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Halkegenia Online Thread 22 - Kill Sheffield Vol. 2

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Vaermina said:
Her account was also called Asuna Yuki and not Titania in ALO so there is that too. :p
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So the question is what came from her Sao account, what came from mr.god-complex's tampering and what was filled by lore - if jumps tasting the crown is a matter of mauve + power she might be able to but if it's more lore centric then they're slightly hosed
 
Dragontrapper said:
So the question is what came from her Sao account, what came from mr.god-complex's tampering and what was filled by lore - if jumps tasting the crown is a matter of mauve + power she might be able to but if it's more lore centric then they're slightly hosed
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The only thing Sugou altered was Asuna's Avatar's appearance.

So I would assume so far as the game lore would be concerned she is just a regular Maeve character that shares an appearance with Titania.

Which is both good and bad for Asuna because beings keep mistaking her for Titania.
 
Vaermina said:
The only thing Sugou altered was Asuna's Avatar's appearance.

So I would assume so far as the game lore would be concerned she is just a regular Maeve character that shares an appearance with Titania.

Which is both good and bad for Asuna because beings keep mistaking her for Titania.
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Considering how much of a pain it was, I wouldn't be surprised if Asuna smelled like Titania though, and the pixies just don't recognize the scent...

And, sound too.
 
Triggerhappy said:
Considering Titania and Oberon would have been verging on gods I'd say no. Lore seems to have the ability to fill in game mechanics, but doesn't seem to override them completely.

Asuna's stats and racial affinities were very explicitly laid out in the Transition without room for much of a lore override, so that's what she's got.
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Wouldn't matter anyway, given Sugou's retcon to turn Titania into a docile trophy wife means he would have just removed or locked out any power "Titania" would have to appease his narcissism and god-complex.

If "Oberon" had been in ALFheim at the time, everyone would be in BIG trouble.

Vaermina said:
The only thing Sugou altered was Asuna's Avatar's appearance.
So I would assume so far as the game lore would be concerned she is just a regular Maeve character that shares an appearance with Titania.
Which is both good and bad for Asuna because beings keep mistaking her for Titania.
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Why would she even "share an appearance with Titania," if it's just a change in Asuna's avatar?
 
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Triggerhappy said:
There's no reason to believe this is necessary. Solomon is able to use his treasure just fine without a kickstart and he certainly wasn't active during the Transition either.
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True, but then Solomon's Ring hasn't been removed by force, and generally seems to be used in short bursts, this possibly being the first since the Transition. The regularity of using the Ring would ensure that he/the Djinn have the required memories.

In Octavia's case she has simply been the Abyssal Queen for so long. I just wonder if there isn't a critical level of charge the crown requires to be self-sustaining and self-recovering for Octavia's Abyssal Queen form. Simply having the crown might let her use Fae form, empowerment by a maeve's massive magical reserves might give her AQ-form for a time that depends on her power use, but it would take much more (Titania) to push it over the limit.

Well, speculation is like holding a bunch of keys and trying them all to see if one fits...
 
thesage2600 said:
Considering how much of a pain it was, I wouldn't be surprised if Asuna smelled like Titania though, and the pixies just don't recognize the scent...

And, sound too.
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More to the point, Titania sounds and smells and looks like Asuna.

Remeber his plan was to brainwash her and eventually present her to the players AS Titania. I wouldn't be surprsied then if her charachter name was replaced with Titania.(so that is what they would see when looking at her in game) It doesn't change the fact that all of "Titania's" stats were already hard coded, but for all intents and purposes Asuna IS Titania. Just the weak and punny non-godlike version.
 
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Skychan said:
Because she is Titania. Ergo, Titania looks like Asuna, not the other way around. Remember Titania never existed outside of the retco servers, and Asuna was specifically slotted into that spot.
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See, I always imagined that there was Titania NPC designed like the original lore for Sugou to practice trying to break Asuna (which would help explain his canonical reference that NPCs just don't react the same). He knew Asuna would be defiant, so he practiced with a dummy Titania who had her stronger character, and once he had her account, just replaced the NPC with Asuna and changed the lore since he didn't need practice anymore (for his ego trip if he decided to show Asuna).

