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Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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    • Good Seed and Omake Spreadsheet Rules:

    Firstly, if you have questions about Good Seeds and the like please read here. If that doesn't answer your question please ping me in thread, or on Discord.

    If you write a new Good Seed, or write an omake, please update the spreadsheet if you have access.

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    -----------------------

    Omake Writer Instructions:

    There are four fields you need to fill out.

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    • occipitallobe said:
    [ ] The Lesser Partner (-5 Benefits). The Yuan will cut off all others, and formally share it with the Golden Devils. Rather than the minor scraps they now receive, the treasures and gains to the Clan elites will make them into substantially greater powerhouses who can break through more easily. In practice this will mean a bonus of 200 or so extra Foundation cultivators a turn, as well as 3 more Core Formation cultivators. Can be taken with Righteous Ally.

    [ ] The Equal Partner (-12 Benefits). The Yuan will become a minor partner in the use of the Man-As-Mountain Array. The Clan will gain a majority share, allowing them to break through massively. In practice this will mean a bonus of 500 or so extra Foundation cultivators a turn, as well as 5 more Core Formation cultivators.
    Click to expand...
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    So the difference between The Equal and The Lesser partner is -7 Benefits for 300 (500-200) FB and 2 (5-3) CF cultivators a turn, or am I reading this wrongly? Should the Equal Partner be an effective 700 FB and 8 CF, for instance, or is it simply diminishing returns?
     
    Shard said:
    So the difference between The Equal and The Lesser partner is -7 Benefits for 300 (500-200) FB and 2 (5-3) CF cultivators a turn, or am I reading this wrongly? Should the Equal Partner be an effective 700 FB and 8 CF, for instance, or is it simply diminishing returns?
    Click to expand...
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    It's diminishing returns. Cutting off the Yuan's partners (and leaving the Yuan with their share) is less diplomatically difficult than having the Yuan relinquish a substantial part of their share.
     
    TehChron said:
    [] Plan Equal (snrk) Partners
    -[ ] Vassal of the Clan (-7 Benefits)
    -[ ] The Shining Legion (+2 Benefits).
    -[ ] First to Fight (+2 Benefits).
    -[ ] Closed-Door Cultivation (+4 Benefits)
    -[ ] A Council Ministry (+4 Benefits)
    -[ ] The Equal Partner (-12 Benefits)
    -[ ] Defense of the Homeland (+3 Benefits).
    -[ ] Preferential Spirit Stone Trade (+1 Benefits)
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I think I can broadly agree, except I think The Equal partner is overkill compared to The Lesser Partner.
     
    [X] Plan Together, Stronger
    -[X] Vassal of the Clan (-7 Benefits)
    -[X] The Shining Legion (+2 Benefits).
    -[X] First to Fight (+2 Benefits).
    -[X] Closed-Door Cultivation (+4 Benefits)
    -[X] A Council Ministry (+4 Benefits)
    -[X] The Lesser Partner (-5 Benefits)
    -[X] Defense of the Homeland (+3 Benefits).
    -[X] Legacy of the Bull (-3 Benefits)
    -[X] The Hunter Legions (-1 Benefits)

    Lets see the math...

    Kleisthenes is OP in Diplo (+3 Benefits)
    The Shining Legion (+2 Benefits).
    First to Fight (+2 Benefits).
    Closed-Door Cultivation (+4 Benefits)
    A Council Ministry (+4 Benefits)
    Defense of the Homeland (+3 Benefits).

    18 benefits

    Vassal of the Clan (-7 Benefits)
    The Lesser Partner (-5 Benefits)
    Legacy of the Bull (-3 Benefits)
    The Hunter Legions (-1 Benefits)
    -16 Benefits

    18-16=2.
    2 benefits left over, in favor of the Yuan.... hells, we could demand wealth once as well, but, well... im not sure, but i think this is good?

    Being the Equal Partner in M.A.M.A. is really tempting, and would be lore compatible with the clan as well, what with us nationalizing the cultivation resources, not to mention the extra 2 increase in silver core emergence.
    But this accomplishes our goal in cutting off the chosen ones already, so, why push it?
    It also help that going for Lesser frees up 7 benefits.

    I cut preferential treatment because its a good deal even without it, and well, why risk it?

    Edit: just realized but.... if we put back Preferential Trade, we could switch Homeland defender to Single War, and have mountaineers with our army without a time limit....

    So, any opinions on it?
     
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    [] Plan Benefits
    -[ ] Vassal of the Clan (-7 Benefits)
    -[ ] The Shining Legion (+2 Benefits).
    -[ ] First to Fight (+2 Benefits).
    -[ ] Closed-Door Cultivation (+4 Benefits)
    -[ ] Equal Terms (+0 Benefits)
    -[ ] The Lesser Partner (-5 Benefits)
    -[ ] The Single War (0 Benefits).
    -[ ] Preferential Spirit Stone Trade (+1 Benefits)

    I would prefer something like this. If we're going to take all the options that make the Yuan not bleed now, then we might as well leave room for them to bleed later.
     
