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In Which I Watch Jojo's Bizarre Adventure

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ZerbanDaGreat said:
Well, just spent way too much time reading this entire thread instead of doing something productive.

It gives me a certain amount of perverse satisfaction but also makes me very depressed to say that I was completely right to dump Stardust Crusaders when I did (about when Avdol died) because I saw all of the signs that the show wasn't going to get better. Stardust Crusaders has aged horribly and I would go as far to say that it's flat-out bad. It's a completely by-the-numbers monster-of-the-week shounenshit story that discards all pretension of fighting smart established in Part 2 in favour of the group acting like fucking idiots until it's time for the episode to be over, with Stands that are all pretty fucking boring and if we're being honest pretty fucking boring villains too - as much as people talk up Araki's creativity and 'THERE'S A STAND THAT DOES X' the majority of the monsters I've seen have either been very simple ideas or just outright copies of horror movies just with spooky punchghosts instead of Freddy Kruegar or what-have-you.

The real, cardinal sin of Stardust Crusaders is how it handles the two Jojos. Joseph is a fucking idiot now who never contributes to anything, no matter how useful his wily ways might have won the day even if he were his Stand-less Part 2 self, and because of the story's basic structure his 'moment in the sun' episode just comes off as fucking insulting to everyone who liked Joseph for his brains because lol Empress is dead now so he's back to being a fucking idiot. Because we can't have anyone infringe on precious Jotaro, can we? Perhaps appropriately for such an old and influential series, Jotaro is just this dense critical mass of painful strong-and-silent antihero cliches. You could literally replace him with a fridge and the show would lose nothing, he's that fucking bland. He literally doesn't have character traits beyond sometimes getting angry at the monster of the week. And his Stand, even among the especially boring Part 3 Stands, is like unpainted drywall. It's super strong and super tough and super fast and even when he's not paying attention it solves his problems for him and like 70% of problems are solved by "and then Star Platinum punches it". And it all comes to a head in the final fight with DIO.

See what makes my balls ache about 'oh yeah I'm used to asspulls I watched Joseph's shenanigans' is that the difference in execution is like night and day. Joseph is a goofy and vulnerable character with traits and flaws. He rolls through plan after plan after plan, and sometimes he just completely fucks up and accomplishes nothing. And when a plan doesn't work right or someone sees through him he actually reacts. He has a range of emotions wider than a fucking teaspoon and, honestly, reading this thread has given me a new appreciation for the end. I'd totally forgotten that Lisa Lisa demonstrated the Red Stone's light-enhancing powers in its first appearance, so my main problem with his defeat of Cars is now gone because it's justified for him to subconsciously realise that it'd enhance Cars' 'one hundred times stronger' Ripple. The simple fact of the matter is that Joseph was always outclassed physically and in need of closing the gap with smarts, a thousand times more gratifying than the reverse.

And then there's Jotaro. The culmination of how worthless Jotaro is as a protagonist isn't even worth spoiling. When you get to the final confrontation with DIO, simply think of the most boring way and zero-effort way he could solve the problem. Congratulations, you've figured out the twist. Have fun still having to deal with the fucker for Part 4.

(Wow that got a bit venomous. Sorry, the series was kind of an emotional rollercoaster for me. I fucking despised Phantom Blood and Dio himself with a fury that eclipses ten thousand suns, then Battle Tendency came along and made me believe in the light of anime again. So Stardust Crusaders was uh, kind of a come-down crash for me.)
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Hey Zerban. Big fan. Would you mind sharing your opinion on the other parts, or have you only seen the anime?
 
One thing that made Part 3 infinitely more enjoyable for me was one simple idea.

Jotaro is trying too hard to be cool. What do I mean by that? Well, I mean more or less what I said - Jotaro's big thing is that he's actually incredibly socially awkward and insecure, so he tries really, really hard to be cool. Of course, Araki having not written this way (because that would mean not being "like Clint Eastwood" as he put it) means that it only works to an extent, but I at least imagine after any given episode everyone is like

"ey Jotaro what was that one-liner about fam ;) "

And he just goes

"I swear to God, Grandpa :|"

And everyone just gives him so much shit and he gets all bluster-y and everyone laughs at him for trying too hard :V
 
Speaking of Clint Eastwood, he and Araki have met. He gave Clint a picture of Jotaro pointing, there is a picture of Clint alongside the picture also pointing.
 
