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Graf of Sudenberg, a Warhammer CKII quest

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Claytonimor said:
Yeah, but upkeep screws around with that.
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Maybe you could write up a breakdown of our income and expenses, now that we've taken a census?

I did actually forget about the docklands, though. So I added 14 wealth per turn to your total.

Thus, you're getting 110 wealth per turn now.
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Nice!

Also, I think I'ma be increasing food requirements for township, city, and metropolis.
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Maybe make it dependant on the actual population figures? Something like X units of food per Y people?

I would recommend getting more guys, actually. Since you have the excess funds.
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I'm guessing you mean more soldiers? Aren't we already ridiculously over-militarized, though? By my math we have ~5000-6000 soldiers (depending on how to read the entry for the Knights Panther), out of a population of ~26 000. Meaning about 1/6th of our population consists of soldiers, which is... huge, to say the least.


Also, I'm gonna need to figure out how much it should cost to replenish detachments. But that can come later.
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Maybe assign them a sort of hitpoints-value, with the cost proportional to how many they've lost?
 
Kelenas said:
Maybe you could write up a breakdown of our income and expenses, now that we've taken a census?

Nice!

Maybe make it dependant on the actual population figures? Something like X units of food per Y people?

I'm guessing you mean more soldiers? Aren't we already ridiculously over-militarized, though? By my math we have ~5000-6000 soldiers (depending on how to read the entry for the Knights Panther), out of a population of ~26 000. Meaning about 1/6th of our population consists of soldiers, which is... huge, to say the least.


Maybe assign them a sort of hitpoints-value, with the cost proportional to how many they've lost?
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You are over-militarized, but, then again, you are utterly surrounded by enemies.

On that note, I'd also recommend you guys try to build forts to the north.

That hitpoint thing might work.

The problem with that food thing is that, frankly, some people eat more food than others. Rich people, usually. Thus, a city, where you finally start getting rich people, takes much more food.

Eh, I'll leave the food as-is for now.
 
Claytonimor said:
You are over-militarized, but, then again, you are utterly surrounded by enemies.
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Yeah, but you can only have so many soldiers before there's no one left to do other essential stuff like growing food, mining ore, smithing equipment, and all the other stuff necessary to keep soldiers supplied and combat-ready. Not to mention those who simply aren't capable of fighting, such as the very young or very old, cripples, and the like.
It could be somewhat excused/explained by the more basic troops, such as spearmen, being militia who normally work civilian jobs unless called to battle, but that only goes so far.
On that note, I'd also recommend you guys try to build forts to the north.
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Very much agreed, but forts are expensive. One of the reasons I'd like to strengthen our economy a bit, first, if possible.


The problem with that food thing is that, frankly, some people eat more food than others. Rich people, usually. Thus, a city, where you finally start getting rich people, takes much more food.

Eh, I'll leave the food as-is for now.
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I figure it'd roughly even out overall. The rich might eat more, but they're generally only a very small part of the population (less than 1%).
Though you could look into a combined system; a basic food-cost based on our overall population number, plus a static cost based on the number and types of settlement hexes we have, to simulate that wealthy places like towns, cities or metropolises will consume more food.
 
Kelenas said:
Yeah, but you can only have so many soldiers before there's no one left to do other essential stuff like growing food, mining ore, smithing equipment, and all the other stuff necessary to keep soldiers supplied and combat-ready. Not to mention those who simply aren't capable of fighting, such as the very young or very old, cripples, and the like.
It could be somewhat excused/explained by the more basic troops, such as spearmen, being militia who normally work civilian jobs unless called to battle, but that only goes so far.
Very much agreed, but forts are expensive. One of the reasons I'd like to strengthen our economy a bit, first, if possible.


I figure it'd roughly even out overall. The rich might eat more, but they're generally only a very small part of the population (less than 1%).
Though you could look into a combined system; a basic food-cost based on our overall population number, plus a static cost based on the number and types of settlement hexes we have, to simulate that wealthy places like towns, cities or metropolises will consume more food.
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Hmmm....1 food unit per thousand plus the base I have per hex, then?

You'd lose...52 cash per turn that way...hmmm

1 per two thousand is roughly 26 per turn...I'll give it a look-see and might settle on the one food per two thousand thing. For now, though, it shall remain as such.

I know about the other thing.It's why most of your men are stationed in cities. It's because they are still doing their day job. Thus, for now, you can't sally much.
 
Claytonimor said:
Hmmm....1 food unit per thousand plus the base I have per hex, then?

