Concur. Do you know how many Basilisk shells are expended against a hard target fortified to a standard of small hive? Answer: well in millions. I know because I've had to tally up those numbers once or twice. And that's not including lesser munitions.
Let's Read: Warhammer 40,000 Codexes and Star Wars RPG Sourcebooks (Dark Eldar Reviewer)
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Apologies. I have much to learn in the art of jokes.
hellgodsrus
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There's a reason I cut the number to only a year. That seems reasonable to me. As for what I would do... oh, I'd drive myself into an absolute tizzy. Probably refuse to do anything other than research and academic papers.
ANYWAY. Some days ago now, cousin, you asked me about what glory these reactionaries seek to reclaim, and their methods. And since this is useful information, I decided to format it more broadly informationally for the thread at large.
Firstly, to understand the nature of the revanchist movement among the Craftworlds, one must understand the Peak of the Aeldari, the birth of Slaanesh, and why the Craftworlds left. Subjects I am aware you are familiar with, cousin, but your friends and those within this thread may not be as familiar with such history.
The Peak as it is now called was not one single era. Rather it is more accurate to divide it into two, alternating parts - our civilisation's rapid, colonialist expansions, and the moments where we realised the horrors of this and retreated. Perhaps a better comparison would be to the tides? Regardless, the Aeldari exploded outward across the galaxy and we... frankly, we were little better than mankind, at first. We exploited, and murdered, and bombarded and were generally poor neighbours - perhaps not so poor as the Imperium, but certainly as poor as mankind was at its height. We were, of course, not entirely unified - there were factionalism and civil wars aplenty. And sometimes we encountered things we were not prepared to face in open combat, and lost, furrows carving their way into our civilisation's heart.
At some point, though, I think we as a people started to realise what we were doing. We were - are - so long lived compared to other races. It wasn't - no, fair is the wrong word, but it's close enough. We were not fair in our conquest, in our disregard of other perspectives. Even of outer colony worlds, there were biases and - well. We decided to retreat to a 'core' section of our empire, give colony worlds outside it independence, and automate defences of our borders. Not a perfect solution. Not even true recompense to those species we'd driven from their homes or slaughtered to make room for ourselves. But perhaps room for us to be less abominable to those who came after. We would focus on our own affairs, where we could.
And perhaps this was cowardice. This may be what is commonly thought of as the 'Peak', but we kept isolated where we might have guided, though that perhaps is a paternalistic view. I am not sure there was a good solution - we were too much, and too old, and had done too many wrongs.
Regardless. This is when the process of the birthing of Slaanesh began, which my cousin already covered. However, given that you didn't discuss it, and the codex's discussion was hellaciously inaccurate, it is worth discussing why the Craftworlds left.
... very bluntly, I believe it is that we weren't... as self centred. That sounds like a criticism, but it isn't - the focus of things at the time was on individuality, as it continues to be among the Drukhari. Individual beliefs, and strengths and pleasures. And these are all very well. But I believe most Craftworlds set out with the intention of experiencing things among others. Of finding joy not in oneself, but among the Colony worlds, or with a team working together. One could argue that the whole expedition was a kind of... colonialist tourism. Braving the dangerous frontier as Aeldari had before, completely ahistorically. I know that... doesn't sound much better. And maybe it wasn't.
The fact remains that when the Eye opened, when ze was born, when we were offered zir choice in perspective, the Craftworlds vehemently refused. And perhaps given the nature of the expeditions, it didn't take long for a few to -
Imagine it, for a moment. You leave your city, your home, for a trip of a few years (months? Days maybe?) to somewhere rural and rustic. Perhaps you tell yourself you are getting in touch with nature. And then you look back behind you, and your city is gone. Your home is gone.
I think there's little wonder we went a bit mad, after that.
We returned to... previous habits. We needed to secure our Craftworlds' safety, after all. And any threat was an excuse. Especially to Iyanden and Biel-Tan.
Fucking Biel-Tan. Powers. If you see any in green and white, fucking run. No, they'd be too close by then. If there are any Aeldari as bad as the Imperium, Biel-Tan walk the closest to that line. They are an autocratic cult of fascism, clinging to the bygone age of Aeldari colonialism, pretending to it even as they feed themselves into the grinder of war with no regard for allies or themselves or their opponents -
We weren't much better. At least for a while. We had a different excuse - Biel-Tan sought only pure, imperial glory and lebensraum (to borrow a human term); we, frankly, were far more embarrassing, acting like we were protecting the Aeldari people. Eventually these motivations clashed, and Iyanden gained a measure of perspective. Not much, but some, enough to restrain us to fighting 'merely' defensive actions. Even that died away a little with time, as we started to seek perspective and not be as insular.
Then, the Hive Fleet.
I was young, only five centuries or so at the time. Still a Warp Spider. I thought I was, that we were invincible.
I don't want to talk about it further.
It was horrifying. It was appalling. It - it saved us, to some extent. We had to reach out and rely on others. We couldn't turn to foolish dreams of an imaginary past, even if we tried. We didn't have the time, or people for that.
But recently... well. Now we are a little stronger. Now more threats than ever press in, and young people, and some old, ask why we negotiate when we have so many constructs, as though they don't understand that we only have so many because of what happened. Now, the years of unbridled bloodshed and bombardment of our 'defensive' actions, of our expeditions alongside Biel-Tan, seem like quaint amusements rather than horrors.
The glories they seek to reclaim never occurred, but they speak often of our 'Peak', of the simplicity of safety, of not having to worry about whether we'd die in the next century or so. And it is true, that that safety is something to aspire to. The falsehood of it lies in what they say is necessary - a new, clearcutting age of expansion. With what force, sane detractors ask? Why, with constructs, for did they not patrol our borders? No, psychoactive constructs are quite different to the artificial soulships used previously, and we have not the docks to make them - ah, but then we must conquer land to ensure we can! For security's sake. To guard against Slaanesh, as though we have forgotten all over again that ze is simply another perspective - one unsought, but not inherently inimical.
Their methods, currently, are limited to a lot of talking and propaganda. Fiction set during the 'heights' of the Aeldari conquests and the like. Works and speeches emphasising our previous 'bonds' with Biel-Tan. Occasionally, one such as myself will be proclaimed a traitor, or some agent of - apologies, cousin - the Drukhari, seeking to undermine our unified strength with individualism demanding selfish retreat instead of war for the common good.
They currently only have two sympathetic seats on the Council, and the seats are only sympathetic, not outright supporters. But our council is small by necessity, and even those who aren't sympathetic often enable by refusing to adequately refute or stop such actions. If things continue like they are, I believe it is entirely possible that within the next millenia I will be exiled as will many others, and Iyanden the bloody will stalk the stars once more.
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Though, in my experience, it is best to clearly state one's intentions in Text communication if you fear misunderstanding.
I've fought all of them aside from Tiamet, Kronos, and Gorgon. And I have to say, they're *All* different varieties of 'Fucking Sucks'. There is a specific smell of someone being digested by Tyranid Acid, that you simply never forget.
No problem, I've learned it's better to assume ignorance, than Malice.
Though, in my experience, it is best to clearly state one's intentions in Text communication if you fear misunderstanding.
Mood.
I've fought all of them aside from Tiamet, Kronos, and Gorgon. And I have to say, they're *All* different varieties of 'Fucking Sucks'. There is a specific smell of someone being digested by Tyranid Acid, that you simply never forget.
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Does blowing up the big ones first help reliably?
hellgodsrus
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IC: To have fought every fleet you would need to be older than I am. I severely doubt that.
And classifying them as fleets is wrong regardless. The Tyranids are - well, reasoning with them is possible, if you don't fire on them first like we did.
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OOC: I had to respond to these posts pretty late at night, and I'm half asleep. I chose to respond to them now so that when I posted the update very soon the comments for this wouldn't overtake that.
I see. I suppose "deliberate" can mean a whole host of things, but I find your conception of Man as a single collective entity to be somewhat questionable and I worry that you may be attempting to analyze wording rather than simply grasp the plain meaning of a piece of text. Still, I understand that is not always easy.
I would imagine that the supply shortages and requisitional errors would mean that Imperial technology can be marvelous in some places and lacking in others. Furthermore, the Imperial pigheadness that opposes change almost on principle would inhibit such things. By what logic does the Imperium believe "Abominable Intelligence" is itself evil, rather than simply altering that intelligence to produce kinder beings than the Men of Iron?
I see. It must be so strange to regard even technical specificity as an extension of religious ritual. In many ways, the Imperium is almost comically reactionary, a nation that worships the past to the extent that even trivial items from long ago are considered rare and holy relics. You Terrans are far too silly for your own good, even if a Space Marine is only tangentially related to the average Terran.
On the subject of the T'au, I could see Commanders struggling to fight a tactically and technologically advanced advanced foe. Does the Overwhelming Artillery Barrage kill your own as well?
And are those authority figures still relevant on the battlefield, or simply in politics?
I am told it is the way they break through most things, yes. A mite savage.
This is exceptionally accurate and thoughtful, and I can only recommend it wholeheartedly. Still, cousin, I will be discussing the Tyranids, so you may want to avert your pointed ears and wondrously-carved eyes. The Tyranids are, essentially, a living ecosystem that terraforms things in their path. They are not an all-consuming force, but they are dangerous in the ways that animals or old gods are.
They are pagan in a sense, a kind of network of gestalt consciousnesses and linked intelligences, from the animalistic (and potentially domesticatable) Gaunts and below to the inhumanly-erudite Zoanthropes and finally the great Hive Mind. They are nature made flesh, and their wandering path returns to nature.
They are not evil, but they are life manifest.
Medicus Viola, a Genestealer "cultist", will surely tell a bit more, but a Tyranid fleet is a stampede, a force of nature. They are not a "horde of space locusts", they are an invasive biome but a thinking and often intelligent one.
They are not sophonts like us, and yet many of them in their linked brilliance are our equal or greater.
They are...deeply strange.
One might say alien.
I see. I suppose "deliberate" can mean a whole host of things, but I find your conception of Man as a single collective entity to be somewhat questionable and I worry that you may be attempting to analyze wording rather than simply grasp the plain meaning of a piece of text. Still, I understand that is not always easy.
