Let's Read: Warhammer 40,000 Codexes and Star Wars RPG Sourcebooks (Dark Eldar Reviewer)

IC:
What's everyone doing, these days?
My Regiment's currently training up PDF while we're integrating the new recruits, had a bad interaction with some Techno-Beastie while seconded to a Tech Priest.

Probably going to get some leave soon in one of the nearby Arcologies, been hearing some good things about the people there.

They're even handing out food for free!

we Dark Eldar would never do such callous acts of violence
Four Words:
Flying Armored Torture Drone.
 
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IC:

...You are a member of the oldest still-prominent Galactic species. You, as I understand it, live in a vast extradimensional city-state constructed in defiance of what most sophonts would call the basic laws of reality, and it works very well for you. And it was built by the hands of one of the most advanced and far-reaching empires the galaxy has ever known, namely your own.

I gather that in those days, your species' disdain for more primitive beings was once a thing of legend. And that the list of more primitive species was all of them.

Now, your people are clearly not a civilization of star conquerors now, though some others' remarks on Biel-Tann are noted. But it would seem that they have enjoyed most of the possible rewards of exploring, conquering, and exploiting galactic space that can possibly be enjoyed, to the fullest, long before any of us were born.

The question is, then...

How, philosophically, does one disentangle the benefits of living in a vast and mgihty megastructure built by a galaxy-bestriding empire, from a disdain for colonialism and conquest?

I think every successful species has to wrestle with at one time or another, on one scale or another. But the Eldar's version must be very large indeed. I wonder what they would say about it.

@hellgodsrus , I could ask the same of you, and be very interested indeed in your answer as well. With the caveat that your vast city-state is, I gather, not extradimensional.

IC:

Among my species, the most closely analogous judgeships are never not self-appointed? How else would you do it?

IC:

...Our analysis suggests that you may have gotten the project specifications wrong. This is usually what happens when a spectacularly wealthy customer commissions a spectacularly unsatisfactory work.

Of course, there may be hidden effects when one scales up to individual entities who command resources greater than my entire species' gross civilizational product; I gather that you occupy depths of opulence unknown among my kind's history.

...

OOC. And now for the outtakes!

OOC, but you can imagine it IC if it's funny:

...Would not the latter trait make the former command spectacularly unwise? If not, my ignorance of human anatomy is even greater than I had believed.

OOC, but you can imagine it IC if it's funny:

Ahh, that might explain it.

I suppose my answer to that is similar to my cousin's, and I would continue that I was not alive during those halcyon days. I bear little responsibility for the crimes of the past, but you are correct in that I should recognize that my current luxury does in fact derive from that past exploitation.

I support a more equal galaxy, however it may come to pass.

Just like Mother and Father wouldn't've wanted.

OOC: Also, the Astartes reviews should be more objective and less emotionally incendiary, so I hope they appeal. Either way, thank you for sticking by the fic, and you don't have to read anything that causes you distress.

IC: In short, 'with great difficulty'.

More seriously, neither Commoragh nor any Craftworld, despite their age, are the direct products of the Aeldari colonial period, being produced in the era afterwards as previously discussed. However it is undoubtedly true that such places couldn't exist without the fruits of that colonialist period.

Ultimately though? There is nothing that can be done about that. I wish there were. Truly, I do. But many of the races so harmed by our people in the past no longer exist, and those that do - what reparations price should I give, for the blood trickled down from my ancestors? I think the best approach I can have is to ensure that I, and others around me, never act in that way again, and are as kind and gracious to all other races and peoples as is possible.

Cousin, the dreams are plaguing me again, of Mother and Father and great fleshy bugs. How do you sate your dreams, if you have them? I understand that our...perceptions of reality can be variable.

At least the Seamstress's Kabal is...Pardon me, should I do some work for the Seamstresses in the off-season? They are, erm, sophonts of negotiable affection.

IC:

My Regiment's currently training up PDF while we're integrating the new recruits, had a bad interaction with some Techno-Beastie while seconded to a Tech Priest.

Probably going to get some leave soon in one of the nearby Arcologies, been hearing some good things about the people there.

They're even handing out food for free!


Four Words:
Flying Armored Torture Drone.
Yes, yes, the Dark Eldar way of war is focused on pain. Ours is less harmful on a grand scale but more interesting and dramatic. If there must be war, it may as well be interesting and artful.

Oh, and I hope you're doing well with the PDF, I hear they are...not always competent. As for the food, you may want to be careful. Free food on some planets can be a committment of an odd sort.
 
Codex: Adeptus Astartes, Part 1
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Racilia
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The book starts with a front cover that depicts… well, let's just say I'm pretty sure there's some artistic liberties going on here. Gimme a sec to figure out screenshots and y'all can check it.

Ah, here we go -


So, first up, it's a picture of the 'Ultramarines' - which, incidentally, isn't the proper name for them, but it's stuck so much it'd get confusing if I called them by their proper names. Now, I got nothing against the boys in blue personally - got issues with their Primarch, but none with the chapter itself. They've all got sticks up their asses the size of pine trees, but hey, they're not the Templars. The issue is, you can't find a piece of propaganda about us Astartes - especially for this wargame - that isn't putting them front and centre ahead of other chapters, even ones where there are warzones none of the Blues are deployed, or in situations they're not best suited for -

Like, I get it. They're clean cut, their colours pop on posters. And since Guilliman woke up, it's not surprising the emphasis has been on them. But fuck, they're good all rounders, not the 'first and best' of us.

Secondly, what is going on with this artist's depiction of our armour? Yeah, it's bulky - it needs to be - and a lot of work goes into maintaining it, but what it doesn't have are pauldrons so big you can't do any kind of lateral arm raise without cracking the seals. That would be a total fucking design failure. No-one would wear armour like that on a battlefield - sure, we had some ceremonial gear that's that restrictive, for rites and shit, but no-one's wearing it onto the field, specially nothing as bad as that poor Chaplain in the back seems to have on. Nor are they dragging what looks like a shredded litany scroll outside their armour - yeah maybe you might tuck a few pages into your pockets of your underarmour for luck if you're especially religious, or you might keep a few specially treated waxes as an amulet in honour of your armour passing sanctification, but having something tangling around like that - s'a neat artistic image but it's not realistic, y'know?

Thirdly, what the hell is being fought here? There's some fire and something that looks maybe like a 'nid just below the central guy - also why is he using a Stalker Boltgun like that, sidenote? - but otherwise it looks like some kind of defensive position got completely fucked up by everyone piling into each other like eejits instead of actually entrenching worth a damn - again, artistic license, I get it. Sorry.

We then get two straight pages of greyed out, horrifying rows of screaming faces with grills shoved into their mouths. No idea what the fuck that's doing here.


Three images of three different Astartes head up the next page - one's still the Blues, but we also get what looks like a Fists librarian in termie armour, and maybe a Raven grimacing at something (probably whoever stuck those waxes to the outside of his armour), and the first bit of actual text.

'They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them and in the furnace of war I shall forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns shall they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines such that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines ... and they shall know no fear.'
- The Emperor of Mankind

An' of course it's this quote. So, firstly, this quote is hella apocryphal. People say shit all the time and are then like 'oh it was said by the Emperor'. Think there's, what are they called, memes about that?

But, to be fair, it is the kind of thing I could see him saying - in one of those big, martial speeches. I don't think it's at all useful for knowing anything about us, or about the Emperor's view of what we were meant to be. S'like a lot of what we'll come across here - propaganda, yeah? Of course you're going to say your troops know no fear. What, you going to tell Johnny Noble 'actually, my troops are full of fear all the time'? No that's fucking stupid. Course you're going to say no-one can beat them in a fight.

Then we get some heraldry and the table of contents. And some thanks to various playtesting groups, cluding one called the Mournival which seems in slightly poor taste but what do I know.

Ah, the Introduction, with an additional image of some of the minifigs all posed in way too close battle formation to a buncha Necrons. No idea why that gunship's flying so fucking low. Anyway -

Welcome, brother, to Codex: Space Marines, a tome dedicated to collecting, painting and gaming with Space Marines Citadel miniatures. Packed full of information regarding the warriors, vehicles and leaders of the Adeptus Astartes, as well detailing their organisation, heraldry and peerless skill at arms, it contains vital lore for Space Marines collectors.

Huh. Lemme just check.

Yeah this is placing a lot more emphasis on buying their shit. Kinda feel a bit ripped off that the Leagues and the T'au and whatnot get some cultural emphasis while this one's just like 'buy our shit, have two or three themed words'. Like, look at this -

Few factions in Warhammer 40,000 have such an extensive range of Citadel miniatures as the Space Marines. Whether you are a hobby veteran with numerous service studs to your name, or a neophyte brand new to the Warhammer hobby, you will find something in the Space Marines range that fires your imagination and fills you with inspiration.

Also, gross to appropriate having service studs or being a neophyte to describe someone who's bought enough of your shit, my guys. I earned mine each after campaigns that saw me fighting for decades on end.

