I think going so far north, GBR might still be under a sheet of ice, or at least suffer from long and harsh winters.
Western Europe should be thick and dense virgin forests. Settling there would be a hard endevour.
Spain on the other hand...hmm
The latest ice melted away in Scandinavia about 10,000 BCE. (Younger Dryas)
By the time of this story, agriculture was widespread in most of Europe, with different pottery ware stone age cultures. Very early copper tools. There is still a lot of wilderness, with settlements limited to major rivers valleys, plains, etc, with post-glacial hunter-gatherers still living in vast swathes of the continent.
Technically Scandinavia was still witnessing heavy winters and ice cover to 60' latitude, so I can't imagine cold Atlantic and Arctic winds being kind to the British Isles.
I am really enjoying this, although one thing in that last post that really stood out to me was the term "honorary americans", I imagine that in this TL's future "american" will be a either a term for aristocrat or depending on the local politics, having an american ancestor will either be a huge benefit or an insult.
I am really enjoying this, although one thing in that last post that really stood out to me was the term "honorary americans", I imagine that in this TL's future "american" will be a either a term for aristocrat or depending on the local politics, having an american ancestor will either be a huge benefit or an insult.
Nobles will still be nobles, just as they were in Rome and Japan, which didn't stop both of these to consider everyone who wasn't a Roman or Japanese to be a "barbarian" or "outsider", while considering their peoples names to be synonymous with 'cultured, and following (their) social norms".
I am really enjoying this, although one thing in that last post that really stood out to me was the term "honorary americans", I imagine that in this TL's future "american" will be a either a term for aristocrat or depending on the local politics, having an american ancestor will either be a huge benefit or an insult.
There are places (From Tucson to Troy basically) where the population is at least majority American or American-born. So there are definitely places where that wouldn't really be the case. Though a lot of places I imagine will have interesting definitions of what it means to be American in the years to come.
There are places (From Tucson to Troy basically) where the population is at least majority American or American-born. So there are definitely places where that wouldn't really be the case. Though a lot of places I imagine will have interesting definitions of what it means to be American in the years to come.
Possibility; The Americans develop as a regional ruling class similar to the Aryan "invaders" of India. A ruling caste of nobility, soldiers, and experts in certain technological areas like metalworking and gunpowder manufacture.
The Status of Hittites
Hittites still compose the overwhelming majority of the population of Hattusa and the former empire. As of 20 A.E there are only roughly 2,000 Americans and those of American decent living within the entire Republic, compared to the 30,000 Hittites living in Hattusa alone. And Sanford has made numerous attempts to present the Republic as the rightful successors of the Hittite Empire. Despite this, the Hittites remain largely second class citizens within their own empire.
There is no uniform policy for how to treat Hittites. Numerous efforts have been attempted but the Hattusa government was sharply divided on the issue. Some provinces keep almost all of them in some form of bondage, ranging from debt slavery to chattel slavery. Others tend to follow Hattusa's example of making the majority of them second class citizens. This largely amounted to Hittites being banned from voting, high ranks in the military, and holding major office.
The remaining nobility proved rather tricky as they proved far too vital to simply get rid of. Most were simply made honorary Americans, a title that on paper at least made them equal to anyone born in Tucson. Sanford would work hard to keep them appeased, offering them many pre-Event gifts from Tucson and access to the few trained doctors he had access to. In turn, many of the nobles would have Americans marry into their families, even adopting some of them as their heirs. Quite a few nobles still hold important titles and ranks. The Gal dubsar (Chief of Scribes) remains a Hittite for example. Though the prestige and power of the scribes has waned as Sanford encourages more and more of the nobility to learn both written and spoken English.
To further complicate matters there is the Hattusa legal code. The Hattusa core region effectively runs on two different sets of laws. For much of the Hittite population the old laws remain almost intact, with the majority of crimes seeing a downgrade in terms of punishment. Sanford had intended to replace the death penalty in all but the most serious cases with imprisonment but quickly realized that would be impractical considering the current state of technology, instead opting to use enslavement and public humiliation as a common punishment for all but the most severe crimes. Americans of all stripes however are subject to a far less severe legal code. One that grants them numerous rights such as the right to a trial by jury and various means of government support for American run-businesses. In cases where Hittite interests and American interests clash, Americans are favored almost 100% of the time.
