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I mean, I get the impression that Garden Lily as a separate entity from Perplex is entirely fictitious (she's a persona that Perplex adopted and got herself hired as, rather than somepony that Perplex replaced).

This seems a lot more common in general than Changelings just replacing ponies entirely- which, based on what they see of them, they're actually pretty bad at.

Its much simpler to just come up with new identities to do slow infiltration than it is to completely take over someone's life and have to pretend to be them.
 
I really hope this story is going in a different direction with the Changelings than the show eventually did. Why the showrunners thought that a species that shares food and never gathers any more without all starving to death made sense is a mystery.

Well, I suppose they didn't have to think much of it, since it's aimed at kids.

There's a fic I love called "Why Are You Here, Your Majesty" where Chrysalis and Celestia talk. In that one, Chrysalis intentionally doesn't treat her subjects well because if they grow to love her, they'll be more likely to starve because they won't have enough love left for themselves. And if any of them get it into their heads to start sharing love, Chrysalis has never been able to stop it, and then they all starve, and Chrysalis loses another hive.

The mechanics of a race that eats love is fascinating when I think about it.
 
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I really hope this story is going in a different direction with the Changelings than the show eventually did. Why the showrunners thought that a species that shares food and never gathers any more without all starving to death made sense is a mystery.

Well, I suppose they didn't have to think much of it, since it's aimed at kids.

There's a fic I love called "Why Are You Here, Your Majesty" where Chrysalis and Celestia talk. In that one, Chrysalis intentionally doesn't treat her subjects well because if they grow to love her, they'll be more likely to starve because they won't have enough love left for themselves. And if any of them get it into their heads to start sharing love, Chrysalis has never been able to stop it, and then they all starve, and Chrysalis loses another hive.

The mechanics of a race that eats love is fascinating when I think about it.
I can't say I love the changed aesthetics of the changelings in later seasons but the other changes make a decent amount of sense. In a universe where Friendship is key to magic, why would Love be something anyone can run out of? That's not how it works. You can get tired, your feelings might change over time or whatever, but a Changeling feeding on someone doesn't stop that person from loving people.

I also dislike justifying Chrysalis abusing her subjects/children because the message of 'just because they look/act different doesn't mean they're evil and must be destroyed' is very obvious once Chrysalis stops being the main changeling character.
 
I can't say I love the changed aesthetics of the changelings in later seasons but the other changes make a decent amount of sense. In a universe where Friendship is key to magic, why would Love be something anyone can run out of? That's not how it works. You can get tired, your feelings might change over time or whatever, but a Changeling feeding on someone doesn't stop that person from loving people.

I also dislike justifying Chrysalis abusing her subjects/children because the message of 'just because they look/act different doesn't mean they're evil and must be destroyed' is very obvious once Chrysalis stops being the main changeling character.

If love is something you can't run out of, then why would Changelings have ever come into existence in the first place? Why would they ever starve? They could just love each other from the beginning.

But that isn't the case. They seek out love from other races because they have to.
 
If love is something you can't run out of, then why would Changelings have ever come into existence in the first place? Why would they ever starve? They could just love each other from the beginning.

But that isn't the case. They seek out love from other races because they have to.
Do they have to? Or does Chrysalis control everything about their education and civilisation so she can get what she wants, with little regard for her subjects?
 
Do they have to? Or does Chrysalis control everything about their education and civilisation so she can get what she wants, with little regard for her subjects?

If she can get love from her own subjects, why wouldn't she? Why would she get love from other races if she can get it from her own? Sharing love within the species makes no sense because, if it was true, then Chrysalis would get more powerful by treating her subjects well. That's the entire point of love.
 
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Trying to pin every bad thing every Changeling has ever done on Chrysalis alone feels... cheap, to me.

(Frankly I think its more interesting if Chrysalis isn't the only Changeling Queen.)
 
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Trying to pin every bad thing every Changeling has ever done on Chrysalis alone feels... cheap, to me.

(Frankly I think its more interesting if Chrysalis isn't the only Changeling Queen.)

It creates a different dynamic, but it goes against the established understanding of how race leaders work in the show, since for the longest time Celestia ruled pretty much, if not all, ponies by herself.

I think different hives by different leaders with slightly different methodologies could be interesting, but it also complicates the narrative. It's hard to get it right.

The big problem I have is introducing information that makes a character a complete idiot. Chrysalis would have to be incredibly idiotic to rule the way she does if there was a way to rule that not only made her subjects happier but also made her more powerful and more beloved. A story that's based on a character being idiotic for years on end without ever coming up with a better idea feels, as you said, cheap.
 
I really hope this story is going in a different direction with the Changelings than the show eventually did. Why the showrunners thought that a species that shares food and never gathers any more without all starving to death made sense is a mystery.
It isn't just sharing. It is production of food, of love.

When a changeling feels love for another changeling it doesn't use up or deplete the changeling's store of taken love. It produces its own love.
If love is something you can't run out of, then why would Changelings have ever come into existence in the first place? Why would they ever starve? They could just love each other from the beginning.

But that isn't the case. They seek out love from other races because they have to.
Why would anything come into existence in the first place? You could blame Discord, Harmony, Hasbro or any number of causes for why changelings are the way they are. Maybe changelings originally arrived from another dimension. Maybe they are some weird magical experiment. Maybe Chrysalis has genetic defects.
 
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It creates a different dynamic, but it goes against the established understanding of how race leaders work in the show, since for the longest time Celestia ruled pretty much, if not all, ponies by herself.

I think different hives by different leaders with slightly different methodologies could be interesting, but it also complicates the narrative. It's hard to get it right.

