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Kingdom of God: A Quest of Holy Revolution

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[X] Elder support and daycare, to support the young and old of the sect and pave a way for the world to come [Institution Added: Home of Mitzvat, which will increase fervor by reinforcing the sect's commitment to its past and future].

"It is already clear that I will lose this vote. No matter! I have little fear of losing an argument; these cut knuckles and blackened eyes will attest to that! Besides, I've already spent so many words on the importance of childcare. Failing to vote for it now, I would show myself a natural fool!"

[X] On the Rites of Women, and our state of bondage [Create new Tier I doctrine].

"I hear your arguments, friends! Yes, we have a unique insight into the Jurors, one most valuable! But we have been granted a universal insight too, and shame upon our heads if we neglect the toils and pains of God's daughters! Disrespected when they perform the labors shared with men, entirely disregarded when they perform the works that are shared not - invisible oxen who fill even the greatest of barns!"

[X] The Carnival of Pillars. At the Park of the Pillars, BOTH PARENTS AND CHILDREN WELCOME, a delightful carnival to RAISE THE SPIRIT and EASE THE SOUL hosted by the Elder Tessel Tori High Priestess and Abbess Superior of the Order Marina. FOOD AND GAMES FOR ALL, PUPPET SHOWS and a MENAGERIE OF BEASTS! Admission free for all souls!

"I know, I know, it does not sound like me. Delights? Puppet shows? God, forgive your creations for the lust of their eyes - the children would love to go, and I will not deny them their curiosity. It is better to sin, reflect, and overcome than to wall up your desires in darkness."

[X] Join the Schismatic marches, and show solidarity with other radicals.

"Pfah! A Confessor calls, and Zebadee answers? Do not worry friends, I do not trust this Nasir - but he may make a powerful ally. And I suspect we have more to offer the other sects (as a friend within the Navel) than we can give our fellow Pugilists."

Zeb returns to his seat, his sudden and somewhat unexpected egalitarianism making a minor stir. A joke is whispered about him 'transforming into a housewife', which he gracefully chooses not to hear.
 
[X] A Printing Press Covenant, to spread the word of God far and wide beyond the boundaries of the temple [Institution Added: Black Sheep Covenant, which will allow far more rapid spread and outreach of the sect].
[X] On Extinguishment, and the Potentiality of Juror Liberation [Advance Doctrine to Tier II].
[X] The Carnival of Pillars. At the Park of the Pillars, BOTH PARENTS AND CHILDREN WELCOME, a delightful carnival to RAISE THE SPIRIT and EASE THE SOUL hosted by the Elder Tessel Tori High Priestess and Abbess Superior of the Order Marina. FOOD AND GAMES FOR ALL, PUPPET SHOWS and a MENAGERIE OF BEASTS! Admission free for all souls!
[X] Join the Pugilist marches, and march in religious unity with your own schism.
 
[X] A Printing Press Covenant, to spread the word of God far and wide beyond the boundaries of the temple [Institution Added: Black Sheep Covenant, which will allow far more rapid spread and outreach of the sect].
[X] On the Rites of Women, and our state of bondage [Create new Tier I doctrine].
[X] The Carnival of Pillars. At the Park of the Pillars, BOTH PARENTS AND CHILDREN WELCOME, a delightful carnival to RAISE THE SPIRIT and EASE THE SOUL hosted by the Elder Tessel Tori High Priestess and Abbess Superior of the Order Marina. FOOD AND GAMES FOR ALL, PUPPET SHOWS and a MENAGERIE OF BEASTS! Admission free for all souls!
[X] Join the Pugilist marches, and march in religious unity with your own schism.

As much as I would like to start a daycare, we do need more growth ._.
 
[X] A Printing Press Covenant, to spread the word of God far and wide beyond the boundaries of the temple [Institution Added: Black Sheep Covenant, which will allow far more rapid spread and outreach of the sect].
- We don't need more discipline or Fervor right now since we have a lot of that but we do need to spread our message out to people faster.

