Hetairoi (No SV, You are a Companion of Alexander the Great)
- Thread starter Magoose
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[X] Alexander's Hetaroi
[X] Alexander's Hetaroi
Bwahahha..Omake Season.
What are our limits for Omakes? (Say for example, I have our MC collaborate with Alexander to create Chess in an Omake.)
[X] Alexander's Hetaroi
Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
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- California USA
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- He
Well the thing here that Philip may want to teach us as well, that we most likely will not learn...
We need to be as ruthless and pragmatic as he is, because otherwise, we will die.
It's not that she's a jerk... she just put all her hopes into Alexander, for he is the key to political power...Our mother's a jerk, though, no question.
We are not. And since she just ignored us for most of our life, there was... disconnect.
...
All I will say is that that depends...
If we excel, great... if we don't?
Well... maybe he won't be too mad.
Wholesome Alexander?
Hmm, is that even possible?
[X] Alexander's Hetaroi
In the Midst of Chaos, there is Opportunity
Do you really think you'd escape an omake from me?
Reminds me of a certain man from Corsica..A Compassionate (to his army at least) Man who is ruthless and also pragmatic when needed to be..
In the Midst of Chaos, there is Opportunity
You read through the military texts with utmost interest, the ways the other Hellenic states such as Athena and Sparta's use of the Phalanx intrigues you in how they were fought. One such example was during the Battle of Thermopylae, where the Spartans held formation along with their allies of a shield wall pushing back the Persians before being forced to fall back.
While it would be considered as a loss, it is also said the battle has stopped the Persian army's momentum from fully enveloping the Hellenic Cities, aside from some cities being burned down and captured before being liberated by Hellenic Armies.
You lean back on the chair you are seating on with a small frown on your face, being introduced just recently to Military training later than your brother mayhaps allowed you to have a much more innovative insight as the traditional doctrines hasn't yet been ingrained and thus allowing for a more creative direction to blossom in your mind.
For example..
Why did the Cavalry Groups of the other Greek armies have a more proactive approach instead of standing there essentially doing nothing but guard watch the flanks?
In your mind, you visioned the use of cavalry in a more proactive role. Instead of having the enemy phalanx prepared in great order, why not harass them with Companion Cavalry throwing javelins at them to incite chaos to allow the Foot Companions to dive in and eradicate the distracted enemy phalanx? Why not create a lure to have the enemy cavalry chasing after the companions away from their flanks while manoeuvring some Phalanx formations to envelop them at the sides?
In fact..why not utilise better mobility and speed to control the battlefield?
You shook your head, you didn't write the rules of war.
And thus, you wrote down what you were thinking about the underused potential of cavalry units in your journal, with some simple drawings of a horse rider throwing a javelin..
You narrowed your eyes as you didn't know how to be able to write down how your idealised mobile army should be formatted and how to utilise them to quickly defeat the army before deciding on just using blocks with images (and a small box on which image + box is identified) with arrows used to show which direction they are meant to go towards.
The entire thought experiment (now expressed into words and imagery) finished, your attention returns to more books and some scrolls based on the military history of the Hellenic City States, The Battles they fought, and how their armies conduct themselves.
But, you couldn't still shake away the feeling of discovering something new to not only Macedon, but to yourself.
A Paeonian Perspective of Pella
- Location
- Hawaii
A Paeonian Perspective of Pella
Pella was a big city with tall stone walls, unlike home. Bampas had come to fight for the King of Makedon, and brought him along to learn how the Hellenes waged war. Their pikes and horsies were really impressive making lots of men work together with strict discipline, especially watching the blocks of men moving smoothly in silence. But sometimes, you just need fighty courage and guile, as bampas says. That's why Makedon kept calling on the Agrianes when they had so many well-drilled men.