You'd lose...52 cash per turn that way...hmmm

1 per two thousand is roughly 26 per turn...I'll give it a look-see and might settle on the one food per two thousand thing. For now, though, it shall remain as such.
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Well, with the current system, my math says we should have a fair bit more income;

upkeep
7 war galley = 28
16 handgunner = 64
4 swordsmen = 12
3 spearmen = 3
2 halberdier = 6
1 greatsword = 10
total: 123

income
14 village = +84 wealth, -28 food
7 docklands = +42 wealth, + 14 food
1 temple = +3 wealth
3 fort = +15 wealth
24 farm = +96 food
total: +144 wealth, +82 food (= +164 wealth); +308 wealth

total income: 185 wealth/season

Would I be correct in assuming that I'm missing something there? I made some assumptions with the temple and forts, but those are arguably the least important in terms of raw income and don't account for the ~70 units of wealth in difference.
I know about the other thing.It's why most of your men are stationed in cities. It's because they are still doing their day job. Thus, for now, you can't sally much.
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Maybe differentiate somehow between full-time soldiers and militia/garrison?
 
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Income Calculations
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    • 15 villages: -30 food, +90 money
    7 docklands: +14 food, +42 money
    1 shrine (gotta edit the map to show this): -2 food, +1 money
    3 forts: -12 food per season, +15 money
    26 farms: +104 food

    2 halberds: -6 money
    3 spears: -3 money
    1 greatsword: -10 money
    4 swords: -12 money
    16 handguns: -64 money
    7 wargalleys: -28 money
    4 knights: -40 money

    Alright, a few adjustments and there we go. Let's see what your actual seasonal profit is.
    -44 food +118 food = 74 food = 148 money
    +148 money -163 money = -15 money

    So 133 money per turn.

    Let it be so and may none attest otherwise.
     
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    • Construction costs are definitely going to rise. So quick, one of you make a plan dependent on everything remaining the same cost as it currently is!

    Think I might raise ship upkeep as well.

    Oh, and I added food requirements for fort-types and religion-types.
     
    Hm... well, the problem is, that a lot of wealth will most likely be taken up by our actions.

    As a very rough eyebal;

    ~1-5 wealth for Diplomacy;
    Actions here are either free, or fairly cheap (1-2 wealth), so probably not too much. Depends on new actions we might get, though.

    ~ 15-30 wealth for Martial
    The actions here are pretty expensive (~10), and we have 3 actions. So, yeah; a lot of money's gonna end up being spent here.

    ~16 wealth for Intrigue
    The cost of the two actions not chosen last turn. Might go up or down depending on new actions, though.

    ~2 wealth for Learning
    The cost for re-trying the Criers. Might go up if we got new actions and/or additional action-slots due to the new advisor, though.

    ~5+ wealth for Piety
    Trying to gain more support would cost 5 wealth, and the only other action is the blade, which has an unknown but no doubt high cost.

    Overall, that's about a third of our income gone right there, at minimum.

    Not really much we can do with that in terms of fortifications, considering even the simplest one, a signal tower, starts at 20 wealth, with the next one being the watch tower for 50 wealth.
    My approach would be to try and push up our income this turn/season, then use the increased income to start building a palisade fort in the north next season.
    Connect Haifra and Zoan by Cobbled Road, and connect Sudenberg, Samur, and the southern fort/port via Cobbled Road, which should cost ~10 wealth altogether, and increase our income by... not really sure.
    The entry says "+1 Wealth per season per occupied hex connected", so maybe by adding the total number of settlement-hex that this particular stretch of road connects? Like, the Haifra-Zoan stretch would connect a total of 11 settled hexes, so +11 wealth per season? Same for the Sudenberg-Samur stretch, and lastly +6 wealth/season for the Samur-Southern Fort/Dock stretch? Would sum up to ~30 wealth per turn, which is... less than half the cost of a palisade fort.

    One of each resource building; Logging Camp in Samur, Mine in Haifra, and the Quarry wherever it can or need to be. Total 32 Wealth, for a starting income in all three categories, which should hopefully make things like constructing fortifications or ships cheaper due to having the necessary resources available.

    Lots of Pastures; if we sell the food, each nets us 9 wealth income, while only costing 2 wealth to construct. So, build a lot of them in Haifra and Zoan.

    For the remaining wealth, build maybe a signal tower in the north, if we can upgrade later, and pump the remainder into spearmen and archers to act as militia/garrison forces for our villages.

    @Claytonimor
    How does upgrading the facilities on a given hex work, in terms of costs?
    For example, let's say that a hex already has a Dirth Path, and we want to upgrade it to a Cobbled Road. How would we calculate the cost?
    Or, for some other examples;
    - Camp to Village
    - Signal Tower to Watch Tower to Palisade Fort

    Claytonimor said:
    Let it be so and may none attest otherwise.
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    Should probably put something like that on the frontpage somewhere; should make things easier on us when we want/need to decide what to build, recruit, and so on.
     
    Kelenas said:
    @Claytonimor
    How does upgrading the facilities on a given hex work, in terms of costs?
    For example, let's say that a hex already has a Dirth Path, and we want to upgrade it to a Cobbled Road. How would we calculate the cost?
    Or, for some other examples;
    - Camp to Village
    - Signal Tower to Watch Tower to Palisade Fort
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    With almost everything, you subtract the price of the already-built thing you are replacing.