[X] On Extinguishment, and the Potentiality of Juror Liberation [Advance Doctrine to Tier II].
- I want to advance this to tier 2 doctrine and see what it gives us instead of getting another tier 1 doctrine.

[X] Grand Parade. At Karogen Academy, observe the most HOLY parade of the White-Gold and Pale Horse Standard, hosted by the DASHING Elder and Komandir Akabar Morsi! HUSBANDS BEWARE! MARCHING BAND, POLO, and THE MOST GRAND CANNON-BLASTS IN ALL OF VASPUKARAN! Come and be deafened, or save your ears and lose your SOUL!
- picked this one cause if we advance to a tier 2 doctrine in Juror Liberation perhaps then going to the Parade would synergize with that or something along the lines.

[X] Join the Pugilist marches, and march in religious unity with your own schism.
- And here let's join our fellows in the march here.

Lets capture the Juror demographic for now
 
[X] A Printing Press Covenant, to spread the word of God far and wide beyond the boundaries of the temple [Institution Added: Black Sheep Covenant, which will allow far more rapid spread and outreach of the sect].
[X] On the Rites of Women, and our state of bondage [Create new Tier I doctrine].
[X] Join the Schismatic marches, and show solidarity with other radicals.
[X] The Serenaphim Exhibit. At Yatoni Temple, ONE DAY ONLY, COME and SEE the most spectacular fossilized remnants of the lizardly TYRANT ANGELS of yesteryear, found with the greatest advances in natural theology and fieldwork, with special words by Elder Kardon Hadi of the Low Priest Chamber! THESE ARE THE BONES HIDDEN BY GOD!
 
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[X] A Printing Press Covenant, to spread the word of God far and wide beyond the boundaries of the temple [Institution Added: Black Sheep Covenant, which will allow far more rapid spread and outreach of the sect].
[X] On Extinguishment, and the Potentiality of Juror Liberation [Advance Doctrine to Tier II].
[X] The Carnival of Pillars. At the Park of the Pillars, BOTH PARENTS AND CHILDREN WELCOME, a delightful carnival to RAISE THE SPIRIT and EASE THE SOUL hosted by the Elder Tessel Tori High Priestess and Abbess Superior of the Order Marina. FOOD AND GAMES FOR ALL, PUPPET SHOWS and a MENAGERIE OF BEASTS! Admission free for all souls!
[X] Join the Pugilist marches, and march in religious unity with your own schism.
 
[X] A Printing Press Covenant, to spread the word of God far and wide beyond the boundaries of the temple [Institution Added: Black Sheep Covenant, which will allow far more rapid spread and outreach of the sect].
[X] On the Rites of Women, and our state of bondage [Create new Tier I doctrine].
[X] The Serenaphim Exhibit. At Yatoni Temple, ONE DAY ONLY, COME and SEE the most spectacular fossilized remnants of the lizardly TYRANT ANGELS of yesteryear, found with the greatest advances in natural theology and fieldwork, with special words by Elder Kardon Hadi of the Low Priest Chamber! THESE ARE THE BONES HIDDEN BY GOD!
[X] Join the Pugilist marches, and march in religious unity with your own schism.

Actually let me make a long-form post on why right now, we need to get the Doctrine for Women's Rights up ASAP.

The doctrine of Pugilism is the Populist freedom of the common people. Their freedom from the chains that hold them. In Marxist terms, the end goal of Pugilism is the forge a common class consciousness. Uniting all the lower and lower middle-class together into a singular force led by a vanguard that can force change upon the establishment.

Yet from that logic, the weakness that has hobbled Pugilism can also be found. Amalism, Confessionism, and Iconoclasm builds up grand idea on ideology and faith, from which they attract people from all classes into the ideal they bring. The glory of gods or grand freedoms. This gives them universal appeal in both the elite and lower classes.

Pugilism by contrast has to start from the grassroots. It has to be down in the mud to raise others up with it. It cannot stand on a shining hill and guide others up as the other schisms can. Pugilism needs the common masses of the proletariat.

