From Stone to the Stars

[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Settle near the Twisted Forest and Cave of Stars. (Chance of starvation)
[X] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)

Considering our luck so far, I'm willing to roll the dice on the Settlement.
 
[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Put off the settlement for a generation. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)
 
[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [War] Finish South Lake forevermore. (Raid: South Lake)
[X] [River] Put off the settlement for a generation. (-1 Legitimacy)
 
[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Put off the settlement for a generation. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [War] Attempt to write a peace. (Pick 2 - Trade: Island Makers, Bond Breakers)
[X] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)

I'd rather explore the forest first and figure out what's going on there.
 
[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Settle near the Twisted Forest and Cave of Stars. (Chance of starvation)
[X] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)
 
Statistically, the weather is likely to improve at this point; chances of that are extremely high. If the weather continues to get worse, it will be really, really bad, though.

That's kinda what you said about Kaspar surviving this long, so I won't hold my breath if the dice don't fall in line again this time either.

I rolled twice and you got 99 and 91 for your hunting actions this turn.

Mastodons are actually availible to you, their habitable range is a little bit north of you. If the Northlands pick them up, you'll probably be able to make a trade.

So what exactly will domesticated Orker do for us, and is it locked in as a surefire thing? I'm assuming that we can likely turn some of them into pork or domesticated livestock, with the others being raised for use as cavalry, though I don't think the terrain here suits them for that.

One of the things that you needed to get before losing the semi-nomadic trait was two of: professional warriors, slavery, Centralization 3, 3 Cultivated species, or Specialization 3. You've managed to get the first, 4th and 5th condition all on this turn.

@Redium With two of these conditions met now, what exactly will losing semi-nomadic mean for us, and what will it be replaced with?

The species is one that is probably never existed since they went extinct before humans evolved, but they're a member of the Entelodont genus, better know as 'Hell pigs' or 'Terminator pigs' even though they're more closely related to hippos than pigs. They're essentially giant, prehistoric boars; the average orker stands about 5'4"-5'8" at the shoulder and has a 3' large skull. They primarily eat roots, gourds, tubers and other such plants, but they're also known to have a fondness for bones and other carrion. They are also nasty. Think how aggressive boars are normally and then put that mind in a frame closer to that of a rhino.

Damn, it's going to suck for whoever faces us in combat, that's for sure. How exactly did we domesticate them anyway, asides from finding those juveniles? Also, has anyone else done anything comparable to us in this regard?

You only gained 2. I'm pretty sure you were at 16 prestige before. Even if not, 18 Prestige sounds right for where you are now.

How exactly did we gain that prestige anyway?

Winter resistance. There's not so much magic about them beyond extreme physical conditioning. The fact that it's not uncommon for members of the Holy Order have body parts rot off during training (due to frostbite), they're considered to be partly spirit. The loss of limb is considered to be a spiritual toll.

Is our medicine far enough along that our warriors were able to survive these losses? Either we've traded enough with the Peace Builders to get enough medicine, ore we've picked up some of the plants they've used I'm assuming.

You will get an option when he dies. It's been mentioned a bit already, but there's deification, deific teaching, a deific curse, among other options.

Damn. How exactly will any of this work? What will the reaction of the People be like to his passing?

Because he seems to have had a massive impact on its people, leading them through multiple conflicts, and into a sort of golden age with the progress we've made. It doesn't surprise me that he would be deified.

The Island Makers can simply drag their boats out across the ice to get to the water; there's also ice fishing. The lake down south isn't nearly large enough to freeze over during the winter. Their choices are limited since some sections of their coastline are choked with floating shards of ice, but they have a long enough coastline that somewhere is accessible.

So they're not completely struggling. But I'm guessing they are struggling more than us right? Considering they don't have brick homes to keep away the elements like we have, nor do they likely water grass to rely on.

The war is effectively over. The only question is do you want to wipe out South Lake. They're utterly trashed right now. They probably couldn't even take on the Bond Breakers right now and win. I guess the could but it would be a horrific war. Your lowest roll against them during the war was 96. It was literally ridiculous; you rolled four times and all of them were at least 96.

