- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
Means more damn hills and more damn temples...crap.
From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Martial Hero. Damn. This war is going to be terrible.
Oh god, ecological warfare unlocked.
Nice, Manage Hunting extends our viability.
Tough choice here
How should the People commemorate this project?
[ ] [Reward] Raise Temple: Hill Guard 1/2 + 2/2
This helps lock in our Hero's admin bonus, and builds a temple to boost our Stability(currently 0!) and Legitimacy(which we may be spending on our decision this turn).
We badly need this.
[ ] [Reward] Annual Festival x2
Culture boost and stability. We could take this any time though.
[ ] [Reward] Manage Hunting x3
More food, take us to Large Surplus.
[ ] [Reward] Explore x5
This is the most action efficient reward since 5 explore actions is more than twice the others...but it doesn't help with immediate problems, AND it can reveal new wonders which our culture requires us to control.
[ ] [Reward] Raise Warriors (Holy Orders) x2
We ARE at war here. Theres a chance of spawning a new holy order of rangers and trackers.
Very sweet combination here, since it turns our Hills and Temples into monstrously effective mini-wonders.
Empty Honour Value Slot Detected! Where should a new Value be taken from?
[ ] [Value] Peace Builders
-I want to be the very best - We have this already.
-Hand or Fist - Take our words or take our spears
Basically if we take this we'd be compelled to offer diplomacy first even if it seems unlikely, but if diplomacy fails we'd be committed in a war to the knife. Synergistic with Flat Arrow Outlook and actually mitigates some of the Immediate Violence issues(with the promise of violence later) by making it a Trial By Fire thing.
Problematic with the Northlands current situation since we'd find it hard to actually finish them off and the new trait makes it harder to resume diplomacy .
[ ] [Value] Pearl Divers (-1 Stability)
Can't seem to find their values.
[ ] [Value] Arrow Lake (-1 Stability)
-Ancestral Deeds - This is an elitism value that has synergy with I Want to be the very best. It also encourages recordkeeping and accelerates the route to Writing...with the downside that it punishes infidelity, sexual deviance and illegitimate birth HARD(because of the confusion of ancestors) as well as making us slightly more xenophobic for anyone we hadn't had past relations with. Coupled to Flat Arrow Outlook we can look forward to honor killings for unapproved sexual choices.
-All For One - This is the Community value. If one of us is fucked over, we make sure to back them up. Doesn't matter who's in the right. They're ours. Good for stability, but makes outside diplomacy harder
Overall not my preference.
[ ] [Value] Northlands (-1 Legitimacy)
-Blood Brothers - This is a social cohesion value that helps bind our society together, since people not blood kin can be treated as kin. It also invents politics early, which will be the root of all evil
We actually need something like this pretty badly, because we're building tall, which means a lot of people are going to be thrust at each other and the old blood lineage methods is going to be an utter pain. Being able to adopt others into your clan group helps smooth that over.
It can make things like Holy Orders more insular though
[ ] [Value] Develop Internally
Let the RNG speak, based on recent decisions. The case of Priit would be the most decisive here.
So lets see the justice case:
Should Priit be punished? (All options cost at least -1 Stability)
Note first that all Yes results will cost extra due to the punishment.
[ ] [Priit] No, he acted in accordance with precedent and his personal duty.
-In line with current values
-Reinforces Nepotism as Okay.
[ ] [Priit] Yes, his actions lead to tragedy regardless of intent.
-Pushes towards evolving Retributive Justice towards Protective Justice.
-Costs us a Hero when we're fighting an enemy Hero.
[ ] [Pritt] Yes, he is clearly lying and went looking to fight, not to fulfill his duty.
-Casts doubt on his given word. Goes against Flat Arrow Outlook and I Want To Be the Very Best. A martial elite under those two traits should be able to do this thing.
-Costs us a Hero when we're fighting an enemy Hero.
[ ] [Pritt] No, he only defended himself.
-In line with current values
-Reinforces Nepotism as Okay.
[ ] [Pritt] Aeva would not vote against her family and abstains. (Vote deadlocks, -1 additional Stability)
-We're at Stability 0. This will take us to -2
[ ] [Pritt] Aeva would not vote against family and abstains alongside the Big Man of Hill Guard. (Big Man of the Fingers convicts.)
-This is voting yes, but without having Aeva be involved. Might be good for shaping an Honor trait.
-Costs us a Hero when we're fighting an enemy Hero.
[ ] [Pritt] Aeva attempts to lean on her connections to solve the matter privately. (Chance of additional -1 to +1 Stability)
-Solves it by back channel. Potential for developing the trait for our womens' backroom dealings mentioned long ago.
-Against Flat Arrow Outlook.
-Risky, since we can eat a critical hit from this and collapse
[ ] [Pritt] No, the boy is too important of a warrior to sacrifice.