And Vasp Society over the centuries since the 1st Sanhedron has been designed, almost as if intentionally to cripple Pugilism, to prevent such a common class consciousness from emerging. A universal cry for freedom and revolution cannot happen under Vaspukaran's effective caste system, where women, soldiers, urban folks and peasants are deliberately divided into separate divisions, and each chamber of elites has more power by themselves than all of those components parts of the masses combined.

Pugilism preached liberation of the peasants and Mouflons. But why would women, whose lots in the villages were never that good anyways care? Why would soldiers whose holy duty is to protect the state care? Why would Urban folks who look down on the rural population as ungrateful really care? Modern Pugilism can only thrive and succeed if it breaks those artificial barriers and creates within this society a common class consciousness.

We'd already made good progress on that with Extinguishing. Targetting the lower-class Jurors and making them realize that they have far more in common with the urban and rural poor than they do with their so-called "Brethren" who live up high while they languish in the mud. We have had fantastic success on this so far with Akov and the Scourge of God Banner. That's very good. But a revolution cannot succeed just by keeping our toes in the pond we are finding success in, mass appeal and outreach are necessary. Even more so for us. If we dont branch out, we will simply be a weird group of Juror Pugilist who fights for the liberation of the Juror class, and we wouldn't have the mass appeal necessary to motivate other sections of the populace. And the Scourge of God cannot convert or compel them to act with simply guns.

We need to work on the Universal Common Class interest. So we need to reach out to the women now. While I would prefer Debt or Tithe personally. Reaching out to the Women for their rites is still very effective. Because it reaches out to half of the population who find themselves underrepresented. While eventually, you'll see class divisions returns, in these early days. All Women share the same interest of breaking their chains. So by reaching out now we'd gain the attention of women from rural and urban regions, we'd get into contact with the wives of professionals, jurors and elites.

For one that's funding.

But more importantly, if you combine that with our effort with the Jurors. Then our sect truly becomes one of the few arguing for universal liberation. Because I guarantee you. No other Sect is likely to have our specific combination of rural pop and mouflon populism, support for poor Juror rights and honor, and outcry for women's rites. The synergistic effect means our doctrine and manifesto instantly become so much stronger, sitting on three pillars that supports each other into a foundation that we can confidently argue, debate and present to anyone.
 
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[X] A Printing Press Covenant, to spread the word of God far and wide beyond the boundaries of the temple [Institution Added: Black Sheep Covenant, which will allow far more rapid spread and outreach of the sect].

[X] On Extinguishment, and the Potentiality of Juror Liberation [Advance Doctrine to Tier II].

[X] The Carnival of Pillars. At the Park of the Pillars, BOTH PARENTS AND CHILDREN WELCOME, a delightful carnival to RAISE THE SPIRIT and EASE THE SOUL hosted by the Elder Tessel Tori High Priestess and Abbess Superior of the Order Marina. FOOD AND GAMES FOR ALL, PUPPET SHOWS and a MENAGERIE OF BEASTS! Admission free for all souls!

[X] Join the Popular marches, and be among the broad sweep of the people.

I think the popular marches will be the best place to reach out to any dissatisfied Jurors.

Shard of Victory said:
Really people? Really? Wildest shit.
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Eh, it seems possible to tease out a sane doctrine out of that that will include all three parts. Something like "With the world closer to heaven on earth and a sufficiently holy soul like that Amalgast, It is possible for a soul to leave a part of them behind like whole soul will be once the world is in proper order, but as the flood was the work of God perverted by the evil of Man, so is the work of a fragment Amalgast perverted by the evil of the system and (some of) the earthly Patriarchs".

Admittedly, it would be easier without a unique feat of transmigration. What is the Iconoclast's doctrine on the event beyond the "a pox on both your houses", anyway?
 
agumentic said:
Admittedly, it would be easier without a unique feat of transmigration. What is the Iconoclast's doctrine on the event beyond the "a pox on both your houses", anyway?
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Traditional Iconoclasm rejects the very personalism inherent in the debate around who and how the Patriarch should be chosen and instead argues that the Patriarch is a far less important figure as a leader than as a spiritual conduit for God chosen by the priesthood. It dislikes strong sacral authority vested in a single person and so opposes both sides.
 
