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Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

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Blackbeard is also really famous for doing the "lit fuses in his hair," which is memorable enough that you'd think your witness describing him would mention, and that might just be an unstated reason Taylor doesn't immediately jump to Blackbeard. Euryale really needed to be more detailed, huh?

I guess, to a goddess, we all kinda look the same, don't we?

Also, damn. I didn't think about tonnage when I was looking up the size of these ships, I was trying to look for what felt like more obvious markers, and the article I read said that ships didn't change that much in size between 16th and 19th centuries.
 
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What i found weird and a bit contrived is not the fact that they haven't guessed/assumed it's Blackbeard, but that they didn't even mention him as the most obvious possibility.

Every time one of them repeated the description Euryale gave: "black hair and a beard", i kept thinking, cmon, it's literally in his name AND he's the most famous pirate in history, at least one of you could remember about his existence. But nope, it could be anyone and we have absolutely no guesses...

As for the mysterious woman, idk. Many people already decided it's Medea, which a few things point towards, to be fair. But i feel that Adult Medea is too proud and confident (with good reason, considering she's one of the strongest Casters around) to act this way, nor does she seem to have any reasons to pretend. Had she openly supported Asterios, Chaldea would have been in a LOT of trouble and if she was there to kidnap Euryale, it would've already happened.

Medea Lily makes a bit more sense, but still not sure about that.
 
kyle53 said:
Personally I though it was Medea considering the skelly in the maze. If it is Emiya is going to flip.
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Taylor: "Glad that fight is over with but my First Aid isn't doing much for this wound, Mash. It might be cursed? Anyone here able to identify it or break it?"

Eurayle: "Hah, you need help with that? Not much of a mage are you? It's just a basic wound permanence curse. They're quite unbreakable without Med-uhh Calliope, however."

Taylor: "Well? You going to fix it Calliope?"

Mediope: "I still don't trust you."

Emiya: *Summons Rule Breaker* "Well since you're clearly not Medea you won't mind me using this? Great. C'mere Mash."

Medea: "WHERE DID YOU GET THAT?!"
 
neznaiu2908 said:
What i found weird and a bit contrived is not the fact that they haven't guessed/assumed it's Blackbeard, but that they didn't even mention him as the most obvious possibility.
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They do not jump on him precisely because it is the most obvious option among "Pirates that reached enough Infamy to be recorded in the Throne".

Between the previous Singularities and EMIYA being a Grail War veteran, everyone is slow to jump to conclusions because frankly after the whole "King Arthur is a woman" the whole idea of "easy identification via physical description" has been tossed down the storm drains.

Case in point, Fuyuki Fifth War Rider. Where in the blindfolded bombshell in nearly skin tight black and purple outfit do you see "Medusa", when the Most Commonly Know factors associated to her are "reptile-like skin, snakes for hairs, look in her eyes and you become a stone statue"?

It is only when she removes the blindfold and anything flesh and blood she looks on starts to become stone that the audience (and targets) start to think "Rider is Medusa".
 
MWKillKenny84 said:
"King Arthur is a woman" the whole idea of "easy identification via physical description" has been tossed down the storm drains.
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Atilla doubled down on it.
But i think real error is not lack of jump to Blackbeard, because when you ask for identifying features, lack of mention of fuses more or less excludes him.
Real error is not asking what flag he flies. I even forgive Taylor not asking, it's not her wheelhouse, but Drake? She should have.
 
The-Chained-One said:
all things considered, it's probably not an assassin as taylor mentioned, the fact chaldea can sense them, means it's probably magic that is hiding them, so a greek'ish spell caster would be my guess based on that alone, then add cloak, dragon tooth warriors, the height, the mistrust, the curse etc. it just kinda fits very neatly with adult medea. all except for the part where she claims to have influenced nations and such, so, either she is lying, which granted, medea, or this is someone else
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Lagoon12002 said:
I mean, she did murder and intimidate multiple members of royalty with the Argonauts, so she could be saying it as sort of an inside joke that killing people influences international policy.
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Medea did influence nations with her words and kill a lot of royalty. Like, a lot of Jason's achievements can be basically summed up as "Medea advised him to do this" or "Medea tricked his enemies with this and that". There was even a time when she convinced a king and his daughters to chop the king up into pieces so Medea would revive him young and new, but Medea basically went "Yeah, I don't think so" and left the daughters weeping at their willful murder of their own father.

