Triple Triad, then.
Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]
- Thread starter Omicron
- Start date
- Let's Play
Triple Triad, then.
The Doohickey should absolutely be a Final Fantasy weapon. Give it to a mechanist kind of character with an option to gradually upgrade the weapon.
What would his Limit Break look like, though?
- Location
- Singapore
- Pronouns
- Singular They
Pedantically, the term used is "battle series", which could include both shounen battle manga and shounen battle prose (ie light novels), so it could be something like serialized fanzine fiction too.
I mention this because in the Japanese script site, there's a line that's not attributed, but is in the "character thoughts" parentheses, set in the Timber Maniacs dialogue section. The thinker has found an old issue of a "battle series", and notes that they themselves read a lot of battle series.
It makes me wonder if this is Squall thinking it, because it would make an alarming amount of sense if he, in his teenage way, decided that the "cool shounen battle protagonist" personality type in these shounen battle series was the sort of person to emulate.
Other interesting Timber Maniacs bits: one of the unattributed lines in the Japanese script is of someone happily welcoming the "pretty-boy" ("bishounen-kun") on his "inspection tour" of the Timber Maniacs office. I wonder if this is the receptionist, and the English script translates it to "honey".
Also this "inspection tour" is phrased akin to a field trip or study tour (見学), while the English script has it as "We want to take a look around". It sounds like the Timber Maniacs staff assume this is just a bunch of teenage schoolkids checking out the office for future career ideas.
Which makes another Timber Maniacs staff sound even more inappropriate: they refer to themselves as a "person involved in Art" (katakana "art", hence the capitalization), responsible for editing a publication called "Nude Jacket: Pretty Girl Edition". This publication keeps selling out, while the rest of Timber considers it controversial. Still, as this person says, that is Art.
I have to wonder how the English translation handled that.
I'm not sure if the English script clarifies, but based on the Japanese script, this drifter ("traveller" in Japanese, which means the same) came from Dollet, and got stuck in Timber just as the town got locked down for Deling's visit. While this was happening, he got mugged of his money and TT cards by Galbadian soldiers. So he first blames Galbadia for always interfering with his life, then shifts the blame to the Resistance for causing the increased security in Timber due to the kidnap plot. The locals counter that the Galbadians were going to be abusing their authority anyway, so it has nothing to do with the Resistance.
I found this interesting because this implies the Forest Owls' plot to kidnap Deling was well-known enough that this drifter was aware of it; it's more than the little kids play-acting it out, since this drifter is (at the moment) not sympathetic to the Resistance, so he presumably wouldn't be aware of it through Resistance sympathizers. Maybe Galbadia put out a news bulletin that the kidnap plot happened and failed, via propaganda channels? Presumably without mentioning the whole "undead monster" part of the foiling.
Something that might be a little lost in translation is Rinoa's speech patterns. She occasionally draws out her words, albeit not to the degree that Selphie does. If Selphie is the sort of character who would have been posting "glomp" and "^___^" during 90s Internet forums, Rinoa would be the sort to say "Hihi" and "super-cool". So a sort of extroverted teenage girl who's into the current fashions, but not so hyper and exuberant as to make it her archetype.
So here, when Rinoa says "How sad", in Japanese she's actually going "So uncool", in a sort of pouty tone. It fits Rinoa's general speech patterns, but here it just sounds like exactly the sort of tone that would set any professional off.
The Japanese script site had Zell in the party here, and interestingly this line is the same, except using Zell's speech patterns (ie the "ze" ending).
Similarly, when the fourth party member shows up a bit later (Zell in Omicron's playthrough, Selphie in the Japanese site author's playthrough), that line is also in the respective speech patterns: Selphie draws out the last syllable of her sentence, as a cutesy "oh? What's happening?" way.
It's a bit of unexpected care put into the "generic party member line" dialogue.
Minor trivia: the Japanese script has the announcer say "this is not online". I assume the change to "this is not a recording" is due to the usual interpretation of "online" in English as "operating normally". The idea is the same, in that this is a broadcast "on the air" (literally "broadcast on electric(-magnetic) waves"), rather than using the HD cables and the FFVIII version of the Internet.
To be fair, Quistis does have some authority, as senior SeeD. She even has a "please" in the Japanese text (rather than the direct "Get over here right now" in English), implying that it's not an order as such, but rather an urgent request for assistance. Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if there's SeeD regulations about having to give assistance to any other SeeD in distress.