I sincerely thought that South Lake was going to be a much bigger obstacle than they've been. It's just that everything; the weather, the Mountain Clans, slave revolts, making new enemies at just the right time all contributed to them overextending and collapsing.

What exactly would us wiping out the South Lake Tribe accomplish? That's what I'm wondering because right now there doesn't seem to be any incentive for it mechanically.

Your warriors are currently the best. Kaspar thinks that South Lake's warriors might have been better at their peak, it's hard to say. Your forces are definitely the best equipped, though. From the rumours he's heard, Kaspar suspects that the only ones who could possibly rival you are the unknown tribes from the south that the Peace Builders are currently warring against.

So not only are we an economic powerhouse, but we're also the unquestioned military powerhouse then? It seems like we're doing rather well for ourselves.

I'm just curious to know what are warriors are kitted out with specifically. Such as do they use warclubs, blackswords, bone armor or wood armor?

How are warriors trained anyways?

The distance from Hill Guard to the Fingers is immense. That doesn't have any real effects, but it's going to drive anthropologists nuts. Your settlements are enormously far apart.

Why exactly would this drive anthropologists nuts?

By Neolithic standards you're also ridiculously, ridiculously wealthy.

How so? In terms of material wealth, or in terms of food?

On that note, if you had to rank the civilizations in the region, how would we stack up against the rest? You know like those periodic lists that popped up in Civ games that show how you compared to your neighbors.

The Peace Seekers have some resemblance to Yucatan quest. The Island Makers have traits from the Ymaryn. On the flip side, there's probably not going to be a civilization as powerful as the Ymaryn that is as ahistorical. The reason for that is simple: slavery is easy, conquest is easy, xenophobia is easy. Innovation is hard, tolerance is hard, moderation is hard. The more ahistorical the People are and the more they foster relationships with their neighbours, the more ahistorical the entire region will be.

Once you hit the Age of Exploration, I can make things really weird. The region you're in will evolve organically, the rest of the world I will craft.

I've already said that Not!South America is going to have Ground Sloth cavalry. There's going to be elements like that, things that weren't historical but make each civilization more unique. In this quest, the People's distinguishing mark is already shaping up to be their extensive domestication of animals. I mean, I expect you guys to beeline towards Orker Cavalry as fast as you possible can.

Are there any other changes we should be aware of, considering how you've altered this world in order to give you more freedom, such as with the Orkers?
Adhoc vote count started by Japanime on Apr 25, 2018 at 11:18 PM, finished with 26 posts and 19 votes.
 
[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Settle near the Twisted Forest and Cave of Stars. (Chance of starvation)
[X] [War] Finish South Lake forevermore. (Raid: South Lake)

Finishing of an enemy is sensible and is the ethos of the people.
Not to mention the booty, prestige and possible population surplus that could be gained.
At the very least it puts us in good light with the tribes involved, and would deter others from trying thier luck against us.
 
[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Put off the settlement for a generation. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [War] Attempt to write a peace. (Pick 2 - Trade: Island Makers, Bond Breakers)


Wow those pigs sound metal.

Maybe we can raise them for milk and meat.
 
So what exactly will domesticated Orker do for us, and is it locked in as a surefire thing? I'm assuming that we can likely turn some of them into pork or domesticated livestock, with the others being raised for use as cavalry, though I don't think the terrain here suits them for that.
Boars are actually quite good at covering a variety of terrains, though they don't really have the kind of linear speed you'd be looking to for most cavalry, once they charge...well thats a lot of moving meat.

As livestock, their biggest boon is that they're extreme omnivores, thus allowing us to convert more waste and marginal environments to produce food.
That said, this also means that pigs tended to carry a lot of parasites and diseases, because unsurprisingly when the swineherds figure out they can eat anything, they often turn the whole lot loose to scavenge across a region of forest or literally feed them crap, which means endemic parasites.

The solution of course, is to use lots of fire and make goddamned bacon.
Is our medicine far enough along that our warriors were able to survive these losses? Either we've traded enough with the Peace Builders to get enough medicine, ore we've picked up some of the plants they've used I'm assuming.
Frostbite is one of the cleanest crippling injuries.
Extremities lost to frostbite have a minimum of blood loss or infection due to the circumstances, assuming they amputate and cauterize before it goes gangrenous.
Damn. How exactly will any of this work? What will the reaction of the People be like to his passing?