Matters of Faith
"The Hattusa Republic is a nation founded on Faith" reads one line in the Hattusa constitution. One of the many requirements insisted upon during the Soft Coup by the more right wing elements. Officially all citizens, Hittite and American, must profess some manner of faith. Christians in particular are listed as a protected class, allowing them to proselytize without fear of government interference. A few more radical elements early on attempted to make the Hattusa Republic a Christian state and outlaw the Hittite priesthood entirely but Sanford was able to talk them out of it by pointing out how necessary the priests were to the continued function of the republic. The Christian community numbers roughly 7,000 strong in the city itself, divided between various churches and sects both new and old. The catholic church maintains a strong presence under the leadership of self appointed Archbishop Robert Beecher. Sanford himself keeps the specifics of his own faith quiet, not wanting to further weakening his position by revealing he was a member of one of the more Heterodox sects to arise out of the event.
The Hittite religion has withered in the years since Sanford's conquest. While the priesthood at first proved Vital to Sanford's control over the city, they have been slowly pushed to the sidelines as the years went on, replaced by Sanford with secular civil administrators. The Hittite gods aren't banned, but they aren't protected either. And after a failed conspiracy in 11 A.E was linked back to one of the priests of the god Tarḫunna, Sanford had all temples in and around the city placed under surveillance. The city's temples remain open, but the crowds grow smaller each year.
The various governors have taken different approaches to the issue of faith in their fiefdoms. Ranging from repression and temple burning to a select few even converting or syncretizing the Hittite gods with their own beliefs.
Hattusa in 20 A.E
The Zalpa War was the last major armed conflict Hattusa has faced as of yet. Though it remains in a de-facto state of war with both the New Roman Consulate and the New Pueblo. Convey attacks, acts of economic sabotage and even border raids are far from unheard of. These attacks, combined with Hattusa's distance from Tucson, and the devastation caused by the collapse of the Hittite Empire have left the Hattusa economy under developed, limited largely to internal trade and some trade along the Black Sea. Trips to Tucson are few and far between. No one's going hungry (Well, no Americans are at least) but the aging Sanford grows frustrated. Over a decade spent watching his dream be constrained by so many people has left the man bitter and bellicose.
But his years of waiting have born fruit. Hattusa now has a proper army and after years of sweet talking and negotiations, Sanford has managed to convince the governors that a second expedition is worth the risk. That they can finally see Maddox pay for her treason and smash the false southern empire.
Sanford spends more and more time each day staring at his old maps, dreaming of completing the vision he started all those years before, claiming the Hittite Empire in it's entirety.
I think it would be either or; either some lawyers preserved the basics of the common law system in general, supported by whatever state power, even if we would saw it as very procedurally flawed from an OTL perspective. Or it has devolved into what laymen imagine law to be, and/or convenient for the rulers, based mainly on vaguely remembered episodes of NCIS.
It's not solidly enforced and there's issues to be sure. There's an unspoken "Sanford will end you if you make him angry enough and lack enough friends to protect you" rule.
I think it would be either or; either some lawyers preserved the basics of the common law system in general, supported by whatever state power, even if we would saw it as very procedurally flawed from an OTL perspective. Or it has devolved into what laymen imagine law to be, and/or convenient for the rulers, based mainly on vaguely remembered episodes of NCIS.
And that is also an issue. A lot of people are running things how they think they remembered them working, which can lead to a messed up mental game of telephone.
No. I mean Hattusa doesn't really care if you proclaim yourself christian but never go to the church they built a few blocks from your house but most people in Hattusa are religious. Actually putting down Jedi or flying spaghetti monster would probably get the government annoyed since Hattusa does go to the right politically.
And that is also an issue. A lot of people are running things how they think they remembered them working, which can lead to a messed up mental game of telephone.
Surprise witnesses are probably a thing, given how much they show up in TV and Film despite being banned in real life. I wonder if some form of Miranda Warning is still recited when someone is arrested, given how much the MW has become part of our cultural understanding of law and order.
No. I mean Hattusa doesn't really care if you proclaim yourself christian but never go to the church they built a few blocks from your house but most people in Hattusa are religious.
Hattusa is a right wing state, many of the groups that joined Sanford's expedition had shifted to the right or at least became more religious, as a mentioned some were basically quasi-cults when Sanford found them. So a lot of people in Hattusa don't have too much issue with Hattusa basically banning Atheism. That wouldn't fly with modern Americans but well, time and experience changes people.
Like I said, "You force us to profess some religion? Fine. I'm a Jedi."
Because this is what it boils down to, because there are bound to be people that will not believe in anything, regardless of the groups composition. Which is why the "Must profess" is so silly.
Like I said, "You force us to profess some religion? Fine. I'm a Jedi."
Because this is what it boils down to, because there are bound to be people that will not believe in anything, regardless of the groups composition. Which is why the "Must profess" is so silly.
Eh, right-wingers tend to dislike that, and probably have a list of acceptable religions. There are good odds you can't be Muslim or Jewish either, because xenophobia.