Notably, literally nobody other than Zell has named anyone out loud. Seifer, of all people, continues to observe operational security, addressing Quistis only as "Instructor" ("sensei") and Squall as "Mr Leader" ("hanchou", ie "squad leader"). And Zell as "chicken wuss" ("chicken yarou", as stated before), of course.
Meanwhile, Zell not only confirms Garden's involvement, he also named Rinoa.
I agree that it's frustrating for Zell to be the plot-mandated Information Leak, although I'm still undecided if it's an intentional frustration from the game that Zell's momentary lapse, entirely in-character for him, has led to potential serious consequences.
If it matters, the word used is "shounen" (少年). Which in context does mean "boy", despite the literal definition meaning "young man" (well, "young age", but assumed male). Seifer's denial sounds more like he's picking up on the Sorceress using "shounen" as a belittling term, rather than a neutral descriptor.
In Japanese, Rinoa does say "I'm sure he'll be all right", which might be cope, but could also be interpreted as Rinoa having faith in Seifer's abilities, if not his judgment.
Between the Dollet mission and the Timber TV Station intrusion, Seifer really is being portrayed as the Ultimate Badass when it comes to sheer combat ability, being able to charge head-first into nests of enemies and not only come out unscathed, but send them into retreat. It's just that the game makes sure to remind the player that despite being a combat monster, Seifer is also a disciplinary problem, and that is preventing Seifer from being actually effective in proper missions.
Rinoa draws out the "desu" in her statements about being "an order from their clients", which makes it sound like a sing-song taunt. It sounds like she's still salty about the conversation near the TV station earlier.
It sounds just as sarcastic in Japanese, too. The Japanese script says there were three legends passed down, for each of Strength, Cooking, and Beauty, and Selphie says the "beauty" part is totally "like a legend".
One more item from the Japanese script that I'm interested in:
One of the side dialogue is an unattributed person explaining Timber's train routes. From context, this person is probably a woman.
While explaining the train routes, she mentions an incident where one day she was so engrossed in train-watching that she almost had an accident. Thankfully, she was saved by someone "cool", and from what she can recall, his name is something like "Rewol" (レウォール). However, this Rewol was wearing a Galbadian soldier's uniform, and Galbadia is the enemy country that killed her father. So this woman dramatically considers her infatuation with Rewol as "just like Romeo and Juliet". As in, specifically "Romeo and Juliet", which implies Shakespeare existed in FFVIII.
- Location
- Te Ika-a-Māui
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I suspect this is the item "Girl Next Door", which is rather less obviously porn from the name.
To be fair to Square, I'm pretty sure from FFVII onwards they just plain have enough disk space to always make sure "generic party member dialogue" from your selectable others is at least somewhat personalized. FFVI's problem was iirc one of both dev time and memory available on an SNES cartridge, but now we're on disks. Full games fit on these things with the FMVs taking up 90% of the space, a few extra dialogue pointers to go "Zell/Quistis/Selphie is your extra party member, personalize the line slightly" is easy to fit in there.
...At least it isn't Chrono Cross, with its "whoops we made four billion party members, quick someone make an Accent Generator".
Nachtprophet
Registered Lurker
- Location
- Germany
Another translation issue:
'Sorceress' is the wrong word.
The japanese uses 魔女 (majo) which is translated as 'witch' in basically any other work or context.
In fact, the phrase 'fithos lusec wecos vinosec' that is being repeated in the opening is an anagram of 'love' and 'succession of witches' indicating that 'witch' was the intended word in English.
This was followed in basically all other languages: German uses 'Hexe', Italian 'Strega', Spanish 'Bruja'. French seems to be another outlier, apparently they used 'necromancienne'? I'm guessing because the most common word for witch in French would be 'sorcière' which, again, would be closer to sorceress...
Now obviously both sorceress and witch refer to female magic users. However witch definitely evokes very distinct and more sinister connotations.
'Sorceress' is the wrong word.
The japanese uses 魔女 (majo) which is translated as 'witch' in basically any other work or context.
In fact, the phrase 'fithos lusec wecos vinosec' that is being repeated in the opening is an anagram of 'love' and 'succession of witches' indicating that 'witch' was the intended word in English.
This was followed in basically all other languages: German uses 'Hexe', Italian 'Strega', Spanish 'Bruja'. French seems to be another outlier, apparently they used 'necromancienne'? I'm guessing because the most common word for witch in French would be 'sorcière' which, again, would be closer to sorceress...