I would imagine that the supply shortages and requisitional errors would mean that Imperial technology can be marvelous in some places and lacking in others. Furthermore, the Imperial pigheadness that opposes change almost on principle would inhibit such things. By what logic does the Imperium believe "Abominable Intelligence" is itself evil, rather than simply altering that intelligence to produce kinder beings than the Men of Iron?
I see. It must be so strange to regard even technical specificity as an extension of religious ritual. In many ways, the Imperium is almost comically reactionary, a nation that worships the past to the extent that even trivial items from long ago are considered rare and holy relics. You Terrans are far too silly for your own good, even if a Space Marine is only tangentially related to the average Terran.
On the subject of the T'au, I could see Commanders struggling to fight a tactically and technologically advanced advanced foe. Does the Overwhelming Artillery Barrage kill your own as well?
And are those authority figures still relevant on the battlefield, or simply in politics?
I am told it is the way they break through most things, yes. A mite savage.
This is exceptionally accurate and thoughtful, and I can only recommend it wholeheartedly. Still, cousin, I will be discussing the Tyranids, so you may want to avert your pointed ears and wondrously-carved eyes. The Tyranids are, essentially, a living ecosystem that terraforms things in their path. They are not an all-consuming force, but they are dangerous in the ways that animals or old gods are.
They are pagan in a sense, a kind of network of gestalt consciousnesses and linked intelligences, from the animalistic (and potentially domesticatable) Gaunts and below to the inhumanly-erudite Zoanthropes and finally the great Hive Mind. They are nature made flesh, and their wandering path returns to nature.
They are not evil, but they are life manifest.
Medicus Viola, a Genestealer "cultist", will surely tell a bit more, but a Tyranid fleet is a stampede, a force of nature. They are not a "horde of space locusts", they are an invasive biome but a thinking and often intelligent one.
They are not sophonts like us, and yet many of them in their linked brilliance are our equal or greater.
They are...deeply strange.
One might say alien.
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IC:
You're trying to kill the Synapse Organisms to cause the Tyranids to go feral, then you want to shoot the Big Ones because they're the hardest to take down, generally have the best weapons, and can bully smaller 'Nids into following them around.
Though make sure you have all the Guants, since those can breed independently.
OoC:
Just to be clear here, I'm using the Fleet Names to cover *any* Tyranids that specc into certain things, not just Tyranids in a certain area.
IC:
As I've said to the Tau-Human, the greatest advantage of a Tau Army is that their soldiers generally want to be there. Volunteers will always outperform a Conscript, you see this in the Guard too, with the Kriegers and Cadians.
Ooc:
You're starting to slip into Imperium Bashing again. Tactically, the Guard is just as diverse and complicated as any other faction, and Technologically, well, they've held the line all this time, their Tech can't be *significantly* inferior to everyone else's, otherwise they wouldn't be a Threat.
IC:
Tyranids are sapient enough to hold grudges, to develop hatreds of certain people and groups.
They're Sapient enough to classify within the Good versus Evil framework.
Shoot the brainy ones then the big ones.
You're trying to kill the Synapse Organisms to cause the Tyranids to go feral, then you want to shoot the Big Ones because they're the hardest to take down, generally have the best weapons, and can bully smaller 'Nids into following them around.
Though make sure you have all the Guants, since those can breed independently.
I never said that I fought all of them, since new Fleets keep popping up as they specialize, adapt, and change, but once you fight a Diggy Fleet, a Flier Fleet, and a Swarmer Fleet, that's basically all of the ones I didn't explicitly say I haven't encountered.
OoC:
Just to be clear here, I'm using the Fleet Names to cover *any* Tyranids that specc into certain things, not just Tyranids in a certain area.
IC:
For all the Tau grandstanding, their Techbase isn't so inherently 'better' so much as 'different'. A Tau Pusle Rifle is... mostly equivalent to a Lasrifle, It's a little stronger, and a little more accurate, but nowhere near as easy to manufacture, nor as durable. A Battlesuit is strong, yeah, but it's basically like a Knight, and they don't really have any real means of handling the Super- and Ultra-heavies that sometimes show up.
As I've said to the Tau-Human, the greatest advantage of a Tau Army is that their soldiers generally want to be there. Volunteers will always outperform a Conscript, you see this in the Guard too, with the Kriegers and Cadians.
Ooc:
You're starting to slip into Imperium Bashing again. Tactically, the Guard is just as diverse and complicated as any other faction, and Technologically, well, they've held the line all this time, their Tech can't be *significantly* inferior to everyone else's, otherwise they wouldn't be a Threat.
IC:
Most of the time, they're Political Generals who haven't seen a battlefield, hence me being able to get creative with the orders, or them not immediately getting Fragged for being stupid and getting Guardsmen killed.
Irregardless of the fancy words, they still aggressively attack people and places, and don't even get me started on shit like Ripper Swarms and Biovores. Or the fact that Lictors understand and regularly utilize Terror Tactics. Or that Genestealers don't exactly get Consent before fucking with people's genetics.
Tyranids are sapient enough to hold grudges, to develop hatreds of certain people and groups.
They're Sapient enough to classify within the Good versus Evil framework.
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OOC: Oh, yeah, Ynathe isn't an objective source. She's biased against the Imperium. Also, while the Tyranids aren't necessarily morally good, I've tried to portray them in a more nuanced manner. Is your character speaking from a subjective point of view, or are you trying to establish elements of canon within the setting? I think once we get to the Tyranids we'll learn more about them, but it might bear repeating that the actual reviews and my own posts take precedence? Still, I really do appreciate that you're getting so into the fic, and I agree that Ynathe is prone to Imperium-bashing from time to time.
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Plus, given the Tau and Dark Eldar codexs have kept that the broad ideas and *units* exist, although not always as the codex says they exist. The Dark Eldar Torture Device is a good example, The iC!Codex has them as just a... Part of the Army, ya know? But the Reality is that they're *extremely rare* due to being only used by the absolutely most evil and depraved individuals.
The Tyranids exist to terraform things, which isn't *inherently* a Good or Evil thing, but we've been shown many times that the Tyranids can hold grudges and develop hatred for individuals.
A More Nuanced Tyranids still needs to talk about the fact that Hostile Terraforming is *horrific*, which is why I left things open more along the lines of the Genestealer Cults, much easier to expand without absolutely ripping apart the Lore.
TL;DR:
I wasn't establishing Lore or trying to write things for you, just talking about what my specific character has experienced being the Fighting Arm of "The Worse Regime Imaginable" and fighting the Hostile Terraformers known as the Nids.
Okay, I was just making sure that it was intentional, given previous history and you asking for us to let you know if you're going too far.
I was attempting to utilize Codex!Canon while leaving things open for Review!Canon to be made. Hence me talking about the *fighting arm* of the Tyranids, and making no judgements on the Greater Lore.
Ofc, but just as Ynathe is biased against the Imperium, IC!Me (who I just realized I've never named, *Shrugs,*) is *really* not a fan of the Tyranids.
Plus, given the Tau and Dark Eldar codexs have kept that the broad ideas and *units* exist, although not always as the codex says they exist. The Dark Eldar Torture Device is a good example, The iC!Codex has them as just a... Part of the Army, ya know? But the Reality is that they're *extremely rare* due to being only used by the absolutely most evil and depraved individuals.
The Tyranids exist to terraform things, which isn't *inherently* a Good or Evil thing, but we've been shown many times that the Tyranids can hold grudges and develop hatred for individuals.
A More Nuanced Tyranids still needs to talk about the fact that Hostile Terraforming is *horrific*, which is why I left things open more along the lines of the Genestealer Cults, much easier to expand without absolutely ripping apart the Lore.
TL;DR:
I wasn't establishing Lore or trying to write things for you, just talking about what my specific character has experienced being the Fighting Arm of "The Worse Regime Imaginable" and fighting the Hostile Terraformers known as the Nids.
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IC: um I can't say what it is exactly(I can say left hand and when I tried to say the other version the custodes did some redaction's).I am allowed to do a Asyurani and be very vague about it and force you to fill in the gap while I give you a bunch of weird hints.
- The Right Hand is usually considered the more noble hand while left handedness traditionally means bad luck.
-other than Black Carapaces/armour uplinks I can work on the MIU units that help operate Titans but the LEft Hand doesn't use MIU units.
- It isn't a death squad/super secret assasaination squad( there's far to many other groups capable of doing that job) but instead it's sent in when you either want something so dead that not even their souls will reach the warp intact or you want something to die screaming.
-what's below an Emperor-Class Titan?
- it's first deployment was one asset on a rebellious world during the Great Crusade that ended with every insurrectionist putting down their arms and becoming quiet.The asset never activated any weapons,loudspeakers,tried to kill anyone or forced to go into full combat capability and simply walked for like an hour before leaving.
-ask the Asyurani the fate that the Corsairs of Magc'Sithraal.
- a few quotes about,associated with them or by them that also coincidentally are very reasonable for Titans
-OOC: just look up the Ordo Sinister on the wiki,you'll get the idea.Also on a unrelated note if 40k Imperium is Stalinist USSR could we make the Emperor be equivalent to Lenin?Like he isn't incredibly evil and did genuinely have good ideas and did good things for people but wasn't perfect and put his trust in the wrong people.
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I kinda figured that the Emperor was more... well, Big E is a God, through sheer feats alone he qualifies for the position, and nobody not either Malcador or a Primarch is physically able to have an opinion that isn't Big E's.
Now, this didn't matter when the Sigillite was around, because Big E only needed to directly Do Shit when he *needed* to 'Wave the Flag', so to speak. But then the Sigillite died on the Gilded Throne, now Big E needed to personally go direct all of the functionaries and 'Little People'.
Things were getting done. Yes. But now you're having the start of the Ecclesiarchy, and Blind Zealotry is replacing the Enlightened Agnosticism (In the sense of 'There are Being that could Be Called Gods. But they're not Actually Divine' not the fucking weird Christian fanfic way,) that the Emperor was trying to build.
I mean, a Custodes is able to spawn Cults just from a casual conversation with someone, (I am exaggerating for effect here.) And then you have someone who is to a Custodes, what a Custodes is to a Normal Man.
Also, the Imperium tracks more along Medieval/Feudal lines than anything more modern.
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The Imperium is kind of a mishmash. It very much lives up to the "worst regime imaginable" billing, and does so by being a Frankenstein's monster stitched together from different ways for a regime to be bad.