Honestly given Medea chopped up her own brother as well as melted her own children through poison, man, she did kill a lot of royalty huh...
 
James D. Fawkes said:
Also, damn. I didn't think about tonnage when I was looking up the size of these ships, I was trying to look for what felt like more obvious markers, and the article I read said that ships didn't change that much in size between 16th and 19th centuries.
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Pretty sure that article was wrong. For example, the Golden Hind displaces about 300 tons, and is 100 feet long, 20 wide and floats in 9 feet of water. She carried a crew of 85, and was armed with 22 guns. Meanwhile, a warship from the 18th century, HMS Victory, displaces literally 100 times as much water, is twice as long, twice as wide, needs thirty feet of water to float, had a crew of 850 and was armed with 104 guns. Having been aboard both (well, a replica of the Hind) the difference is immense.

Not to say all ships were built that large in later days. Queen Anne's Revenge was a similar size (although I note that it wasn't 200 tons, it could carry 200 tons of cargo). Later ship construction techniques meant she could carry more crew and more guns however.

Unfortunately it was only really in the 19th century that people began using a singular measure for ship size (displacement), so it's not really possible to directly compare ships from different eras, unless we actually have them, or very good replicas.
 
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James D. Fawkes said:
Blackbeard is also really famous for doing the "lit fuses in his hair," which is memorable enough that you'd think your witness describing him would mention, and that might just be an unstated reason Taylor doesn't immediately jump to Blackbeard. Euryale really needed to be more detailed, huh?

I guess, to a goddess, we all kinda look the same, don't we?

Also, damn. I didn't think about tonnage when I was looking up the size of these ships, I was trying to look for what felt like more obvious markers, and the article I read said that ships didn't change that much in size between 16th and 19th centuries.
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Euryale giving literally the bear minimum description of her attacker, that she is literally running and hiding from and being almost absolutely terrified of, because she just doesn't care enough to even notice details like lit fuses in a man's beard and only focusing on how ugly and disgusting he was really does fit the perspective of such a vain goddess.

Further, if we assume Euryale is an old pre-Greek goddess, it makes sense that, even with a knowledge dump from a Holy Grail, she wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 14th century galleon and an 18th century Frigate even if there was a significant tonnage difference.

And actually, now that I'm looking at the characteristics of the two ships...wikipedia states that the GH had a 150 tonnage (essentially carrying capacity in the weight of tons), a water displacement of 300 tons, had an 80ft long hull, was 102ft long at the deck, and around 20ft at it's widest. The Queen Ann is/was 103ft long (only length measurement) and 24.6ft at it's widest and a tonnage around 200. So the two ships might be pretty similar is size, almost equal. Things feel a bit wonky because the original Golden Hind was stored for "public exhibition" at Deptford, London where it eventually rotted away around 1650, and as such any measurement comes from 400 year old records or calculated by nautical experts (both of which might have used to make a replica of the ship which lasts to this day), while a wreck identified as the Queen Ann was found in 1996 in good enough condition to be salvaged from. So I'm not sure how accurate those measurements are, but when talking history, those kinds of things should always be taken with a grain of salt.

Well, this is the Nasuverse. Who's to say the Queen Ann didn't get an infamy-based face-lift to fit people's image of a ship with 40-odd cannon. or something else odd.
 
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MWKillKenny84 said:
They do not jump on him precisely because it is the most obvious option among "Pirates that reached enough Infamy to be recorded in the Throne".

Between the previous Singularities and EMIYA being a Grail War veteran, everyone is slow to jump to conclusions because frankly after the whole "King Arthur is a woman" the whole idea of "easy identification via physical description" has been tossed down the storm drains.

