Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

[occipitallobe]

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[Katana1515]

IIRC our vassals get the best possible deal from us most of the time, a make or break war with the Cannibals is exactly the type of situation where we should lean on them heavily?

Saying that I think our requests should focus on the top end. We would probably benefit more from Core Formation and Foundation Establishment auxilleries, since the Qi Condensers won't benefit from our focus on formation tactics and could just become Cannibal Food.

 

[Uhtread]

[X] Plan All In

 

[Rakuhn]

[X] Plan All In

 

[AlphaDelta]

ty!

[X] Plan All In
- Hong Xuan Clan
-[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
-[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
-[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
-[x] Front Line Deployment
-[x] Land.
-[x] Wealth.
-[x] Favour
- Simmering Soup Sect
-[x] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
-[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
-[x] Wealth.
-[x] A Favour.

Click to shrink...

I'd actually format it like so (Add X's in brackets):
[ ] Plan All In
-[ ] Hong Xuan Clan
--[ ] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
--[ ] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
--[ ] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
--[ ] Front Line Deployment
--[ ] Land.
--[ ] Wealth.
--[ ] Favour
-[ ] Simmering Soup Sect
--[ ] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
--[ ] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
--[ ] Wealth.
--[ ] A Favour.

In general, you want to organize your votes by using additional subvotes and sub-subvotes and sub-sub-subvotes as necessary.

---

Anyway, now that that's settled:

I'm against plan All In. Why? It costs favors, and Manuel's action is perhaps the single most important "spot check" tool that we have. Not only that, but it costs two favors. Everything else is scalable with time, but not action economy.

 

[Liliet]

IIRC our vassals get the best possible deal from us most of the time, a make or break war with the Cannibals is exactly the type of situation where we should lean on them heavily?

Saying that I think our requests should focus on the top end. We would probably benefit more from Core Formation and Foundation Establishment auxilleries, since the Qi Condensers won't benefit from our focus on formation tactics and could just become Cannibal Food.

Click to shrink...

Our Qi Condensation can cover from their Qi Condensation. Foundation Establishment can't be everywhere at the same time, and the key objective we'll be fighting over is protecting mortals.

I'd actually format it like so (Add X's in brackets):
[ ] Plan All In
-[ ] Hong Xuan Clan
--[ ] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
--[ ] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
--[ ] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
--[ ] Front Line Deployment
--[ ] Land.
--[ ] Wealth.
--[ ] Favour
-[ ] Simmering Soup Sect
--[ ] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
--[ ] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
--[ ] Wealth.
--[ ] A Favour.

In general, you want to organize your votes by using additional subvotes and sub-subvotes and sub-sub-subvotes as necessary.

Click to shrink...

Well, it's not technically a subvote, so I like mine, but yea, thanks!

Anyway, now that that's settled:

I'm against plan All In. Why? It costs favors, and Manuel's action is perhaps the single most important "spot check" tool that we have. Not only that, but it costs two favors. Everything else is scalable with time, but not action economy.[/hr]

Click to shrink...

What do you propose instead though? Leaving out some of the requests? Leaning on the vassals to the point of dangerous unrest? Giving in on stuff that'll weaken us in the long run? If first, what would you leave out?

 

[Liliet]

More options!

[X] Plan All In
- Hong Xuan Clan
-[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
-[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
-[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
-[x] Front Line Deployment
-[x] Land.
-[x] Wealth.
-[x] Favour
- Simmering Soup Sect
-[x] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
-[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
-[x] Wealth.
-[x] A Favour.

[X] Plan All In But We're Assholes
- Hong Xuan Clan
-[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
-[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
-[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
-[x] Front Line Deployment
-[x] Land.
-[x] Wealth.
-[x] Favour
- Simmering Soup Sect
-[x] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
-[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
-[x] Wealth.

[X] Plan All In Without Foundation
- Hong Xuan Clan
-[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
-[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
-[x] Front Line Deployment
-[x] Land.
-[x] Wealth.
- Simmering Soup Sect
-[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
-[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
-[x] Wealth.
-[x] A Favour.

