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Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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    • Good Seed and Omake Spreadsheet Rules:

    Firstly, if you have questions about Good Seeds and the like please read here. If that doesn't answer your question please ping me in thread, or on Discord.

    If you write a new Good Seed, or write an omake, please update the spreadsheet if you have access.

    If you do not have access, please ping a collaborator (Swordomatic, Alectai, Quest, TehChron, Insane-Not-Crazy, Humbaba, ReaderOfFate, Kaboomatic, no., BungieONI) letting them know what you want and they will update the spreadsheet here. To gain access, you will need a gmail account of some kind. Throwaway emails are fine (I'm using one for the spreadsheet), but to gain access it's as simple as sending me either your email via PM, via DM in Discord, or just in Discord's #spreadsheet-requests channel.

    This is mandatory. If a Good Seed does not record their omake by pinging collabs (or just requesting access and editing things themselves - this is the preferred option), I won't give out awards. If a new Good Seed is not recorded here, they won't advance. By doing this it makes the whole thing manageable for me - it's gotten pretty unwieldy!

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    Omake Writer Instructions:

    There are four fields you need to fill out.

    Omake Link, which is just a link to your first omake for the turn. This makes it easier for me to read them as I do the update - without this it's tough to know off the bat which omake were written this turn, and to properly

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    • [X] Got Me A Corpse

    This lets us destroy them when they're weak. Why trade for land now, when we can take the land later?

    We don't want a permanent peace with the cannibals, they disgust us.
     
    occipitallobe said:
    In Manuel's mind, this basically boils down to 'the Oasis Rebels rule a more fertile land naturally and the population grows more quickly'.
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    Could we have an array to subtly reduce the natural fertility in the long term without significantly harming the mortals who currently live there? Reducing the long term growth rate and prospects without harming anyone in a mortal lifespan should be possible with some careful work.
     
    Robotninja said:
    Could we have an array to subtly reduce the natural fertility in the long term without significantly harming the mortals who currently live there? Reducing the long term growth rate and prospects without harming anyone in a mortal lifespan should be possible with some careful work.
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    It'd be pointless, and also probably beyond what our Array guys can do discreetly.

    Mr. Prokosch said:
    [X] Got Me A Corpse

    This lets us destroy them when they're weak. Why trade for land now, when we can take the land later?

    We don't want a permanent peace with the cannibals, they disgust us.
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    We're still obligated not to fight directly. The impression I get from "Got the Corpse" is that Manuel isn't at serious risk in the fight, and that he's still allowed to do shadowruns on the Blood Cannibals even if he can't pick a fight directly. The problem is that the Devil Bees are winding up for a go at us sometime in the next 40 years and we need to be able to take them head on if it comes to that.
     
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    Robotninja said:
    Hurting the cannibal long term viability is far from pointless, and it costs us nothing to ask.
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    The problem is that it's also against our Clan's code of honor with regards to mortals, and going against core values tends to be the first step to getting snuffed out in this kind of setting. Yes it hurts the Blood Cannibals if it's done right--but it hurts the mortals who they feed on even more

    This isn't some game where the winning choice is to race the other side to the bottom on an atrocity-fest. It's about holding to your ideals even if the entire world tells you to give them up.
     
    Yeah, the real moneyshot would be the Jingshen Clan biting and holding onto that 10% chunk they've already occupied. Combined with our own territorial gains and as long as we can prevent the Blood Cannibals from causing too much trouble in our territory, we should have the advantage in the next go around.
     
    What I really hope, is that during the next round of trials, the new area lets us recover completely, so when the truce ends we can hit the Blood Cannibals a full strength
     
    Alectai said:
    The problem is that it's also against our Clan's code of honor with regards to mortals, and going against core values tends to be the first step to getting snuffed out in this kind of setting. Yes it hurts the Blood Cannibals if it's done right--but it hurts the mortals who they feed on even more
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    Not if done right. Because by limiting the supply of mortals, you force them to eat less mortals or risk starving. The black death caused a vast increase in the rights of peasants IRL because suddenly there were few enough that feudal overlords had to give them actual rights or lose them to lords who did.

    Besides, my plan is not to murder mortals en mass. Just to make it harder to increase their numbers long term.
     
    [X] Need Somewhere To Bury Him

    A small risk is necessary sometimes, but the land is useful. Even if it's not of great value to either of us, it's worth taking away as much of Old Cannibal's resources as we can, now. (EDIT: but not worth the risk of major injury to actually take everything we can)
     
    I got me a corpse is pretty useless, since the main benefit of Manuel having a free hand accomplishes nothing in that hundred year timeframe due to the Demonic Bees and the Hundred year trials eating up our capacity to act on the opening

    [X] Need Somewhere To Bury Him
     
    Great Greedy Guts said:
    [X] Need Somewhere To Bury Him

    A small risk is necessary sometimes, but the land is useful. Even if it's not of great value to either of us, it's worth taking away as much of Old Cannibal's resources as we can, now. (EDIT: but not worth the risk of major injury to actually take everything we can)
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    The real cost isn't the risk of getting fucked up, the real cost is letting his Core Formations act with near impunity in our territory.
     
    [X] Got Me A Corpse
    As I see it, slow encroachment is a strong way for us to proceed- we don't take ground quickly but what we take, we KEEP, and it is very very hard to take from us. The more we grab, the more clay we gotta defend, and having too much clay and trying to hold it all became a major headache for even Rome to deal with.
     