Bampas was sort of important, he guessed. He was the Logachos of one of the Agrianian lochoi in Pella. Bampas was always particular that an Agrianian lochos was more like the Spartan lochos than the Makedonian lochos. It never made sense to him though, didn't all the Hellenes of the south have the same sized lochos? Bampas explained that the big pike squares, the ones with the same number of men on each side, was called a syntagma, made of sixteen lochoi of sixteen men. The Spartan lochos numbered three hundred, like the bodyguard that accompanied King Leonidas at the Hot Gates all those years ago. That made some sense, but it was still silly that these southerners used the same word to talk about different things.
Bampas said that the way we Agrianes fought was called peltasts by the Hellenes. Skirmishing with javelins with a light shield, then fighting in close with one-handed weapons. Armor was an encumbrance that couldn't be afforded, but helmets might be used to protect against stray slingstones, if not lead slingshot. Bampas had a fancy kopis as part of his position as logachos, though he preferred the use of a hand ax for fighting. Something about the grip being way too small for his hand. 'Like a grip for ants!' he would always complain. Unlike bampas, his childish hand comfortably fit the grip.
Bampas was a great storyteller, when he wasn't shouting at warriors. His favorite tale was the Illiad, and the great warriors of the Achaeans. They were so different from the present day Hellenes of the south, who had torn each other down fighting among themselves. Bampas had actually named him the one of the heroes of the Illiad, Diomedes. A great warrior renowned for his skill, his might, and his courage, but also his humility. Where other heroes like Patroclus and even Achilles gave in to hubris, Diomedes knew his limits, even when besting Deities of the Dodekatheon like Aphrodite and Ares. But some of the warriors were starting to call him Drimysion, the severe little one, from his demeanor on the training field. Diomedes was tall and strong for his young age, but he was still no match for a blooded warrior in the sparring ring. Perhaps it would be a much more even match with a boy closer to his own age, but most children of Makedon were wary of their Agrianian allies, viewing them as stange barbarians, if useful ones. That was fine with him, Hellenes were all silly southerners to young Diomedes. Perhaps it would take a braver or kinder soul to interact with the Agrianian warrior in training.
Pella was a big city with tall stone walls, unlike home. Bampas had come to fight for the King of Makedon, and brought him along to learn how the Hellenes waged war. Their pikes and horsies were really impressive making lots of men work together with strict discipline, especially watching the blocks of men moving smoothly in silence. But sometimes, you just need fighty courage and guile, as bampas says. That's why Makedon kept calling on the Agrianes when they had so many well-drilled men.
Bampas was sort of important, he guessed. He was the Logachos of one of the Agrianian lochoi in Pella. Bampas was always particular that an Agrianian lochos was more like the Spartan lochos than the Makedonian lochos. It never made sense to him though, didn't all the Hellenes of the south have the same sized lochos? Bampas explained that the big pike squares, the ones with the same number of men on each side, was called a syntagma, made of sixteen lochoi of sixteen men. The Spartan lochos numbered three hundred, like the bodyguard that accompanied King Leonidas at the Hot Gates all those years ago. That made some sense, but it was still silly that these southerners used the same word to talk about different things.
Bampas said that the way we Agrianes fought was called peltasts by the Hellenes. Skirmishing with javelins with a light shield, then fighting in close with one-handed weapons. Armor was an encumbrance that couldn't be afforded, but helmets might be used to protect against stray slingstones, if not lead slingshot. Bampas had a fancy kopis as part of his position as logachos, though he preferred the use of a hand ax for fighting. Something about the grip being way too small for his hand. 'Like a grip for ants!' he would always complain. Unlike bampas, his childish hand comfortably fit the grip.