You've got the massively centralized, ecologically devastating mega-factory industrial zones of both some 20th century capitalism and the Cold War Soviet Union.
You've got ideological thought police and mass propaganda mills like the WWII-era totalitarian states in general.
You've got elite "state within a state" institutions with special prestige and resources, like Nazi Germany in particular.
You've got undesired minorities being shoveled into ovens in the name of genetic purity, also like Nazi Germany in particular.
You've got elites living in absolute glittering palaces of unthinkable opulence and baroque willful extravagance while the masses starve in gutters, like Dickensian-era Britain or the Age of Absolutism in Europe.
You've got human-wave warfare and total callousness towards human life like the popular imagination of the WWII Soviets (remembering that Warhammer 40,000 has its origins in 1980s and 1990s-era Britain).
You've got an ultra-bigoted, ultra-intolerant church that builds the most glittering palaces and kills things with fire like the latent anti-Catholic streak in English cultural history tells the English that the medieval Catholic Church was like (again, remembering 40k's origins).
And on top of it all, you've got the "but the trains don't even run on time
" chronic inefficiency and lack of tightly organized state capacity at the higher levels that we see from real feudalism.It's the worst of every time period stapled together, plus the worst that is attributed in imagination to those time periods, sometimes even when some of those bad things kind of contradict one another.
OOC:
First of all, that kind of portrayal of Lenin is itself questionable, because Lenin was not a fool and "he just trusted the wrong guys, he was a good person and all the ruthlessness was done by evil councilors" is a very rosy picture of him. Even given the assumption that the old order in Russia had it coming (which I will not dispute), Lenin was a rough, tough customer with very specific ideas, some of which were not... nice, shall we say.
Second, to think of the Emperor this way is to disregard many of his canonical bad actions. Many of the Imperium's present-day problems spring very directly from his many, many bad ideas, or from actions he personally undertook towards his own sons. Or directly from the logic of his own ideology, such as the way that Malcador founded the Inquisition. Malcador is universally painted in the source material as being utterly loyal to the Emperor and knowing his opinions on matters very well, so it would be a huge shift of his character to present him as one of those "evil councilors."
Third, to think of the Emperor this way is questionable for meta-fictional reasons. Venerating the Giant Golden Man who founded the horrible empire and blaming all its evils on his successors and advisors is a very common way to justify tyranny, totalitarianism, and dystopia. It is not a channel we want our thoughts flowing through regularly, because it is usually not true. Usually, it is a propaganda tool constructed by apologists who want to rewrite history to make the evil empire look better.
Fourth and related to the third, the main reason to think of the Emperor this way would be if you were trying to write imperial apologia, which isn't likely to be very welcome on this thread. The prevailing vision here, RiverDelta's, is not particularly kind to the original founding engine of the fascist dystopia that is the Empire. There are good humans working within that dystopia, because a recurring theme of RiverDelta's work is of good people working within bad systems and bad people within good systems. But while "the Emperor was a good man who had a beautiful vision that was ruined by his successors" is the kind of thing I can imagine an apologist saying in-universe, it has little place here as an OOC factual truth."
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OOC: What I was trying to go at was that the Emperor had good ideas and he had really shitty ones that nearly made the galaxy go boom.Like there's a reason why people venerated him other than the state sponsored personality cult( like canonically he gave lots of what could be called buy ins/kickbacks to people on Terra with stuff like mass terraforming into a garden planet,near total expansion of infrastructure,dealt with the overpopulation through positive incentives(in the sense he used a carrot instead of a stick/lasgun to the head telling them to leave) by basically making anyone who left a noble/admin on the spot and he had a genuine skill with technology and biology .He also played god and Fucked Around on a level that made him Find Out in a way that left a good chunk of the galaxy a dead corpse,caused a near total breakdown of reality in the Sol system and that's not getting into the bloody monsters meant to create his supposed vision whowill create secondary catastrophes and will probably haunt the galaxy long after the Golden Throne deactivates.
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OOC: Yeah, fair enough. I appreciate people helping to rein me in, at least in the way you're doing. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have on the Nids, if you're curious. Their hostile terraforming is bad, definitely. They aren't really likely to terraform the entire galaxy, but they're a big biome migration and if shit doesn't get out of the way it gets real fucky real fast, my dudes.
OOC: @Simon_Jester is mostly right about my view of the Imperium, but I'd also add that like the other factions, this Imperium has been toned down. It's significantly less grimdark (though still in some places grim and dark), merely a deeply flawed and repressive mass-murdering dictatorship with extreme income inequality, poor or scattershot governance, militarism and fascist theocracy, as opposed to a sort of caricature of the worst kinds of human governance.
OOC: I wasn't arguing with you on that and I do agree with you regarding that.
OOC:Also wouldn't another side affect be the destruction of habitats and biomes that might be nowhere else in the Galaxy andd what happens once they leave?
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OOC: Yeah, it would be, since the Swarm isn't mindless but also tends not to think about things in the same way we do. A section of the Swarm might be able to be convinced to be diverted or something, but it is very much a struggle-for-mutual-survival situation.
Codex: Grey Knights
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OOC: Hey, if there are any Grey Knights fans in the audience, I do not hate the Grey Knights. I think they're cool Space Marines and I encourage those who enjoy the Grey Knights to continue enjoying the Grey Knights. This Codex review is going to kind of shit on the Grey Knights. This is not a statement on the Imperium, which is a nuanced and heavily flawed society that does have good people and is more ethical ITTL than in canon.
IC:
(Sister Vandire: Are we really talking about them?)
Why would we not?
(Sister Vandire: "The Grey Knights are monsters" is well-agreed upon. In fact, it is so well agreed-upon, that a nearly-autonomous section of the Chapter exists for the sake of being less monstrous. Is this going to be some anti-Imperial rant like the Custodes review? What is even the point of talking about the most shameful Astartes to remain in the Imperium?)
Well, there is no point, really. We just have to get through all of these Codexes, and this was the next one on the list.
(Sister Vandire: There is no reason to talk about these people. All it does is makes xenos states look better, as if the Fourth Sphere Expansion Fleet or the Kabal of the Last Hatred aren't equally horrible. Every country has its monsters.)
My dear, I'm afraid as usual you're missing the void for the asteroids. If there were a Codex about the Last Hatred or the Fourth Sphere that talked of them as the brigands they are, there would be no need to discuss it. However, if there were a work that praised the scoundrels, it would need to be dissected. How about this? Why don't we allow you to take the lead? Surely a devoted Sister of Battle would never taint her Imperium with a broad brush dipped in Grey ink?
(Sister Vandire: Fine. Works for me.)
(Sister Vandire: By the Thrice-Praised Savior, this is the most disguisting bit of revisionism I've ever read!)
Oh?
(Sister Vandire: Not even Imperial agitprop is close to this level of hateful grox shit. The Grey Knights are corrupt, violent, sociopathic cowards who butchered Sisters of Battle to protect themselves against Daemons!)
Oh, dear.
(Sister Vandire: Fuck you! Fuck you, you sanctimonious, supplicating shits! There is nothing holy or heavenly about the Knights of Khorne, other than their lies! Burn! Burn this book! No more review!)
...I believe we should read it.
(Sister Vandire: Elite? This dares to call the Grey Rogues the most elite? What about when the Space Wolves stopped them from turning on their own Sisters of Battle? What about when they lost catastrophically in the Damocles Gulf? What about when the Ultramarines—and yes, they are mighty—defended an entire hive city from their rapacious eyes with ease?)
(Sister Vandire: Oh, well, krak! the Grey Knights only seem to butcher the undeluded, educated, and moral! Oh, and their ridiculous baby-carrier walkers are far less effective than even a xenos Broadside mech could be!)
I'm afraid I'm quite confused. I thought psykers weren't allowed among the Imperials.
(Sister Vandire: No, Space Marines often have among them Librarians able to wield that power. They are above suspicion.)
(Sister Vandire: They're shilling the Space Marines' hated War Crime Divison just to sell models, aren't they?)
That seems to be the case. These Games Workshop people must be utterly desperate.
(Sister Vandire: Well, I'll have to send in a complaint.)
(Sister Vandire: That anyone could say such lies about the Arch-Heretics demands immediate rectification!)
Please avoid killing people.
(Sister Vandire: I'm just frustrated that people would defame the Emperor's will by lionizing those people.)
(Sister Vandire: Kaldor Draigo should be erased from existence!)
Could we tone down the anger?
(Sister Vandire: Imagine if there was a Codex on the Kabal of the Last Hatred. Wouldn't you be mad if it was written like this?)
I just feel as though you blow up at people.
(Sister Vandire: Well, I'm not blowing up at you, am I?)
You truly need some wine and Soma.
(Sister Vandire: Maybe.)
(Sister Vandire: Much of the reason Psykers are treated so poorly on many worlds—not the half-truths about Chaos influence, the real reason—is because of these "battle-brothers".)
I do not know if it can be distilled down to one enemy, my dear.
(Sister Vandire: The Grey Knights scare people.)
(Sister Vandire: ...They always find daemons just happening to be wherever they've butchered and looted last.)
(Sister Vandire: Emperor protect me. I can't do this without wanting to break someone's nose. I need a break. Get one of your guest reviewers.)
...Well, alright, I suppose, if you must.
(Medicus Viola: Good evening, everyone.)
Good evening, Viola!
(Medicus Viola: Well, hey, great to be here.)
What a crock of pot. The Grey Knights weren't some legendary force, they're merely decievers and lie-spinners.
(Medicus Viola: Nah. The story of the Grey Knights is a hell of a lot more complicated than that. Sadder, too. You ever wonder why there are so many Platinum Knights who reject the cruelty of the Grey Knights and are trying to fight for the truth? You ever wonder what happens when people get exposed to the fuckin' darker incarnations of the Chaos Gods? I know they ain't all night terrors and bloody murder, but no god was ever fully good.)
What do you mean?
(Medicus Viola: Look. You're a person, right? Imagine all of your darkest thoughts. Maybe you fantasize about killin' a coworker. Maybe you feel like that guy you like would be hot if you just took him. Maybe you see a Tyranid and think "hot". Maybe you're down and out and you need money, and your first thought's to rob somewhere. You don't act on those thoughts, right?)