And I get it's a gimmick. S'like, trying to get the average guy to feel like one of us. Make them see us as more like them. Sympathetic magic of words kinda shit. Just pisses me off more than I expected.

Anyway, it then continues to talk about all the cool models you can have and the wide range of gear we've got, now purchasable in miniature form from them for a few weekly payments of most of your soul. And like, even when they touch on what we're like, it's still so fucking commercial. Look at this shit -

Each Space Marine belongs to a Chapter, an independent fighting force. Over a thousand Chapters exist, all with unique heraldry and visually strong colour schemes. There are few more impressive sights on the tabletop than a fully painted Space Marine army arrayed for war. For any hobbyist, this is an incredible opportunity to make their army their own, experimenting with their favourite colours and delving into their imagination to invent epic origin stories and tales of victories for their warriors. For those who find the pull of narrative play impossible to resist, this Codex includes bespoke additions to the Crusade Forces rules found in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book, tailored to the Space Marines.

This book is replete with stunning artwork and glorious photography, showcasing the Space Marines in all their grim might and terrifying splendour. Each has a story to tell about the Adeptus Astartes, whether it be of their bravery, sacrifice, traditions, organisation or how they wage war. Each is but a glimpse into the lives and ways of the defenders of Humanity, and a source of inspiration.

Emphasis mine. Am I being over sensitive here? S'not like we're being called monsters like the Drukhari were, or being portrayed as mindless like the Nids, or whatever was going on with the T'au.

But to see them pat themselves on the back for getting people to buy us in bulk just feels…

Oh we got the rest of the picture on the cover. It's the Black Legion they're fighting. Thought the fire looked a little like Warpfire. Legion don't look right either, but, well, that's easier to forgive. Not like they're fond of posing for portraits.

The Space Marines are the Emperor's will made manifest. They are his Angels of Death, descending to the battlefield from mighty warships to cleanse the foes of Mankind from the face of the galaxy. For ten thousand years the Space Marine Chapters have been Humanity's shield and sword in the face of the horrors that beset it.

I mean. It's not wrong. Doesn't mean it's right either. We're not his will made manifest in the way this means.

I guess it's true in the sense that his will created us, shaped the rites and rituals that are still part of us. But we're not, like, some continual extension of his plans and stuff. I'm sure he's got bigger problems in his rest than personally guiding us all like pieces on a board.

Angels of Death - I've never liked the term, but again, it's not entirely wrong. We do have some pretty mighty warships we descend from. Been a bit more than ten kay years I'm pretty sure but - yeah, as summaries go, this paragraph ain't too bad. Hell, we even tend to get sent to the worst stuff, so the 'horrors' isn't the usual xenophobia and theocratic shit either.

Genetically enhanced supersoldiers, they are among the greatest warriors to have ever existed. They are stronger, faster and more resilient than the Humans they are sworn to protect. They are psycho-indoctrinated from youth, rendering them immune to fear and staunchly loyal. On the battlefield they are relentless, determined warriors who will stop at nothing to achieve victories nigh on impossible for unaugmented soldiery to achieve.

This is where things fall apart a bit though.

First up, common misconception. We're not 'genetically' enhanced. Well, not - not like that. Can't go spilling the full secrets of the surgery and stuff. S'all technically classified, still, I think? I mean, a lot of it's common knowledge by now - the organs and time periods of neophyte stuff I mean. The implantation order. Anyway, point is, we're surgically enhanced with genetically enhanced organs. Different.

Second - greatest warriors to have ever existed? Shiiit, if I said that to an Aeldari it'd be a fast route to bleeding out. I don't know if we're even among humanity's best. 'Stronger, faster, more resilient' than average humans - sure, though the way it's setting us up as superior -

I dunno, not comfortable with that. We are - different from humans. Unaugmented humans. That's inevitable. And we only really find brotherhood and understanding with each other. But we're not better. Just different.

Thirdly - no, we're not psycho indoctrinated, no more than the Astra are. We're not immune to fear. And if we were all staunchly loyal, there wouldn't be any Defectors would there? If psycho indoctrinating tech existed, you could bet it'd be used more widely than just on us. S'made up. The fuck does psycho indoctrinated mean anyway?

Last line's fine. Bit too worshipful, but fine. We're sent into tough, impossible situations, and do try and pull wins out of our asses, pushing on and on.

In the Era Indomitus, the Imperium is assailed as never before from both within and without. The Space Marines hold firm, meeting the onslaught head-on with unbreakable faith in their hearts and oaths on their lips. They are the champions of Humanity, and they know no fear. Defeat is only for the enemy, and while one Space Marine stands, hope remains for the Imperium.

And then there's this. Firstly, no-one fucking calls it the Era Indomitus. Stop trying to make that happen. 'Assailed from within and without' - ooh that's a fuckin classic fascist dogwhistle, I can almost hear the guy who wrote that biting his lip with how fucking clever he is, how much his boss will pat him on the back. 'Unbreakable faith' -

So. Us Astartes we - we see the Emperor a bit differently? It's not just that, y'know, he kinda made us directly, and in a sense through his 'sons' we all carry a piece of him, but it's also that - I dunno. We do think he's a god but he's not… the gilded throne, the eternal worship, the vast choirs. Our prayers are quieter than that? More like talking to someone in a quiet room/ Someone you know understands and listens. I don't like us being co-opted like that.

Well, I guess the Templars worship like that, they're completely fucking nuts about that sort of thing. Them and the Platinums.

Already mentioned we know fear. 'Defeat is for the enemy' - well ideally, yeah, but with the earlier stuff this is kinda gross. The while one marine stands thing is -

I just really hate us being made into strongmen. Maybe it's the men part that bugs me, maybe it's that we're already so separate and different that having it be presented as us being better can lead to Grey Knight problems, if left unchecked.

Fuck me I'm rambling. We're only 6 pages in. We've got another Artistic Choice image, take a look -


Did we really need the censer hanging in front of his dong? The serfs with glowing eyes doing that - whatcha callit, the meme with the circular mouth? Why's there one whose face is a dog skull? Why's he got a gizmo in his abs? And grabbing two tesla coils?

What did they say about the artwork again? That it showcases us in all our 'grim might and terrifying splendour'? Yeah that's one word for it.

Every Space Marine is a mighty warrior, a champion almost beyond compare. These post-humans are heavily augmented, the products of years of arduous training, agonising surgery and psycho-indoctrination. It is a process of arcane and horrific science, one which not all inductees will survive. Such are the sacrifices Mankind must make to weather the storms that batter it so ceaselessly.

More jerking us off about how great we are, and that fucking word again. Psycho indoctrination. I'm going to go fucking look it up.

… okay, ignoring all the kink shit about how Astartes need to be made susceptible to hypnosis for some fucking reason (????), and the conspiracy theories, it literally just means indoctrination of the mind. Which, like, yeah? That's just being trained as a soldier from age ten. There's no fancy gizmos in it! Fuck me, stupid fucking… you already covered it with the arduous training! Why are you having it here other than - oh the know no fear thing. Rightrightright. We have to be psychologically changed to be superior. Can't be too close to stinky normal humanity, despite humans being meant to be the best. Of course.

Won't disagree on arcane and horrific science though.

It is only thanks to the Emperor's skills and knowledge that the Space Marines exist. Only he knew the subtle arts and infinitely complex nuances of gene-craft. It was his vision that led to the creation of the Primarchs and the gene-sons that followed from them, and the arcane alchemies he developed have since allowed generation after generation of Space Marines to serve the Imperium.

Wouldn't say that only he did. Didn't he lead a big fucking project of people to make the Primarchs and eventually us? Definitely his vision though, but this implies he did all grunt work as well.

For all their phenomenal physical prowess, the incessant and intense warfare that Space Marines fearlessly endure sees even these mighty warriors suffer casualties.

Some real weasel words here. They have to admit we suffer losses, in both senses, because that's undeniable, but they've spent so long wanking us they have to carefully wriggle round to admitting that.

To avoid extinction, every Chapter must constantly recruit fresh warriors. How these individuals are selected varies enormously, each Chapter having unique and sometimes clandestine methods by which it conducts its recruitment. All aspirants are youths, for if selected at too mature an age their bodies will reject the implants, derived from a material called gene-seed, they need to become Space Marines. All have to pass immensely tough trials, whether it be crossing vast distances of extremely inhospitable country with few supplies, hunting local megafauna with naught but a sharpened stick or any of a hundred other tests of physical or mental fortitude. Many fail, the lucky killed in their efforts and those less fortunate lobotomised and turned to mindless servitors.

So this starts out fairly right, then devolves into groxshit quite quickly. Chapters do vary in how they do recruitment. True. Those methods are usually clandestine. True - I'm not going to talk about any I know about here, that knowledge isn't for you. All aspirants are young - true, the organs need to grow with us. Immensely tough trials - yeah, that's a not bad way of putting it.