That's why I imagine, Titania 1.0 might actually have some of Asuna's personal quirks - say a song she used to hum for herself or her cooking talent if she had it pre-SAO - with a voice, appearance, and smell like Asuna's.
 
thesage2600 said:
See, I always imagined that there was Titania NPC designed like the original lore for Sugou to practice trying to break Asuna (which would help explain his canonical reference that NPCs just don't react the same). He knew Asuna would be defiant, so he practiced with a dummy Titania who had her stronger character, and once he had her account, just replaced the NPC with Asuna and changed the lore since he didn't need practice anymore (for his ego trip if he decided to show Asuna).

That's why I imagine, Titania 1.0 might actually have some of Asuna's personal quirks - say a song she used to hum for herself or her cooking talent if she had it pre-SAO - with a voice, appearance, and smell like Asuna's.
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This seems flawed on a whole heap of levels.
 
End Bringer said:
Why would she even "share an appearance with Titania," if it's just a change in Asuna's avatar?
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Because Sugou was trying to make Asuna look like Titania so Asuna could take Titania's place.


Skychan said:
Remeber his plan was to brainwash her and eventually present her to the players AS Titania. I wouldn't be surprsied then if her charachter name was replaced with Titania.(so that is what they would see when looking at her in game) It doesn't change the fact that all of "Titania's" stats were already hard coded, but for all intents and purposes Asuna IS Titania. Just the weak and punny non-godlike version.
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No, Sugou's plan was to brainwash Asuna into being a dutiful and spineless wife. So he could marry into her family and be next in line to take over Retco.

And his charade wouldn't have worked for a second if Asuna went around calling herself Titania. :p
 
thesage2600 said:
See, I always imagined that there was Titania NPC designed like the original lore for Sugou to practice trying to break Asuna (which would help explain his canonical reference that NPCs just don't react the same). He knew Asuna would be defiant, so he practiced with a dummy Titania who had her stronger character, and once he had her account, just replaced the NPC with Asuna and changed the lore since he didn't need practice anymore (for his ego trip if he decided to show Asuna).

That's why I imagine, Titania 1.0 might actually have some of Asuna's personal quirks - say a song she used to hum for herself or her cooking talent if she had it pre-SAO - with a voice, appearance, and smell like Asuna's.
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He would have used a life accurate model of Asuna for Titania 1.0 if he did do something like that. Remember he wanted HER, so if he was making a substitute plaything it would have looked like Asuna anyway. So again, Titania looks like Asuna, not the reverse.
 
Triggerhappy said:
Asuna's stats and racial affinities were very explicitly laid out in the Transition without room for much of a lore override, so that's what she's got.
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Explicitly laid out, yes, but at this point and with all the dream metaphors (fed to the albionians by the 300), it's hard not to draw parallels from the elder scrolls and its metaphysics. All it takes is Buddh CHIM and the zero-sum/lucid dreaming comparison. After all, why else would it be so likely for a dream to move up a subgradient?

It's supremely arrogant to think that dreams becoming reality aren't also dreams.
 
Skychan said:
He would have used a life accurate model of Asuna for Titania 1.0 if he did do something like that. Remember he wanted HER, so if he was making a substitute plaything it would have looked like Asuna anyway. So again, Titania looks like Asuna, not the reverse.
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To the Mobs and Lore however, it's Asuna that would have been made/changed by Oberon to look like Titania.
 
Skychan said:
He would have used a life accurate model of Asuna for Titania 1.0 if he did do something like that. Remember he wanted HER, so if he was making a substitute plaything it would have looked like Asuna anyway. So again, Titania looks like Asuna, not the reverse.
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Ah, I read your post like you were saying there wasn't a Titania model before Asuna was hijacked. I personally think there was.
 
Vaermina said:
Because Sugou was trying to make Asuna look like Titania so Asuna could take Titania's place.
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And to make her "look like" Titania, all it took was having Asuna's real world looks and just add wings and pointy ears? Was Titania originally modeled after Asuna the whole time?