Yes?
(Medicus Viola: Well, the Chaos Gods have those parts of them too, and when you're a being of spiritual energy sometimes that stuff leaks. When you have the urge to kill yer annoying coworker, you get into a bloody daydream. When Khorne gets that fantasy, other people get that daydream and it's more real than real. The Grey Knights aren't just assholes to be dirtwads. They're assholes because when you deal with the repressed darker sides of Chaos, you go nuts. It rubs off on ya. So Platinum Knights are the ones who got out of the game, and Grey Knights are the ones that kept going until it made 'em monsters. You got that acquaintance who worships Slaanesh, right? Well, imagine being exposed to Slaanesh's darkest parts, the stuff zie would never normally show, the stuff zie holds in, the stuff that sometimes gets out. That's why the Grey Knights are the most infamous Chapter in the galaxy: they're not thinkin' straight. Most of the time, they don't even know that real shit is real. They think they're in a big daydream, a big violent daydream where nothin' really matters.)
My word.
(Medicus Viola: Look, I might just be a mad scientist, flesh-sculptor, and genestealer "cultist", but I know crazy. I know crazy real well. Ain't nobody's crazy just to be crazy.)
...Why do you put quotation marks around the word "cultist"?
(Medicus Viola: I don't worship the Nids. I just find 'em fascinating. I think there's a lot we can learn about 'em. They're perfect survivors, adaptable. Me and my, uh, friends, we do lots of...Well, I'm a lot more Nid than I am a lotta things, I'll tell ya that.)
What if they devour your world?
(Medicus Viola: They're animals. You gotta think of Nids like a stampede. They go somewhere, crush everything below them, and move on. They're not full of hate or anything, they just wanna eat. So you nudge 'em out of the way, get the ones that aren't as homicidal. Ya ever studied ecology?)
Perhaps we should return to the Grey Knights.
(Medicus Viola: Sure.)
(Medicus Viola: Here's a tip. They weren't chosen just for their dedication, though obviously that was a lot of it. They were chosen for mental strength, for knowing reality. Trips deep into the Warp are trips into the Chaos Gods' mindscape. You gotta know what's just the mind. You gotta know your mind.)
...Have you ever had sex with a Tyranid? Can they consent?
(Medicus Viola: ...What? You're a real freak, Ynathe.)
I would never participate in bestiality! I just wasn't sure if there were any sapient ones!
(Medicus Viola: What are you, a monster-fucker?)
Perhaps...
(Medicus Viola: Nice.)
Well, this sounds like a just-so story to me.
(Medicus Viola: I'm skeptical about them being made from the Emperor's gene-seed, but I buy the rest of it. Big Emps is a melodramatic guy.)
(Medicus Viola: That's insanity: being disconnected from reality. People think insanity makes you evil, or violent. Ain't true. Most insane people are dangerous only to themselves. Most Chaos cultists are a little insane, and many of them are the most ethical people you'll meet. Most people who are disconnected from reality think that people are out to get them or that they've got nothin' to live for, not that they oughta butcher some people. Space Marines ain't most people. They're weapons, made to fight. So, when they go nuts, they fight things that aren't there, or the wrong kindsa things, or for the wrong reasons.
(Medicus Viola: Another secret. This one's a li'l dark. The Imperium don't really care about the Grey Knights' butcherin'. If people know the Grey Knights as the violent lunatics, they don't know 'em for their real job. It's a cover.)
Well, that's horrifying.
(Medicus Viola: Sure, but it kept Sister Vandire off the scent, huh? Doubt she thinks they even fight demons no more.)
How do you know all this?
(Medicus Viola: I knew a Platinum Knight. I gave him legs. I healed his broken body. I watched him mutate into a Nid. Told me a lot before he got overgrown by his Nid parts.)
And you...grafted Tyranid parts to you, after that?
(Medicus Viola: For science, right?)
You are mad.
(Medicus Viola: All science is about breakin' norms.)
...This sounds like some sort of infernal secret police, over-exaggerating the Daemonic threat.
(Medicus Viola: Yep.)
(Medicus Viola: Ain't none of that gonna make someone rational.)
...Pardon me, but it seems as though everyone else exists in some grand space opera tale, while these Grey Knights live in a cosmic horror story? If you'll permit the literary allusions, of course.
(Medicus Viola: Yep. Only war. Wouldn't you go a li'l mad?)
I strongly suspect that half the reason for their violence is their fanaticism, rather than their dances with the maddest parts of the Chaos deities' souls.
(Medicus Viola: Six of one, half a dozen of the other.)
Oh, I do like eggplants! Ancient humans used to eat those in dozens, yes?
(Medicus Viola: Yep.)
Well, this isn't true. Daemons are creatures of ideas, emotions, concepts, and feelings, but they are not simply "dark". They are unlike other sophonts, of course, but they are not merely evil.
(Medicus Viola: Sure, but armor breaks, cracks, fragments, and rusts. Things get in.)
That certainly doesn't justify the cruelty.
...They seem more like a death squad or secret police than noble knights.
(Medicus Viola: Not gonna dispute that.)
...Slavery is wrong.
(Medicus Viola: Sure, but being a Space Marine serf is one of the less bad kinds of slavery in the Imperium. Still don't justify it, though.)
...This was "proven" by whom?
The Order is merely ceremonial, and the Paladins mostly political as far as I know, and both are made up of Platinum Knights and Grey Knights.
...They lay a trail of destruction, brutality, and butchery in their path across those five war zones and one city.
(Medicus Viola: Yeah, that'll rip an army apart.)
What an absurd and cult-like exaltation of idiotic notions of masculinity.
(Medicus Viola: Translate?)
It sounds like a psychopathic fraternity.
That seems about accurate to my sources, though the Resurrection of Jay Effkay would seem to indicate that not all of the knowledge the Grey Knights are aware of would be beneficial.
(Medicus Viola: What?)
Nothing, pet.
(Medicus Viola: ...Is this just how Dark Eldar talk?)
...Well, I thought I was getting the sense that you needed a...matriarcha dominans, as you Imperials say.
(Medicus Viola: I ain't interested in your dominant mommy shenanigans.)
You aren't a lesbian?
(Medicus Viola: I'm sexually attracted to Tyranids, patriarchs, and women in denim short shorts.)
...Tyranids?
(Medicus Viola: Yeah, the smart ones you can have a chat with if you know how. Hive Tyrants. I ain't no sex pervert.)
Have you lain with a Hive Tyrant?
(Medicus Viola: You gotta be creative.)
I was not asking that, but now I know!
(Medicus Viola: ...Gotta respect that.)
What kind of Powerful Person with Proclivities for Painful Picks and Preferences nonsense is this? Making the "hard decisions" does not make one strong or admirable. It simply means one is willing to be cruel for what might be some necessity. That said, it is rarely that necessary. This narrative of hyper-masculine secret warriors smacks of masculinity to me, and I want no part of it. Perhaps their deeds are shameful and cruel no matter what the cause.
(Medicus Viola: ...Yeah, you could be right, I guess. Huh.)
I still don't think that these people are the "elite" of anything. Your PPPPPP logic can not dull all my doubts.
Well, there's the casual bigotry. What a complete shock.
So they're violent, authoritarian thugs. How uncommon for the Imperium. They really are a secret police in that way.
I find it highly unlikely such an "evil" is true. It's probably an old story, a folk legend.
What is with Imperials and their stories of secret prisons and sanctums? I suppose it's a means of covertly threatening the populace into accepting their rule.
(Medicus Viola: The truth is usually a mix of most perspectives.)
It seems more likely that Crowe's war against the darkest aspects of the Warp would simply have psychotic effects.
(Medicus Viola: I could see that.)
(Medicus Viola: What's a chancel?)
It's the part of a house of worship in which the preacher stands along with the choir and such.
The Butcher of the Sisterhood, the Tyrant of a Thousand Worlds, the Eater of Lies, the King of the Smoke, The Whisper in the Warp, the Monster, the Undertow King, Lord Nautilus, the Daemon Sanctified, these are all names of that great hydra Draigo, the Daemon Prince formed out of a Grey Knight, the one who the Platinum Knights in their faithful ignorance refuse to acknowledge. It was he who slaughtered the Sororitas who accompanied him, it was he who became a dark creature of sea and ink, it was he who embraced the Fetid Eel.
(Medicus Viola: ...You don't seriously believe that even a scum-sucker like Kaldor Draigo would be a Daemon Prince in death, do you?)
Oh, I completely believe it. He delved into the darkest sides of the Warp in his holy war.
(Medicus Viola: Is this some kinda Dark Eldar thing where you assume everyone is as self-centered and ambitious as y'all are?)
Well, I spoke to Sister Vandire, and she was the one who told me. He is the Lord of Coldest Ocean.
(Medicus Viola: Sister Vandire, who we know hates the Grey Knights and pro'lly hates Draigo most of all for being their leader.)
Vior Or'es also thought it sounded likely.
(Medicus Viola: The warp-blind xenos from a culture mostly removed from the Grey Knights, who'd have no accurate sources. That Vior Or'es?)
Yes, precisely.
(Medicus Viola: Well, consider me outvoted!)
He is, I know it. The rest of us know it, why won't you?
(Medicus Viola: I dunno, maybe he just don't seem like the type? I swear to the Hive, he's just fuckin' around there in the warp, killin' shit. That's what he does.)
How dreadfully pedestrian.
(Medicus Viola: Ya really only care about what sounds good, huh? Ya see some absolutely fuckin' buck-wild kriffshit and decide "Well, that's narratively fascinatin'! I'm gonna decide this whacko conspiracy theory is my new reality!)
...Please be nice.
(Medicus Viola: ...Yeah, you're right. Maybe Kaldor Draigo really is a Daemon Prince.
Another book of propaganda and lies defeated by Ynathe Azuuza.
(Medicus Viola: Hey, Ynathe. Sorry I got mad, but ya gotta realize that not everyone who lives in the Imperium is too stupid or evil to leave. Fuck, I'm willin' to toy with powers beyond my comprehension, but even I get that sometimes you wanna go to Church or read from a library with real paper.)
I don't think everyone in the Imperium are stupid or evil.
(Medicus Viola: Just most of 'em?)
You aren't stupid, just charmingly backwoods!