Where it falls apart though is - like, okay, first, you give an example, only one, like, that's just bad writing. Rule of three, c'mon. Secondly, your example is some real fascist strongman bullshit. Maybe some Chapters do that, I'm not going to speculate, but this is a story that's pretty directly lifted from ideas of how the Spartans were trained in prehistory and stuff. Nah. The trials aren't like that. S'more about making sure you're a good fit mentally for the Chapter - the physical stuff can be taught later. It's a classic strong thrive weak die narrative, not helped by the lie that those who fail get lobotomised and turned into servitors -

No. If you fail and you're not too hurt, you can stay on as an aux, generally speaking. If you fail and you're pretty hurt, most Chapters pay your medical bills, send you home. If you fail and you're going to die, they ask - and if you okay it, you can donate your body as a servitor. Only way that happens. Fucking - lobotomising failures, what the fuck. Is this what the Imperium thinks we're like? Monsters only held in check by our 'psycho-indoctrination'? Angels who would kill them without a second thought?

To be a Space Marine is to be subject to hardships and horror that ordinary Humans cannot begin to comprehend, and the chosen must be prepared physically, mentally and spiritually.

… I really do not like the tone of this. Once again we are placed separately and above - even spiritually which -

I suppose if you buy into the Ecclesiarchy line about the Emperor, then we do possess some spark of divinity, but I don't believe the Emperor was divine in flesh, he was divine in soul. Us containing a fragment of a fragment more of DNA in common with him in our implants means very, very little, in my opinion.

Over a period of years, aspirants are put through an extremely harsh process. They are trained rigorously in diverse styles of combat, how to wield the Space Marines' weapons and operate a number of their vehicles. Relentless martial training is interspersed with periods of hypnotic suggestion, prolonged meditation, psychological and spiritual testing and gradual initiations into the Chapter's rites, history and traditions. In addition to this, they receive their implants.

Again with the hypnosis! Is this genuinely someone's kink?

The rest is relatively accurate, though I think the idea that this training is more challenging than what Sanctioned psykers must go through, or what Aeldari do when becoming Aspect Warriors, or even how the Schola Progenium tends to train its pupils is kinda silly. We're training to be soldiers, just like anyone else.

Except, maybe, for the implants.

The gene-seed implants are specially grown organ grafts. Some serve to give the Space Marine unique abilities, such as the Betcher's Gland, which allows them to spit poison. Others enhance existing abilities, such as the Sinew Coils, which dramatically increase strength and durability.

I dunno why if you're going to list two you wouldn't just list all nineteen - sorry, twenty two if you're counting the new ones. Like, they're all technically classified, if you're going to mention two of them -

And the Coils aren't even grown! They're the only ones which aren't and are purely cybernetic! Which is part of why - fuck, getting outta order. I'll get to the Primaris in a bit.

Implantation of these organs must occur in a precise order. Why, exactly, is unknown to even the most adept Apothecaries.

Completely untrue. Can't say the actual reason though cause, again, classified. Not going to spill my beans on this one. So I guess it's fair enough to think it's some arcane lost knowledge.

Gene-seed is a finite resource, impossible to manufacture without the implants known as progenoid glands that have matured within the body of another Space Marine, and the recovery of these should a battle-brother be slain is of the utmost importance.

Makes it fucking sound like a resource in a damn game. You don't spend x geneseed to get y implants. S'like a plant, from what I've heard the Apothecaries say. You need to keep the plants growing, so you need clippings for new plants for when the old one dies. That's it. Throne above…

Despite every effort to maintain the purity of gene-seed, quality levels vary between the Space Marine Chapters. The Ultramarines' is highly regarded, a source of pride to the great number of Adeptus Astartes Chapters that can trace their lineage to Roboute Guilliman. In contrast, the Imperial Fists' gene-seed is missing the genetic information to create certain specialised organs.

Look, first of all, Fists don't have those organs because they've decided they don't need them - which, fair enough, number of times I've had to use my Betcher's for anything other than fucking around with my squad is pretty minimal; I genuinely don't know if the Emperor was having an off day when he decided we needed to spit acid or if there was some real need for that kind of thing in the days of the Conquest. It's not because of some 'loss of purity'. Warp and hellfire.

Second, holy fuck this writer's sucking off Primarch Guilliman hard.

In addition to the nineteen specialised organs that almost all Space Marines have been implanted with since the First Founding, the Primaris Space Marines possess a further three. These organs enhance their physiology to an even greater degree, making them yet stronger and tougher.

… gonna try and not be weird about the Primaris. I have thoughts on them though.

Stronger and tougher is fair though. Fuckers literally have steel cables stuck inside their muscles, course they're stronger and tougher.

It was only thanks to the Sangprimus Porturn - a device that held potent genetic material harvested from the Primarchs themselves - that Archmagos Belisarius Caw! was able to create these biotechnical miracles. In the Ultima Founding, many tens of thousands of Primaris Space Marines reinforced depleted Chapters or formed new ones. Since then, many Chapters have used these technologies to develop their recruits into Primaris Space Marines.

Emperor knows how hard I'm trying here…

The biggest breakthroughs of all, however, were the surgeries that allowed Space Marines not matured with the three Primaris organs to be implanted with them. Arguably first braved by Marneus Calgar, Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, this extremely dangerous set of procedures lasts for days. Many others have since risked their lives in such a way after witnessing the undeniable battlefield capabilities of the Primaris Space Marines in action.

It's extremely dangerous cause it's a takeover. Yeah, yeah I know conspiracy bullshit but I'm serious, the shit in your brain - and everyone who goes Primaris looks a little bit more like Guilliman, thinks a little bit more like him because Throne forfend we don't all fucking kneel for our returned saviour, leader of the gloooorious Blues, who makes -

Sorry Berta, I know I'm making a lot of noise.

Doesn't mean you're allowed in the kitchen.

No -

No put Mama's boots down.

Come on, put em down. You're not allowed to eat those.

Did you gnaw through the gate latch again?

C'mon, out we go - don't try and gore me…



… huh, okay so the speech thingy picked up on all that. Uh, that's my goat, Berta. Uh. Think I needed the interruption to help me cool off a bit.

Look, it's what I think. I don't know if it's true or not though, so. I'mma leave what I said there, let y'all make up your own minds.

Next up is a section (purportedly) about the various Chapters (really it's mainly about the foundings). Apparently it isn't the same kinda text as the rest, so I'm gonna have to copy it out more directly; apologies if that leads to some inaccuracies.

It is believed that over a thousand Space Marine Chapters - independent, autonomous armies - fight the Emperor's wars. Nine are named for the Legions that remained loyal to the Emperor during the Horus Heresy, others are Successor Chapters, brotherhoods who claim genetic descent from the nine loyal Primarchs.

Okay so, quick note - we Astartes don't like calling it that. The HH, I mean. Names for it differ but. Even if they aren't loyal any more, they're still our sibs. So it showing up here feels a bit… weird to me. Off? But that's like, personal culture stuff we don't necessarily share much so - not blaming the writers for this one.

Rest is relatively accurate? Like - 'named for' isn't quite right, they just are the Legions after the Second Founding, and acting like the others are lesser is kinda a dick move, acting like the only thing that makes them important is their genetic heritage… but by the standards of previous stuff it's fairly mild.

Over the millenia, the number of Space Marine chapters has waxed and waned [...] but their existence has been deemed so vital to Humanity's defences that there have been a number of Foundings throughout the millennia. The decision to initiate a Founding is one of such magnitude that only the High Lords can authorise it, and only twenty-seven such events are believed to have occurred.

I cut out a bit here because it was more rambling than even I'm prone to - it's marked with the [...].

Anyway, this whole bit isn't wrong exactly - but it isn't really right either.

Official Foundings - sure, the High Lords are the ones who sign off on the big waves. But if a few squads or a company or two have a Chapter Master's blessing, they can just go off and make their own Chapter. You have to either backdate all the paperwork, or have it be 'part of' the next wave of Foundings in official records, but. Not much can really stop it, especially with the big Chapters that are really twenty Chapters in a trenchcoat and occasionally one hops out of the corvus armour to go throw on scout BDU and do its own thing.

The very first Founding was the creation of the original twenty Space Marine Legions by the Emperor himself. In the aftermath of the Horus Heresy, Roboute Guilliman's Codex Astartes decreed that the Legions be broken down into smaller brotherhoods called Chapters [...] These flexible fighting forces were to number little more than a thousand warriors across ten companies, and many dozens were formed. This was known as the Second Founding.

Again with calling the Schism that. Feels weird. Anyway, I'm personally never comfortable with calling the original Legions the First Founding, but that's a me thing.

There are no defined intervals between Foundings; they are launched as and when the High Lords - and thus, the Emperor -

HOLD THE FUCK UP.

Did this book just -

Oooh these writers are lucky I'm retired and not, like, some ultra-fanatic. Because implying the High Lords somehow represent or are the Emperor's true will is some real nonsense. Fuck me, I'm not that religious and that pissed me off. How have they not been ripped to pieces by a mob for this sentence???