Simplest explanation is he took Asuna's SAO account and put it 'in' the Titania avatar to get that 'merge' affect that happened to Kirito and Silica, considering it would have just been the easiest and more expedient thing to do. If an explanation is needed why Asuna doesn't have "god like powers" is to just remember that she was Sugou's prisoner with no access to admin abilities, and with Sugou the "Titania" avatar would have just been rendered powerless from the start.
 
Skychan said:
Youve entirely missed the point.

To the Mobs and Lore Asuna IS Titania.
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To the Mobs so far as we know she shares an appearance with Titania, same with the lore. So from what I see that just causes them to mistake Asuna for Titania when they meet.

However from everything we have seen so far, she has none of the abilities, powers, or authorities Titania did. And all of the abilities, powers, and authorities her SAO account did.

We even have a direct thought from Octavia that Asuna had none of Titania's "Divine Power".
 
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Vaermina said:
To the Mobs so far as we know she shares an appearance with Titania, same with the lore. So from what I see that just causes them to mistake Asuna for Titania when they meet.

However from everything we have seen so far, she has none of the abilities, powers, or authorities Titania did. And all of the abilities, powers, and authorities her SAO account did.

We even have a direct thought from Octavia that Asuna had none of Titania's "Divine Power".
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Yes, but simultaniously they look at her and see Titania. They do not see someone who is 'like' Titania, they see a Titania who has lost her power.

As for those wondering about a Titania Avatar from before SAO was cleared.

Sugou was involved in that project already. He probably had the NPC Titania already modeled on Asuna. So when he did capture her it was as easy as changing her Avatar name to "Titania" and applying the Maeve racial template to her. Then he deletes the original NPC version of Titania.

It is not actually a chicken and the egg situation. We know which came first. Asuna did. We also know that she doesn't have the power she was said to have in lore. That doesn't suddenly make it so that Asuna isn't Titania. It just means that she doesn't have godlike powers. Her history as Titania is just as 'real' as the rest of the pre-transition history cooked up by the change.

Honestly the best way to aproach things is to say that Asuna has had her powers and memory of her time before stolen by Oberon. Because she is indecipherable from the Titania of lore and their memories claiming her as a Titania look alike is pretty much doomed to fail.
 
Vaermina said:
If there was, shouldn't some of the mobs remember the unaltered character model like they do the unaltered lore?
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Sure, but Faerie in general have extremely malleable physical forms from what we know, so it doesn't really matter. At worst they'd assume she decided on a new look for some reason.

Given that both the Djinn and Octavia recognised her immediately I am inclined to think that Asuna's appearance firmly replaced any previous Titania model.
 
Skychan said:
Or more like,

Tiff finds one of the Shiori, and takes her back to her room. "Shiori what were you doing out of bed, you know you shouldn't be about yet, and I thought I hid away that set of clothing. Now get some rest." Shoves her inside and closes the door without looking.

Turning around sees another Shiori and sighs. "Shiori, what have I told you about sneaking out of bed?
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Shiori: you seemed smarter then this

Another Shiori: she did

Tiff: O. O

Third Shiori: and you lot broker her!

Nicholai said:
Either that or she is going to have a rather profound reaction to being trusted. Whichever it is, should be fun!
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Tavi: ... you ... you trust me?

Asuna: *nods*

+20 Morale bonus in next battle.

Tavi: For Asuna!

Ginko: FOR PONY!!!

Tavi: ... that can not be your battlecry!

Ginko: Why not?

Tavi: A battle cry has to mean something, represent what your fighting for!

Ginko: and mine is for pony.

Triggerhappy said:
True.

As a more immediate mental exercise, what the hell would the Lake Spirit think of Solomon?
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first thought?..... Crush on him :p

Triggerhappy said:
Probably not. I have to maintain a margin of misery.
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figured as much though how Shiori would react to seeing her Akria like this could maybe balance the misery....

End Bringer said:
More like she'd be stumbling over herself (like literally!) to be a good host/guest, immediately do any odd jobs for them that's within sight, offer if they need anyone in a pine box she'll instantly find and cadaverify them, and just make a general nuisance of herself offering to help them while herogasming, till they get rid of the three of her.
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well know we know how to make Shiori squee like the teenage girl(s) she now is....
 
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