(Medicus Viola: Ya know, I thought talkin' to a Dark Eldar would be like talkin' to some kinda torture queen. Turns out yer more like those goofily ignorant upper-crust weirdos from the vox-plays. I don't mean that as an insult.)
Well, I feel a bit insulted.
(Medicus Viola: Nobody's sayin' you're some kinda evil monster, but if ya keep lookin' down your damn nose ya might never be able to see someone else's face.)
That was a very well-composed metaphor for a rustic type.
(Medicus Viola: I have three degrees. I just also have an accent.)
...You have three degrees? I didn't think the Imperium had schools other than Church feudalism.
(Medicus Viola: Well, we have universities, and when ya think of the Imperium less as a giant evil empire and more as a buncha linked principalities, ya'll pro'lly understand it better. Get some rest, Ynathe.)
Thank you, Viola. Genuinely.
IC:
(Sister Vandire: Are we really talking about them?)
Why would we not?
(Sister Vandire: "The Grey Knights are monsters" is well-agreed upon. In fact, it is so well agreed-upon, that a nearly-autonomous section of the Chapter exists for the sake of being less monstrous. Is this going to be some anti-Imperial rant like the Custodes review? What is even the point of talking about the most shameful Astartes to remain in the Imperium?)
Well, there is no point, really. We just have to get through all of these Codexes, and this was the next one on the list.
(Sister Vandire: There is no reason to talk about these people. All it does is makes xenos states look better, as if the Fourth Sphere Expansion Fleet or the Kabal of the Last Hatred aren't equally horrible. Every country has its monsters.)
My dear, I'm afraid as usual you're missing the void for the asteroids. If there were a Codex about the Last Hatred or the Fourth Sphere that talked of them as the brigands they are, there would be no need to discuss it. However, if there were a work that praised the scoundrels, it would need to be dissected. How about this? Why don't we allow you to take the lead? Surely a devoted Sister of Battle would never taint her Imperium with a broad brush dipped in Grey ink?
(Sister Vandire: Fine. Works for me.)
(Sister Vandire: By the Thrice-Praised Savior, this is the most disguisting bit of revisionism I've ever read!)
Oh?
(Sister Vandire: Not even Imperial agitprop is close to this level of hateful grox shit. The Grey Knights are corrupt, violent, sociopathic cowards who butchered Sisters of Battle to protect themselves against Daemons!)
Oh, dear.
(Sister Vandire: Fuck you! Fuck you, you sanctimonious, supplicating shits! There is nothing holy or heavenly about the Knights of Khorne, other than their lies! Burn! Burn this book! No more review!)
...I believe we should read it.
(Sister Vandire: Elite? This dares to call the Grey Rogues the most elite? What about when the Space Wolves stopped them from turning on their own Sisters of Battle? What about when they lost catastrophically in the Damocles Gulf? What about when the Ultramarines—and yes, they are mighty—defended an entire hive city from their rapacious eyes with ease?)
(Sister Vandire: Oh, well, krak! the Grey Knights only seem to butcher the undeluded, educated, and moral! Oh, and their ridiculous baby-carrier walkers are far less effective than even a xenos Broadside mech could be!)
I'm afraid I'm quite confused. I thought psykers weren't allowed among the Imperials.
(Sister Vandire: No, Space Marines often have among them Librarians able to wield that power. They are above suspicion.)
(Sister Vandire: They're shilling the Space Marines' hated War Crime Divison just to sell models, aren't they?)
That seems to be the case. These Games Workshop people must be utterly desperate.
(Sister Vandire: Well, I'll have to send in a complaint.)
(Sister Vandire: That anyone could say such lies about the Arch-Heretics demands immediate rectification!)
Please avoid killing people.
(Sister Vandire: I'm just frustrated that people would defame the Emperor's will by lionizing those people.)
(Sister Vandire: Kaldor Draigo should be erased from existence!)
Could we tone down the anger?
(Sister Vandire: Imagine if there was a Codex on the Kabal of the Last Hatred. Wouldn't you be mad if it was written like this?)
I just feel as though you blow up at people.
(Sister Vandire: Well, I'm not blowing up at you, am I?)
You truly need some wine and Soma.
(Sister Vandire: Maybe.)
(Sister Vandire: Much of the reason Psykers are treated so poorly on many worlds—not the half-truths about Chaos influence, the real reason—is because of these "battle-brothers".)
I do not know if it can be distilled down to one enemy, my dear.
(Sister Vandire: The Grey Knights scare people.)
(Sister Vandire: ...They always find daemons just happening to be wherever they've butchered and looted last.)
(Sister Vandire: Emperor protect me. I can't do this without wanting to break someone's nose. I need a break. Get one of your guest reviewers.)
...Well, alright, I suppose, if you must.
(Medicus Viola: Good evening, everyone.)
Good evening, Viola!
(Medicus Viola: Well, hey, great to be here.)
What a crock of pot. The Grey Knights weren't some legendary force, they're merely decievers and lie-spinners.
(Medicus Viola: Nah. The story of the Grey Knights is a hell of a lot more complicated than that. Sadder, too. You ever wonder why there are so many Platinum Knights who reject the cruelty of the Grey Knights and are trying to fight for the truth? You ever wonder what happens when people get exposed to the fuckin' darker incarnations of the Chaos Gods? I know they ain't all night terrors and bloody murder, but no god was ever fully good.)
What do you mean?
(Medicus Viola: Look. You're a person, right? Imagine all of your darkest thoughts. Maybe you fantasize about killin' a coworker. Maybe you feel like that guy you like would be hot if you just took him. Maybe you see a Tyranid and think "hot". Maybe you're down and out and you need money, and your first thought's to rob somewhere. You don't act on those thoughts, right?)
Yes?
(Medicus Viola: Well, the Chaos Gods have those parts of them too, and when you're a being of spiritual energy sometimes that stuff leaks. When you have the urge to kill yer annoying coworker, you get into a bloody daydream. When Khorne gets that fantasy, other people get that daydream and it's more real than real. The Grey Knights aren't just assholes to be dirtwads. They're assholes because when you deal with the repressed darker sides of Chaos, you go nuts. It rubs off on ya. So Platinum Knights are the ones who got out of the game, and Grey Knights are the ones that kept going until it made 'em monsters. You got that acquaintance who worships Slaanesh, right? Well, imagine being exposed to Slaanesh's darkest parts, the stuff zie would never normally show, the stuff zie holds in, the stuff that sometimes gets out. That's why the Grey Knights are the most infamous Chapter in the galaxy: they're not thinkin' straight. Most of the time, they don't even know that real shit is real. They think they're in a big daydream, a big violent daydream where nothin' really matters.)
My word.
(Medicus Viola: Look, I might just be a mad scientist, flesh-sculptor, and genestealer "cultist", but I know crazy. I know crazy real well. Ain't nobody's crazy just to be crazy.)
...Why do you put quotation marks around the word "cultist"?
(Medicus Viola: I don't worship the Nids. I just find 'em fascinating. I think there's a lot we can learn about 'em. They're perfect survivors, adaptable. Me and my, uh, friends, we do lots of...Well, I'm a lot more Nid than I am a lotta things, I'll tell ya that.)
What if they devour your world?
(Medicus Viola: They're animals. You gotta think of Nids like a stampede. They go somewhere, crush everything below them, and move on. They're not full of hate or anything, they just wanna eat. So you nudge 'em out of the way, get the ones that aren't as homicidal. Ya ever studied ecology?)
Perhaps we should return to the Grey Knights.
(Medicus Viola: Sure.)
(Medicus Viola: Here's a tip. They weren't chosen just for their dedication, though obviously that was a lot of it. They were chosen for mental strength, for knowing reality. Trips deep into the Warp are trips into the Chaos Gods' mindscape. You gotta know what's just the mind. You gotta know your mind.)
...Have you ever had sex with a Tyranid? Can they consent?
(Medicus Viola: ...What? You're a real freak, Ynathe.)
I would never participate in bestiality! I just wasn't sure if there were any sapient ones!
(Medicus Viola: What are you, a monster-fucker?)
Perhaps...
(Medicus Viola: Nice.)
Well, this sounds like a just-so story to me.
(Medicus Viola: I'm skeptical about them being made from the Emperor's gene-seed, but I buy the rest of it. Big Emps is a melodramatic guy.)
(Medicus Viola: That's insanity: being disconnected from reality. People think insanity makes you evil, or violent. Ain't true. Most insane people are dangerous only to themselves. Most Chaos cultists are a little insane, and many of them are the most ethical people you'll meet. Most people who are disconnected from reality think that people are out to get them or that they've got nothin' to live for, not that they oughta butcher some people. Space Marines ain't most people. They're weapons, made to fight. So, when they go nuts, they fight things that aren't there, or the wrong kindsa things, or for the wrong reasons.
(Medicus Viola: Another secret. This one's a li'l dark. The Imperium don't really care about the Grey Knights' butcherin'. If people know the Grey Knights as the violent lunatics, they don't know 'em for their real job. It's a cover.)
Well, that's horrifying.
(Medicus Viola: Sure, but it kept Sister Vandire off the scent, huh? Doubt she thinks they even fight demons no more.)
How do you know all this?
(Medicus Viola: I knew a Platinum Knight. I gave him legs. I healed his broken body. I watched him mutate into a Nid. Told me a lot before he got overgrown by his Nid parts.)
And you...grafted Tyranid parts to you, after that?
(Medicus Viola: For science, right?)
You are mad.
(Medicus Viola: All science is about breakin' norms.)
...This sounds like some sort of infernal secret police, over-exaggerating the Daemonic threat.
(Medicus Viola: Yep.)
(Medicus Viola: Ain't none of that gonna make someone rational.)
...Pardon me, but it seems as though everyone else exists in some grand space opera tale, while these Grey Knights live in a cosmic horror story? If you'll permit the literary allusions, of course.
(Medicus Viola: Yep. Only war. Wouldn't you go a li'l mad?)
I strongly suspect that half the reason for their violence is their fanaticism, rather than their dances with the maddest parts of the Chaos deities' souls.
(Medicus Viola: Six of one, half a dozen of the other.)
Oh, I do like eggplants! Ancient humans used to eat those in dozens, yes?
(Medicus Viola: Yep.)