Now obviously both sorceress and witch refer to female magic users. However witch definitely evokes very distinct and more sinister connotations.
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Kadmus
Dragon's teeth are surprisingly hard to sow
- Location
- Devon
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ah yes, the most important part of any FFVIII astronomer's job: being able to filter out the moon screaming 'I WILL NEVER LET YOU FORGET ABOUT ME' and 'BRING ME BACK THERE I AM ALIVE HERE' down at you 24/7. Wonder if just looking up at the moon means you see it blinking down Morse code flashes that say the same thing?
It's a surprisingly creepy bit, honestly; I'm curious if the test on the screen is in kanji/katakana/whatever in the Japanese version, or if it was always in English? Having had a quick check, it is in English in the Japanese version, apparently, but you can interact with it in the Japanese version to get a textbox with the words transcribed, though they're all one word in wEIrdTeXt and still in English.
It's a surprisingly creepy bit, honestly; I'm curious if the test on the screen is in kanji/katakana/whatever in the Japanese version, or if it was always in English? Having had a quick check, it is in English in the Japanese version, apparently, but you can interact with it in the Japanese version to get a textbox with the words transcribed, though they're all one word in wEIrdTeXt and still in English.
How do the german joke goes? "A nazi is somebody else's grandfather"?
You think they had to take the train like our group? Like, when they were aboard, did they stopped the chase, and sat next to each other in silence 'till the doors opened? Or the chase continued all over the train, probably to the sound of yakety sax?
I'm hoping you're joking, but - please don't sound like a fascist.
Thank you.
Can't dom without consent.
ganonso
Compulsive Quest Starter
- Location
- PACA France
French problem is we have fewer general words for spellcasters. We have Magicien(ne) who generally translates wizard, Mage et Sorcier(e) who translates Witch and sometimes Warlock.
Sorcerer in D&D is translated as Ensorceleur who would translates to Bespeller/Bewitcher. Warlock got translated in 5th as Sorcier then Occultist, and in WOW as Démoniste
So I can see the French translation team drawing a blank. Necromancer is just bad though. If they had Sorceress in mind, they may have wanted to avoid Sorcière due to the connotations. Also don't know in the Anglo word, but sorcière in French is generally used for ugly old hags with a completely different aesthetic than this game's Sorceresses.
Nachtprophet
Registered Lurker
- Location
- Germany
Ah, then sorcière would be the most fitting, thats the kind of witch that majo und the other european translations usually represent.
"SUCCESSION OF WITCHES" is exactly what I'd name my Final Fantasy Black Metal cover band, if I had one.
Also, I'm really surprised at how aggressively quirky these characters are becoming. Like Selphie and Laguna are at FF5 levels of wacky.
Also, I'm really surprised at how aggressively quirky these characters are becoming. Like Selphie and Laguna are at FF5 levels of wacky.
Nachtprophet
Registered Lurker
- Location
- Germany
It's also the name of the creepy musical theme that plays in the scene with the sorceress, also featuring the FITHOS LUSEC WECOS VINOSEC line.
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
'How do you pair Quistis and Riona with Tifa and Aerith?'– the greatest thread in the history of forums, locked by a moderator after 12,239 pages of heated debate,
cB557
voOOP
I honestly had to stop and think about that, but given that I haven't played 8 I just went with "Well Rinoa just seems like it's gonna get revealed that she has some magic thing going on with her, and that's kinda like Aerith"
What, no.
Rinoa's associated with canids, is a member of a resistance movement where central missions involve trains, and is the off-gender element in a love triangle.
She's clearly Cloud.
ZerbanDaGreat
Daemon Noble of D E M O G R A P H I C S
- Pronouns
- They/them
Bro I invite you to stay in your lane, I will joke about the vernacular of hoeless freaks who would call me slurs all I please.
They call me slurs too, which is why I'm wary hearing this kinda speech, 'cause I don't know you.
But hey - as long you know it's fascist rhetoric, and not buying into it? mostly good.
...'cept for the jokes themself, which could use a tune-up.
Kuja
I'M A SQUIIIID
- Location
- AZ
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's easy. Most Final Fantasy parties follow a simple formula for their female PCs. The list to date-
Coolgirl: Faris/Terra/Aeris/Quistis (prototype: adult Rydia)
Wifegirl: Lenna/Celes/Tifa/Rinoa (prototype: Rosa)
Genkigirl: Krile/Relm/Yuffie/Selphie (prototype: child Rydia/Porom)
Coolgirl: High badass rating, the one that makes you say "she's so cool" when you meet her. Probably has a traumatic backstory and/or softer side.