    So a cobbled stone over a dirt path is only .25 wealth per hex.

    The only upgrade which does not do that is from a palisade fort to a full fort. Full forts are full price no matter what excepting excess materials.
     
    Alright, thanks for clarifying that. I'd suggest adding that somewhere in the post with the construction cost.

    Speaking of excess materials, though; could you tell us how much wealth those excess materials would save us? Or is that somewhat flexible?
    Also, could we gain money by selling them off, if necessary? And if so, how much?
     
    Kelenas said:
    Alright, thanks for clarifying that. I'd suggest adding that somewhere in the post with the construction cost.

    Speaking of excess materials, though; could you tell us how much wealth those excess materials would save us? Or is that somewhat flexible?
    Also, could we gain money by selling them off, if necessary? And if so, how much?
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    Alas, not yet.

    Though, you sell the excess of whatever you create automatically.
     
    Assuming there's a 1-1 relationship between icons on the map and our economy, could you add a graphical key to the building list so we know what we're looking at?

    That goes for both threads, assuming it's meant to be the same map.
     
    SwiftRosenthal said:
    Assuming there's a 1-1 relationship between icons on the map and our economy, could you add a graphical key to the building list so we know what we're looking at?

    That goes for both threads, assuming it's meant to be the same map.
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    Not...really?

    The program isn't the most friendly towards inputting a key. If you ask about something, I'll tell you what it is, though.
     
    Claytonimor said:
    Not...really?

    The program isn't the most friendly towards inputting a key. If you ask about something, I'll tell you what it is, though.
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    Hm... you could write on the map, though?
    Maybe just create an empty map where you place the various symbols, and writing what they are next to them?
    Then put that map into a spoiler as a Legend for the main map?
     
    Claytonimor said:
    Not...really?

    The program isn't the most friendly towards inputting a key. If you ask about something, I'll tell you what it is, though.
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    The key doesn't have to be on the map itself. You could use spoiler tabs or more elaborate forum features for it instead. Take the structure list, sort everything - including terrain, which isn't currently listed - by category, and put each symbol in front of the term it matches to.
     
    Mini Action 5: Advising! Resolution
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    • Alas there was one more matter for you to get through. Namely, you had to inspect your prospective adviser. A few days after you sent out a reply to the woman's letter applying to the position, a mousy brunette was escorted to your office. Were she not a women, she would have fit the standard description of an engineer of Nuln to the T. Colorful clothes, soot-stained hands, one eye covered by a series of glasses for some arcane purpose, a belt full of widgets and doo-dads, and an absolutely massive gun was strapped across her back. Really, it's like she was simply the stereotype given living form. Truly, amazing.

    "Ah, hallo, yer gracefulness."

    So that's how this was going to go.

    "Oy never though you'd respond tah me letter, but oy can assure you that oy'll do me level best in elpin you!"

    You suppressed a sigh and listened as she listed her talents.

    Name: Taalia Muntz
    Sex: Female
    Age: 26
    Fertility: 60%

    D: 10
    M: 17
    S: 22
    I: 4
    L: 26
    P: 9

    Traits:
    Engineer: +3 Learning, +1 Martial, -1 Diplomacy, -10% fertility: Connect the pipes there, oil the pivots just so, and bam! Instant gyrocopter!
    Brilliant: +4 to all stats: I've got it! Bwahahahahaha!
    Diligent: +2 Martial, +2 Stewardship, +2 Intrigue: Overtime is just work that you're going to do tomorrow anyway.
    Banished: -5 Diplomacy, -3 Intrigue, -3 Piety: Be gone with you! Let ne'er your face be seen in your homeland evermore!

    As she finishes her obviously well-polished speech on her capabilities, you find yourself with a decision to make. Sure, she was the only applicant you got, but you could always not hire her. So, do you?

    [X] Hire her
    -[X] As Learning Advisor
    -[ ] Write-in
    [ ] Don't hire her

    -------------------------

    "Fine."

    The woman, who'd started glancing about your room uncomfortably, started.

    "Beggin' yer pardon, ser?"

    You wave your hand at her.

    "You. You're in. I expect you to have a list of projects you are willing to work on on my desk before I leave in a few days.

    The noise that next came out of her was something approaching a squee, yet infinitely more damaging to the inner ear. Whilst you recovered from the uncalled-for auditory assault, she went on a tangent as to how you not regret you decision and how she had just so many ideas which she couldn't wait to test and how she was about four percent sure she wouldn't burn down the palace again.

    Really, it was all nonsense.

    Still, you had high hopes, and, as she was escorted out of your room, her mouth still having not stopped spouting out plans and ideas and widgets, you figured that you made an alright decision. She was at least as crazy as the average engineer.
     
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