Bampas was a great storyteller, when he wasn't shouting at warriors. His favorite tale was the Illiad, and the great warriors of the Achaeans. They were so different from the present day Hellenes of the south, who had torn each other down fighting among themselves. Bampas had actually named him the one of the heroes of the Illiad, Diomedes. A great warrior renowned for his skill, his might, and his courage, but also his humility. Where other heroes like Patroclus and even Achilles gave in to hubris, Diomedes knew his limits, even when besting Deities of the Dodekatheon like Aphrodite and Ares. But some of the warriors were starting to call him Drimysion, the severe little one, from his demeanor on the training field. Diomedes was tall and strong for his young age, but he was still no match for a blooded warrior in the sparring ring. Perhaps it would be a much more even match with a boy closer to his own age, but most children of Makedon were wary of their Agrianian allies, viewing them as stange barbarians, if useful ones. That was fine with him, Hellenes were all silly southerners to young Diomedes. Perhaps it would take a braver or kinder soul to interact with the Agrianian warrior in training.
Here is my submission of a Severin-alike for Hetairoi. I asked @Magoose for permission for an idea I was cooking up, and here it is. Wrote most of this during the afternoon, then at dinner, paused as I attended a showing about Japanese-Americans in WWII, then finished afterwards.
The name is explained in the above omake. The -ion suffix is a diminutive, like Hephaestion, one of Alexander's companions. Bampas is Greek for papa, (as is papas, the root word for pope, but bampas has a certain flavor). Makedon is the Greek version (without using the Greek alphabet of course) of Latinized Macedon. The proud Hetairoi and Pezhetairoi of Phillip II of Macedon, reduced to "the pikemen and horsies," out of the mouth of children. It was attested that the phalanx could deploy and advance in silence, which would have been unnerving to witness.
The Agrianes or Agrianians were a Paeonian tribe that became allies of Phillip in 352 BC, and provided elite peltasts as auxiliaries to the phalanx. They were first picks for any detached duties, fighting on broken ground, or infiltration and assault of fortresses. I recall at least one account where the Agrianians stormed a fortress by scaling the cliff it stood on. Side note: Agrianian Axemen were my favorite unit in Total War Rome II when playing Macedon, because they could deal lots of damage with javelins, outpace heavy infantry, and tear pike formations apart with flank attacks. And compared to elite shock cavalry like the Companion Cavalry, they were dirt cheap and extremely versatile (you could use them to break down the enemy infantry line or soften up the cavalry while your Companions or Thessalians rekt their faces. As long as they didn't get caught in the open by melee or shock cavalry, or ran headlong into heavy infantry or pikes, they did well and were very cost effective.
Historically, the Macedonian army deployed with the phalanx in echelon, forcing their elite right flank to contact the weaker enemy left (armies typically deployed with elites on the right to counter formation drift (with shields on the left, formations tended to drift left as men sought protection from their left-hand neighbor's shield) and battles might begin to spiral clockwise if not countered by placing the best, most experienced troops to anchor the line), with weakest troops on the left) and create openings for the Companion Cavalry to strike into. The Agrianians held the position of honor to the right of the Companions, so as to screen their flank or support them by disrupting the enemy charge with a shower of javelins.
Then comes the confusion of what is a lochos and how big is it. The Macedonian army defined a lochos as a file of 16 men. Sixteen lochoi together formed the syntagma (lit. group/ can translate as battalion), the 256-man pike square, commanded by a syntagmarch (equivalent of a modern major). Four or five syntagma formed the taxis or taxeis (lit. order/ can translate as regiment) commanded by a chilliarch (lit. 1000 man commander, a modern colonel).
However, in most Greek city-states, notably Sparta, a lochos was a company of men. Sparta called up men for military service by age brackets, and if all were mobilized, a lochos would number 640 men. Older men were typically not called for service, so the lochos usually numbered 300. So yes, the typical lochos was the maximum number of troops that one of the two ruling kings of Sparta could legally take as a personal bodyguard. In the lead up to Thermopylae (literally, the Hot Gates), Sparta was holding a religious festival and being sticklers for tradition, could not and would not call up their military, even in the face of Xerxes' invasion. Thus, Leonidas rules-lawyered his way into taking a personal trip with the largest legally permitted bodyguard he could take, to illegally join the other Greek city-states at Thermopylae.