Wifegirl: Primarily focused on her kindness and wish to save her loved ones. Capable party member but will need rescuing at some point.
Genkigirl: Energetic loudmouth, will tell it like it is. Usually younger than the others, often covering for an insecurity.
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- Location
- USA
I think the Terra-Celes and Aerith-Tifa dynamic was played with a bit by Squaresoft. The flanderization of Aerith in Advent Children and the Compilation turned her into a Wifegirl while Tifa's Coolgirl aspects were played up. Terra and Celes were presented as Wifegirl and Coolgirl, respectively, when they were first introduced; I think Terra actually remains Wifegirl throughout even as Celes begins defrosting from her Coolgirl characteristics.
Egleris
Vagrant Dragon
- Location
- Italy
Yeah, in the Italian translation of FFVIII Sorceress is indeed "Strega", which is generally used to translate "Witch". Of course, the male form of "Witch" in Italian is "Stregone", which is always the translation for "Sorcerer"; we don't have separate terms for the two, and generally Italian has very few words for magic users, as "Wizard", "Magician" and "Mage" would all be translated as "Mago", which doesn't have a female form (you would just use "Strega", so, "Witch"), and "Spell" would be translated as either "Magia", which is actually the translation for "Magic", or "Incantesimo", which is actually the translation for Enchantment - there isn't a specific word for it. The same goes for Warlock, which generally is just left in English when people use it.
So, "Sorceress" and "Witch" are both translatable as "Strega", which really is the only available word in Italian for a female magic user. As a word, it has the connotations of both "Sorceress" and "Witch" as a result of cultural osmosis from foreign works, even if the old meaning of the word is closer to "Witch" then any of the other forms. Which all in all makes it the perfect pick for a translation of FFVIII, which is using the "Witch" meaning but the "Sorceress" visuals, if that makes sense.
Speaking of the Italian translation, the Timber sequence does have a few interesting details to discuss.
- The confrontation at the door with the Galbadian soldiers does go along similar lines, although in Italian it's less explicit about the death threats due to word choice.
- Interestingly, the way the author in the Timber Maniacs offices presents his work is subtle enough that most people would miss the pornographic implication. The title of his album of photos is "the jacket over the skin", but Italian uses the same word for both "skin" and "leather", so he could just be talking about leather jackets; then he adds that the album was published by "Venus editions", which is another subtle thing, since Venus is obviously the love goddess but he could also just be referring to the planet, as an Italian publishing house in the '90s was called Urania, after the planet Uranus. And his next sentence says "cards are so popular today, maybe we could sell cards with our photos", which again you'd only realize he's talking about using pinup photos as the image for cards if you've already understood what he's talking about, which the Italian translation provides no hints at all about. It's a very interesting example of careful translation acting as subtle censorship.
- According to the chief of the Timber Maniac office, the things that sells right now are weapon magazines and practical manuals about warfare. He also mentions, on the third of his dialogue options, that he went into journalism to encourage peace. Interestingly, Squall has slightly different thoughts with each of the different questions he asks, while the old man always keep saying similar things. And, if Squall picks the fourth dialogue option when asked "what you want to talk about", which is "nothing", the chief said "a pity, I like talking with youngsters", when each of the other one has him complaining about young people and each end with "don't waste your time, kids!". It's funny, but also patronizing enough that you can see why Squall is annoyed, in a way.
- The girl at the station, which tells you which train to take to go where, does have the story about being saved by the Galbadian soldier, although, in something that Kingdom Hearts makes very amusing retroactively, the soldier's name is Leon. I believe this is a translation change? And she does mentions "Romeo and Juliet" by name in the Italian translation as well.
- The "drifter" is also translated as "traveler" instead in Italian; I'm not sure, but I think that drifter has a more negative connotation?
- The giant TV is projecting the exact same "interference" message, written in English, so to an Italian reader the entire screen is just a jumble of meaningless letters; there's no dialogue box with a translated version of the message either, only the screen.
- When she starts her discussion with Squall and Selphie about the situation, Rinoa doesn't open with "how sad", but rather "pathetic", and then after parroting back at them the "it's your duty" line, she adds a "that's so very convenient for you!" of her own, making it clearer that what annoys her about the attitude is the refusal to make a stand - very obviously something she, a rebel leader, is passionate about. Squall then, as in the English version, proceeds to make his stand about their lack of professionalism with the bluntness that is his trademark.