Case in point, Fuyuki Fifth War Rider. Where in the blindfolded bombshell in nearly skin tight black and purple outfit do you see "Medusa", when the Most Commonly Know factors associated to her are "reptile-like skin, snakes for hairs, look in her eyes and you become a stone statue"?

It is only when she removes the blindfold and anything flesh and blood she looks on starts to become stone that the audience (and targets) start to think "Rider is Medusa".
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In fairness, the Medusa as Rider that we see in the Fifth Grail War is noted to be Medusa BEFORE she turned into the Gorgon, which is what people primarily associate with "Medusa".

Furthermore, Medusa's identity isn't a game-changer when it comes to fighting her beyond the whole "mystic eyes" thing; she doesn't use snake-powers and she doesn't fight by turning opponents to stone (nor does she rely on it at all). Trying to use a mirror against her probably wouldn't work because her Mystic Eyes are more of a debuff in her Rider form and less of a "turns everyone into stone" death sentence that you'd associate with the Gorgon.

Of course, you still have plenty of REAL cases where IRL appearances simply do not match with the Servant's appearance in any way at all, with no plausible explanation given (Nero, Julius Caeser being a rotund man, Altera, Ushiwakamaru, etc.).
 
I think Caesar was explained as the mismatch between his actual legend and the Class he's summoned in caused him to look more like his detractors tried to portray him as than how he actually was. You know, since his only claim to the Saber Class is his sword, and he should be a Rider or Ruler
 
SaltyWaffles said:
Furthermore, Medusa's identity isn't a game-changer when it comes to fighting her beyond the whole "mystic eyes" thing; she doesn't use snake-powers and she doesn't fight by turning opponents to stone (nor does she rely on it at all). Trying to use a mirror against her probably wouldn't work because her Mystic Eyes are more of a debuff in her Rider form and less of a "turns everyone into stone" death sentence that you'd associate with the Gorgon.
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Isiri Pudireach said:
I mean, in the Fuyuki Singularity she definitely has a few statues of people. Also she was a Lancer if I remember correctly.
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That's because her eyes can petrify people even as Rider her eyes can petrify people it's just that it isn't an instant effect so the degree that people are effected is determined by things like if she's focusing on you or if your just in her field of vision and possibly around her, people's mana also resists it so servants with high mana stats and possibly magic resistance like Saber just get debuffed.

You could consider it game balance to stop her just winning other things are like that too like Achilles and Siegfried aside from their vulnerability spots have their invincibility abilities have caveats like Achilles's being able to be deactivated if his heel is hit and even while it's up someone with divinity can still hurt him.
 
famfrit said:
That's because her eyes can petrify people even as Rider her eyes can petrify people it's just that it isn't an instant effect so the degree that people are effected is determined by things like if she's focusing on you or if your just in her field of vision and possibly around her, people's mana also resists it so servants with high mana stats and possibly magic resistance like Saber just get debuffed.

You could consider it game balance to stop her just winning other things are like that too like Achilles and Siegfried aside from their vulnerability spots have their invincibility abilities have caveats like Achilles's being able to be deactivated if his heel is hit and even while it's up someone with divinity can still hurt him.
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From F/SN it's canonical that magi and servants can resist it, but it does turn people to stone (I believe there's a bad ending for Shirou where that happens to him).
 
Impstar said:
From F/SN it's canonical that magi and servants can resist it, but it does turn people to stone (I believe there's a bad ending for Shirou where that happens to him).
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Yep. And I recall that it doesn't actually need direct eye contact - Medusa can be looking at her opponents and petrify them that way, so if you don't have the resistance, just being seen by her can be a death sentence.
 
Impstar said:
From F/SN it's canonical that magi and servants can resist it, but it does turn people to stone (I believe there's a bad ending for Shirou where that happens to him).
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readerdreamer said:
Yep. And I recall that it doesn't actually need direct eye contact - Medusa can be looking at her opponents and petrify them that way, so if you don't have the resistance, just being seen by her can be a death sentence.
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Yes that was in what I said her eyes can petrify people which means turn them to stone with various factors effecting the speed of the conversion and how much someone can resist.
 
