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Kingdom of God: A Quest of Holy Revolution

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Deadly Snark said:
Morsi, the White Gold, and the Ursal Princes couldnt have mustered and moved that fast if they did this at the literal last minute. Especially with Sword-Altar having cut the communication lines as their first move. This seems to have all happened in one day or close enough. Sants' armies were on the move at around the same time as the Originators.
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The Usral princes were gathered for a tournament as per newscript and rumours, though obviously everyone was preparing for something as Sarbadgar was.

Also, to add to @Horologer's point, if the Patriarch announced sword-altar's coup ahead of time they could construe it as a power grab. Letting them move first exposed them far more.
 
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Honestly, on the subject of the Patriarch? I'm not going to believe he's even alive until multiple HaKhofshim characters see him with their own two eyeballs. We could still easily be in Weekend at Santsarran's and living under a conspiracy led by Kenturah. Not that I mind that in the out-of-character abstract, but I don't trust extremely important men conveniently disappearing out of a closed room.

Unless Cetash cares to repeat "Patriarch Santsarran is alive" in Red, of course.

EDIT: That funny looks suspiciously like a cackle, in this context.
 
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zeb did not like exile. was not to his taste.

[X] Abolish Penitence and free millions from bondage! [Hard].
 
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fuck it
[X] Abolish Oblate Serfdom! [Hard. Warning: Prepare for unforeseen consequences].
 
While I'm as opposed to oblate serfdom as anyone, I really strongly urge the people voting to abolish it right now not to do so. There isn't enough political consensus or will to actually get it done, and sending the entire south into a state of bloody insurrection will probably not be great for the harvest or the general food situation. We should end serfdom when we're in a position to properly enforce that policy, rather than expose the entire oblate serf population to active reprisals and repression without any chance of us actually lifting a finger to help them. Abolishing penitence is much more doable and will still emancipate millions from the yoke of servitude.
 
Rule 3: Be Civil
etranger01 said:
While I'm as opposed to oblate serfdom as anyone, I really strongly urge the people voting to abolish it right now not to do so. There isn't enough political consensus or will to actually get it done, and sending the entire south into a state of bloody insurrection will probably not be great for the harvest or the general food situation. We should end serfdom when we're in a position to properly enforce that policy, rather than expose the entire oblate serf population to active reprisals and repression without any chance of us actually lifting a finger to help them. Abolishing penitence is much more doable and will still emancipate millions from the yoke of servitude.
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who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."
 
etranger01 said:
While I'm as opposed to oblate serfdom as anyone, I really strongly urge the people voting to abolish it right now not to do so. There isn't enough political consensus or will to actually get it done, and sending the entire south into a state of bloody insurrection will probably not be great for the harvest or the general food situation. We should end serfdom when we're in a position to properly enforce that policy, rather than expose the entire oblate serf population to active reprisals and repression without any chance of us actually lifting a finger to help them. Abolishing penitence is much more doable and will still emancipate millions from the yoke of servitude.
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Yes. Doing it half-baked just leaves the serfs in a position not unlike the African American population in the South post-Civil War, where they wound up discriminated against so badly the effects echoed for a century after the fact.

And sure, Giving freedom right now would be a start, but remember the Mare, and the other two Eyes.
It's be no good for Vaspukan to do away with Slavery just for the Mare to swing in and reinstate it under whatever paradigm they use. Unlike America, there's at least one other Eye on us.
 
Something to keep in mind is that the Mare has admirals lusting for Danaan, and bases in the south from Chavay and Kandi. If we threaten the south too hard with something like the abolition of Oblate Serfdom, we may very well see the Grand Mare intervene in a potential civil war. We know Danaan is a more recent conquest, and I don't think it's unlikely we could see the southern hierocracy and slaver aristocracy call in the Mare in exchange for Danaan.

Shard of Victory said:
who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."
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Please refrain from doing this. Thank you.
etranger01 said:
This is incredibly offensive on a personal level and I'm going to ask you just once to delete it before I call in the mods.
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In the future, please refrain from saying something like this. Do not use the intervention of the mods as a threat. Thank you.
 
Some things to consider:

1. These proposals have no plans for compensation or adaptation attached.
2. These proposals have to be approved by the Patriarch.
3. You do not have enough info on the south to assess the political mood there.
4. The Autocephalate of Hayabiru is pro serfdom.
5. The city of Vadashta is generally anti-serfdom.
 
Cetashwayo said:
Some things to consider:

1. These proposals have no plans for compensation or adaptation attached.
2. These proposals have to be approved by the Patriarch.
3. You do not have enough info on the south to assess the political mood there.
4. The Autocephalate of Hayabiru is pro serfdom.
5. The city of Vadashta is generally anti-serfdom.
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So, a super ambitious new constitution that is going to be watered down and mired by years of delay in practice?

And of course it is unclear what Patriarch is going to stand for. Maybe he will try to kill Sanhendron too, and that was why he sent his dudes. Provoking a coup to force enemies to reveal their hand is a fascinating move, and he was somewhat noncommittal in goals before.
I am not saying Nicholas 2, of course, but we may yet have to stab the guy too.
 
One thing to consider: we seem to be on track to revoke the Threefold Tithe but not the High Priestly tax exemption. I would imagine that would not do very good things to Vaspukaran's financial situation, which is already super bad.
So while it would be absolutely amazing to get the Threefold Tithe abolished, I do think some votes should be diverted toward removing the tax exemption too.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Deadly Snark on May 16, 2022 at 11:38 AM, finished with 122 posts and 63 votes.
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Okay, so I agree with people. We need more votes and-or switch more votes to

-Taxes on High Priests
-Witches
-Penitents
-City Government
-Schismatics Public Life.

[X] Strip the tax privileges of the High Priesthood! [Medium].

I also do agree that while Serfdom is the most radical thing, Millions of fucking Penitents isnt chump change either. Penitents are basically slaves as well. So if we get more votes on that, even as just a political move, it'd be pretty strong and probably cause less issues than Oblate Serfdom.

I wouldnt say no to the Customs well as well, because that shit makes me puke blood.
 
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[x] Strip the tax privileges of the High Priesthood! [Medium].
 
There are 14 million penitents as of the last census concentrated in the north, west and center around Lake Hamgad. There are 42 million serfs in the south. This is from a 10 year old census which is undercounting.
 
Part of the reason I am not sure we should vote for Witches, etc, is because other sects will push their own reforms.
We can likely consult the essays they published to see what will they want now. Iirc Witches were covered by one of them.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Part of the reason I am not sure we should vote for Witches, etc, is because other sects will push their own reforms.
We can likely consult the essays they published to see what will they want now. Iirc Witches were covered by one of them.
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Difficulty is also measured by how many people are pushing for it from other sects. The last set are issues very dear especially to Pugilists hence why they are harder to push as other sects are less focused on them.
 
Basically its a mob, and difficulty is measured by how many people in the mob will shout with you. And with Ma'on getting wrecked in the defense of the Western Navel, we are the prime voice of the Pugilists.
 
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