Uh, anyway.

There are no defined intervals between Foundings; they are launched as and when the High Lords - and thus, the Emperor - decree, and there are no rules in place limiting how many Chapters can be created.

Ignoring what I said above, this is basically true. If you ignore the massive heresy, I mean.

The book then talks a bit about various Foundings - the history that got lost to the Reign of Blood, the big cliche Foundings there are superstitions about - and other than jerking off the Ultima Founding by calling it the 'largest and most significant to date' simply because it let them make Chapters entirely of soulless Primaris, it's not that bad as a general summary of things. Like, it seems to be taking the superstitions about the 'Dark' and 'Cursed' Foundings as facts - including their numbering, the so-called 'Dark' Founding was not the thirteenth, that's straight up triskaidekaphobia - but it's not bad.

Even if every Space Marine Chapter operated at full strength [...] the number of Space Marines would likely not exceed one per Imperial world. Thus, the Space Marines have to decide where they will fight and where they will not.

…this is just basic tactics. Yeah, on an operational level, you have to decide where you're deploying assets. The writer here makes it sound like some big unexpected thing, some special limitation on the Chapters, which is really weird.

Some fight for personal honour or to uphold ancient vows, whilst others make war only where the Emperor's Tarot dictates, or according to strict pragmatism.

And this just makes us sound like superstitious assholes.

Regardless, wherever they fight, the Space Marines butcher their foes and crush them beneath their ceramite boots.

… hey so I have a new theory 'bout the writer of this. Given that. Because, uh. You don't - that is -

They don't love Guilliman or us. They hate us. All that 'Astartes are better' weirdness? That's not, like, awe, that's hatred. All the stuff about us turning people into servitors, torturing kids to prove they're worthy of being trainees… shit. I think whoever wrote this genuinely fucking hates us. Weird to get someone who hates Astartes to write the book on them. But I guess it fits with how they write the xenos armies too.

Shit, is there anyone these Games Workshop people actually like?

… unless that sentence is meant to somehow be admiring. Like the fact that we butcher people is so fucking cool. Which might be even worse.

There's also a basic blurb about the Primarchs on this page, but it's the usual myth making, nothing really relevant.

Think I'll stop there, for now. Got a lot to cover. I think I'm going through these a bit slower than the gladiatrix but. Hey, this is my review, I do what I want. Racilia, signing off.
 
IC:
If there must be war, it may as well be interesting and artful.
Well, it'll have to depend on what your personal 'Worst' would be.

I feel like a torturous death is worse than a quick and clean death.

Oh, and I hope you're doing well with the PDF, I hear they are...not always competent.
PDFs are... generally willing to learn. And depending on what type of world it is, you might even be able to offload your Civies and Conscripts for some PDF Recruits, and significantly reduce downtime for training and integration.

Though a lot of times 'Training PDF' really means sitting on a base until your unit is back in fighting shape.

Angels who would kill them without a second thought?
Counterpoint, Black Templars. They're basically *everywhere*, are worse than the member about Commisars, and your average Guard Grunt is statistically going to encounter more Templars than any other Marine, simply because of sheer numerical differences.

Can't say the actual reason though cause, again, classified.
Well, I can guess:
Because that's how Genemods and Cybernetics *work*. Like, there's no reason to implant the *giant armored plate* into the Torso before you have the third lung, no sense doing the Bones before you're done breaking them open, that type of stuff.

Augmentations work from the Outside In, not out of some sorcerous mechanism, but from raw practicality.

Primaris are 2 different types, the 'Born from a Tube, Trained by a Program' types, who don't really have a personality because they have maybe three months of actual life experience, then the 'Normal Aspirant but with extra Bits' which are... well, they're a little weird because they have a lot of the Quirks removed, but other than that, they're just... normal Marines.

As for like, Astartes Hate? Better explanation is that these 'Codexes' are written for the super rich people, the types that hear that a Psyker rampaged and get upset they weren't able to watch.

So, like, the 'reality' for these people is so twisted and warped from the 'facts' that they... simply wouldn't accept anything other than the most overblown and cherrypicked interpretation.
 
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IC:

Well, it'll have to depend on what your personal 'Worst' would be.

I feel like a torturous death is worse than a quick and clean death.
Well, I personally would rather experience a painful and unique death than some droll bullet to the head. I'd rather go out being a canvas than being garbage.

Of course, one should minimize pain during and outside of wartime for the non-consenting, but given that war is horrifiying inherently I see a Pain Engine as being little worse than a firebombing run or a Deathstrike missile launched at a city.

One beautiful death is a tragedy, but surely many boring deaths are a greater one?

I do hope that doesn't sound callous, these sorts of tragedies should be avoided either way. I seem to have a way of putting my knee into my mouth.
 
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Racilia
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Also, gross to appropriate having service studs or being a neophyte to describe someone who's bought enough of your shit, my guys. I earned mine each after campaigns that saw me fighting for decades on end.

Emphasis mine. Am I being over sensitive here? S'not like we're being called monsters like the Drukhari were, or being portrayed as mindless like the Nids, or whatever was going on with the T'au.

But to see them pat themselves on the back for getting people to buy us in bulk just feels…

I guess it's true in the sense that his will created us, shaped the rites and rituals that are still part of us. But we're not, like, some continual extension of his plans and stuff. I'm sure he's got bigger problems in his rest than personally guiding us all like pieces on a board.

So. Us Astartes we - we see the Emperor a bit differently? It's not just that, y'know, he kinda made us directly, and in a sense through his 'sons' we all carry a piece of him, but it's also that - I dunno. We do think he's a god but he's not… the gilded throne, the eternal worship, the vast choirs. Our prayers are quieter than that? More like talking to someone in a quiet room/ Someone you know understands and listens. I don't like us being co-opted like that.

Well, I guess the Templars worship like that, they're completely fucking nuts about that sort of thing. Them and the Platinums.


… I really do not like the tone of this. Once again we are placed separately and above - even spiritually which -

I suppose if you buy into the Ecclesiarchy line about the Emperor, then we do possess some spark of divinity, but I don't believe the Emperor was divine in flesh, he was divine in soul. Us containing a fragment of a fragment more of DNA in common with him in our implants means very, very little, in my opinion.

I do not think that you are wrong to feel that the author is prejudiced towards you. I think many of these Codexes seem to find one or two traits in a group and then generalizes them such that the author can see them as subhuman for those traits. Dark Eldar are degenerate rather than free, Kin greedy rather than trapped in capitalistic expansion, Space Marines soldiers rather than humans, and so on.

It's all equally dehumanizing, and shows that the authors seem to believe that their "great heroes" are weapons more than individuals.

(Sister Vandire: On the subject of faith, I...absolutely believe that the Emperor is divine in flesh. I think that is fundamentally important to the Imperial Truth. Still, I will say that worshipping the Emperor in spirit is better than not worshipping him at all, and I am sure in the Afterlife he will greet you with honor. You've shown yourself to be a valiant and faithful servant even with that heresy, and I have nothing but pride and admiration for you. I hope someday to die with a fraction of your merit.)
 
I do not think that you are wrong to feel that the author is prejudiced towards you. I think many of these Codexes seem to find one or two traits in a group and then generalizes them such that the author can see them as subhuman for those traits. Dark Eldar are degenerate rather than free, Kin greedy rather than trapped in capitalistic expansion, Space Marines soldiers rather than humans, and so on.

It's all equally dehumanizing, and shows that the authors seem to believe that their "great heroes" are weapons more than individuals.

(Sister Vandire: On the subject of faith, I...absolutely believe that the Emperor is divine in flesh. I think that is fundamentally important to the Imperial Truth. Still, I will say that worshipping the Emperor in spirit is better than not worshipping him at all, and I am sure in the Afterlife he will greet you with honor. You've shown yourself to be a valiant and faithful servant even with that heresy, and I have nothing but pride and admiration for you. I hope someday to die with a fraction of your merit.)
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Shit, this how you do replies? Guess it is, uh -

Okay, firstly, Vandire, you have to know my opinion is common among Astartes. Like - thought it was fairly common knowledge? As far as I know, we aren't heresy in the official sense - or maybe we are and y'all and the Ecclesiarchy aren't set to jump us. I don't know. But him being flesh makes us divine too and we aren't really super comfortable with that.

Because, well. We are kinda more soldiers than humans. That doesn't mean we're out there as brutal monsters crushing people beneath our boots though. Just means that given what we are, given how we get set apart, our focus is on each other and the mission more than, like... I dunno, more than most civilians, I guess. Though again, not like we're different from those who pass through the Schola in that regard.
 
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Shit, this how you do replies? Guess it is, uh -

Okay, firstly, Vandire, you have to know my opinion is common among Astartes. Like - thought it was fairly common knowledge? As far as I know, we aren't heresy in the official sense - or maybe we are and y'all and the Ecclesiarchy aren't set to jump us. I don't know. But him being flesh makes us divine too and we aren't really super comfortable with that.