Well, this isn't true. Daemons are creatures of ideas, emotions, concepts, and feelings, but they are not simply "dark". They are unlike other sophonts, of course, but they are not merely evil.
(Medicus Viola: Sure, but armor breaks, cracks, fragments, and rusts. Things get in.)
That certainly doesn't justify the cruelty.
...They seem more like a death squad or secret police than noble knights.
(Medicus Viola: Not gonna dispute that.)
...Slavery is wrong.
(Medicus Viola: Sure, but being a Space Marine serf is one of the less bad kinds of slavery in the Imperium. Still don't justify it, though.)
...This was "proven" by whom?
The Order is merely ceremonial, and the Paladins mostly political as far as I know, and both are made up of Platinum Knights and Grey Knights.
...They lay a trail of destruction, brutality, and butchery in their path across those five war zones and one city.
(Medicus Viola: Yeah, that'll rip an army apart.)
What an absurd and cult-like exaltation of idiotic notions of masculinity.
(Medicus Viola: Translate?)
It sounds like a psychopathic fraternity.
That seems about accurate to my sources, though the Resurrection of Jay Effkay would seem to indicate that not all of the knowledge the Grey Knights are aware of would be beneficial.
(Medicus Viola: What?)
Nothing, pet.
(Medicus Viola: ...Is this just how Dark Eldar talk?)
...Well, I thought I was getting the sense that you needed a...matriarcha dominans, as you Imperials say.
(Medicus Viola: I ain't interested in your dominant mommy shenanigans.)
You aren't a lesbian?
(Medicus Viola: I'm sexually attracted to Tyranids, patriarchs, and women in denim short shorts.)
...Tyranids?
(Medicus Viola: Yeah, the smart ones you can have a chat with if you know how. Hive Tyrants. I ain't no sex pervert.)
Have you lain with a Hive Tyrant?
(Medicus Viola: You gotta be creative.)
I was not asking that, but now I know!
(Medicus Viola: ...Gotta respect that.)
What kind of Powerful Person with Proclivities for Painful Picks and Preferences nonsense is this? Making the "hard decisions" does not make one strong or admirable. It simply means one is willing to be cruel for what might be some necessity. That said, it is rarely that necessary. This narrative of hyper-masculine secret warriors smacks of masculinity to me, and I want no part of it. Perhaps their deeds are shameful and cruel no matter what the cause.
(Medicus Viola: ...Yeah, you could be right, I guess. Huh.)
I still don't think that these people are the "elite" of anything. Your PPPPPP logic can not dull all my doubts.
Well, there's the casual bigotry. What a complete shock.
So they're violent, authoritarian thugs. How uncommon for the Imperium. They really are a secret police in that way.
I find it highly unlikely such an "evil" is true. It's probably an old story, a folk legend.
What is with Imperials and their stories of secret prisons and sanctums? I suppose it's a means of covertly threatening the populace into accepting their rule.
(Medicus Viola: The truth is usually a mix of most perspectives.)
It seems more likely that Crowe's war against the darkest aspects of the Warp would simply have psychotic effects.
(Medicus Viola: I could see that.)
(Medicus Viola: What's a chancel?)
It's the part of a house of worship in which the preacher stands along with the choir and such.
The Butcher of the Sisterhood, the Tyrant of a Thousand Worlds, the Eater of Lies, the King of the Smoke, The Whisper in the Warp, the Monster, the Undertow King, Lord Nautilus, the Daemon Sanctified, these are all names of that great hydra Draigo, the Daemon Prince formed out of a Grey Knight, the one who the Platinum Knights in their faithful ignorance refuse to acknowledge. It was he who slaughtered the Sororitas who accompanied him, it was he who became a dark creature of sea and ink, it was he who embraced the Fetid Eel.
(Medicus Viola: ...You don't seriously believe that even a scum-sucker like Kaldor Draigo would be a Daemon Prince in death, do you?)
Oh, I completely believe it. He delved into the darkest sides of the Warp in his holy war.
(Medicus Viola: Is this some kinda Dark Eldar thing where you assume everyone is as self-centered and ambitious as y'all are?)
Well, I spoke to Sister Vandire, and she was the one who told me. He is the Lord of Coldest Ocean.
(Medicus Viola: Sister Vandire, who we know hates the Grey Knights and pro'lly hates Draigo most of all for being their leader.)
Vior Or'es also thought it sounded likely.
(Medicus Viola: The warp-blind xenos from a culture mostly removed from the Grey Knights, who'd have no accurate sources. That Vior Or'es?)
Yes, precisely.
(Medicus Viola: Well, consider me outvoted!)
He is, I know it. The rest of us know it, why won't you?
(Medicus Viola: I dunno, maybe he just don't seem like the type? I swear to the Hive, he's just fuckin' around there in the warp, killin' shit. That's what he does.)
How dreadfully pedestrian.
(Medicus Viola: Ya really only care about what sounds good, huh? Ya see some absolutely fuckin' buck-wild kriffshit and decide "Well, that's narratively fascinatin'! I'm gonna decide this whacko conspiracy theory is my new reality!)
...Please be nice.
(Medicus Viola: ...Yeah, you're right. Maybe Kaldor Draigo really is a Daemon Prince.
Another book of propaganda and lies defeated by Ynathe Azuuza.
(Medicus Viola: Hey, Ynathe. Sorry I got mad, but ya gotta realize that not everyone who lives in the Imperium is too stupid or evil to leave. Fuck, I'm willin' to toy with powers beyond my comprehension, but even I get that sometimes you wanna go to Church or read from a library with real paper.)
I don't think everyone in the Imperium are stupid or evil.
(Medicus Viola: Just most of 'em?)
You aren't stupid, just charmingly backwoods!
(Medicus Viola: Ya know, I thought talkin' to a Dark Eldar would be like talkin' to some kinda torture queen. Turns out yer more like those goofily ignorant upper-crust weirdos from the vox-plays. I don't mean that as an insult.)
Well, I feel a bit insulted.
(Medicus Viola: Nobody's sayin' you're some kinda evil monster, but if ya keep lookin' down your damn nose ya might never be able to see someone else's face.)
That was a very well-composed metaphor for a rustic type.
(Medicus Viola: I have three degrees. I just also have an accent.)
...You have three degrees? I didn't think the Imperium had schools other than Church feudalism.
(Medicus Viola: Well, we have universities, and when ya think of the Imperium less as a giant evil empire and more as a buncha linked principalities, ya'll pro'lly understand it better. Get some rest, Ynathe.)
Thank you, Viola. Genuinely.
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IC: Not to mention the work of the mighty Custodes who protect the imperial palace from murder-tourists(yes those exist, combine the worst aspects of a tourist, a serial killer and a Kabal of Last Hatred member) ,invaders and the High Lords incompetence(the invader issue can usually be solved by a quick deployment of a Custodes or two, the others recquire constant vigilance and heavy artillery).
IC:That's partially why Terra's so unstable and deamons are such a issue.It isn't just the worst parts of a Chaos God's Subconscious but the conscious part of Khorn/Slaaneesh/Nurgle/Tzeentch wanting to murder the fuck out of the Astronomican and everything associated with that bleeding out into reality unrestrained.It wasn't as bad when we had enough of what could callously be called extra strength psyker ductape to patch the whole planet over but now we don't have enough psykers due to the 'drought' in Black Ship collection efforts and the Throne had rotted to the point it even of ot was at full psyker sacrifce power it wouldn't work as well as it used to.
For me the High Lords live in some politial opera tale combined with unironic raunchy satire while the palace is approximately 50% cosmic horror and 50% slice of life with oiled custodians,very high Lucifer Blacks and quite a large amount of Custodian/Sister Of Silence bonding.
I mean you don't need to be deamony to be around in the warp.The Left Hand can stride in and out of the warp like a massive Warp Spider(I wouldn't advise being around it though since it will require a lot of anti depressants and tranquilizers).I also believe that it makes total sense for a space marine to go murderhoboing their way through the warp.
Playing contrarian it could be possible he actually acquired a genuinely deamonic sword(who aren't exactly the sanest of all deamons) and caused a feedback loop of the deamon getting insane fro Crowe and Crowe getting crazier from the insane deamon.
- Location
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ALL FIRMLY OOC:
To be fair, at least one of them (the institutional trauma of being veterans of the psychic wars) is something you really couldn't have made by doing this to a normal Space Marine chapter everyone hates like the Minotaurs, Iron Fists, or Marines Malevolent.
Since your Grey Knights are barely recognizable as the canonical Grey Knights, I am hereby going to call them Vantablack Knights. Vantablack mixes with (traditionally 'white') platinum to produce Grey, so we have effectively split the Grey Knights of canon into two organizations, one light side and one dark side!
Of course, it also explains why most conventional sophonts really, really do not like them, because when your worst thoughts consistently spill out into reality with little restraint, and some of those thoughts are capable of boiling worlds, you make a lot of enemies pretty fast.
But it also explains why people who make themselves over as constant full-time Chaos fighters tend to be pretty unhinged themselves. Because they're spending a lot, a LOT, of time seeking out the bad acid trips of a cosmic entity and trying to blow them up from inside.
In real life the thing that makes a serf a serf is that they're legally required to remain on the land they live on and can't leave.
More generally, of course, yes, the "only one in a thousand survives our ultra-rigorous trials" crap is a perfect example of the concept of military training being grossly misunderstood, distorted, and turned into insane bullshit by the ideas of sour-masculinity-gone-toxic.
Also, the bolded sentence is an interesting reflection of IC/OOC authorial choice, I don't exactly know which words to use and I don't have a cohesive thing to say about it, it just caught the eye.
But it's not like you'll ever see a Grey Knight infiltrating a rebel secret society or something. That's not their function. They're not the Space Stasi.
Though it also makes just using the name "Kaldor Draigo" kind of pointless, because you're literally just erasing the guy and replacing him with an original character intended to be an evil opposite.
After all, we just observed that an entity constructed to be a living weapon (namely, a Space Marine) and then marinated in the nastier parts of the Warp will tend to become violently insane.
Wouldn't a living weapon made from the nastier parts of the Warp be just as insane, if not more so? That's just the same process, only cutting out the middleman.
Hm. I get why you made this artistic choice, but it bears in mind that you're basically doing "I reject your reality and substitute my own" entirely on the Grey Knights here, for the sake of making a set of points.