Slingers (best range, some armor piercing, fast fire rate), then peltasts (high damage, good ap, shields for skirmish survivability, ok as backup melee), were my favorite missile troops in TWR2 (Agrianian Axemen were classed as melee infantry that could freely fire javelins when not moving, so they don't count), archers were trash aside from Syrian and Cretan archers, but those were super expensive mercenaries, and you needed to play as Rome to get good value out of them through the regional auxiliary system. Later themed DLC bows became comparable for less cost, but that's paid power creep for you.
Obligatory Zoolander reference for something small. If you look at the grips/handles of ancient swords, they are downright tiny. I think only three of my fingers would fit inside the guard, maybe two-and-a-half for some. I've never seen a good explanation for this, excused as: "swords are sidearms" and "people had smaller hands back then." Ok, historical rant over. This author's not is almost twice as long as the omake itself, damn.
The name is explained in the above omake. The -ion suffix is a diminutive, like Hephaestion, one of Alexander's companions. Bampas is Greek for papa, (as is papas, the root word for pope, but bampas has a certain flavor). Makedon is the Greek version (without using the Greek alphabet of course) of Latinized Macedon. The proud Hetairoi and Pezhetairoi of Phillip II of Macedon, reduced to "the pikemen and horsies," out of the mouth of children. It was attested that the phalanx could deploy and advance in silence, which would have been unnerving to witness.
The Agrianes or Agrianians were a Paeonian tribe that became allies of Phillip in 352 BC, and provided elite peltasts as auxiliaries to the phalanx. They were first picks for any detached duties, fighting on broken ground, or infiltration and assault of fortresses. I recall at least one account where the Agrianians stormed a fortress by scaling the cliff it stood on. Side note: Agrianian Axemen were my favorite unit in Total War Rome II when playing Macedon, because they could deal lots of damage with javelins, outpace heavy infantry, and tear pike formations apart with flank attacks. And compared to elite shock cavalry like the Companion Cavalry, they were dirt cheap and extremely versatile (you could use them to break down the enemy infantry line or soften up the cavalry while your Companions or Thessalians rekt their faces. As long as they didn't get caught in the open by melee or shock cavalry, or ran headlong into heavy infantry or pikes, they did well and were very cost effective.
Historically, the Macedonian army deployed with the phalanx in echelon, forcing their elite right flank to contact the weaker enemy left (armies typically deployed with elites on the right to counter formation drift (with shields on the left, formations tended to drift left as men sought protection from their left-hand neighbor's shield) and battles might begin to spiral clockwise if not countered by placing the best, most experienced troops to anchor the line), with weakest troops on the left) and create openings for the Companion Cavalry to strike into. The Agrianians held the position of honor to the right of the Companions, so as to screen their flank or support them by disrupting the enemy charge with a shower of javelins.
Then comes the confusion of what is a lochos and how big is it. The Macedonian army defined a lochos as a file of 16 men. Sixteen lochoi together formed the syntagma (lit. group/ can translate as battalion), the 256-man pike square, commanded by a syntagmarch (equivalent of a modern major). Four or five syntagma formed the taxis or taxeis (lit. order/ can translate as regiment) commanded by a chilliarch (lit. 1000 man commander, a modern colonel).
However, in most Greek city-states, notably Sparta, a lochos was a company of men. Sparta called up men for military service by age brackets, and if all were mobilized, a lochos would number 640 men. Older men were typically not called for service, so the lochos usually numbered 300. So yes, the typical lochos was the maximum number of troops that one of the two ruling kings of Sparta could legally take as a personal bodyguard. In the lead up to Thermopylae (literally, the Hot Gates), Sparta was holding a religious festival and being sticklers for tradition, could not and would not call up their military, even in the face of Xerxes' invasion. Thus, Leonidas rules-lawyered his way into taking a personal trip with the largest legally permitted bodyguard he could take, to illegally join the other Greek city-states at Thermopylae.