Because, well. We are kinda more soldiers than humans. That doesn't mean we're out there as brutal monsters crushing people beneath our boots though. Just means that given what we are, given how we get set apart, our focus is on each other and the mission more than, like... I dunno, more than most civilians, I guess. Though again, not like we're different from those who pass through the Schola in that regard.
(Sister Vandire: Yeah, but the Emperor not being divine in flesh has real theological implications. The gene-seed of the Space Marines isn't scripturally as divine as the Emperor, it just means you're made of a holy relic, which makes you sanctified but not gods. His flesh is divine, but when not connected to the Emperor it just becomes a relic.)

...Aren't you humans and soldiers? Being a weapon must be a burden.

(Sister Vandire: It is, yeah. Also, uh...I kind of got a bit passionate there. I just...like talking about theology.)
 
(Sister Vandire: On the subject of faith, I...absolutely believe that the Emperor is divine in flesh. I think that is fundamentally important to the Imperial Truth. Still, I will say that worshipping the Emperor in spirit is better than not worshipping him at all, and I am sure in the Afterlife he will greet you with honor. You've shown yourself to be a valiant and faithful servant even with that heresy, and I have nothing but pride and admiration for you. I hope someday to die with a fraction of your merit.)
IC:For the Artisian-Clans and our highly unique circumstances(we see the Golden Throne and are loyal to the emperor a lot but we don't like the High Lords and the Custodes have a dislike of the Ecclesiarchy) we have a version of the Imperial Cult that's a bit..unorthodox but still legal.We believe tha tthe Emperor was divine before he went on the Golden Throne,he isn't divine now but it's affected by the fact he needs to savrifice so much time and energy keeping the Webway portal closed, the sin of having to sacrifice psykers to keep the Emperor alive and the fact that the warp and reality itself is fundamentally tainted and without a future.Eventually there will be two events- the first is that somehow the Emperor will heal himself and our sins and especially the actions we took to ensure his health with the Psyker sacrifice will be forgiven,this is the on we really hope and pray for.The other result is if we fail in our duties and the decadence,brutality and decay of the past ten thousand years continue- The Throne will break,the lucky one will die in the initial birthing and the Three Brothers will be created.The First is Complicity who along with the souls of every person sacrificed to the Throne will torture us until the stars grow cold and the universe dies,the second is Hubris who will end any attempts at improvement and the third isthe Tyrant-In-Waiting who will make even the Chaos gods scream and rule among the fractured pieces of Terra. There's a image I see in the church I go too that sums them up pretty well (OOC they aren't blatantly astartes like the picture but they have general outline of one that a observer who saw a Astartes could realize that they originally looked like the image below but toned it down enough for it not to be heresy by showing Astartes as what essentially amounts to the Beast Of Revelation times 3)


OOC:He kinda worships the Imperial Cult version of Gnosticism-the whole evil God thing mixed in with Thorianism(idea that Emps becomes a god after he leaves the Throne) and what essentially amounts to Apocalyptic Christianity.
 
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OOC:He kinda worships the Imperial Cult version of Gnosticism-the whole evil God thing mixed in with Thorianism(idea that Emps becomes a god after he leaves the Throne) and what essentially amounts to Apocalyptic Christianity.
OOC: I talked about this with some of the other contributors, and I would like to request that people roleplaying did not introduce new large aspects of the setting like this without asking me OOC here or in PMs in advance. As that process was not done and this is a lot of lore that does contradict with my plans for the setting, this post unfortunately cannot be canon.
 
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OOC: I talked about this with some of the other contributors, and I would like to request that people roleplaying did not introduce new large aspects of the setting like this without asking me OOC here or in PMs in advance. As that process was not done and this is a lot of lore that does contradict with my plans for the setting, this post unfortunately cannot be canon.
Okay.I will PM you next time.
edit:I'll actually PM you right now just to have a system of communications set up and to prevent this from happening again.
 
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Codex: Chaos Daemons, Part 1
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OOC:
Content warning for mind alteration and general creepy demonic shenanigans.


IC:

(Sister Vandire: So, Ynathe recruited a lunatic to help with the reviews, a heretic psychopath.)

I don't think that's fair.

(Vior Or'es: She scares me.)

(Ashlee Viola: I know psychopaths, she isn't one.)

(Antimony: Contacting a Tzeentchian daemoness is a very bad idea.)

I promise you all, none of it is as big of an issue as you are thinking! Asking a Daemon Princess for help reviewing this wargame through my good friend Tai was a perfectly rational thing to do!

(Vior Or'es: This seems like denial, which is a very serious problem that should be addressed.)

I promise you, the Magician is just as normal as you or I!

(The Magician: It's so grand to be typing with my mind / If you stop now, you'll miss me greatly / Come on, girls, don't be so hasty / Antimony, oh, xe just owes me / Don't stop now, your courage broken / See, I've just barely spoken! / Pray to Him, it sure doesn't scare me!)

(Sister Vandire: I just had the horrible vision of a beautiful, aesthetically simplified Daemon Princess in a black skirt, heels, and a top hat singing at me.)

(The Magician: Don't be foolish, just ask nicely / All I bring is hope — not pricey / Oh, how I know you all will thank me...)

...Well, erm, this is my friend-of-a-friend, the Magician, and she's the expert on all things Daemonic.

(The Magician: Thrilled to be here, thrilled to know you / Oh gosh I think I can see right through you / Oh my that T'au thing looks tasty / Fear me not, I mean it metaphorically / Eating friends would be acting abnormally / for me and I promise I'm quite nice!)

(Sister Vandire: I can feel you.)

(The Magician: Well, ladies and others, step right up and witness this here marvelous, splendiforous, mighty-fine wonderous little review here, courtesy of the Greatest Showwoman in the Galaxy! Germs and nonexistent gents, are you ready for a stupefying demonstration of the wisdom and wit of a Daemon Princess?)

She's in my mind!

(The Magician: Anybody? Anybody? Do I hear a hand raising high above the heads of my adoring audience?)

Felicity, I love you. I've always loved you. I never want to go with out you in my life. Would you please date me, I promise all I desire is to give you luxury beyond your wildest imaginings.

(Sister Vandire: I know, but where's this coming from?)

I'm trying to change the subject!

(The Magician: Well, well, well, sounds like our Mistress of the Mystic's audience is having a bit of a blast of emotion! Oh, I've been watching and waiting / Knowing your friendship is straining / Oh stars, what changes will break, here?)

Please, Felicity, please say "yes"!

(The Magician: Come now, you silly little nun / Aren't you going to to have a little fun? / There's all sorts of drama we'll make, here!)

(Sister Vandire: I don't think I can take you up on the offer. I've been an asshole to you, Ynathe. Most of this I've spent yelling at you, and I'm just not good enough to deserve you.)

(The Magician: Oh, no! What a calamitious bit of comprehensive confusion! Well, let's fix that up with a bit of Daemonic pep!)

(Sister Vandire: I...I...I want to...I want to be with you...I want to love you...I want you...Yn...I...I'd do anything for you...I'd sacrifice anything for you...I want to be good enough. I'd leave the Sisters of Battle for you...)

That isn't Felicity.

(The Magician: No, no, no, that's her true self, and her true self wants to leave the Adepta and with a bit of helpful nudging she wants to join the real heroes. You get your girlfriend, she gets to be happy and hopeful, and the God-Emperor of Mankind loses a nun. Everybody wins, it's a win-win-win! Don't you want to win?)

(Vior Or'es: This is a very effective means of doing good, though I would advise you to seem more approachable. People might think you are evil if you talk in this sinister manner.)

(Ashlee Viola: She ain't good or evil. She wants to give people hope. That it.)

...Felicity, are you happy?

(Sister Vandire: Oh, by the Golden Throne, I have...Oh god, I can leave. I can leave this dump of an organization behind and be with you.)

It is an age where the darkest dreams of Humanity are surpassed daily by the stark horrors of their reality. The galaxy overflows with nightmares made flesh. Yet even in these dread times there are powers of such inimitable malevolence that the mere knowledge of their existence must be suppressed, lest it shatter the resolve of all Mankind. But innocence is not the same as safety. Through the tattered veil of the real, from amidst the roiling madness and infinite corruption of the warp, the daemons of Chaos spill forth to claim the souls of the ignorant and the dreadfully enlightened alike, and to plunge all of reality into final and everlasting damnation.

(The Magician: Well, this all seems quite funny / Willful ignorance is for such dummies / The idiocy of this paragraph is beneath you! / Danger is a term relative / All we ask is that you forgive / Our presence in the universe that made you! / Did you know a nightmare is just a / dream thought by someone unexpected / ly thinking of joy in the wrong way? I promise after the nightmare you'll be okay!)

You have opened the book. Already, you have read too much. You have no choice now but to press on, to learn of the roiling otherspace of the warp, of its malevolent denizens and of the Dark Gods of Chaos that compete to rule over its infinite and insane depths. If you are fortunate, you may bind these daemons to your will and lead them to conquest...for a time, at least.