    Is there any benefit to combining New Devils with formal vassalage that people see?

    It would be very expensive, but it would effectively make them part of the clan in the longer run.
     
    Something like this?

    [] Plan Expand the Clan
    -[ ] Vassal of the Clan (-7 Benefits)
    -[ ] The New Devils (-9 Benefits)
    -[ ] First to Fight (+2 Benefits)
    -[ ] Closed-Door Cultivation (+4 Benefits)
    -[ ] A Council Ministry (+4 Benefits)
    -[ ] The Lesser Partner (-5 Benefits)
    -[ ] Defense of the Homeland (+3 Benefits)
    -[ ] Blood Divination (+2 Benefits)
    -[ ] Nascent Corpses (+1 Benefit).
    -[ ] Foreign Aid Payments (+2 Benefits)
     
    The escalation of new FE and CF for getting Equal Partners is obscene and unmatched by anything we've seen in quest up to this point. Those extra Seven Benefits arent even strictly a full purchase, so there likely wont be a deal that good for boosting the growth of our upper ranks ever again. Plus itll leave the Yuan too weak to seriously jostle for concessions in the long term beyond what the Trial Lord can ask for.

    A purchase and a silverblood per turn is an insane boost to our current growth rates. We can't and shouldnt leave it on the table.

    [X] Plan Equal (snrk) Partners with Hunter Legions
    -[X] Vassal of the Clan (-7 Benefits)
    -[X] The Shining Legion (+2 Benefits).
    -[X] First to Fight (+2 Benefits).
    -[X] Closed-Door Cultivation (+4 Benefits)
    -[X] A Council Ministry (+4 Benefits)
    -[X] The Equal Partner (-12 Benefits)
    -[X] Defense of the Homeland (+3 Benefits).
    -[X] Foreign Aid Payments (+2 Benefits)
    -[X] The Hunter Legions (-1 Benefits)

    This version gives up the Horns, and essentially sacrifices all our naturally occurring purchases next turn, but in exchange ensures we'll make them back via Tribute payments and boosts our growth and capabilities in the mountains sufficiently that the only way the invasion could feasibly go through is if the NK Nascents and Ma Emperor endlessly hurl themselves into the teeth of the Yuan Clans defenses.

    It also keeps the Yuan Clan away from our deeper secrets.

    If we're forcing that invasion into a slower tempo, we couldnt ask for anything better, to be honest.
     
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    TehChron said:
    It also keeps the Yuan Clan away from our deeper secrets.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    only things that let them into secrets, that i could find are the council seat and the blood divination though?
    Like, whats the connection between Equal and Lesser Partners that is so secret? i only see bigger numbers, but not anything related to secrets...
    occipitallobe said:
    [ ] The Lesser Partner (-5 Benefits). The Yuan will cut off all others, and formally share it with the Golden Devils. Rather than the minor scraps they now receive, the treasures and gains to the Clan elites will make them into substantially greater powerhouses who can break through more easily. In practice this will mean a bonus of 200 or so extra Foundation cultivators a turn, as well as 3 more Core Formation cultivators. Can be taken with Righteous Ally.

    [ ] The Equal Partner (-12 Benefits). The Yuan will become a minor partner in the use of the Man-As-Mountain Array. The Clan will gain a majority share, allowing them to break through massively. In practice this will mean a bonus of 500 or so extra Foundation cultivators a turn, as well as 5 more Core Formation cultivators.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I admit, +300 FE and +2 Core, compared to Lesser's +200 FE and +3 Core is tempting, but nothing says in there anything about secrets, unless its loot.

    Or did you meant the Bull and whatever we could unravel by studying it?
     
    Like, I cant emphasize enough that Silverbloods are genuinely our real hope for matching the nameless numbers of Righteous Chosen should they attempt to make a move on us. They wouldn't win on a 1:1 basis, but so long as we can stall them out and beat them with superior mass combat discipline we should be able to hold out for long enough that our own Good Seeds can make the difference.

    We just need to stall for time for one of our wincons to get off the ground. That's all we need. And part and parcel of that is ensuring that any attempts to gank us properly are a grind rather than a shank.

    The Silverbloods are our only reliable ablative in that scenario

    The Technique Palace let's us get our Core Formations up to parity with the rest of the region, so they can serve as speed bumps at least. But the Silverbloods are exceptional and numerous. That's an advantage we need to press.
     
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    [X] Plan Equal (snrk) Partners with Hunter Legions

    We need more cores to make (even more) formations that can hurt NS and we could use hunters to help the Devils with legions that are good in mountains fights. So, I with you guys on this one :D
     
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