Because he seems to have had a massive impact on its people, leading them through multiple conflicts, and into a sort of golden age with the progress we've made. It doesn't surprise me that he would be deified
I'd note given the way the weather is going, its entirely possible that when he dies the weather will turn.
So not only are we an economic powerhouse, but we're also the unquestioned military powerhouse then? It seems like we're doing rather well for ourselves.
Praise bricks. Thats our game changing advantage. Fired bricks and mortared walls means we spend less calories on heat loss due to insulation, we spend less calories repairing and replacing log walls(which cost a heck of a lot of manpower), which lets us do more things.

Oh and the obsidian and the other shiny rocks meant that others were giving us their techs. AND the obsidian made us the source of unmatched elite melee weapons.
Why exactly would this drive anthropologists nuts?
Archaeological evidence is extremely sparse, and people often mapped cultural connectivity by linear distance. We're connected over an absurd distance in an interdependent network. They're going to be going bonkers wondering why the settlements are skewed in an unsustainable way for so long until they find both sites and realize that they're meeting each other's needs.
 
[X] [Cave] It's cursed land, wounded in a great battle between spirits.
[X] [River] Put off the settlement for a generation. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [War] Finish South Lake forevermore. (Raid: South Lake)

If we end South Lake, I'd expect a slavery is bad stigma, and Kaspar's legend might grow.
 
[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Settle near the Twisted Forest and Cave of Stars. (Chance of starvation)
[X] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)
 
[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Settle near the Twisted Forest and Cave of Stars. (Chance of starvation)
[X] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)
 
[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Settle near the Twisted Forest and Cave of Stars. (Chance of starvation)
[X] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)

I think we can pull this off if we pull back our people back home.
 
@Redium
How close to inventing writing are we (if you can tell us)

I'm going to have to invoke S.13 for this ("right against self-incrimination").

So what exactly will domesticated Orker do for us, and is it locked in as a surefire thing? I'm assuming that we can likely turn some of them into pork or domesticated livestock, with the others being raised for use as cavalry, though I don't think the terrain here suits them for that.

Pork is the big thing. Orkers are massive, they can weigh more than a thousand kilograms. Modern bulls are noticeably smaller than orkers. They're also going to be extremely effective beasts of burden once you figure out how to harness them (and not get gutted by one of their tusks).

Actual domestication is based on 1) the passage of time and 2) periodic hunting actions.

@Redium With two of these conditions met now, what exactly will losing semi-nomadic mean for us, and what will it be replaced with?

Semi-nomadic is better than settled at your current level so it's a bit of a downgrade. What being fully settled gets you is that it uncaps your organization tier. Right now you're locked to settlements. Now that you're settled, you can progress to provinces and other larger agglomerations.

Damn, it's going to suck for whoever faces us in combat, that's for sure. How exactly did we domesticate them anyway, asides from finding those juveniles? Also, has anyone else done anything comparable to us in this regard?

Honestly, you were literally lucky enough to find new piglets. The hardest part with domestication is training the small initial population to trust humans. Once you have that, you can allow them to interbreed with the wild population to increase your numbers over time. There's actually an enormous amount of gene flow in tamed and wild populations.

The other way to domesticate, is to do it slowly over time by feeding the animals. Eventually they learn that humans mean food. This means that animals who acknowledge that tend to survive, then then take on more and more pro-human genes over time until they allow their feeding and reproduction to be fully controlled by humans.

How exactly did we gain that prestige anyway?

Utterly trashing South Lake in combat.

Is our medicine far enough along that our warriors were able to survive these losses? Either we've traded enough with the Peace Builders to get enough medicine, ore we've picked up some of the plants they've used I'm assuming.