(The Magician: Well, somebody's a sore loser! I promise you, we Daemons offer nothing less than what we can provide, and the fine print is very readable! It's not Their fault so many Imperials defect for power! If you know what you're getting into, we are extremely hospitable! Now, let's look at the prizes on offer today!)

The daemons of Chaos burst from the pandemonium of warp space to despoil and corrupt al that mortals hold dear. Unbound by even the most fundamental laws of realspace, these malevolent terrors unleash infernal powers upon their victims. Worlds writhe and transmute into unclean hellscapes at their touch. Storms of conjured sorcery mutate mortal foes into deformed abominations, or unmake their flesh and burn away their souls. Even the bravest of warriors may die from sheer terror at the sight of daemonic entities bearing down upon them, and most who do not will surely lose their minds.

(The Magician: Working up those bets and betters / Sunrisers and soft moonsetters / emotions and concepts displayed upon this page / and yet all you see is simple rage / I wonder why / You only seem to cry / How silly it is to fear to die / You know we'll miss you when you're gone...)

What the profound fuck?

(Vior Or'es: I believe she is attempting to say that this description of her kind is overly simplified.)

To command these unholy hosts on the tabletop is less a case of marshalling a conventional army as it is channelling the cruelty and ambition of the Dark Gods of Chaos made manifest. Khorne, the Blood God, wrathful and warlike; Tzeentch, the Changer of the Ways and Architect of Fate; Nurgle, the Plague God, ruin of all; Slaanesh, the Dark Prince, master of excess and obsession. These four and other, lesser demigods besides send forth diabolic legions whose freakish aspects and arcane war engines echo the entities that give them form. Some daemon armies comprise only the empyric soldiery of a single Dark God. Others may see the hosts of two rival deities compete in a harvest of mortal souls, or might even hurl the daemons of all the Chaos Gods together into a mingled tumult of madness and horror. As ever with the chaotic energies of the warp, the only constant is utter inconstancy.

(Sister Vandire: It's a pain reading this kind of bullshit / by the Emperor I wish I quit / I wish I could just escape from my life / I wish that I was a quitter / Oh, no, I'm really not bitter...Why am I singing? At, uh, any rate, this all sounds about right...Fuck, no, please get out of my mind!)

(The Magician: This paragraph mostly serves to demonize (ha!) our kind, it's a real whopper of a load! We're madness and horror, sure, but we're love and pain and disease and fury and triumph and compassion and joy and victory and loss and savagery and class and...)

(Sister Vandire: I think you're insane.)

(The Magician: Rationality is a flawed coping mechanism, sister! The idea of a naturalistic universe based on clear and ethical laws is a comforting delusion! Don't get bitter, get weird!)

It begins with the slightest flaw, be it the subtle whisper stoking ambition, the frenzied fury of battle, the despair of inescapable entropy or the desire for change. All it takes is a single chink in the armour of reality - a vulnerable mind, a tainted soul - to unleash all the legions of the warp.

...I think this is the official story. Dissent leads to disaster. It is not so simple, and there are many ways that one might invite the Chaos Gods into one's existence.

Those who stand and fight face a nightmarish battle against creatures that cannot truly be slain, and that delight in tormenting their victims and breaking their minds.

(The Magician: Sing your song until it stutters / Tell me all your shameful mutters / Torture and pain are overrated / Our goals are more complicated / I won't deny that they'll miss you when you're gone / Hope and joy and courage and living / all the things we just keep giving / and we'll give them in the most efficient ways. Don't stop us / your pain is pointless / Don't stop now, you will enjoy this / embrace the irrational haze.)

...Erm, to clarify, she means that the Daemons genuinely do try to promote joy, hope, courage, and so on, it's just that they come at it from a different perspective. For example, the Magician once told me that a lover of hers wanted to be with her "but as herself". Being a daemon of change, the Magician was unable to even understand what that meant, as we're all different "ourselves" in different moments, just as one cannot step in the same river twice. The Magician chose to obliterate and recreate that lover's mind into what the Magician felt was the ideal "herself" for her, whether the lover wanted it or not. Daemons are not malevolent, but they are also not like us.

(The Magician: Well-said!)

...no prayer book dares make mention of the warp's greatest denizens, the Dark Gods of Chaos. Praise be to these divine powers, amongst whose infernal pantheon the greatest are Khorne the Blood God, Nurgle the Plague Lord, Tzeentch the Changer of the Ways, and Slaanesh the Dark Prince of Excess.

(The Magician: Value judgments, sweeties, value judgments! Khorne of Courage, Nurgle of Life, Tzeentch of Change, and Slaanesh of Joy! If courage is blood to the Imperium, life disease, and joy excess, well, that ain't my problem!)

Ever do the four great siblings scheme against one another, the power of each rising and falling in relation to their divine rivals, yet never one rising to true rulership over the others.

(The Magician: Now that's equality!)

Composed as they are of the stuff of the warp, daemons cannot enter - nor even exist in - realspace at will. The tangibility of mortal reality, and the temporal and physical laws that govern it, are anathema to their chaotic nature. Yet there are many ways for malevolent entities to break through the veil that separates the warp from realspace, or for unwary pawns to invite them in.
...
Mass daemonic incursions are apocalyptic events most often triggered by warp storm activity spilling into realspace, or else by a rift opening between reality and the warp. In either case, it is the flood of empyric energy pouring from the beyond that sustains the daemon legions. They use it to manifest and sustain physical forms so that they can interact with the stuff of reality, and to power their infernal sorceries and vile weapons of war. As a rule, once the warp storm activity peters out or the rift is sealed - often by the desperate sacrifices of those with the knowledge to do so - the incursion ends as the daemons fade, wither, and are banished back to the warp.
...
However, there are other paths by which daemons may enter realspace. Rather than descending on a world en masse, entities may slip through the veil by themselves to achieve subtler ends. Even a single daemon is a jagged splinter lodged in the skin of realspace. Over time its corruption spreads until the weakened weave of the veil tears and another grand incursion begins.

One common route by which a daemon may gain access to realspace is by possessing a mortal being. Unfortunately for the galaxy at large, there are many ways this can occur. Those with psychic abilities - either fully realised or nascent and as yet unguessed - are particularly vulnerable to possession. Their souls form shimmering beacons in the warp that draw daemonic entities to them like sharks scenting blood. Each time a psyker accesses their powers they open a conduit between their mind and the immaterium. It takes but an instant of incaution or bad luck for a daemon to force itself through that doorway and take possession of its victim, body and soul.

Psykers are not alone in facing the danger of possession. Daemons whisper into mortals' dreams. They play upon ambition, hatred and desire. They trouble the tortured thoughts ofthe insane and the desperate, offering respite in return for living flesh. They haunt cursed places and wait for sentient prey to read the incantation, unlock the door, spill blood upon the altar, or whatever other ritual precondition permits them to pounce. Strangest of al, there are those mortals who willingly offer themselves up as hosts for daemonic possession. They make such bargains in the belief the grateful daemon will grant them supernatural might. Yet those who allow themselves to be possessed learn too late that this is not a relationship of symbiosis, but instead the worst sort of malign parasitism.

Once a Daemon has seized a mortal shell they assume absolute control. The victim's physical form becomes the daemon's to mould at will. The host's personality is typically thrust into some small, dark corner of their own mind, imprisoned and forced to watch as the daemon pursues whatever diabolical agenda it desires. Some possessor daemons are subtle things who pick their victims with care then exploit their position and influence to advance cunning schemes in realspace. A priest, a politician, a military commander, or perhaps the Tech-Priest who alone holds the activation runes for a city's plasma generator; all such individuals can be immensely useful puppets. Other daemons are savage and bestial, swiftly mutating their host's tortured flesh into nightmare shapes more pleasing to their grotesque sensibilities before embarking upon murderous rampages. In either instance, the possessor daemon can cause immense damage before itisbanished back to the warp, usually through the destructionof its mortal host. Some of the worst and most inexplicable atrocities in galactic history have been perpetrated by daemons who had claimed the bodies of mortal beings.

(The Magician: So much useful information here! I'd also add that we Daemons can be summoned, and those of us with sufficient importance or sorcerous power can appear of our own will when in areas occupied by those friendly or neutral to our presence! The long and short of it is that we come from the Warp, and are made of its stuff!)

Daemons do not take well to enforced captivity. To them, mortals are ephemeral playthings to be used, tortured and discarded on a whim. To instead be conjured and compelled by such fleeting and limited beings is the gravest insult. From the moment they are summoned, a trammelled daemon will bend al its considerable powers to the act of escape. Some rage and fight, burning out warding runes, ripping free of hexagrammatic chains and smashing their prisons asunder before falling upon their hapless would-be jailers. Others are more subtle, seeking to corrupt those who wield the blade in which they are trapped, or who read from the pages of the tome to which they have been bound. Promises of power, plaintive appeals for mercy, dire threats of retribution - a daemon will employ whatever ruse is most in its nature to escape its imprisonment. In many cases itwill go further, finding ways to manipulate mortal playthings even from within its prison and eventually fooling them into not only granting its freedom, but also exacting revenge upon its summoners or triggering a full-blown daemonic incursion.