To be fair, at least one of them (the institutional trauma of being veterans of the psychic wars) is something you really couldn't have made by doing this to a normal Space Marine chapter everyone hates like the Minotaurs, Iron Fists, or Marines Malevolent.
Since your Grey Knights are barely recognizable as the canonical Grey Knights, I am hereby going to call them Vantablack Knights. Vantablack mixes with (traditionally 'white') platinum to produce Grey, so we have effectively split the Grey Knights of canon into two organizations, one light side and one dark side!
Honestly, I think you'd have been better off not keeping this specific singular atrocity, or anything that flows naturally out of it having happened, unless you mean to imply that this is a routine occurrence that the Vantablack Knights do all the time. Because kept as-is, the atrocity becomes an identifying marker that implies that "yes, I intend these to be the canonical Grey Knights viewed through a different lens," when in reality you are doing a search-and-replace and swapping them out for "Vantablack Knights."
It's, as yet, interestingly unclear here whether you're preserving the basic premise that all psykers aboard the Black Ships who test for being suitable for Space Marine conversion are sent off to Titan to be made into Grey Knights or die in the process. I'll see if that clears up.
That's... actually a very interesting take on Chaos.
Of course, it also explains why most conventional sophonts really, really do not like them, because when your worst thoughts consistently spill out into reality with little restraint, and some of those thoughts are capable of boiling worlds, you make a lot of enemies pretty fast.
But it also explains why people who make themselves over as constant full-time Chaos fighters tend to be pretty unhinged themselves. Because they're spending a lot, a LOT, of time seeking out the bad acid trips of a cosmic entity and trying to blow them up from inside.
See, the thing is, I'm thinking as I read this, is that if they kept that firm grip on reality, they presumably wouldn't be the vicious Vantablack-Knightly maniacs they are presented as in this Let's Read and its continuity.
Note that if the exact words are "gene-seed forged by the Emperor in isolation," that's not quite the same as "from the Emperor directly." It just means the Emperor spent actual significant time messing with the gene sequences that would go into the Grey Knights' posthuman enhancements, as in, he did the work himself. Which isn't much of a stretch if he also did the work on the primarchs.
Of course, you'd really, really, REALLY expect this to apply to Chaos Marines in general, as a logical consequence, so I'd hope to see this thread recur when we get to codices that talk about Chaos Marines. Because it's not like Abbadon the Despoiler doesn't match this description of a living weapon posthuman exposed to the crazy of the Warp and likely to lash out accordingly.
That is literally their canonical job, it's just that canon allows a historically illiterate person the option of taking them at face value.
On the other hand, it sounds like the kind of daemons that spill out onto other people's metaphorical lawns do tend to be the "cosmic bad acid trip" entities that would come closer to matching this description.
Honestly, I feel like we have so little information on what being a Space Marine 'serf' means that it's not even clear what restrictions they face. Are they forbidden to leave the planet? Are they even actually enslaved? I genuinely do not know, like, literally have no information on this. Probably varies from chapter to chapter.
In real life the thing that makes a serf a serf is that they're legally required to remain on the land they live on and can't leave.
In fairness this might well be the result of something like a reasonably rigorous study of combat effectiveness, at least in theory?
I mean, "fraternity" isn't really the word in English, since it connotes a sort of partying unseriousness and I'm pretty sure even the Vantablack Knights are very, very serious emotionally. On the other hand, the viewpoint character here is a Dark Eldar, and their idea of a fraternity may be different.
More generally, of course, yes, the "only one in a thousand survives our ultra-rigorous trials" crap is a perfect example of the concept of military training being grossly misunderstood, distorted, and turned into insane bullshit by the ideas of sour-masculinity-gone-toxic.
...Is this a back-reference to that stupid conspiracy theory thing that Our Reviewer got suckered into?
Without actually having read this codex, I can't be sure, but if they're specifically talking about the "Brotherhood of Wardmakers," it is at least conceivable that they're on the level. The guys who make the anti-Chaos deflector shields might legit say "yeah, if we weren't doing our jobs, a lot of bad stuff would have happened."
Also, the bolded sentence is an interesting reflection of IC/OOC authorial choice, I don't exactly know which words to use and I don't have a cohesive thing to say about it, it just caught the eye.
Wellllll, Aeldari are pretty darn meddlesome. Anyone with farseers would be meddlesome, because the temptation to indulge in hilarious temporal shenanigans would be irresistible. As adjectives go, I think it's pretty fair.
I think they're too small to be effective as a secret police force, really. There's not that many of them, and it's a big galaxy. There's multiple overlocking Imperial institutions that serve the function of "secret police," and the Grey Knights are at most the brute squad that gets called in to act as muscle on very rare and specific occasions by the more prevalent Imperial secret police.
But it's not like you'll ever see a Grey Knight infiltrating a rebel secret society or something. That's not their function. They're not the Space Stasi.
Well, if the Vantablack Knights actually do exist in a cosmic horror setting, you'd expect some sealed super-beings to exist, and for many of these super-beings to be potentially hostile to, well, most things that are recognizably a person.
Well, at least this time you're pre-emptively calling yourself out on the tendency to replace canon stuff with lurid conspiracy theory stuff.
Though it also makes just using the name "Kaldor Draigo" kind of pointless, because you're literally just erasing the guy and replacing him with an original character intended to be an evil opposite.
I like it.
After all, we just observed that an entity constructed to be a living weapon (namely, a Space Marine) and then marinated in the nastier parts of the Warp will tend to become violently insane.
Wouldn't a living weapon made from the nastier parts of the Warp be just as insane, if not more so? That's just the same process, only cutting out the middleman.
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IC: There is something I have considered the Foundation of Chapter is done in large groupings of chapters for instance Second, Fourth, Twenty Eighth and so on. It in many instances required either the participation a "Parent" Chapter that is donating personnel and equipment authorized by the Chapter Master and then authorized again by the High Lords of Terra. Granted some chapters fall through the cracks for instance the Carcharodons whom only reappeared during the Badab War and were instrumental in the Imperium winning the conflict but it seems to be that their records did come back although confused in what they where. The reason I bring this up is two fold the Grey Knights seem to be not cast-offs left to their own devices with little beyond the bare necessity. Rather if there is any truth in the articles of these codex they appear to be given a great deal of resources. A fief within the Sol System it's self, how much does the Inquisition and the Ordo Malleus know of their personal Astartes actions. Chapters are not known for taking pain to inform outsiders of their actions.
Unrelated what is an eggplant, I have been eating more then nutrient paste recently and have been looking to expand my diet. Do they still exist what would one have to do to acquire an eggplant.
I will not dispute that serfdom practiced by the Chapters is a bad thing in many cases. I will say though that the how it is done tends to vary some do in fact simply take those they have decided are suitable, to simply recruiting directly in which the Master of Scouts will simply walk amongst the civilians making inquires with the local government/or directly to civilians on volunteers. Others tend to only pull from the population they directly protect that being from their recruiting world exclusively.
On the Tyranids an older battle-brother whom had severed with the Deathwatch once described the it's as more a InterLinked Biosphere rather than a series of organism. He found them quite fascinating as well having read treaties penned by Inquisitor Fidus Kryptman -yes the Butcher of Ultima, Fidus Kryptman- who he found had some interesting insights into the nature of the Tyranids I grant I have now idea how true they are but he did make quite the body work before his excommunication. Although it should be stated that his answer in Octarius was dangerously flawed to put it mildly at least that is the current opinion of most looking into the matter.
OOC: liked this codex entry and its exploration of the wider AU beyond simply the actions of the Grey Knights. I'm also really enjoying how the world is coming together through them. I am also interested to see how the Chaos Astartes compare having also be exposed to the Warp in different but similar ways to the Grey Knights.
Unrelated what is an eggplant, I have been eating more then nutrient paste recently and have been looking to expand my diet. Do they still exist what would one have to do to acquire an eggplant.
I will not dispute that serfdom practiced by the Chapters is a bad thing in many cases. I will say though that the how it is done tends to vary some do in fact simply take those they have decided are suitable, to simply recruiting directly in which the Master of Scouts will simply walk amongst the civilians making inquires with the local government/or directly to civilians on volunteers. Others tend to only pull from the population they directly protect that being from their recruiting world exclusively.
On the Tyranids an older battle-brother whom had severed with the Deathwatch once described the it's as more a InterLinked Biosphere rather than a series of organism. He found them quite fascinating as well having read treaties penned by Inquisitor Fidus Kryptman -yes the Butcher of Ultima, Fidus Kryptman- who he found had some interesting insights into the nature of the Tyranids I grant I have now idea how true they are but he did make quite the body work before his excommunication. Although it should be stated that his answer in Octarius was dangerously flawed to put it mildly at least that is the current opinion of most looking into the matter.
OOC: liked this codex entry and its exploration of the wider AU beyond simply the actions of the Grey Knights. I'm also really enjoying how the world is coming together through them. I am also interested to see how the Chaos Astartes compare having also be exposed to the Warp in different but similar ways to the Grey Knights.
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Well, if we take this critique of the Vantablack Knights at face value, I'd expect there to be two kinds of Chaos Marines.
1) Marines who diverged so far from their original purpose and mentality that they effectively cease to be living weapons.
2) Marines who kept their original purpose and turned into homicidal maniacs very like the Vantablack Knights are presented as being here.
The Vantablack Knights and In-Universe Responses Double Feature
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OOC:ALL FIRMLY OOC:
Hm. I get why you made this artistic choice, but it bears in mind that you're basically doing "I reject your reality and substitute my own" entirely on the Grey Knights here, for the sake of making a set of points.
To be fair, at least one of them (the institutional trauma of being veterans of the psychic wars) is something you really couldn't have made by doing this to a normal Space Marine chapter everyone hates like the Minotaurs, Iron Fists, or Marines Malevolent.
Since your Grey Knights are barely recognizable as the canonical Grey Knights, I am hereby going to call them Vantablack Knights. Vantablack mixes with (traditionally 'white') platinum to produce Grey, so we have effectively split the Grey Knights of canon into two organizations, one light side and one dark side!
Honestly, I think you'd have been better off not keeping this specific singular atrocity, or anything that flows naturally out of it having happened, unless you mean to imply that this is a routine occurrence that the Vantablack Knights do all the time. Because kept as-is, the atrocity becomes an identifying marker that implies that "yes, I intend these to be the canonical Grey Knights viewed through a different lens," when in reality you are doing a search-and-replace and swapping them out for "Vantablack Knights."