@veekie touched on it already; frostbite is an incredibly clean way to lose limbs as long as you don't let the dead tissue remain on the body. The Frost-Scarred actually recommend a 'hair of the dog' style of treatment for frostbite if it's severe. Instead of warming, they say you should expose it to more cold. This, paradoxically, makes things better. Mild and moderate frostbite can be recovered from with only minimal treatment or difficulty. Severe frostbite tends to require amputation and cleaning. Extreme frostbite on the other hand tends to autoamputate; affected digits will literally 'fall off' of their own accord without any treatment or complications.

So they're not completely struggling. But I'm guessing they are struggling more than us right? Considering they don't have brick homes to keep away the elements like we have, nor do they likely water grass to rely on.

The Island Makers have more food than you, but they are suffering from the weather more.

What exactly would us wiping out the South Lake Tribe accomplish? That's what I'm wondering because right now there doesn't seem to be any incentive for it mechanically.

A big bundle of prestige. Destroying a faction completely gives a fraction of all the prestige they have.

The benefit of allowing South Lake to continue to exist is that they're now a thorn in the south's side, distracting them from you.

I'm just curious to know what are warriors are kitted out with specifically. Such as do they use warclubs, blackswords, bone armor or wood armor?

How are warriors trained anyways?

This is going to be changed with a future decision point. Training is currently ad hoc so you'll get some choices in the future. You could make it so that all warriors need to be a member of a Holy Order, warriors are designated by the Big Man, their Slate, or on a longhouse basis.

Right now, the Holy Orders have first pick of candidates. The Ember-Eyes usually pick first since they start youngest, about 6-10 years old. The Fangs start recruitment from 10-14. The Frost-Scarred picks recruits from 14-16. Each Holy Order trains based on their particular mysteries; i.e. pyromania, woodcraft and working with dogs, and endurance/cold weather acclimatization. Holy Orders are basically meritocratic.

If an individual is not picked up by a Holy Order, they tend to start training to be a warrior at age 16. There's not really a system for that, though. Generally warriors train whomever catches their eye, treating them like an apprentice. This obviously causes problems with nepotism, but there's also important elements of politics involved as well. Being the trainer of a promising young warrior is a large prestige boost. If anyone is good at war, they'll be picked up for training by someone. There's often not enough of 'the best' to completely fill the demand for warriors, so the rest are 'good enough' recruits and tend to be family members of individuals with important family connections.

All warriors are expected to be proficient in unarmed combat, archery, spears, knives, and the blacksword. The bow is the number one weapon of a warrior. For melee, the blacksword and the spear are generally the weapon of choice for a warrior. Blackswords are obviously more popular, but also more difficult to make. They're mostly the domain of more experience or more senior warriors. Young ones tend to get spears.

Why exactly would this drive anthropologists nuts?

@veekie answered this one again. Most Neolithic cultures tended to be very concentrated. From Hill Guard to the Fingers, you're roughly 3 times the average geographic size and that's deeply unusual.

Are there any other changes we should be aware of, considering how you've altered this world in order to give you more freedom, such as with the Orkers?

Nooooooooo...... /s

How so? In terms of material wealth, or in terms of food?

On that note, if you had to rank the civilizations in the region, how would we stack up against the rest? You know like those periodic lists that popped up in Civ games that show how you compared to your neighbors.

Wealth. Food wise you're behind most people; the difference is your food source tends to be more reliable than everyone except the Island Makers.

I'll think about ranking civilizations in the future. A leader board would be pretty useful.
 
[X] [Cave] It's a mouth to the spirits' home.
[X] [River] Settle near the Twisted Forest and Cave of Stars. (Chance of starvation)
[X] [War] Withdraw your men, bring them home. (Expand Hunting)
 
Hereditary warrior caste in 3 generations

YES!!!

okay ill return lurking in this thread soon enough as I said my piece, but once we get a proper military working I will be happy, but we also need more food diversity as well as finding ways to keep crops going in winter...maybe one day we will find a geothermal vent or something and use it as a way to keep crops growing even during winter,If were lucky. (crosses fingers!)

but still, I think we should allow the people to pretty much deify Kasper, the dude has pretty much earned it with how long he's lived and I bet anthropologists will be driven nuts on how old he is when they find his tomb...heck I would say that they would go nuts over him (what's his current age anyway again?).
 
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