Afterwards, when Selphie tells him "you were a bit harsh", the options are actually more clearly "apologize" or "don't apologize", which make it clear that staying silent here would be bad, whereas the English "guess I'll follow up" vs "I'll leave it at that" makes it more ambiguous; I could easily see myself reading "I'll follow up" as "I'll keep tearing into her" and "I'll leave it at that" as "let's not pile on more criticism". This is another of those instances where I feel the English translation makes it harder for the players to understand the psychology of the people involved, and so another layer contributing to many players missing some of the points FFVIII is trying to make about its characters.
- During Deling's speech, he is not identified as "lifelong President", just President, which is an interesting wrinkle in translation; on the other hand, the presenter calls him "the light of the morning", which... well, that's certainly not any way I've seen a politician introduced before.
- The whole sorceress introduction sequence plays out exactly as it did in the English version, although at the end, Rinoa says "I'm sure Seifer will be fine!", which apparently is more in line with the original Japanese text, whereas in English she asks "will he be fine...?" Basically playing up her confidence that he'll make it against her worry that he might not make it. It's an interesting choice in terms of emphasis.
- In the conversation in the Forest Fox house (which... they're hiding active rebels, so they are sort-of doing resistance work? in a way?), the specific words aren't exactly the same, but overall the conversation follows along the same lines of Squall opining that Seifer is always serious and they're likely to have killed him, Rinoa insisting she believes/hope that he'll survive, Squall trying to be cool by saying that having hope just makes wounds hurt more, but Rinoa is free to believe whatever she wants, and Rinoa calling him out as mean-spirited, for which he apologizes.
- And Watts' answer if Squall tells him to take care is "don't worry, I'll be as good as a SeeD", which might not be as overconfident as the English version, but is overconfident in a completely different sort of way, since I have my doubts that Watts is as good as a SeeD.
And that's it for this update! Of note, while the game wants you to go to the station at this point, it's still possible to head to the hotel to save and stuff.
Also, I had something I wanted to comment on:
So, this is the first time that FFVIII completely fell on its face because of it, but this was actually to be expected when we consider the way FFVIII is structured.
Basically, while there is a (actually good!) plot here, and certainly a very obvious character development trajectory that goes through the game, FFVIII is the first game which is structured around the idea of bringing to life certain powerful set-pieces that the developers had in mind, and it thus is a string of connective tissue leading from "big event" to "big event".
This is actually a real problem in AAA games now, with the big showstopping FMV pre-rendered long before the game is completed and thus the game being forced to lead to them even when it doesn't make sense; FFVIII is a precursor of this type of games, so the problem isn't nearly as pronounced here, but it's very clearly visible.
So far, we had the opening cinematic; it's no doubt one of the best opening in a Final Fantasy game that we've seen so far, but it does forces the game to start with the immediate consequences of the Squall vs Seifer duel, which forces the game to have a slower opening. This sort of works in FFVIII favor, in that it allows the setting to be introduced, but the lack of action and the delay of actual gameplay at the beginning was something that was pointed out as a bit of a weakness compared to FFVII throwing you into the action right from the start.
The second big setpiece is the Seed Exam in Dollet; so, we need to get from the Opening to the SeeD Exam, and the game does this by adding a small tutorial mission in the Fire Cavern to let the player learn the mechanics, as well as letting the player decide their pace - you can spend as much time as you want preparing for the exam. The exam sequence itself, as mentioned, is a more polished version of what was FFVIII demo, so it runs smooth and is incredibly iconic, as well as having a lot of different option, really pushing the interactivity.
The third setpiece is the Moonwaltz and meeting with Rinoa; the game cleverly doesn't try to space this out, instead just gives the player a chance to explore outside the garden with Zell and Selphie for a bit as a tiny breather and then pushes the player straight into this sequence, making it the cap to the SeeD Exam. It works well in that it keeps the game going smoothly, even if it means that the second meeting with Mistery Girl #1 is rushed as a result - it would have made more sense to have that meeting happen first, to avoid creating the confusion between her and Rinoa, but that would have made it nearly impossible to find a place for the Moonwaltz scene, so they had to run things that way.
Next is the first Laguna Dream, so the game includes a forced travel route the group has to take, during which they can fall asleep and the dream can be implemented very easily.
