly. Like, and those of you over there can talk about it... or not, with more authorities, but as a travelling merchant every so often, the impression I get is that it's more and more unlivable. You basically have to pay off local officials and cops to do most everything, and the shakedowns are quite unpredictable, so it's hard to even factor them in as the cost of doing business.

That and the decision to increasingly hunt down Red Guard veterans rather than just allow them to live quietly is eventually going to blow up in the Royalists face.
 
Just finished reading this whole thing in one go. Great stuff – I haven't read WWZ in years, and it's mad to see all the stuff my mind just glossed over at the time (and just as neat to see it rewritten and recontextualised in such a way)

Weirdly I think the best interpretation of the zombie apocalypse I've seen was actually in a series of YA novels – Charlie Higson's "The Enemy". A legitimate reason for it to be so apocalyptic (everyone over 14 was affected and turned over about a month, and its only been 1-2 years since), making full use of the concept of zombies being living people fucked up by sickness (honestly one of the most chilling portrayals I've seen, because even as decaying, shambling cannibals, it's still often clear that these were, and are, sick people – there's generally at least one or two chapters per book from the perspective of an infected, and damned if it isn't always creepy as it is sad; really something more of this genre ought to do), and actual acknowledgement of human capability – they're all dead or full-gone now, but it's clear from the evidence and memories we get that even with everything rapidly coming apart at once, even in a scenario that was unwinnable from the very start, the governments and authorities of the world acted as competently as they could, as effectively as they could, as long as they could, until there was literally no one left to do so.

Sorry for the slightly tangential wall of text there, just wanted to talk about a series I used to enjoy as well as the bizarre retrospective realisation that some books with a target audience of 13 year olds somehow managed to handle a zombie apocalypse better and more originally in some ways than an adult bestseller whose main conceit is realism.
 
Now this chapter I remember vividly, mainly because I was bewildered that old royalty would matter so much when I read the book all those years ago. In retrospect, I took Max Brook's presentation of the UK at his word and only thought, "Oh jeez, I guess those british people must be culturally attuned to worship royalty for some reason." It kind of seems... Occidentalist? I don't know if that's the right word..
 
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