[X] Plan All In Without Foundation AND We're Assholes
- Hong Xuan Clan
-[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
-[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
-[x] Front Line Deployment
-[x] Land.
-[x] Wealth.
- Simmering Soup Sect
-[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
-[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
-[x] Wealth.

 

[RebelYell]

We should make a plan that has us shower them with boons without asking for anything!
Then we somehow win without their help anyway, the sheer bafflement would be legendary, I would love to see their faces if we can pull that off

 

[Katana1515]

[] Old Gold Calls For Aid!
- Hong Xuan Clan
-[] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
-[] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
-[] Front Line Deployment
-[ Wealth
-[ Wealth
- Simmering Soup Sect
-[ Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
-[ Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
-[ Unrestrict their trade to the north

This plan skips on the big mass of Qi Condensation level troops, but retains the big bonus from a fresh injection of top tier fighters. If things go the way we want the next thing that will happen is a big land grab of Cannibal territory and we can't have Manuel tied down renovating some petty emperors palace while we are racing Jingshen for the best Spirit Mines in the territory.

Our Vassals get less goodies this way, but it should still be enough to ensure compliance. The point of being the benevolent overlords is that we should be able to rely on them in clutch moments like this, particularly in a total war against a power that will literally eat them alive if we fail to oppose them.


EDIT: Voting for a similar but more popular plan. Left the bones of this one up for posterity.

 

[Juugo]

[X] Plan All In

 

[Liliet]

[X] Old Gold Calls For Aid!
- Hong Xuan Clan
-[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
-[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
-[x] Front Line Deployment
-[x] Wealth
-[x] Wealth

- Simmering Soup Sect
-[x] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
-[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
-[x] Unrestrict their trade to the north

This plan skips on the big mass of Qi Condensation level troops, but retains the big bonus from a fresh injection of top tier fighters. If things go the way we want the next thing that will happen is a big land grab of Cannibal territory and we can't have Manuel tied down renovating some petty emperors palace while we are racing Jingshen for the best Spirit Mines in the territory.

Our Vassals get less goodies this way, but it should still be enough to ensure compliance. The point of being the benevolent overlords is that we should be able to rely on them in clutch moments like this, particularly in a total war against a power that will literally eat them alive if we fail to oppose them.

Click to shrink...

I think you need to remove the empthy line in the middle?

Anyway, I don't like the "unrestrict the trade" thing because it means Jingshen will get stuff we previously had a monopoly on, and we'll get less of it / for worse prices because competitive market. It makes us weaker in the long run, says so right in the description.

I get that it's a "we're nice" option, but we don't have to be nice in our TRADE RESTRICTIONS in a world with BLOOD CANNIBALS.

 

[nothingtoseehere]

I like this version

[X] Plan All In But We're Assholes
- Hong Xuan Clan
-[x] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
-[x] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
-[x] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
-[x] Front Line Deployment
-[x] Land.
-[x] Wealth.
-[x] Favour
- Simmering Soup Sect
-[x] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
-[x] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
-[x] Wealth.

Saves us an action, makes us only mild assholes. If we get Cannibal then we'll get one of those wealth's cleared pretty much ASAP.

Also as a note - the vote options have these Allies commit 75% of their total strength to help us (from the clan overview screen the total commit are 75% of their total full stop). We are asking for huge commitments from them, no wonder they get a bit arsey.

 

[Katana1515]

I think you need to remove the empthy line in the middle?

Anyway, I don't like the "unrestrict the trade" thing because it means Jingshen will get stuff we previously had a monopoly on, and we'll get less of it / for worse prices because competitive market. It makes us weaker in the long run, says so right in the description.

I get that it's a "we're nice" option, but we don't have to be nice in our TRADE RESTRICTIONS in a world with BLOOD CANNIBALS.

Click to shrink...

Thanks! Hopefully it should work now!