The fifth setpiece is, obviously, the train heist; the entire arrival to Timber, the fact that Timber is a city with multiple train stations, the Owls being somewhat crazy and somewhat silly, all of this is in favor of letting the player experience the train heist sequence at maximum coolness, and it works. It's another of the most iconic part of the game, and it really works well as a practical demonstration of how the SeeD work as contract mercenaries, carrying out the crazy plans of people who would not be able to handle it on their own.
And then we have the sixth setpiece that is the Sorceress introduction, and here the game stumbles; the Timber section is incredibly short, actions are rushed, things make little sense and it's difficult to stomach the series of events, because they're all built around the one key thing that needs to happen - the Sorceress absconds with Seifer - and the place where it has to happen - a TV station that justified the whole impetus behind the Galbadian attack to Dollet during the SeeD exam - and have to find a way to make it all work together. They did try to make things work, and the character work with the Rinoa vs Squall conversation is great, but the coherence of the plot suffers because they couldn't deviate too much from the planned setpiece, so things need to bend around it (Seifer's transcontinental escape, the Galbadian guards being both too numerous for the SeeD to assault but easily dispatched by Seifer so he can meet the Sorceress first, etc.), and the story suffers as a result.
Now, I think that FFVIII does an excellent job of stringing its setpieces together and only rarely falters, but when it does, the artificial nature of the events is almost invariably a result of trying to get to a certain setpiece and having to work around its predetermined elements.
Of course, this is ultimately my opinion - maybe I'm wrong, and other people can find a different way to explain why as well made a game as FFVIII occasionally has these illogical sequences in it? I'm always happy to read other people's opinions about this sort of thing.
EDIT: also, I double checked the codex and, indeed, the explanation on Sorceresses is in there now, after meeting the Sorceress and before leaving Timber. It's on the same page that has the information about monsters.
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- Pronouns
- Him/He
It's a bit of a hand-wave, but Seifer is kinda actually supposed to be trained on this exact sort of thing (bulldozing through stuff and escaping), and is noted as one of the best. I imagine that no one actually though Seifer would try and escape and run off to timber, even Quistis points out she didn't take him seriously, and she was probably the one who heard it directly. Security was probably lax, and assumed that since Seifer did want to be a SeeD he would submit to what sounds like being grounded for a week or something.
I'm sure if FF8 got a remake akin to FF7 there would be a several hour interlude of either playing as Seifer breaking out of the garden and stealing a transport (or showing some savvy and sneaking aboard something), or Quistis on his trail only managing to catch up with the resources of the garden just before the confrontation. (Something like 'Quistis thinks Seifer is inside the city, but doesn't know where/why, until she hears of the president being at the TV station and is able to follow Seifer's trail of destruction.')
As for the 'too many guards' and 'easily bypassed guards' I just read that as Rinoa not knowing what SeeDs are actually capable of, and the SeeDs not giving a shit about her mission. Her entire crew is running on gut vibes and instincts at this point, and the SeeDs themselves aren't invested in their success.
The SeeDs probably do think they could bust in and tear through the guard, probably cause the president to escape and flee. But they're not going to help with the planning, or challenging Rinoa's assumptions, instead reminding her that they follow her orders.
Squall explicitly calls her out for not being able to make a call without their imput, and Watts is the one that says 'there's too many guards' after not being with the group. This entire section is supposed to make us doubt or question what kinda losers the SeeDs are stuck with, so if they actually are capable of assessing how many guards is 'too many' is in question.
Rinoa herself recognizes that the SeeD aren't actually members of the team, but are weapons to be pointed at things she wants fucked up, they're not on board with anything they're doing and their supposed expertise does not apply to planning operations.
- Pronouns
- She/They
That was my read on that too. SeeD are professional soldiers, some of the best of the best, and hotheaded teenagers at that. They probably believe that they could storm in there, take the president, hold position long enough for Rinoa to give her address, and then make a fighting retreat all the way back to Balamb Garden if need be, but they have no actual investment in the outcome of the mission - besides Timber being liberated enough for them to be free of their contract, but they probably don't believe one television address being enough to achieve that for the resistance, so they're not going to push it. And beyond that, they just don't really care for the people who hired them. If they can't do something as simple as make the call to start an operation, they have no desire to make the Timber Owl's jobs easier.
Honestly I bet they do have some training in planning out operations, they just don't want to. If Rinoa and co. assume they're just dumb muscle, that's on her for not knowing the value of who she hired, and they don't want to make her job easier.