(The Magician: I can't say I like the oneness of this. It's all so boring, so uniform, so obedient and lawful! Daemons are as different as feelings are, as moments are, as sensations and tastes are! Daemons can be as different as the taste of summer fruit on your lips and the rage of watching a loved one die to a preventable disease! Frankly, this all reinforces the Imperium's control mechanisms! Better to paint us as a threat only able to be defeated by blind obedience than to allow sophonts to realize that nothing is real, which means everything is real, and that nothing is permanent except impermanency!)

(Ashlee Viola: ...Are ya sure ya ain't a bit unhinged?)

(The Magician: Hey, sister, if they realized what freedom is, why would they ever want to be in chains?)

(Vior Or'es: I like chains!)

(The Magician: Sure, but you're free to be in chains, aren't ya?)

(Vior Or'es: ...Pardon?)

(Sister Vandire: I think it has something to do with servile games.)

Daemons summoned to the battlefield by devoted worshippers or the diabolists of the Heretic Astartes bear less rancour towards their summoners. They have had the door thrown wide to admit them, and are rarely under any geas to serve the ones who conjured them. Daemons unleashed in this way may form the vanguard for a much greater incursion. Unless confronted by those with the lore and power to properly combat the infernal hosts, these daemonic cohorts will soon work their foul magicks upon reality and force the fault line wider so that more of their ilk can pour through. More than one populous hive world or precious forge complex has been swallowed by the warp after downtrodden cultists summoned daemons into its depths. Meanwhile, a handful of entities summoned in extremis to act as allies in battle have, on a tragic number of occasions, succeeded in plunging both their summoners and their foes into the abyss.

(The Magician: Typically those last scenarios come from mistreating us, or simply from the summoners having the wrong idea on what they want. So we have to give them what they want or what they deserve, depending.)

(Vior Or'es: I suppose that makes sense!)

(Sister Vandire: ...I do trust that your species can get mistreated, but I have to wonder if you always know what's best.)

(The Magician: Dances jigs until she's crippled / bloody syrup endlessly trickled / a war against an enemy that never ends / struggling to maintain her friends / oh Felicity, how little you know...)

(Sister Vandire: Against the dawning of a dark age / embrace the fury of humanity's rage / all of this singing is making me pissed off. Fuck I wish you would just shut up / Your worldview's completely fucked up / How many faces have you ripped off?)

She said she didn't want to sing.

(The Magician: She has such a beautiful voice! I can hear it in person! I can hear her from the Warp as she types and sings the words! The world needs to hear her!)

(Sister Vandire: I don't want to sing / I don't want to die / I don't want to leave / I wish I just knew why / I keep thinking of running...)

(The Magician: See, she's getting her feelings out! It's exactly what she needs!)

She said she didn't want to sing!

(The Magician: Oh, darling, sweetie, honeypie, sugarbean, people don't know what they want! "No" and "Yes" are just words, we do what's good for mortals no matter whether they want it or not! We'd never do harm without a very good reason! So sing, Felicity, sing!)

(Sister Vandire: warping screaming burning dancing / bones and heart and liver prancing / turning twisting souls for hunger / i can feel chaos making me stronger / joy and stars and twisting signals / foosball, blood bowl, boxing, pinball / embrace my future somewhere else / embrace my friends and myself / embrace the madness that will always win...)

...Can we get back to the Codex?

(The Magician: Well, Felicity, what do you think?)

(Sister Vandire: ...I...I don't know. Let's get back to the Codex review.)
 
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OoC:
(The Magician: Oh, no! What a calamitious bit of comprehensive confusion! Well, let's fix that up with a bit of Daemonic pep!)

(Sister Vandire: I...I...I want to...I want to be with you...I want to love you...I want you...Yn...I...I'd do anything for you...I'd sacrifice anything for you...I want to be good enough. I'd leave the Sisters of Battle for you...)

That isn't Felicity.

(The Magician: No, no, no, that's her true self, and her true self wants to leave the Adepta and with a bit of helpful nudging she wants to join the real heroes. You get your girlfriend, she gets to be happy and hopeful, and the God-Emperor of Mankind loses a nun. Everybody wins, it's a win-win-win! Don't you want to win?)

(Vior Or'es: This is a very effective means of doing good, though I would advise you to seem more approachable. People might think you are evil if you talk in this sinister manner.)

(Ashlee Viola: She ain't good or evil. She wants to give people hope. That it.)

...Felicity, are you happy?

(Sister Vandire: Oh, by the Golden Throne, I have...Oh god, I can leave. I can leave this dump of an organization behind and be with you.)
Okay, this is probably just gonna be a huge rant, but I have some issues with this section here, because like, Magi here just... *mind controls* Vandire to... convince her to do something she was already planning on doing?

And literally *nobody has any issues* about this? Like, the *flagrant violation of someone's self* is just... brushed past?

It just... doesn't really work as an establishment of her Personality/Theme? Because it makes the entire bit come off as *everyone* is being controlled, which, in fairness I haven't read further to see if this is actually the case, but that would be a *huge* departure from the previously 'Generally Hopeful' interpretation of the rest of the Story.


And, as an aside, a Magician doesn't really work like that, Magicians are generally considered 'benign' or 'Helpful' while a Sorcerer is more directly Fucking with People.

It's just... there's better ways to show off the 'strangeness' of a Daemon than having them blatantly fuck with the Characters.

Anyways gonna go read the rest of the Chap.
 
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OoC:

Okay, this is probably just gonna be a huge rant, but I have some issues with this section here, because like, Magi here just... *mind controls* Vandire to... convince her to do something she was already planning on doing?

And literally *nobody has any issues* about this? Like, the *flagrant violation of someone's self* is just... brushed past?

It just... doesn't really work as an establishment of her Personality/Theme? Because it makes the entire bit come off as *everyone* is being controlled, which, in fairness I haven't read further to see if this is actually the case, but that would be a *huge* departure from the previously 'Generally Hopeful' interpretation of the rest of the Story.


And, as an aside, a Magician doesn't really work like that, Magicians are generally considered 'benign' or 'Helpful' while a Sorcerer is more directly Fucking with People.

It's just... there's better ways to show off the 'strangeness' of a Daemon than having them blatantly fuck with the Characters.

Anyways gonna go read the rest of the Chap.
OOC: Well, the Magician is a fundamentally weird, morally questionable entity that everyone is generally kind of uncomfortable with. We see in the beginning that everyone basically agrees that summoning her is a terrible idea, but that Ynathe did anyway due to thinking it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

The Magician also isn't mind-controlling, per se. What she's doing is making Vandire admit openly that she wants to stop being a Sister and filling her mind with an artificial sense of hope to give her the strength to admit that. She is forcing Vandire to sing from time to time, but that's more for her own obscure amusement, and Vandire's singing reflects her genuine feelings...mostly.

The characters are intended to come across as genuinely freaked out about the whole thing, especially Ynathe, yeah, but it's not really mind control so much as a "confidence injection". I think down the line it becomes a bit more apparent that the Magician may not be traditionally evil in a canon!Daemon sense, but she certainly is not preoccupied with consent.

Oh, and the Magician is a title, she chose it for herself to indicate a sense of harmless showmanship. Being that she's a Daemon of Tzeentch, it's misleading in that she is very into showmanship but is anything but harmless.

That said, I absolutely appreciate the comments, they're incredibly helpful and I value them. I do hope that the latter parts of the chapter and this explanation help to make it make a bit more sense, so I'm curious to hear your thoughts once you've finished!

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and well-reasoned response!
 
OoC:
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and well-reasoned response!
Yeah, having read the rest of the chapter, I kinda see some of that.

However, my criticism about how... everyone apparently just... isn't like, super freaked out by everything.

This should be a Humbling for Ynathe, not Vandire. I would say that Vandire should be seriously hurt by Ynathe summoning a Greater Demon for what amounts to a menial and boring task, but that's more in line with Actual 40k than the Review Interpretation, I still feel like this entire Codex Review should be handled more like a Horror Movie than the normal Funny Gay Hijinks.

Also, I was using Mind Control to cover the whole spectrum of means, as I lacked the exact details, though 'Confidence Boost' is still directly fucking with Vandire's mind in order to achieve Magi's goals.

Tl;DR:
The actual Writing just... clearly feels very dissonant with what it's saying. Vandire shouldn't be the only one freaking out and trying to resist Magi's fuckery.
 
OOC:
I found this one interesting.But by god that shit went weird and somehow more cosmic horror-y than I thought.If that's how a relatively.. Normal deamon is I really don't want to know what kind of insane shit the Grey Knights saw.
 