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Episode 53
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    • This time the adventure is an Aswan and just so I can remember them the older one is named Oingo while the younger is Boingo. This took a lot longer than expected.


    No points for guessing which Egyptian god the older brother's Stand is named after.


    The only thing surprising about this plot is that poison wasn't tried earlier.

    They then get off the bus after spotting the group and the elder starts shouting about how they're invincible due to a Stand that can predict the future and one that can change faces.


    With that face I'll be surprised if they're anything more than joke villains.


    The Stand named after the god of knowledge lets you see the future, surprisingly appropriate.

    After the opening Oingo takes a guy out with a frying pan so that he can replace them while Boingo drags the body away. Apparently Boingo saw the group all drinking poisoned black tea.


    Polnareff smokes? That's new.

    As it turns out, after the last episode Kakyoin may be blinded and may be forced to sit the rest of the adventure out, which is a good end for him since it pretty much guarantees he'll live. Abdul, however, is mostly fine and will get released by the end of the episode.

    On Polnareff's suggestion they go to a cafe picked by Polnareff throwing his cigarette on the ground and going to the cafe it points at. Once inside, they initially order black tea like the manga/comic said they would, only for Joseph to say that since they're in Egypt they need to watch for poison and order three unopened cokes instead of black tea.


    Oh, a new style for the random coloured backgrounds.

    Once they're about to get their colas another guy in the room complains about how the cola is warm and walks out without paying, prompting Joseph to go back to ordering black tea. Polnareff argues against Joseph's general paranoia by pointing out that they went to a random cafe and there's no way that Dio's guys are waiting to poison them there (and to be fair, without Thoth this plan wouldn't be possible).

    Exasperated with Joseph, Polnareff says that if he's that worried they can just go to the cafe across the road. Joseph agrees but the cafe across the road is burning down.


    This is why you don't throw away cigarettes.

    Surprisingly, Polnareff doesn't even get a rude comment from Jotaro and Joseph for this as they sit down to drink their tea. Just as the tea is getting drunk, however, Iggy steals a cake.


    Wait, since nothing is coming out of Jotaro's mouth, does that mean I'll get to watch him swallow the tea and die?:V

    Annoyed, the group chase after Iggy and I get some more context on Thoth, it can only see the very near future and it seems like it's not very good at showing context and requires interpretation, for something that grants future sight, it's got plenty of weaknesses which is probably a good thing.

    After the two idiots have composed themselves they follow the group and run across a random guy with a punchable face, knock him out and then steal his wallet.


    Stop the presses, there's a fully grown guy who isn't huge in JJBA.

    Finally the comic starts filling itself in and the plan this time is to disguise a bomb as an orange and kill Jotaro with it while they're on the way to the hospital to visit Abdul and Kakyoin. I get the feeling that Oingo will be the one who gets blown up instead since he has a face-changing Stand.


    Good for nothing but hiding and surviving face punches (admittedly that's probably good for him since he's going after Jotaro).


    Subtlety, thy name is Oingo.


    Do they just carry all sorts of odd kits around to help them act on what Thoth says will happen?

    While he's planting the orange, he gets caught by Joseph and Polnareff (Jotaro apparently went straight to the hospital ahead of them) and my guess from earlier goes from being something that may happen to something that's practically guaranteed to happen. Oddly enough, they don't notice that the handle on the driver's side has been bashed off with a wrench.


    This entire episode is just going to be two joke characters flailing about and trying to kill the group, isn't it?

    Somehow, this disguise works and they don't immediately notice the different skin tone or the ridiculously oversized hat. The only thing keeping Oingo alive is his status as a joke character.

    After nearly catching Oingo out several times I'm now beginning to suspect that Joseph and Polnareff have caught on and are just fucking with Oingo.

    To their credit, they immediately catch on to what it means when Oingo gets shoved into the car while wearing Jotaro's face.

    While sweating bullets, Oingo throws the orange out of the car only for Iggy to bring it back and get in the car.


    Iggy has joined the trolling (yes, I'm going with this interpretation because "they're utterly clueless for a whole episode" bores me).

    Next up, Polnareff notes just how strange Jotaro is acting after he shouts holy cow and wants to know if he's an imposter but drops the subject after watching him sweat a bit, only to ask for "Jotaro" to show off his special trick.

    Jotaro can apparently move his lips in just the right way that the cigarette will go straight up and balance on his lip for a bit before falling on his tongue (and Polnareff has his 4th cigarette in 10 minutes, when did he become a chain smoker). Oingo can apparently do it to despite how dangerous it is, only for Polnareff to ask that he do five at once rather than one.