[X] A Printing Press Covenant, to spread the word of God far and wide beyond the boundaries of the temple [Institution Added: Black Sheep Covenant, which will allow far more rapid spread and outreach of the sect].
[X] On the Rites of Women, and our state of bondage [Create new Tier I doctrine].
[X] The Serenaphim Exhibit. At Yatoni Temple, ONE DAY ONLY, COME and SEE the most spectacular fossilized remnants of the lizardly TYRANT ANGELS of yesteryear, found with the greatest advances in natural theology and fieldwork, with special words by Elder Kardon Hadi of the Low Priest Chamber! THESE ARE THE BONES HIDDEN BY GOD!
[X] Join the Pugilist marches, and march in religious unity with your own schism.
 
Cetashwayo said:
Traditional Iconoclasm rejects the very personalism inherent in the debate around who and how the Patriarch should be chosen and instead argues that the Patriarch is a far less important figure as a leader than as a spiritual conduit for God chosen by the priesthood. It dislikes strong sacral authority vested in a single person and so opposes both sides.
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based
 
[X] A Printing Press Covenant, to spread the word of God far and wide beyond the boundaries of the temple [Institution Added: Black Sheep Covenant, which will allow far more rapid spread and outreach of the sect].

To be heard is to change the soul, and to print is to be heard by all that see you! The liberation of the spirit begins with the clanking of a press!

[X] On the Rites of Women, and our state of bondage [Create new Tier I doctrine].

Did not Pasan Ghadi demand of us to level the strong and bring up the weak? I say to you now, fellow disciples, who among us can meet God in the great hereafter and say to Him with honesty that we follow this command so long as a single woman is left out of the rites?

[X] Join the Schismatic marches, and show solidarity with other radicals.

Those devils and rascals in the Grand Synod think they can place themselves above all in the Kingdom of God! If Pasan Ghadi were alive, he would march straight to their chambers and make demand that they cease! We must follow in his holy example!
 
Cetashwayo said:
Traditional Iconoclasm rejects the very personalism inherent in the debate around who and how the Patriarch should be chosen and instead argues that the Patriarch is a far less important figure as a leader than as a spiritual conduit for God chosen by the priesthood. It dislikes strong sacral authority vested in a single person and so opposes both sides.
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Damn, I would've voted for Iconoclasts' choice anyway if I read the quest in time, but with the clarification, I am now sad it didn't win.
 
I really love this turn, it really SV 's sort of chaos that somehow menage to work

hmmm..random question, but what would the Great Synod do if the new circle is established to fit them in 77 seat? Would they just not establish a new circle?

Regency said:
Whoa whoa wait is this like...Vasp's political economy!? Iiinteresting.
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Yup, I also love this part of the setting where secularism is not a thing so politics, science, philosophy, and theology is pretty much one and the same. Instead of political economy or natural science, we have moral economy and natural theology.

As for the vote proper

[X] A Printing Press Covenant, to spread the word of God far and wide beyond the boundaries of the temple [Institution Added: Black Sheep Covenant, which will allow far more rapid spread and outreach of the sect].

Beside the simple fact that our inability to truly spread our message is become more and more glaring, I also believe it's time to give our poor Qanam some pamphlets to hand out. I still remember the last time he has to go spread our word without aids, it was very depressing

[X] On the Rites of Women, and our state of bondage [Create new Tier I doctrine].

Beside all the other argument, I would like point out a simple fact. While our most honourable junor brothers in the Scourge of God already have their doctrine of Extinguishment codified and formalised within our sect, the same could not be said for our sister in the Convent of the Gunpowder Eucharist. How are our sisters suppose to fight for their equality when even among the sect they are not equal? Not in the arms or strength, or zeal, but in fundamental knowledge that would allow the light of truth to spread. Only with clear doctrine can our sister become more than a mere armed militia but a true force for liberation.

[X] The Serenaphim Exhibit. At Yatoni Temple, ONE DAY ONLY, COME and SEE the most spectacular fossilized remnants of the lizardly TYRANT ANGELS of yesteryear, found with the greatest advances in natural theology and fieldwork, with special words by Elder Kardon Hadi of the Low Priest Chamber! THESE ARE THE BONES HIDDEN BY GOD!