I'm picking it less because its the 'nice' option as that its the one where the payment won't be noticeable until a ways down the line. We need to focus on getting through the next 5 turns first and foremost. This whole war is a big gamble, if we can break Old Cannibal and carve ourselves a big enough slice of his empire we should still come out ahead.

Not to mention all the boon's make us weaker in the future, whether its the opportunity cost of missing out on all the tasty wealth options and Nascent Soul actions or the wasted investment of giving up our land.

 

[Kingmally]

[X] Fair Trade
-[X] Hong Xuan Clan
--[X] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
--[X] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
--[X] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
--[X] Front Line Deployment
-[X] Boons
--[X] Land(2).
--[X] Wealth.
--[X] Favour.
-[X] Simmering Soup Sect
--[X] Core Formation Deployment (+6 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
--[X] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
-[X] Boons
--[X] Wealth.
--[X] Favour.

 

[Rakuhn]

[X] Fair Trade
[X] Plan All In

 

[DangerKitty]

[X] Fair Trade

 

[Raron]

[X] This is a unfair trade
-[X] Hong Xuan Clan
--[X] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
--[X] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
--[X] Favour
-[X] Simmering Soup Sect
--[X] Foundation Establishment Deployment (+1,500 Foundation Establishment Experts for the duration of the war)
--[X] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
--[X] Favour

Basically, the economic option. Favour from a Nascent soul gives far less bang for the bucks compared to other options. On the other hand it also removes a bit of our power in management of the clan. But it is the cheapest option.

We will have enough time to raise enough Qi condensation, and we already recovered some of them. They rise and fall in decades. We are actually good in numbers of Foundation Establisments. But little extra wouldn't hurt. This is also 3/4th of Qi Condensation disciples Hong Xuan clan has. And I'm actually curious will they send them all without Foundation Establisments.

It will reduce our relationships with the Clan and the Sect, but we can't really be choosers. We can't afford giving away Wealth or land. Nascent Soul actions and good relationships are the only thing we have left.


For people voting for Landx2, I'll note you are giving away our Golden Eye Array we just built. Because the land you are giving away is the land where it's currently under construction. That is a bad idea for several reasons.

 

[DangerKitty]

[X] This is a unfair trade

yeah i don't really wanna give the array away.

 

[Unstorpable]

[X] Plan All In But We're Assholes

I don't like Fair Trade, specifically because: 1. I really don't feel comfortable with giving up the entirety of the Burning Crags to a vassal that is already quite powerful, to say nothing of the lost economic and military opportunities, and 2. The time spent cashing in those two favors could be spent on damage recovery and ensuring we aren't wiped out. It feels like unnessary overkill when we're already going all in on favors. Are another two shinies really worth so much of our critical time? I don't think they are.

 

[Raron]

To people voting money, 10 Wealth is double of what a Nascent Soul can earn with 1 action (I think, I don't think we ever did that action uninterrupted). A entire clan focusing on it is just 5 Wealth. That is not including Manuel.

With 10 Wealth, we can rise up to 3-4 new Core Formations according to Year 100 turn.

With Wealth we have options. Not Nascent Soul options, but economical and intrigue options.

It is just not worth the sacrifice of opportunities lack of money would bring. Not to mention it strengthens our most powerfull vassals. Which is a pretty big problem. If it's Hong Xuan Clan, they could even raise their own Nascant Soul with enough cash. Which is a whole other problem I don't even want to touch.

 

[Anders]

[X] This is a unfair trade

 

[TimEd]

[X] Fair Trade

loss to action economy is painful, but this gives us the best flexibility for all levels aside from Manuel.

[X] Plan: Take what we need to win

 

[RebelYell]

[X] Reasonable Overlord
-[X] Hong Xuan Clan
--[X] Qi Condensation Deployment (+75,000 Qi Condensation disciples for the duration of the war)
--[X] Core Formation Deployment (+10 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
--[X] Elite Deployment (+2 Late Core Formation Elders, +1 Great Circle Elder for the duration of the war)
-[X] Boons
--[X] Land.
--[X] Wealth.
--[X] Favour.
-[X] Simmering Soup Sect
--[X] Core Formation Deployment (+6 Core Formation Elders for the duration of the war)
--[X] Soups and Spices (Losses among Foundation and above cultivators mitigated during the war).
-[X] Boons
--[X] Wealth.
--[X] Wealth.