    They're really breaking out the stranger bits of the artstyle for this episode between the comics and the backgrounds for the inner monologues.


    Just how much smoke must be going down his throat now?

    After a bit of struggle, he gets them all in his mouth.


    Of course, the really hard part is not screaming when the cigarette burns your tongue (and throat if you swallow).

    Polnareff tries to get him to drink some orange juice right after (orange juice on fresh burns? Ow) but that fails and Oingo spits out the cigarettes.

    Oingo keeps on stewing on his situation and how once Joseph and Polnareff get suspicious they'll just keep prodding him and how he's screwed because if he releases the transformation he'll get killed by Polnareff but if he doesn't his bomb will kill him.


    Oingo is good for reaction faces at least.

    Next up, Polnareff teases him by saying that the way he clasps his hands together proves he was a woman in his past life before challenging Oingo to see who can eat an orange faster.

    At this, he just loses it and starts demanding that they let him out of the car since his stomach is killing him. Once he's out there's a tense standoff before Polnareff hands him some toilet paper to use before driving ahead to the hospital.

    Before they go much further they decide to throw out the orange Iggy picked up and they throw it right where Oingo will step.


    The moment of dawning comprehension never gets old.

    Somehow, Oingo survives the blast that was supposed to rip him in half and Boingo catches up to him and resolves to go after the group on his own. But before he can get far their actions catch up to them.


    Payback's a bitch.

    Meanwhile, at the hospital, they run into Jotaro and it turns out that the group really is that dense rather than just fucking with Oingo.

    Then the credits roll.



    Next time, hopefully an actually serious episode. I can't imagine how annoying these two would have been for people reading this weekly when it came out. Unfortunately since I didn't get to see Thoth's stats I just know that these two are coming back for another episode. Their only saving grace is the fact that Oingo is a goldmine for silly face pics.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • The Curious Fan said:
    Stop the presses, there's a fully grown guy who isn't huge in JJBA.
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    It's punishment for what he did in his last life. :V
    The Curious Fan said:
    Good for nothing but hiding and surviving face punches (admittedly that's probably good for him since he's going after Jotaro).
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    That's probably not what the A durability means, it's just that since it has no direct manifestation like most Stands it can't be directly attacked, like how The Fool manipulates sand but doesn't have its own body.
     
    Insufficient Dakka said:
    That's probably not what the A durability means, it's just that since it has no direct manifestation like most Stands it can't be directly attacked, like how The Fool manipulates sand but doesn't have its own body.
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    I always took Endurance as measuring the level of damage reduction imposed during synchronisation i.e. Jotaro can take absurd punishment from everything because Star Platinum always bamfs in like armour and has A-rank Endurance.
     
    ZerbanDaGreat said:
    I always took Endurance as measuring the level of damage reduction imposed during synchronisation i.e. Jotaro can take absurd punishment from everything because Star Platinum always bamfs in like armour and has A-rank Endurance.
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    I figured it was usually the durability of the Stand outside of certain cases, so if you pierced Star Platinum's heart it'd affect Jotaro's heart the same way, but actually stabbing it is the hard part.
     
    Durability (or as it was explained to me Stamina) is how often you can use you're stand's ability and how long that ability lasts.
     
    The Curious Fan said:
    After nearly catching Oingo out several times I'm now beginning to suspect that Joseph and Polnareff have caught on and are just fucking with Oingo.
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    Glad to see I'm not the only one who thought of that, and I was all the more disappointed when it turned out that they were really completely clueless!
    I mean Polnareff I can understand since he's an idiot, but Joseph!? Come on dude, you can't be the same guy that brilliantly trolled and outsmarted three immortals Aztecs vampire demi-gods! :mad:

    Here you have what's my main grip with part 3, that the characters can hold Idiot Balls the size of DIO's ego for the sake of the plot, even those for whom it wouldn't make any sense to be so fucking dense! (and yes I have a precise example in mind)
     
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    Insufficient Dakka said:
    By that logic
    Jotaro's timestop would be shorter during Stone Ocean than Stardust Crusaders or Diamond is Unbreakable, since its durability went from A to E.
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    I just assume the reason in DIU that Star Platinum's durability isn't E is just Araki being inconsistent as usual. And the reason It isn't Rank E in SDC is because Jotaro hasn't discovered the whole time stop thing yet.
     
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