The big problem I have is introducing information that makes a character a complete idiot. Chrysalis would have to be incredibly idiotic to rule the way she does if there was a way to rule that not only made her subjects happier but also made her more powerful and more beloved. A story that's based on a character being idiotic for years on end without ever coming up with a better idea feels, as you said, cheap.
Chrysalis is an idiot in the same way Sunset Shimmer is an idiot. She regards love as something she eats instead of something she feels, only thinks of her followers in how they can serve her and thinks she can hijack the Elements of Harmony with evil clones of the Mane 6.

She doesn't have the same values as the main characters or us and it shouldn't be a shock that she considers revenge and being a dick more important than her subjects being happy.

Sunset Shimmer grew up in Canterlot next to Celestia and never took friendship serious enough to make any friends.
 
This is an absolutely amazing story, and so well written. The moment I finished I started poking my partner and some friends about reading it, and ... you know what I'm just going to copy what I texted my partner. XD

Just read an unironically glorious My Little Pony fanfic about Sunset Shimmer (from context I gather this is Princess Celestia's former student, prior to Twilight Sparkle, who failed to make friends and became resentful and hateful and became a big bad later in the series who had to be talked down).
Specifically it's about about how Sunset Shimmer summons an Outsider who, thank fuck, is more like the King In Yellow than Shub-Niggurath and would rather give Sunset Shimmer what she wants and watch it play out than turn people inside out.
However what Sunset Shimmer wants is ascension to alicorn status, which fundamentally (no workarounds, no shortcuts, no substitutions) requires total spiritual alignment with capital-H Harmony at the same time a number of other conditions are meant.
The Voice of Inadvisable Dreams can tweak most of the other requirements, but not that one.
So to fulfill Sunset Shimmer's wish ... this Outsider is going to have to help her make friends.
It's actually an incredibly good meditation on how childhood neglect can make it impossible for some people to recognize when someone loves them unconditionally, and how people in that situation can tear themselves apart trying to satisfy nonexistent conditions for other's love and also hurt their loved ones very badly when they lash out because their self-destructive efforts don't result in a change in how others treat them.
Also on how even the nearly utopic society of My Little Pony is a constant work in progress and ultimately a goal, not a default state of being.
I wholeheartedly recommend this.
 
Chrysalis is an idiot in the same way Sunset Shimmer is an idiot. She regards love as something she eats instead of something she feels, only thinks of her followers in how they can serve her and thinks she can hijack the Elements of Harmony with evil clones of the Mane 6.

She doesn't have the same values as the main characters or us and it shouldn't be a shock that she considers revenge and being a dick more important than her subjects being happy.

Sunset Shimmer grew up in Canterlot next to Celestia and never took friendship serious enough to make any friends.
The difference is that Chrysalis is directly empowered by love and knows this while Sunset would be more ephemerally empowered by friends and doesn't think it's worth it. "Only thinks of her followers in how they can serve her" they can serve her by making the thing she eats which will directly empower her, this isn't a lessen in teamwork making them better than they are individually this increases her own personal combat ability.
 
The difference is that Chrysalis is directly empowered by love and knows this while Sunset would be more ephemerally empowered by friends and doesn't think it's worth it. "Only thinks of her followers in how they can serve her" they can serve her by making the thing she eats which will directly empower her, this isn't a lessen in teamwork making them better than they are individually this increases her own personal combat ability.
And yet Chrysalis gloats about starving her subjects of love in her second or third appearance right in front of said subjects, leading to them turning against her. She doesn't want them to be happy, she doesn't want a perfect optimised love farm that brings everyone peace and prosperity. She wants to be top dog, served by endless loyal minions and for everyone else to suffer.
 
If love is something you can't run out of, then why would Changelings have ever come into existence in the first place?
Why would anything come into existence in the first place? You could blame Discord, Harmony, Hasbro or any number of causes for why Changelings are the way they are. Maybe changelings originally arrived from another dimension. Maybe they are some weird magical experiment. Maybe Chrysalis has genetic defects.
Chrsyalis, as the first Changling, was was born from a carnivorous plant in a magical pond that fed on insects and bones. No, I don't see how the hell that resulted in the Changling race either. But what you have to understand is-
And yet Chrysalis gloats about starving her subjects of love in her second or third appearance right in front of said subjects, leading to them turning against her. She doesn't want them to be happy, she doesn't want a perfect optimised love farm that brings everyone peace and prosperity. She wants to be top dog, served by endless loyal minions and for everyone else to suffer.
Yeah, that. Chrysalis doesn't want what's best for her children or the optimal way to rule, she just wants to rule the world and make it how she wants it; in this case, that's every nonChangling acting as a servile food supply, with all of her children grovelling underneath her. If nothing else, her rather random origin does do a bit to explain why her behavior is extremely... unoptimized, for gathering food. Her species was born to be loved, and yet she almost abhors the concept.
 
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IIRC the comics are of dubious canonicity, so that might not be her actual origin in this story.
The idea would be the same, though. If Changelings didn't evolve, it goes a long way to explain why their society is so bad and unoptimal. They simply didn't have the instincts to guide them. And being stuck with Chrysalis as their ruler for as long as their species existed, they don't have the mechanisms to explore other forms of societal order.
 
As a general non-fan of MLP, who only knows about changelings from what's been posted in this thread, I've been assuming this whole time that changelings can only be nourished by love from non-changelings. Because the alternative is…well, there's evil-makes-you-stupid, and then there's that. It's so titanically stupid that it was literally unthinkable, as in it never occurred to me.

Although, as I was typing that, I realized that that would mean disguised changelings have a pretty good way of detecting each other, which doesn't really fit with some of the things Perplex was just thinking. :confused:
 
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