I have been convinced of the merit of going to the museum and has been showed of the divine truth that dinosuar is, in fact, awesome.

[X] Join the Schismatic marches, and show solidarity with other radicals.

While it is crucial to do not forget our root as a Pugilistm it is only through dialogue and cooperation with other sect and follow radicals could the whole truth of God be revealed and our task of holy revolution be fulfilled.

Yes, I vote for Amalism in the first vote, how could you know?

Also, while composing my answer, I see that @Cornuthaum has betray the cause of dinosaur and I shall remember this for at least a few hour.
 
[X] A stockpile of concealed firearms, to protect disciples from danger whilst they do their holy work [Institution added: Six-Shin Shooters, armed sect disciples ready for a Nachivan street fight].
"The time where the treacherous Sword-Altar Standard descends into the city to slaughter all the righteous followers of God draws ever nearer. We must be as prepared as possible for this longest night."

[X] On the Rites of Women, and our state of bondage [Create new Tier I doctrine].
"The people of Nachivan have responded with suspicion to the Truth which our Sisters of the Gunpowder Eucharist attempted to preach. We must work harder to bring this Doctrine into the world. Dedicating our first major publication to this cause is an important first step on a long and righteous path."

[X] Grand Parade. At Karogen Academy, observe the most HOLY parade of the White-Gold and Pale Horse Standard, hosted by the DASHING Elder and Komandir Akabar Morsi! HUSBANDS BEWARE! MARCHING BAND, POLO, and THE MOST GRAND CANNON-BLASTS IN ALL OF VASPUKARAN! Come and be deafened, or save your ears and lose your SOUL!
"I care not what entertainment we pursue for I have trouble finding joy beneath the ever present threat of violence. What I do care about is that the Jurors are the most important chamber, both as enemies and as allies, in these tumultuous times. I apologize to the devotees of the great Tyrant Angels who will have to see their majesty on a different occasion."

[X] Join the Pugilist marches, and march in religious unity with your own schism.
"Any march against this crime against God's people is a good march. I see little issue showing solidarity with our siblings in Schism here."
 
I'm kind of tempted to change my vote to adding a rough-and-ready unit of street fighters, feels like it fits w the arms cache we already have and our sisters devoted to their husband-rifles and son-cartridges, and I'm also tempted to start pushing for elder care… but alas I can't turn away from the outreach that the covenant with the printers will give us…
 
Every revolutionary group has to grapple with the tension between idealism and pragmatism. With the situation as unstable as it is now my choice to prioritize the Juror-proletariat over developing an articulated doctrine of feminism is betting that street-fighting power will be necessary very soon. It seems to me quite probable that the reactionary Grand Synod will continue to try to neuter the Sanhedron and this will provoke rioting with the Sword-and-Altar Jury firing into crowds to disperse them, which will lead to more violence and a political spiral.

If we do have more time than that, though, outreach to a broader population might be more desirable.
 
Cavalier said:
Every revolutionary group has to grapple with the tension between idealism and pragmatism. With the situation as unstable as it is now my choice to prioritize the Juror-proletariat over developing an articulated doctrine of feminism is betting that street-fighting power will be necessary very soon. It seems to me quite probable that the reactionary Grand Synod will continue to try to neuter the Sanhedron and this will provoke rioting with the Sword-and-Altar Jury firing into crowds to disperse them, which will lead to more violence and a political spiral.

If we do have more time than that, though, outreach to a broader population might be more desirable.
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That's all well and good. Only I'm not arguing on the basis of idealism, but rather reality and pragmatism.

What you say makes good sense, if we werent already so tiny that it makes no real difference. We have guns and Jurors, which already make up a good chunk of our sect. But with our Sect as it is, there are only so much room for the Scourge of God to grow and to equip more of them. If fighting starts soon, we wouldnt last either way by ourselves.