Then there's the eldest sister of the Sakura Five, who's ID S Skill is a version of Medusa's Eyes that freeze even the air until she wills them free.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
Chapter XCI: Euryale's Woe
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Huh. I suddenly had an idea because of this chapter.

It's been established that, to a greater or lesser degree, mostly for comedic effect, Blackbeard has meta-knowledge, right?

Something I read recently is making me wonder if Blackbeard's meta-knowledge will manifest here, by making him recognize Taylor. And I don't mean, he'll know her as Khepri, Skitter, or anything like that.

It'd be interesting if he DID, but that's not what I mean, lol.

Basically, something I heard about Blackbeard (at least the Nasuverse version) is that a LARGE part of his fearsome reputation was due to rumors and propaganda that Blackbeard spread about himself as a way to ensure the safety of himself and his crew. (pragmatic or cowardice, you choose the motive)

"If people think I'm a horrifying monster, they'll surrender instead of fighting back, which is good because fighting might kill me or my men!"

Basically, a large part of Blackbeards rep was him bluffing. To a little bit of an extreme, lol.

Now, how does this apply to Taylor?

I immediately thought of the bank, when she put black widow spiders on everybody. This had the unfortunate effect of making the PRT and wider public think she was a certified psycho because "WHO THREATENS TO DO THAT?!?" when the TRUTH was that Taylor was scared shitless and wanted to be 120% certain that nobody would try to be a hero or do something stupid and get hurt…she just went WAY too far with her bluff. (Just going by what I remember anyway)

I'm thinking that Blackbeard's meta-knowledge will recognize SOMETHING in Taylor to make him realize she has a similar mindset as him; where she'll threaten to destroy everything an enemy loves, scorch it down to the bedrock, and then salt the earth for good measure, but it will JUST be a threat because she doesn't want to do that at all.

Well…maybe it's more like Blackbeard would recognize that Taylor WAS that kind of person, once upon a time. Not so much nowadays.

Of course, Blackbeard going off of faulty meta-knowledge could be pretty funny too; thinking Taylor's a fellow Extreme Bluffer, and being very incorrect in that assumption, lol.
 
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TattootheDL said:
It's been established that, to a greater or lesser degree, mostly for comedic effect, Blackbeard has meta-knowledge, right?
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Not... really? I mean he's surprisingly otaku-esque, but a fair number of servants show a lot of that kind of knowledge during certain events, and I am positive this is a world where the web serial novel Worm does not exist.
 
Impstar said:
Not... really? I mean he's surprisingly otaku-esque, but a fair number of servants show a lot of that kind of knowledge during certain events, and I am positive this is a world where the web serial novel Worm does not exist.
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Eh, his otaku-esque behavior has SOME shades of Deadpool thrown in. I.E. Knowing about stuff that he by all rights shouldn't have any information on. That's close enough to count as meta-knowledge in my book. At LEAST for comedic or semi-comedic purposes, lol.

…thinking about it, I can't think of a time where a character had meta-knowledge and wasn't using it for comedy purposes, or something similar to that.

Okay, I'm lying, but that was a story about a legendary, horrifically bad D&D campaign where the DM had the BBEG (who was his self-insert DMPC with godlike power) use his knowledge of what the players were doing at the table, to change the setting of the game at will. And this garbage DM thought was just fine and dandy…and tried to justify it by saying he and his self-insert were psychically connected, and the players couldn't let their characters have meta-knowledge because "None of you are psychic in real life!"

Yes, really. I can't make this shit up, I'm not that good.
 
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TattootheDL said:
Wow. I can't believe THAT slipped my mind. lol. Of course, I was thinking more of in official works rather than fan-material…except for one, but that was the off-topic thing I spoilered.
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There is also the "reincarnated into an otome game" subgenre. Er, well it's expanded to other types of fiction as well, but the Otome game ones are the most populous afaik. It's basically just a SI but the author is making up the "source material" as they go on.
 
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