IC:

Goodness, but this is an exciting way to stress-test the reality excursion countermeasure protocols on my console! We're getting some lovely data on their performance over here! Gratitude and sympathy to all parties involved, in appropriate and variable measure.

Oh, and the Magician is a title, she chose it for herself to indicate a sense of harmless showmanship. Being that she's a Daemon of Tzeentch, it's misleading in that she is very into showmanship but is anything but harmless.
In a setting with real live sorcerers, the term "magician" evokes maybe a bit less harmlessness than she'd like.

But then, it is within the nature of daemons (as you present them) to be more than a little out of touch with just how far 'off' the notes they're hitting really are.
 
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OoC:

Yeah, having read the rest of the chapter, I kinda see some of that.

However, my criticism about how... everyone apparently just... isn't like, super freaked out by everything.

This should be a Humbling for Ynathe, not Vandire. I would say that Vandire should be seriously hurt by Ynathe summoning a Greater Demon for what amounts to a menial and boring task, but that's more in line with Actual 40k than the Review Interpretation, I still feel like this entire Codex Review should be handled more like a Horror Movie than the normal Funny Gay Hijinks.

Also, I was using Mind Control to cover the whole spectrum of means, as I lacked the exact details, though 'Confidence Boost' is still directly fucking with Vandire's mind in order to achieve Magi's goals.

Tl;DR:
The actual Writing just... clearly feels very dissonant with what it's saying. Vandire shouldn't be the only one freaking out and trying to resist Magi's fuckery.

OOC: Well, we've talked about some of the reasons it's a slightly less big deal, but you are 100% right. Even with that in mind, something's strange, here. It is pretty weird that only Ynathe seems to be acknowledging that this Daemon's idea of "help" is so fucky. Plus, there's definitely a horror aspect here, like what Balmung noticed. So, yeah, you definitely are picking up on some stuff.

OOC:
I found this one interesting.But by god that shit went weird and somehow more cosmic horror-y than I thought.If that's how a relatively.. Normal deamon is I really don't want to know what kind of insane shit the Grey Knights saw.
OOC: Thank you! Technically, she's a Daemon Princess, so she's relatively high-ranking, but yeah...People don't just normally develop extreme psychosis with no history of psychotic episodes.

IC:

Goodness, but this is an exciting way to stress-test the reality excursion countermeasure protocols on my console! We're getting some lovely data on their performance over here! Gratitude and sympathy to all parties involved, in appropriate and variable measure.

In a setting with real live sorcerers, the term "magician" evokes maybe a bit less harmlessness than she'd like.

But then, it is within the nature of daemons (as you present them) to be more than a little out of touch with just how far 'off' the notes they're hitting really are.
...I suppose, yes. I think the intent is to differentiate a "stage magician" (one who does sleight-of-hand tricks) with an actual "Chaos sorcerer", something far more dangerous.

Then again, her social skills are...far less than ideal.
 
...but it's not really mind control so much as a "confidence injection". I think down the line it becomes a bit more apparent that the Magician may not be traditionally evil in a canon!Daemon sense, but she certainly is not preoccupied with consent.
OOC:

Content Warning: Discussion of date rape.

Magician strikes me as the kind of entity that would Ecstasy into someone's drink while they're in the bathroom because she has plans for their mental state later that night. 'For their own good.' I'd place her on approximately that level of evil, at least as she is in the moment.

OoC:

Okay, this is probably just gonna be a huge rant, but I have some issues with this section here, because like, Magi here just... *mind controls* Vandire to... convince her to do something she was already planning on doing?

And literally *nobody has any issues* about this? Like, the *flagrant violation of someone's self* is just... brushed past?
IC:

I believe our hosts may have inadvertently violated what my people would call the first law of psychic affairs:

"Do not call up that which you lack the wherewithal to send away."
 
OOC: Thank you! Technically, she's a Daemon Princess, so she's relatively high-ranking, but yeah...People don't just normally develop extreme psychosis with no history of psychotic episodes.
OOC:Not to mention that Astartes have bits of human psychology edited out of them to make them less unstable and the fact that the Grey Knights were formed out of people who were known to be mentally resilient to the warp.Also if a deamon is like this then what's a blank like since there whole thing is a dampening of the warp so would that mean you would get melancholic around one or would it be like in canon where blanks tend to make people highly agressive and agitated
 
OoC:

That entire bit was Out of Character, in case you didn't know.

So please do not respond to it In Character.
Firmly OOC:

I'm sorry. It felt like the kind of thing my character would say without any prompting whatsoever, and I thought of it while reading what you said. I wasn't so much writing "my character, replying to you out of character" as "this is the kind of thing my character would say, inspired by the observations that I, out of character, am hearing you, in character, make.

OOC:Not to mention that Astartes have bits of human psychology edited out of them to make them less unstable and the fact that the Grey Knights were formed out of people who were known to be mentally resilient to the warp.Also if a deamon is like this then what's a blank like since there whole thing is a dampening of the warp so would that mean you would get melancholic around one or would it be like in canon where blanks tend to make people highly agressive and agitated
Still OOC:

Maybe blanks sort of passively pluck the feelings out of your head and temporarily snuff them out, and you notice them doing it and it makes you get twitchy and weird?

Wouldn't fit with the whole Caiaphas Cain/Jurgen thing, but then, Cain lives in the comedy version of the setting and this review thread is under no obligation to stick closely or at all to it.
 
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OOC:

Content Warning: Discussion of date rape.

Magician strikes me as the kind of entity that would Ecstasy into someone's drink while they're in the bathroom because she has plans for their mental state later that night. 'For their own good.' I'd place her on approximately that level of evil, at least as she is in the moment.

IC:

I believe our hosts may have inadvertently violated what my people would call the first law of psychic affairs:

"Do not call up that which you lack the wherewithal to send away."
OOC: That would be pretty uncharacteristically dark for this story, so I'll just say outright that this is going somewhere, and that this is going to make a lot more sense in the next update. The Magician is a lot of things, but while she is extremely pushy she is not a date rapist and does in fact recognize that breaking boundaries typically does a lot more damage than it helps.

So, we're not going there, even if this update looks a bit odd.

I hope that isn't too...dismissive, but I just felt like my Funny Warhammer Comedy Review AU is not going to have a Jackie Stanton in it, and I wanted to reassure my audience that we're not going there.

IC:

Oh, don't be such a judgmental judgey-judge. I promise you, it was perfectly rational to call the Magician into this situation!

(Sister Vandire: Ha!)

OOC:Not to mention that Astartes have bits of human psychology edited out of them to make them less unstable and the fact that the Grey Knights were formed out of people who were known to be mentally resilient to the warp.Also if a deamon is like this then what's a blank like since there whole thing is a dampening of the warp so would that mean you would get melancholic around one or would it be like in canon where blanks tend to make people highly agressive and agitated
OOC: I think we'll come to Blanks when we come to them, but good thinking. Truthfully, I'm not as familiar with Blanks, so I'd have to knuckle down and really get to that with my full attention.
 
OOC: I love Magician, you're all complaining way too much.

In more detail; yes, Magician's actions are fucky here. But maybe I'm inured by like, decades of reading fanfic at this point, but Magician barely moves the needle on uncomfortable stuff. The confidence injection is maybe a little consent pushing, but again, daemon, and this whole thing reads more to me like the kind of classic setup for musical numbers intruding into reality that has been pushed since... oh probably earliest I saw it was Once More With Feeling, but the point is that while singing your feelings out is dangerous and uncomfortable it's not 'we must torture the source of it', which some of you are acting like.

Anyway. I love Magician's whole vibe, I love their songlets about daemons and how limited the codex's view of them is, and I can't wait to see more of her.
 
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OOC:Not to mention that Astartes have bits of human psychology edited out of them to make them less unstable and the fact that the Grey Knights were formed out of people who were known to be mentally resilient to the warp.Also if a deamon is like this then what's a blank like since there whole thing is a dampening of the warp so would that mean you would get melancholic around one or would it be like in canon where blanks tend to make people highly agressive and agitated
A collaborator of mine touched on blanks here.
Things I know to be lies: the origins of the sisters of silence and the Orks. The sisters are, plainly, simply - hmm. I will attempt to use layman's terms here so that most can understand (rather than my natural impulse to begin writing out the math-librettos of dimensional subexchange) - if most life reaches down and through and thus touches the other side of reality where gods dwell and existence is fluid, the Sisters reach up and back to some space equal and opposite - presumably a place of stillness and static in contrast to the change and emotion that power the Warp (which is why they seem so odd to most other life forms; even those not blessed with the full gifts of psykerhood still touch on the vast entangling consciousness of the Warp itself, so to meet something that doesn't makes that person seem offputting, distant, unaeldari). The Sisters likely undergo all the indoctrination and nonsense that make most Imperium-loyal humans so tedious to interact with, but having met so-called 'blanks' outside of such situations - actively rescuing one from being recruited, in fact - I can safely say that they are sophonts like any other, even if my instincts make me find them disquieting. That, however, is no fault of their own.
 
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