What is important for us, is to be able to form alliances with other Sects and Schismatics. Only then would we have the mass of support necessary to actually sustain our current Juror fighting group adequately and to grow their numbers-abilities appreciably to actually matter in such a street fight.

As I said, developing an articulated doctrine of Feminism is not just idealism. Its a foundational pillar of our manifesto of Grand Liberation. Not just of peasants and Jurors, which as others pointed out in-universe, while they are decent enough causes. Many find outside of our sect find them to be inherently contradictory ideas that are in conflict, and our preaching to Jurors actively makes potential allies suspicious of us. It is only by expanding that into a broader population that we can demonstrate to them solidly that it is no contradiction and that liberation for one is a necessary step on the spiral for the liberation for all.

Revolutions cannot simply survive on pragmatism. And as said, we are not even established enough to have such a discussion. With how tiny we are idealism is pragmatism. They survive by being guided by their developed doctrines, which guide their partisans and give their allies and soldiers something to fight for. And in out situation, there is no way the Scourge of God Banner can grow big enough to do what you want it do, assuming the timeframe is as tight as you think it is.

Far more practical use of our time is to develop a Grand Liberation Manifesto, which allows us to coalesce Pugilist and Schismatic Sects around us with the Sect and its militant arms (Scourge of God and the Gundpower Convent), as the militant arms of the whole alliance supported by this force united by common purpose and vision of Liberation.
 
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[X] A Printing Press Covenant, to spread the word of God far and wide beyond the boundaries of the temple [Institution Added: Black Sheep Covenant, which will allow far more rapid spread and outreach of the sect].
[X] On the Rites of Women, and our state of bondage [Create new Tier I doctrine].
[X] The Serenaphim Exhibit. At Yatoni Temple, ONE DAY ONLY, COME and SEE the most spectacular fossilized remnants of the lizardly TYRANT ANGELS of yesteryear, found with the greatest advances in natural theology and fieldwork, with special words by Elder Kardon Hadi of the Low Priest Chamber! THESE ARE THE BONES HIDDEN BY GOD!
[X] Join the Pugilist marches, and march in religious unity with your own schism.
 
IamtooSleepy said:
hmmm..random question, but what would the Great Synod do if the new circle is established to fit them in 77 seat? Would they just not establish a new circle?
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There hasn't been a new circle in a long time so it hasn't had to consider that. But its composition and size has changed over time in order to fit various holy number combinations such as 77 or 71.
 
KOGGERS!
Cetashwayo said:
the majority insistence that the Patriarch is simultaneously an impotent creature of his chamber, an immortal resurrecting soul-piece of the original Amalgast that has transmigrated for hundreds of years, possessing Patriarchs, and also not separated in kind from other prophets.
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[X] Elder support and daycare, to support the young and old of the sect and pave a way for the world to come [Institution Added: Home of Mitzvat, which will increase fervor by reinforcing the sect's commitment to its past and future].
[X] On the Rites of Women, and our state of bondage [Create new Tier I doctrine].
[X] The Serenaphim Exhibit. At Yatoni Temple, ONE DAY ONLY, COME and SEE the most spectacular fossilized remnants of the lizardly TYRANT ANGELS of yesteryear, found with the greatest advances in natural theology and fieldwork, with special words by Elder Kardon Hadi of the Low Priest Chamber! THESE ARE THE BONES HIDDEN BY GOD!
[X] Join the Pugilist marches, and march in religious unity with your own schism.

I'm voting for this fully aware that we're giving up immediate short term gains and frankly, probably long-term gains too.

But dammit, I want to try. I want to try to make a sect arguing for radical liberation, which sees the pilgrims to God everywhere in invisible chains and says "no this is not acceptable". Who sees its elderly left by the road on the way to God and takes the time and the bread and sits by the ones who won't make it to the world to come, for no reason besides that we ought to. I want a sect which begins by nurturing its children - preparing them for the world to come, if you really must see it that way - rather than be blinded by the light of future glories, and present battles. I'm willing to try for that, even if it means that our sect will not be active in the first battles, and will only begin arming when everyone else is fighting their tenth.

I know.

But I'm voting this way anyway.
 
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