Eh, I just don't want them to have reason to dislike us.
Were supposed to be benevolent anyway, so that's what I'm goin for with this. I guess it's more middle of the road but I don't feel that threatened by the cannibal's to ask for more from them when their givin us a good helping hand and when we've already prepped for the war.

Edit- Removed favor for simmering soup for more wealth, the crag's will pay for their pocket's when war's over.
Edit 2- Removed FB's from Hong Xuan replaced by Qi Condensation.

 

[Alectai]

Hmmm.

My gut feels like we want to trade Land and a Favor to Hong Xuan for their Elite Cores and Front Line Service, while we want to get Shimmering Soup's special stuff to mitigate our losses.

We might want to bulk up Qi Condensation too, but that should be backline stuff. Right now, we're not hurting for Foundation Establishment however.

I'll sleep on it I guess.

 

[occipitallobe]

The Xin Kingdom? Bunch of weaklings. Who cultivates an art that barely improves the body? Oh, their spells can be impressive, and their tricks with Qi interesting, but ultimately they're weak. Put a thousand sorcerers against a few maniples of Bronze and watch them scatter, hah!

Come here, Aspirant. Haha, it's ok. Our Darksouth Legion isn't one to impose too much on the newbies. Come and have a drink, for tomorrow we're heading south to reinforce the Xin lines. The war is on, you know. Not yet, but... well. In ten years those Cannibal fucks will shiver at the name Darksouth!

The Xin?

They don't do much trade. They're not very wealthy, and they're by far the weakest part of the Clan's vassals and allies who need to oppose the Cannibals. Mostly we do it for them.

So, let me tell you about them.

They're old-style sorcerers, the kind you hear about in storybooks. The ones who prefer to cultivate their Qi spells alone rather than their bodies. Turns out being able to cast powerful earth spells and the like doesn't matter when your enemies move ten times faster and just kill you with a fist. They do a little body cultivation, of course, but they're probably the weakest of all our vassals. There's a reason they're only in storybooks and not on the battlefield proper.

The Xin King is from the Line of Xin, a nothing line going back a few thousand years. Turns out some ambitious Core Formation sorcerer built five towers to harness the elements, a central one to gain the benefits of it all, and then left a family to claim the area once he died. They naturally squabbled like children, broke the tower, and retreated into the five towers to form their own lines. However, the magical fountain he built to help his cultivation still worked, and they figured out it was enough to support a single Core Formation cultivator. So they go round the circle - Wood, Fire, Water, and so on. Each time the old Core Formation king dies, his son or daughter marries the next Core Formation cultivator. Apparently by breeding all the Core Formation cultivators into their family over the last twelve hundred years they've managed to get into Mid Core Formation before they die each time. Nothing impressive, of course.

So.

Here, look at this map.

Over in the east are the Cannibals.

The Xin built a Shieldwall there, once. Got torn down lickety-split by a few annoyed Cannibal Elders. Now the New Shieldwall stands, each family of the Xin maintaining a fort. In reality it's mostly our forces down there, the Xin are useless in battle against proper cultivators. The intervening territory is called the Eastern Wastes, mainly because the Xin poisoned every well and salted every bit of fertile ground between them and the Cannibals to avoid any mortals being there to be killed by them. Normally it works for them, the Xin aren't a major target, usually. About two hundred and fifty thousand mortals live near the New Shieldwall, mainly traders and the like, bringing goods to supply our troops.

Nothing to say about the various forts. They're mostly manned by Optimatoi, with a few Foundation cultivators scattered from each family so the Xin can pretend they're doing something useful.

Alright, let's go around the various towers.

