Hykal94
Orange Estus Kitteh
- Location
- Firelink Shrine
Game of Thrones Season 7
- Thread starter Teen Spirit
- Start date
all fictions
I hate you! (it's not against the rules!)
- Location
- Mons Regius
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Didn't you just ask, and I quote, "where did the show itself make such claims?" about claims of realism and historical political drama within the series? What was the point of your inquiry then?
Polokun
Dragonheart
It started when @VolantRedX said he wanted GoT to be just tits and dragons.
That's not what he said. He said that he'd like it better if it didn't have any pretense about being anything beyond "tits and dragons". You challenged that it ever made such claims, which is where allfiction's excerpts from interviews come in.
Polokun
Dragonheart
VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
It's very frustrating to have a conversation with someone that doesn't seem to understand context.
Somewhat "funny" thing related to that, one of the actors response to people complaining about him casually dropping spoilers for the season in an interview?
"Who cares, its just tits and dragons."
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Glad you responded. I was just about to say something.
It's the Azor Ahai thing that I mean. The theory was is that Azor Ahai is not a chosen one in the good sense, nor is the god of darkness an evil deity. The god of darkness is the Many Faced God and the Old Gods, and its conflict with the god of light has less to do with good and evil, but sort of an eternal conflict that needs to be balanced. Further, Dany is Azor Ahai and Jon will be the champion of the Old Gods/Many Faced God.
Though I'm starting to wonder, if this theory reflects any truth, is that the Night King is the champion of the other gods, and Jon might be more a mediating force having both the ice and fire in his veins. The last war with the Others/White Walkers has been implied to have ended in a truce sealed by marriage rather than a big final battle.
If that's what they are, cool, but If they're little more than that I'm still going to be disappointed that ASoIF/GoT was more or less just another tale of squabbling Fantasy lords uniting to put down a Dark Lord and his ugly followers of doom.
But like in my original point, we don't know till we know. So we have to be open about it and not fixate on our theories.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Well, I feel, by now it will have to be. If the Others are something more sophisticated, there would have needed to be more about them by now.
That's my feeling as well, sadly. I was really hoping in the Weseros Seven episode the Night King would say something or some hint was dropped of their true intentions. When that didn't happen, my hopes sunk, which is why I'm even hesitant to read WoW if it ever comes out.
Polokun
Dragonheart
I dunno, I kinda like the fact that they haven't said anything. There's just something more menacing about them that way.
I get that point. The villain muttering off their master plan instead of just going about killing the protagonist is refreshing in and of itself, but I've seen this plot a thousand times before in the genre. It's expected and thus boring to me. The Night King and the rest of the Ice zombie lords coming in to destroy the world because they're evuuul or whatever is fucking lame compared to even show Ramsey, let alone the Lanisters and the other more sophisticated antagonists.
Polokun
Dragonheart
I dont think they're doing it because they're evil, they're doing it because they were a weapon designed specifically to destroy mankind. They just never got turned off.
all fictions
I hate you! (it's not against the rules!)
- Location
- Mons Regius
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I dunno, it seems more like Bran is the champion of the Old Gods than Jon.
I can see what you mean by both sides not being wholly good or evil: after all, Rhllor's followers still burn people, and Bran in Jon's dream as well as Bloodraven say something to the effect that darkness can be helpful. That said, the whole "balance between good and evil" is also yet another cliché, so that's no good either.
Where? Is it about the Night's King and his corpse queen?
Yeah, but that's the show, where the White Walkers are little more than the Lich King from WoW.
The Others are more mystical, in a world where summers seem linked to peace and prosperity or vice versa, while winters are harsh in periods of trouble and get more frequent when the last dragons die. The way I see it, I don't think the Others are not an evil per se: they are anti-life, anti-human heart. All that happens in Westeros, it all involves human hearts against themselves and each others, emotions, ideals, etc., perfectly encapsulated in how Maester Aemon remarked that "gods made us for love".
The Others and their wights have none of that. They don't love, they don't hate, they don't fear, they don't cry. They feel nothing and think nothing. They don't live.
It's their void they want to spread, and it's why they are the enemies of all life. They are not good or evil, they are destruction.
That's why, personally, I dont want the evil people to die or get their retribution just yet, like fics are wont to do: I want to see humans, good and evil, ally to fight against anti-life.