You might be able to get away with Universalist Unitarian, but 'fake religions' like FSM, Jediism, and Satanism are at best going to get a stern look from the census man saying 'picks again'
You might be able to get away with Universalist Unitarian, but 'fake religions' like FSM, Jediism, and Satanism are at best going to get a stern look from the census man saying 'picks again'
Sanford literally signed a "religious tolerance bill" at gun point. So that census man has nothing to say that would affect anyone's choice.
Again, the wording, expectations and the actual law do not mix with each-other at all in the wording used.
Sanford literally signed a "religious tolerance bill" at gun point. So that census man has nothing to say that would affect anyone's choice.
Again, the wording, expectations and the actual law do not mix with each-other at all in the wording used.
When American reactionaries talk about religious tolerance or freedom of religion, it usually refers to freedom of Christian religions, but not too long ago it could have excluded Catholics as well. It's a perfectly reasonable euphemism.
When American reactionaries talk about religious tolerance or freedom of religion, it usually refers to freedom of Christian religions, but not too long ago it could have excluded Catholics as well. It's a perfectly reasonable euphemism.
So I just finished binge reading my way through this and would like to just say I've loved it so far. Also maybe it's just how many Total War games I play but now that I've caught the main thing I wanted to say is that I'd play the hell out of a Total War game set in this setting, just for the eclectic/anachronistic unit selection each of the factions would probably have!
So I just finished binge reading my way through this and would like to just say I've loved it so far. Also maybe it's just how many Total War games I play but now that I've caught the main thing I wanted to say is that I'd play the hell out of a Total War game set in this setting, just for the eclectic/anachronistic unit selection each of the factions would probably have!
Thanks. I had actually given some thought to what a paradox mod of this would look like. Either EU4 or HOI4. Both are relatively simple to learn how to mod from what I hear but I fear this whole situation would require quite a bit of work.
The screams of people half a decade dead dragged Haynes out of his sleep. For a brief moment he was disoriented, reaching for someone who wasn't there. Before sense reasserted itself and buried those memories again. Judging by the light coming into his room it was somewhat early in the morning. late enough that he didn't have to pretend he was going to get anymore sleep. David wiped the sweat from his brow and pulled himself out of his sleeping bag.
He looked around his room. Once the bedroom of some Hittite nobleman who was now dead or had fled to the south, now it belonged to out of work truck driver turned unofficial police officer. Which just about summed up the present state of the world.
Haynes looked himself over in his mirror, salvaged from a truck, and briefly debated if he should risk shaving or just embrace the beard. He ultimately decided that was an issue for tomorrow and started to change, he had more important things to worry today.
Walking out onto the streets of Saltiwara he was greeted by an all too familiar noise, people screaming at each other. This time at least it was two Americans instead of an American yelling at a Hittite. Haynes watched the two men for a moment as the squabbled over the ownership of a set of pots. After he was sure they weren't going to dissolve into violence he moved on.
He and the other Americans had taken over the noble quarter and part of the merchant quarter as well. Tents lined the streets as people were still figuring out where to live. There was something surreal walking the streets of a city designed thousands of years before the advent of cars. Before the advent of horses even, outside of Maddox's own stead the only animals that could transport anything around here where mules and oxen. Even the wider streets were so narrow compared to what he had once known. Fully populated this place probably felt unbelievably cramped. And Haynes dreaded to think of what it smelled like in the Summer. Thankfully this place had a sewer system, albeit a rather primitive one. Some of the former engineering students had plans to improve it but no one was certain if those plans were remotely practical, and they had so many other pirorties to deal with first.
Cold air washed over him as he made his way to the palace, past food stalls and downtimer merchants selling pottery and jewels. A sense of normal was starting to take hold. Both sides were actually willing to walk the streets again, the two groups were starting to actually intermingle a bit. Mostly just the merchants and noble children though. The nobility tolerated them and the common folks, the farmers and herders who spent their winters in the city. He had seen the hateful stares some of them gave him. Months of martial law had put a stop to any attacks on the Americans but that only made the tension and fear worse.
Haynes sympathized for how little that was worth. To these people, he must have seemed like some sort of alien being. Speaking some incomprehensible language, wielding weapons that shattered armor from hundreds of yards of way, their entire way of life being upended in a matter of months, to say nothing of the plague that ravaged the countryside after the Event.
He approached the Palace. Apparently it was belonged to the king before the empire collapsed.Haynes was less than impressed by the place, between the flat roofs and the white walls it honestly reminded him more of a white washed pueblo than anything else.
A collection of guards, both uptimers and downtimers, greeted him as he walked in. Sloan briefly nodded at him before returning to her rooftop patrol.