First is the Tower of Wood. You see the forest on the map? They raised that up, plenty of food there. Xin Kingdom has around three million mortals. One and a half live around the Tower of Wood. They're okay healers, and can raise a decent wall of trees, but absolutely useless in battle. Ten dedicated Cannibal Foundation Experts would run through that entire family like shit through a bull. Useless. Their little bamboo forest provides food and a few herbs, but... it's nothing special. Not a real defense at all.

Second, the Tower of Fire. Love their big flashy fire spells. Good against massed Cannibal formations. Ever seen a massed Cannibal formation? Course you haven't, but neither have I. Cannibals don't mass up, they spread out. Their massive spells do fucking nothing against a faster cultivator. Their big fire spiral is good, though. They resist temperature well, and Cannibals can't take the Tower of Fire without deploying a Core Formation elder at the least. Not like there's anything there worth taking. Bunch of old men pontificating on their 'Dao of Fire', trying to get to Core Formation. None of them ever will. No mortals here. Too damn hot.

Third is the Tower of Earth. Some idiot raised a massive stone flattop out of the ground, stuck a tower on it, and called it a day. Damn thing is six li high! If you can't fly, only way up is the stairs that spiral around. Let me tell you, it's a fucking rough climb. Current Xin King is an Earth one. They raise fortifications okay, and throw earth en masse, but fuck me dead if they're useless in combat. They have a good fort, though, and it'd be hard to take. Even Core Formations can't fly up there without special items, so they're easy to defend. High ground and all that. About a hundred and fifty thousand mortals here.

Fourth? Tower of Metal. Fuck, I hate these idiots. They're like the shittiest knockoff of the Blood of Bronze you ever saw. They saw what a proper bloodline looks like and tried to cultivate it. Not by adding a bloodline, just... cultivating metal. They can do weird shit and transform themselves and make magic metals and stuff, but you'd think they'd be okay in battle. They mostly just get run over. Refuse to use weapons. They're like body cultivators who didn't properly cultivate their bodies. Was deployed along with them chasing down some rebels sixty year back... me, and three other Qi disciples, all from the Tower of Metal. I swear the only thing they were good for was when I got the runs and stole one of their pretty jackets. Other than that, idiots. About a hundred thousand mortals here.

Lastly is the Tower of Water. These guys are useless in battle, but they're great at producing water in the desert. So, you know. I don't hate them. One million or so mortals live here. Lot of desert clans come here and move around. Pretty women, though I warn you off them. Why? Well... look. It doesn't matter, ok?

Why haven't we taken the Xin lands? You ask a lot of questions for a little baby Aspirant! Hahahaha! No, it's ok. So, there's fuck-all Spirit Stones there. They can produce their own Core Formation Elder, which is nice, and we couldn't do that with their marginal lands, so why bother taking them? Main thing is if the Cannibals thrust through, then-

Oh. Oh, the big tower in the middle. Calm down, newbie, we'll get to that.

The Bountiful Five Element Fountain. Basically it only flows every now and then, roughly every ten years. A Xin cultivator who drinks from it will get a big boost. Usually what happens is the old King gets old, and decides who's going to marry his daughter or son or whatever and decides on a new King. They drink enough to break into Core Formation just before the King dies, usually. If their King stops drinking it, they'll usually lose their cultivation in under a couple of decades, so you don't often see it outside of those situations. The tower atop it is where the King technically rules from, but nobody lives there. The Xin King rules from his family tower, although formally they rule from the Five Elements Tower for some reason.

Fucking sorcerers.

I tell you, newbie. Slept with one of them. Beautiful girl. I leave, and six months later... she claimed I was the father of her son! Her two-year old son who I met before I slept with her! Damn Legion ruled against me due to some document I signed when I was drunk. Don't sign things while drunk? Yeah, thanks Aspirant. You think I don't know that now? Anyway. I'm paying for the little brat for the next ten years! Don't sleep with them, newbie. Keep it in the Clan, like the Imperator intended.

Fucking sorcerers.

 

[Liliet]

...I can just picture this warrior... it's beautiful...