Slingers (best range, some armor piercing, fast fire rate), then peltasts (high damage, good ap, shields for skirmish survivability, ok as backup melee), were my favorite missile troops in TWR2 (Agrianian Axemen were classed as melee infantry that could freely fire javelins when not moving, so they don't count), archers were trash aside from Syrian and Cretan archers, but those were super expensive mercenaries, and you needed to play as Rome to get good value out of them through the regional auxiliary system. Later themed DLC bows became comparable for less cost, but that's paid power creep for you.
Obligatory Zoolander reference for something small. If you look at the grips/handles of ancient swords, they are downright tiny. I think only three of my fingers would fit inside the guard, maybe two-and-a-half for some. I've never seen a good explanation for this, excused as: "swords are sidearms" and "people had smaller hands back then." Ok, historical rant over. This author's not is almost twice as long as the omake itself, damn.
- Location
- United States
hey hey it's the idea to utilize skirmish infantry. that can lead to a much less rigid formation and a better control of the battle field.
two things I do hope we figure out though is stirrups and saddles, we might not get the heavy cav charge but we can still have shock cav. though historical reenactors have proven that neither was really needed for a couched lance. so we'll have to see how we do while riding.
another advantage of cav is the ability to force the enemy into bad positions through the use of little war setting them up for alex to stomp
- Location
- Hawaii
A big part of why the Greek city-states made little or poor use of cavalry was a lack of cavalry tradition brought on by limited land. Most open flatland was tied up in agriculture or habitation, and the more marginal hills and mountains were pasture for goats and sheep. It's only when you get towards the plains of Boetia, Thessaly and Macedon that you start seeing strong cavalry traditions. Such tradition gets stronger as you go further northward into broader expanses of plains. While nobles owned enough land to raise horses, they were few and far between, comprising perhaps 50 to 100 members compared to the hundreds to thousands of citizen hoplites and psiloi skirmishers, and later, more professional or mercenary peltasts.
Sertorius
Rebellious Legate
- Location
- Roma Invicta
Thessaly actually made a name for itself thanks to it's excellent cavalry in Alexander's campaigns.
Greek hoplites are currently the Swiss mercs of their time. Ever since Marathon they have been hired out left and right by anyone in the Mediterranean, especially by Persia, by the thousands. There are of course peltasts, slingers and other troops, but it's the hoplites that Greece is famous for. Xenophon of the Ten Thousand fame, was still alive when Alexander was born and his campaign was a major inspiration for the young lad when he launched his invasion of Persia. Cavalry, even in the north, played second fiddle to Greece's strong infantry. With no saddles, nor stirrups, the lightly armed cavalrymen were easy to dismount and charging headlong into a heavily armored spear wall is always a bad idea. Philip knew this, hence he reformed not only his infantry, but also the riders as well into the famous hetairoi, giving them at least a fighting chance.
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Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
Alright, here are the Rewards:
[]All Warfare is Based on Perception (Increased Effectiveness of Macedonian Scouts)
[]No one thinks like that (Nepo and Alexander can now develop their own tactics in training)
[]Who's Journal is this? (Unknown Effect)
Rewards:
[]So... How many Horsemen did my Father Hire? (Philip has an even larger detachment of Cavalry from Panonia)
[]Friends are just people you haven't met yet (Increase chances for Nepo to meet Diomedes)
[]Father Knows best (Next Turn of Training, Philip will be there)
Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
By children, one must remember, that when things get started, Alexander will be a teenager, and Nepo will barely be older then a child.
That would be hilarious.
- Location
- Hawaii
[X]Friends are just people you haven't met yet (Increase chances for Nepo to meet Diomedes)
Moar frens!
Moar frens!
AoMythology
AoM, Destroyer of Worlds
- Location
- Greece
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Alexander's Hetaroi