    Zaealix said:
    [X] Got Me A Corpse
    As I see it, slow encroachment is a strong way for us to proceed- we don't take ground quickly but what we take, we KEEP, and it is very very hard to take from us. The more we grab, the more clay we gotta defend, and having too much clay and trying to hold it all became a major headache for even Rome to deal with.
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    We're not exhibiting any serious signs of overextension yet though? If anything, we're actually doing pretty good because we've delegated the day to day business of most of our territory to our vassals, which means our core strength can be concentrated on things that matter--like occupying and securing new territory.

    Given the level of depopulation, what's actually happening is that we're going to build settlements around major resource veins and fortify the shit out of them, and expand as needed to support logistics. No more, no less.
     
    Alectai said:
    Yeah, the real moneyshot would be the Jingshen Clan biting and holding onto that 10% chunk they've already occupied. Combined with our own territorial gains and as long as we can prevent the Blood Cannibals from causing too much trouble in our territory, we should have the advantage in the next go around.
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    The beast outcome is that the Jingshen Clan would continue the war against the cannibal blood sect and the cannibal sect with one of its two borders secured will be able to use their full weakened might on the Jingshen Clan, either regaining their territory or making the Jingshen Clan bleed for new ones, the worst outcome is that the Jingshen Clan is able to use the weakness of the cannibal sect and take a vast amount of land, we need to remember that while the Jingshen Clan isn't an enemy they aren't our friends either.
     
    uri said:
    The beast outcome is that the Jingshen Clan would continue the war against the cannibal blood sect and the cannibal sect with one of its two borders secured will be able to use their full weakened might on the Jingshen Clan, either regaining their territory or making the Jingshen Clan bleed for new ones, the worst outcome is that the Jingshen Clan is able to use the weakness of the cannibal sect and take a vast amount of land, we need to remember that while the Jingshen Clan isn't an enemy they aren't our friends either.
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    True enough. Of course, we should keep in mind that there's nothing in the deal obligating us to keep quiet if Old Cannibal gets wounded in the upcoming fight.

    At least, I don't think there'll be.
     
    Alectai said:
    Yeah, the real moneyshot would be the Jingshen Clan biting and holding onto that 10% chunk they've already occupied. Combined with our own territorial gains and as long as we can prevent the Blood Cannibals from causing too much trouble in our territory, we should have the advantage in the next go around.
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    Manuel is aware Jingshen Clan aren't really interested in taking more territory. Their core mines are so absurdly wealthy that they're likely to just salt the earth, poison wells, and leave - basically giving themselves a buffer against the Cannibal Sect which will take them decades if not centuries to recover from. They pretty much offered a limited invasion to be able to secretly transport (and avoid tariffs on) a Nascent Soul treasure for exchange. Losing ten or fifteen thousand Qi Condensation juniors doesn't compare to a Nascent Soul treasure you really want.

    In terms of long-term desires, Manuel knows Jingshen Clan doesn't need to expand at all. Their core interest is to be able to save up enough to be able to support 3 Mid Nascent Souls for a few centuries, a number which would allow them to easily conquer most of the desert - allowing them to avoid Cannibal raids and Clan tolls. They're not interested in minor gains so much as they are interested in turtling to the point where they can just dunk on everyone in the desert and take the entire thing in one fell swoop.
     
    occipitallobe said:
    Manuel is aware Jingshen Clan aren't really interested in taking more territory. Their core mines are so absurdly wealthy that they're likely to just salt the earth, poison wells, and leave - basically giving themselves a buffer against the Cannibal Sect which will take them decades if not centuries to recover from. They pretty much offered a limited invasion to be able to secretly transport (and avoid tariffs on) a Nascent Soul treasure for exchange. Losing ten or fifteen thousand Qi Condensation juniors doesn't compare to a Nascent Soul treasure you really want.

    In terms of long-term desires, Manuel knows Jingshen Clan doesn't need to expand at all. Their core interest is to be able to save up enough to be able to support 3 Mid Nascent Souls for a few centuries, a number which would allow them to easily conquer most of the desert - allowing them to avoid Cannibal raids and Clan tolls. They're not interested in minor gains so much as they are interested in turtling to the point where they can just dunk on everyone in the desert and take the entire thing in one fell swoop.
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    Hah, of course.

    Still, I'll take it, that added pressure went a long way towards making this deal happen in the first place--and it's a damn good deal for us. They did most of the dying while we're getting a good chunk of clay and a lot of territory got denied the Blood Cannibals thanks to the Jingshen's own poke. Them transporting a Nascent Soul Treasure without us getting a cut is a bit meh, but it is what it is, we still profitted considerably--and we'll be in a good position to handle the Devil Bees shortly.
     
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    Alectai said:
    Still, I'll take it, that added pressure went a long way towards making this deal happen in the first place--and it's a damn good deal for us. They did most of the dying while we're getting a good chunk of clay and a lot of territory got denied the Blood Cannibals thanks to the Jingshen's own poke. Them transporting a Nascent Soul Treasure without us getting a cut is a bit meh, but it is what it is.
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    We probably got off better in that deal, the tariff on the treasure would have being a big onetime payment and in exchange we got the weakening of one of our enemy's with minimal casualties , a 10% boost to the income of the clan (that will probably become bigger when the lands we got start recovering) not to mention the body of a nascent soul cultivator, the treasures in his soul and the storage items we can make and sell from his body will probably make the tariff we would have off the treasure a couple of times over (I mean his body was worth ten wealth, that is one hundred years of income for our clan).
     
    Yep. Jingshen made off like bandits, but so did we--exactly how a fair bargain should be made!
     
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