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HomuHomu's Bizarre Adventure: The World's End [PMMM/JJBA/Nasuverse/Dead]

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@HymnOfRagnarok
RexHeller said:
I bet Cain would have a pretty high murder score to if he was summoned as a servant and he only killed one guy. The thing about servants is that the legend is more important then what they actually did.
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This is literally the most important thing in the formation of a heroic spirit.
And AGE IS NOT THE END ALL BE ALL. It is a factor, but less important that the content of the legend itself. It is linked to fame as well, Gilgamesh is powerful not really because he is old, but because most of the world knows his legend, and his legend portrays him as this archetypal entity. In his legend, Gil really is as good as his ego makes him out to be, thus his heroic spirit has to be at least as awesome.
The entire western world and a good portion of the Asian countries know who Jack is, and while she should be less powerful than a literal demigod master of being awesome(and a dick), she should reflect the caliber of her legend, the greatest serial killer. That means she should be good at murder. Like, crazy good even for a heroic spirit.
HymnOfRagnarok said:
...Also, given Gilgamesh was the first of all, Cain could quite possibly be a 'fake' Heroic Spirit like Medea and Herakles. Manufactured entirely out of nothing, but people believed they exist so they do on the Throne.
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LostDeviljho said:
you mean like Sasaki? Because Herculese and Medea were legit historical existences in Nasu.
As is Adam, so I'm inclined to believe so is Cain.
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Gil isn't the first heroic spirit, he just has prototypes of every noble phantasm made on Gaia due to his legend. It's honestly hard to time him in history, but he could easily be predated by biblical figures (Adam cough). Also, Medea and Heracles were normal Heroic spirits. Well Medea was a sort of anti-heroic spirit, but she is far from the only one. Medea's sister are also normal heroic spirits as of Grand Order as well, though all three are on the order of Divine Spirits, because of what they were.
 
Monotov said:
@HymnOfRagnarok

This is literally the most important thing in the formation of a heroic spirit.
And AGE IS NOT THE END ALL BE ALL. It is a factor, but less important that the content of the legend itself.
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*sighs*

Okay, I am not in the mood ti discuss how Asians generaly view history as cyclic, everything descending and getting worse but occasionally reversing to be a bit like the olden days where everything was better. You're gonna have to take my word on it for that, but that's more or less where the 'older is better' comes from. Age really is one of the defining, key factors.


Gil isn't the first heroic spirit,
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Yes he is. It's explicit in Fate route, I believe, and also shows up in expanded material. He is the first of all Heroic Spirits, the oldest of them all. He was deliberately chosen by Nasu for this, to be the oldest and therefore strongest.

LostDeviljho said:
cite please. I need to see this for myself.
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Working on it.
 
Oh, found it. She was made, not born, back in the Age of the Gods by human belief and desire, as a pseudo-divine spirit. She was not a human or a goddess, but functionally a manifestation of Gaia.
 
HymnOfRagnarok said:
Okay, I am not in the mood ti discuss how Asians generaly view history as cyclic, everything descending and getting worse but occasionally reversing to be a bit like the olden days where everything was better. You're gonna have to take my word on it for that, but that's more or less where the 'older is better' comes from. Age really is one of the defining, key factors.
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Then why is Arturia, much younger than him, equally bullshit? WHen she has Avalon. WHich is why she never has it.
 
Monotov said:
Then why is Arturia, much younger than him, equally bullshit? WHen she has Avalon. WHich is why she never has it.
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She isn't equally bullshit. She has Excalibur and Avalon, which are very haxx, but she can't match the absurdly massive and diverse armory of Gilgamesh.

See UBW's comparison of Saber fighting a battle, but Gilgamesh fights like a war. or something like that.
 
Monotov said:
Then why is Arturia, much younger than him, equally bullshit? WHen she has Avalon. WHich is why she never has it.
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And oh yeah, apparently it got revealed that Gilgamesh can in fact defeat Avalon. Somehow. Came out a lot later in side material.

Yeah, whatever you're feeling right about now is how I felt reading that. Gilgamesh gets the most wank.

Look to the Left said:
Are you referring to the conservatives? Because they didn't win the election.
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I have no idea, I'm just being a conspiracy nut.
 
Does the "age matters most for heroic spirits" thing matter in this crossover? There's so much crossover stuff going on.

LIke, I don't know much about Jojo, did ancient people have Stands? I know ancient magical girls existed. Wouldn't all that affect Fate stuff a ton?
 
pressea said:
Does the "age matters most for heroic spirits" thing matter in this crossover? There's so much crossover stuff going on.

LIke, I don't know much about Jojo, did ancient people have Stands? I know ancient magical girls existed. Wouldn't all that affect Fate stuff a ton?
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Not entirely sure on stands but they did have Mayan super vampires so yeah, guessing history is a lot different.
 
pressea said:
Does the "age matters most for heroic spirits" thing matter in this crossover? There's so much crossover stuff going on.

LIke, I don't know much about Jojo, did ancient people have Stands? I know ancient magical girls existed. Wouldn't all that affect Fate stuff a ton?
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I am fully expecting Heroic Spirits to bust out Stands, to be honest. Most have fighting spirit out the ass.
 
At this point, I don't think Fate knows how Fate works. Cause Avalon was invicible to everything because fairy bullshit.
Then Gil can get through it.
Ea is the ultimate attack. Then Karna with his Anti-god noble phantasm shows up.
And considering how messed up and confusing the idea of "God" is in the Nasuverse, who knows how strong Karna's god bolt is?
Fate is so awesome, but so full of wank.
God I loved Angel Notes.
 
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pressea said:
Does the "age matters most for heroic spirits" thing matter in this crossover? There's so much crossover stuff going on.

LIke, I don't know much about Jojo, did ancient people have Stands? I know ancient magical girls existed. Wouldn't all that affect Fate stuff a ton?
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You make a good point, I cant wait until we meet Magical Girl Enkidu-Chan.
 
Monotov said:
At this point, I don't think Fate knows how Fate works.
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Oh that's easy to describe.

You have a world full of normals.

Older normals are more awesome than new normals.

Everything has rules to follow.

Got that? Good.

The rules exist to be bent/subverted/broken by the badass, abnormal people that you are reading about.

And with each new installment, more and more exceptions are being written into the rules, and overwriting previous exceptions.

Hence, more and more complicated.
 
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God i fucking hate Nasu mechanics some time's. I always some how end up getting in arguments about them and when the argument is finally over all I'm left with is a headache and the realization that I will never get those hours of my life back.
 
HymnOfRagnarok said:
I am fully expecting Heroic Spirits to bust out Stands, to be honest. Most have fighting spirit out the ass.
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Actually, I didn't even thought of that, thanks for the idea!
pressea said:
Does the "age matters most for heroic spirits" thing matter in this crossover? There's so much crossover stuff going on.

LIke, I don't know much about Jojo, did ancient people have Stands? I know ancient magical girls existed. Wouldn't all that affect Fate stuff a ton?
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Funny story, I was seriously considering Ruler Tart but that idea got jossed since I never read tart magica and LD disliked the idea.
 
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