It's, as yet, interestingly unclear here whether you're preserving the basic premise that all psykers aboard the Black Ships who test for being suitable for Space Marine conversion are sent off to Titan to be made into Grey Knights or die in the process. I'll see if that clears up.
That's... actually a very interesting take on Chaos.
Of course, it also explains why most conventional sophonts really, really do not like them, because when your worst thoughts consistently spill out into reality with little restraint, and some of those thoughts are capable of boiling worlds, you make a lot of enemies pretty fast.
But it also explains why people who make themselves over as constant full-time Chaos fighters tend to be pretty unhinged themselves. Because they're spending a lot, a LOT, of time seeking out the bad acid trips of a cosmic entity and trying to blow them up from inside.
See, the thing is, I'm thinking as I read this, is that if they kept that firm grip on reality, they presumably wouldn't be the vicious Vantablack-Knightly maniacs they are presented as in this Let's Read and its continuity.
Note that if the exact words are "gene-seed forged by the Emperor in isolation," that's not quite the same as "from the Emperor directly." It just means the Emperor spent actual significant time messing with the gene sequences that would go into the Grey Knights' posthuman enhancements, as in, he did the work himself. Which isn't much of a stretch if he also did the work on the primarchs.
Of course, you'd really, really, REALLY expect this to apply to Chaos Marines in general, as a logical consequence, so I'd hope to see this thread recur when we get to codices that talk about Chaos Marines. Because it's not like Abbadon the Despoiler doesn't match this description of a living weapon posthuman exposed to the crazy of the Warp and likely to lash out accordingly.
That is literally their canonical job, it's just that canon allows a historically illiterate person the option of taking them at face value.
On the other hand, it sounds like the kind of daemons that spill out onto other people's metaphorical lawns do tend to be the "cosmic bad acid trip" entities that would come closer to matching this description.
Honestly, I feel like we have so little information on what being a Space Marine 'serf' means that it's not even clear what restrictions they face. Are they forbidden to leave the planet? Are they even actually enslaved? I genuinely do not know, like, literally have no information on this. Probably varies from chapter to chapter.
In real life the thing that makes a serf a serf is that they're legally required to remain on the land they live on and can't leave.
In fairness this might well be the result of something like a reasonably rigorous study of combat effectiveness, at least in theory?
I mean, "fraternity" isn't really the word in English, since it connotes a sort of partying unseriousness and I'm pretty sure even the Vantablack Knights are very, very serious emotionally. On the other hand, the viewpoint character here is a Dark Eldar, and their idea of a fraternity may be different.
More generally, of course, yes, the "only one in a thousand survives our ultra-rigorous trials" crap is a perfect example of the concept of military training being grossly misunderstood, distorted, and turned into insane bullshit by the ideas of sour-masculinity-gone-toxic.
...Is this a back-reference to that stupid conspiracy theory thing that Our Reviewer got suckered into?
Without actually having read this codex, I can't be sure, but if they're specifically talking about the "Brotherhood of Wardmakers," it is at least conceivable that they're on the level. The guys who make the anti-Chaos deflector shields might legit say "yeah, if we weren't doing our jobs, a lot of bad stuff would have happened."
Also, the bolded sentence is an interesting reflection of IC/OOC authorial choice, I don't exactly know which words to use and I don't have a cohesive thing to say about it, it just caught the eye.
Wellllll, Aeldari are pretty darn meddlesome. Anyone with farseers would be meddlesome, because the temptation to indulge in hilarious temporal shenanigans would be irresistible. As adjectives go, I think it's pretty fair.
I think they're too small to be effective as a secret police force, really. There's not that many of them, and it's a big galaxy. There's multiple overlocking Imperial institutions that serve the function of "secret police," and the Grey Knights are at most the brute squad that gets called in to act as muscle on very rare and specific occasions by the more prevalent Imperial secret police.
But it's not like you'll ever see a Grey Knight infiltrating a rebel secret society or something. That's not their function. They're not the Space Stasi.
Well, if the Vantablack Knights actually do exist in a cosmic horror setting, you'd expect some sealed super-beings to exist, and for many of these super-beings to be potentially hostile to, well, most things that are recognizably a person.
Well, at least this time you're pre-emptively calling yourself out on the tendency to replace canon stuff with lurid conspiracy theory stuff.
Though it also makes just using the name "Kaldor Draigo" kind of pointless, because you're literally just erasing the guy and replacing him with an original character intended to be an evil opposite.
I like it.
After all, we just observed that an entity constructed to be a living weapon (namely, a Space Marine) and then marinated in the nastier parts of the Warp will tend to become violently insane.
Wouldn't a living weapon made from the nastier parts of the Warp be just as insane, if not more so? That's just the same process, only cutting out the middleman.
Hey, lots of good points here, so I think I have a lot I need to clarify. This isn't actually a Custodes situation where I messed up big-time with my weird twists. The deliberate POV here was that Sister Vandire openly hates the Grey Knights and will believe anything about them no matter how absurd if it makes them look bad, Ynathe dislikes the Grey Knights and is willing to buy into bullshit because she's a bit of a conspiracy theorist and way too Eldar-chauvinist for her own good, and that Medicus Viola is actually sympathetic to the Grey Knights.
The introduction to this update is a bit weirdly written, because originally I was going to make the Vantablack Knights and the Platinum Knights, but then as I wrote it I realized that was too simplistic and didn't fit the themes of the fanfic at all. So the introduction very much pushes this idea of the Vantablack Knights, but that's because I tried to edit it into something after and apparently I didn't do a good enough job. There's the Platinum Knights, who are generally good but mostly serve as those who got out of the kitchen because they couldn't stand the heat, and the Grey Knights, who are certainly Black Knights but intended to be less over-the-top villains and more broken warriors.
We often see in the update that Ynathe will doubt any good thing the Grey Knights might be doing, and that's meant to show that Ynathe isn't an objective source. Even the ending is meant to call that out, with Medicus Viola basically telling Ynathe (and the reader) that Ynathe's idea of a Grimdark Imperium is kind of bullshit. Medicus Viola's perspective is meant to be the most accurate, and she's looking at the Grey Knights with pity, rather than hate. The truth is that the Grey Knights are doing their job, and they do serve an important purpose.
They aren't as special or badass as the Codex makes them out to be in Review Canon, but they also don't really work as the Dirlewanger Brigade. The introduction and a few other parts of the update tend to treat them like that, though with the other parts of the update that's more Ynathe and especially Vandire's biases. There was a bit of a jarring shift as I wrote it in my own head.
On the subject of the Sisters of Battle murders, Ynathe is getting the evidence of that from Vandire. I do think it probably did happen, Review Canon, but it wasn't some absurd act of evil. It was a desperate act of deeply delusional, homicidal super-soldiers who weren't thinking rationally at all. In my head, I think of the Grey Knights as people who are in a psychotic episode that lasts their entire adult life and gets worse and worse.
Thank you for the compliment on the take on Chaos. The thing is that they don't keep that grip on reality. To be a Grey Knight in this continuity is basically to be a suicide-soldier. You go out, you do as much work as you can, and then over time your grip on everything gets worse and worse until you can't function anymore.
Oh, and Chaos Marines will come in time, but you're right that if fighting daemons in the warp does this it seems like being an agent of the Chaos Gods (even ones whose worst qualities are more leaking intrusive thoughts than maniacal evil) would really mess you up. I'd also say that being mentally ill or psychotic doesn't necessarily make you violent, even when you're a supersoldier.
Oh, and Ynathe is specifically referring to an unserious, partying fraternity. Remember, her conception of everything is from a Drukhari performer-gladiatrix's perspective. She imagines Space Marine Chapters as being little more than gangs of rich thugs who go out doing crimes while drunk. The Jay Effkay joke is a reference, yeah. I don't know if it was a funny joke, but I found it amusing enough to work in.
As far as Kaldor Draigo goes, I actually really like the idea that he's a Daemon Prince. I tried to keep it ambiguous (up to and including Medicus Viola pointing out how nonsensical it is and how everyone in-story who believes it would be specifically credulous because it is kind of stupid), but on a death-of-the-author level I like the idea.
That said, I encourage most readers to view it as bullshit, because it's like writing a Harry Potter Let's Read where Umbridge is a Weasley.
IC:
Why must we continue to discuss the silliness of the Custodes? So I failed to understand the finer points of some irrelevant human society! What a gargantuan krakking deal we have here! Oh, Ynathe is so silly, not understanding the Imperium! Well, my understanding of this is completely accurate, and in fact Sister Vandire has informed me of all sorts of wholly intentioned and morally culpable crimes on the part of the Grey Knights!
...Ahem.
I do like raunchy satire.
OOC:
Thank you!
IC:
They are very much an interlinked biosphere, yes. Oh, and an eggplant is a delightful Terran food, one that I can only recommend. I believe it comes from chickens. You know someone in the Deathwatch?
IC: Knew, he was my Company Captain during the Badab War. He died during the War, I know there is another Lamenter within the Deathwatch currently but he would probably be unhappy to see one of his brothers turned renegade. His career was spent as he described a continuous act of pest control, trying to blunt the advance of the Tendrils and coax them into choosing either unpopulated worlds or those worlds that they considered write offs -that being worlds in rebellion, alien held worlds, and the like- beyond that he was in way something of a mentor to me I miss him I think.
IC: To be fair the Custodes like their enemies to think of them as ego maniacal god-kings because it's easier to manipulate others that way.You are right about a lot of things(Especially the Grey Knights and Tau) and can see through a lot of lies but sometimes the the truth is that if you're focused on unveiling the truth of a something you never bother to ask other questions like why are they and the Sisters are called the Right Hand and not the Hands or the Sisters being the Left Hand.It is perfectly fine to be wrong and be unsure of yourself sometimes and it's okay to make mistakes but the moment you stop trying to improve yourself is the moment you truly lose the ability and reason to wonder and ask about things.
IC: You would get along with my mother she loves watching Terran political intrigue because of how it lays like some sort of raunchy satire novel that doesn't even know it is(I did not need to know it's possible to make a family lineage shaped like a polyhedron).
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