I disagree. There is plenty to look forward to outside of the Others, so I don't think you should let apprehension hamper your enjoyment. I know many who don't like Bran's, Dany's, or Arya' POV for example, while still enjoying the rest of the books.
Besides, the Others are interesting in how the rest of the cast will react to them. It's like zombies in Walking Dead: they are an important element of the setting, but ultimately it's centered around the humans, with sometime the "natural" catastrophe threatening our heroes.
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Mortis Nuntius
Theon Killjoy
- Location
- United Kingdom
The Others are pure evil or pure good or pure ice demons from a different age in a place where magic still holds strong. There being some ancient forgotten truce that provokes them into murdering and reanimating innocent people when their whole contact with the human race concludes of merrily doing their best to sow pain and misery seems a bit weak.
Like look at how they act on page, callus and gleeful murders of outnumbered and outclassed teenagers. Preying on the wildings day and night and sending their own dead against them as they herd them towards the Wall whilst setting in motion events that all the prophesies and warnings scream will involve mass death. Even if they were the "victims" of a forgotten truce they need to be stopped. If your character traits include wanton cruelty, necromancy, heralding mass death and misery and the end of the world and a "hate for everything with warm blood in its veins" then somehow I don't think there will be an eleventh hour realisation that really you are just misunderstood.
Like look at how they act on page, callus and gleeful murders of outnumbered and outclassed teenagers. Preying on the wildings day and night and sending their own dead against them as they herd them towards the Wall whilst setting in motion events that all the prophesies and warnings scream will involve mass death. Even if they were the "victims" of a forgotten truce they need to be stopped. If your character traits include wanton cruelty, necromancy, heralding mass death and misery and the end of the world and a "hate for everything with warm blood in its veins" then somehow I don't think there will be an eleventh hour realisation that really you are just misunderstood.
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Polokun
Dragonheart
Which makes the show's explanation for their origin more sense regarding their actions. They're not doing it because they're evil, they're doing it because that's what they were made to do.
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Mortis Nuntius
Theon Killjoy
- Location
- United Kingdom
I actually kind of feel completely meh about the show's origin because it makes them so much less. Instead of an ancient and powerful force capable of ending all life because they simply despise the concept they are basically a dying race's last fuck you that just kind of trundles along walking through the snow killing Crows.
Its the same for the Night King being an individual who will get killed by Jon or Dany and all will be well because his followers will fall apart whilst in the books Dany has a vision of meeting the Others on the Trident and we've had all the build up for the siege of Winterfel and subtle work of destiny pushing towards a battle of life vs death rather than Night King vs Protagonist.
Polokun
Dragonheart
Pretty sure it'll still end with Protagonists vs. Others in the books.
Mortis Nuntius
Theon Killjoy
- Location
- United Kingdom
Yes but they won't be alone and I doubt it will come down to a sword fight or something with music swelling dramatically as they slay evil forever and go home happily to Aegon's rightful throne whilst burning Winterfel on the way out as punishment for Ned helping the evil Robert kill Jon's true father and ruining everything.
Its like you can see how its going to end so far off that almost anything the books have instead will be better. They are simply so much richer and more consistent in their characterisation that the Others just being a plot device does not matter because you know the story has been about people and their choices and the build up is to how the world is changed by them. Not a boss fight.
Polokun
Dragonheart
Ehh, I just think you're ascribing way too much metaphor and meaning into the books then intended.
all fictions
I hate you! (it's not against the rules!)
- Location
- Mons Regius
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is pretty funny:
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@Fell in that video, Preston is like Maesters that deny any magical events have ever existed.He also tries very hard to explain that Planetos is a SciFi civilization that has fallen from an apocalypse and that there is no magic only teke. He denies the existence of Long Night, puts the irregular lengths of season to natural seasons and not magic despite what Martin says, he says that the Long Night would never come and that the WW is mostly peaceful and that Jon and the rest are the warlike people that make everything worse.
So in summary what a load of crap for this video.
So in summary what a load of crap for this video.
- Location
- The Final Frontier
Though, to be fair, I've played the 'lost scifi civilization' Dungeons and Dragons module, and that's a lot of fun.
- Location
- Challenge God? y/n
You've said that a lot of things he says you don't agree with, but you failed completely to defend that.