Maddox had set up her office in the throne room. She had originally taken a far more modest and more centrally located office but that had lead many of the nobles to think the old governor was still in charge, which offended Maddox a great deal.
Haynes found Maddox in a all too familiar situation, she was screaming at someone.
"What the hell do you mean you want to execute him?!" Sophia barked at a cowering noble and his translator
The nobleman spoke something in Hittite to the translator. A few of the others had managed to pick up some of the language but so far that had proven too much of a challenge for him
"The boy did not keep proper c-care of of h-his" The translator stumbled for a moment before gesturing to his hair "To be so unkept when preparing food is insult to the gods. The codes dictate that he and his entire bloodline be erased for such an offense."
Haynes shook his head in disbelief as he watched. If there was one thing he had learned about the Hittites in his time here, is that they favored the brutal side of justice to a frankly terrifying degree.
Sophia held her head in hand as she rested against the desk for a moment.
"Were not doing that." Maddox's voice was low and flat, as if daring the nobleman to challenge them.
The noble spoke again, practically whispering his words to the translator.
"What do you intend to do with the boy then, sir?" The translator said respectfully "The people will not eat there if they know he remains there.
"Just put him on fishing duty." Maddox said with a sigh "I have people who can show him how to work the river nets."
The noble bowed and departed, staring at Haynes briefly as he passed
"Ah, Mr.Haynes, good. Come in come in." Maddox's gestured warmly
Haynes walked into the small former throne room. His eyes briefly glancing at the odd mix of Hittite and American items before refocusing on Maddox. "Thank you."
"So, why did you want to see me today?" Maddox asked as she stared at one of the several books laid out across her desk.
"Not me personally." Haynes admitted "I'm here on behalf of a number of people."
"Ahh." Maddox nodded "They're too scared so they're sending you into the Lion's den, so to speak."
Haynes nodded "Pretty much. A number of people are starting to get concerned about your control of the guns, particularly the older guns. It seems a number of them used to be owned by some of the people here and they're starting to wonder when they could get them back?"
For a long, painful moment Maddox simply stared at him.
"Is this a joke?" She asked
"No, I assure you it is nothing of the sort." Haynes replied evenly
"Do they realize how little pre-Event ammo we have?!" She exclaimed "Once that's gone it's gone and I don't even know how to make freaking percussion caps yet or where to get the Mercury fulminate I need for it. And they want their guns back?"
Haynes wasn't even sure what fulminate was.
"I know." He said sympathetically "but things have started to get relatively normal. Hattusa's not going to invade anytime soon and none of the other Hittites look like their going to attack."
"Yeah, and?" Maddox replied bluntly
"Well some of the others think that since things are calm now, that you holding onto their guns is a violation of their rights. You know second amendment and all that."
Personally Haynes thought they were being absurd but better someone bring it up rather than let the issue boil under the surface.
"That implies the Second amendment is still in effect in anyway shape or form." Maddox retorted
"I get that but a lot of people thought that Sanford's promise to restore America came with some certain basic guarantees."
"That was Sanford." Maddox all but spat the name "I've made no such promise. I'm not trying to build a new United states out here."
That caught Haynes off guard. Sure he had been under no delusion that democracy and anything resembling a republican government would be put in place anytime soon but he had assumed Maddox eventually wanted to recreate the United States to at least some degree.
"You aren't?" Haynes questioned "Why not?"
"Well for starters. The moment we declare ourselves the rightful government of the United States of America, every American-born president, dictator, supreme leader, high chairman and King is going to think they have a target painted on their back. That sooner or later we're going to try and reunite the lost sons of Tucson. We already have a big enough enemy with Sanford, I don't need to be making more." Maddox explained
That was a fairly reasonable point
She went on "And you just demonstrated the second point. Acting like we're the United States carries with it expectations. People want us to adhere to a constitution and laws that functionally only exist in our memories now. I promised you guys a democratic government within a reasonable time frame, I didn't promise anyone I would restore the Bill of Rights. I'm not letting them waste what little ammo we have because of 'muh rights'. America is dead, and I won't be shackled by it's flaws. We need to start over and build a state more suitable for our time period"
"What kind of state is that?" Haynes asked
"Well for starters one strong enough and flexible enough to survive the mess we've created." Maddox answered
Poor Madox.
It's not 'muh rights' its "give me back MY property you borrowed".
I hope she realizes quickly what it means in this era to be considered a liar and thief ,not just on the international arena but by her own people while in the middle of an occupation and surrounded by a hostile populace.
If she wanted to phrase it in terms they'd recognise, she could always call the seizure "eminent domain" or "seized for purposes of national security." Those lines work in present day, I can only imagine how much more importantly they apply that far back in time.