-This reinforces his status as a Warrior Elite, and is pretty much upfront about it. The precedent is the strong can do whatever they want.
How severely should he be punished? (You can vote for this, it won't matter if you do not vote to punish Priit)
[ ] [Punishment] Death. (-1 Stability)
We lose our own Hero when we're facing one.
But its the simplest punishment and the least fallout.
[ ] [Punishment] Exile. (???)
We have a chance of spawning him as a renegade tribe that has Issues with us.
[ ] [Punishment] Make Priit a Debtor. (-1 Stability)
This is in line with our past justice practices. It sidelines him for a while until he works off the debt.
[ ] [Punishment] Extract immense fines from Priit. (-1 Legitimacy)
Make him pay his way out of the damage. No idea where he's going to get the fines from...probably nothing good. Its cheaper for us though. We have plenty of legitimacy, but no Stability to spare.
How do the Big Men rule on Priit's allegation of food theft?
[ ] [Theft] The woman was no thief. A woman can always expect support from her husband.
Favors the woman in legitimacy disputes. Marriage as permanent(with Flat Arrow Outlook this is going to be resolved by violence)
[ ] [Theft] The woman was a thief. Taking food from a family with which your child shares no blood is done under false pretenses and a crime.
Favors the man in legitimacy disputes. The hard part is its hard to prove here.
[ ] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship.
Adultery itself is not a crime, but is grounds for divorce?
Its probably the easiest and clearest to judge and prove. Whether its fair is another matter
[ ] [Theft] The woman was a thief, but not of everything she is accused. All of the initial gifts given were hers, but what she asked for later was theft under false pretenses.
The adultery is automatic divorce.
Hard to prove again, but fairly clear cut.
Personal combo:
[ ] [Reward] Raise Temple: Hill Guard 1/2 + 2/2
[ ] [Value] Northlands (-1 Legitimacy)
[ ] [Pritt] Aeva attempts to lean on her connections to solve the matter privately. (Chance of additional -1 to +1 Stability)
[ ] [Punishment] Extract immense fines from Priit. (-1 Legitimacy)
[ ] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship.
Net result:
Legitimacy 3 -> 2 to 3(depending on how the judgment ends)
Stability 0 -> -1 to 1(depending on Aeva's rolls)
No risk of collapse, we get a New Idea, but things can get a little sticky if our hero doesn't roll well on juggling everything.
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
- Location
- Canada
Is there a way we can reward Pritt? Say he did nothing wrong, and proceed to send him off to the front lines? And in private tell the chief of the fangs that if he wins the war, he is exempt of all wrong doings, if he loses, its a suitable punishment.
It sounds like an epic story of a rising hero who proceeds to win every battle place in front of him, in essence, a martial hero stands before us! One who the big man thinks is Kaspers equal.
It sounds like an epic story of a rising hero who proceeds to win every battle place in front of him, in essence, a martial hero stands before us! One who the big man thinks is Kaspers equal.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's just this option [ ] [Pritt] No, the boy is too important of a warrior to sacrifice..
It would make our issues with FAO infinitely worse though, by basically sanctioning the right of warriors to kill anyone they don't like.
Cybandeath
Lord Darkness, and Representative of Mad Science
- Location
- The United States of America
REPENTANCE THROUGH BATTLE!
- Location
- Canada
Ah I meant for a different path then say he not being punish, but as a sort of punishment/reward threw war, after all, the people solve things threw violence, it isnt rewarding him by letting him go free, but rather fast tracking him to the front lines. IF he wins that war, he is in the right, the chief who hates him, HAS to drop any anger he has towards him, BUT if he dies in that battle, but takes down a massive amount then he is still rewarded as a hero, but is dead, and any problems anyone has with him is dead with him. Its not a perfect solution, but Im not going to try and shove my ideals onto someone who lives in a different time period/ is fictional.
Just that Im working with the current system we have, by letting him go to war, and win, he is exempt of all crime that the fingers have with him, if he dies, well, whatever.
Edit: Long term this is best, as soldiers who do wrong are punished into doing HARDER assignments, meant to either kill them, or reward them.
People are lazy, they go do the things of least resistance, by having such a mentality of being rewarded more work, with possible death, but fame, crimes soldiers would do would drop. However punishing crime only encourages people to try and hide their deeds, or fame others. In a public manner such as this however its more likely to be accepted, either this criminal warrior becomes a hero, or dies a hero, either is good.
Last edited:
Not going to work. Warriors are a position people fight to get. Not a punishment
[ ] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship.
[ ] [Theft] The woman was a thief, but not of everything she is accused. All of the initial gifts given were hers, but what she asked for later was theft under false pretenses.
Do the People view theft as different than 'theft under false pretenses'? If not, then this might have implications beyond the adultery bit. This might start some sort of legal precedence for fraud. Give someone some sort of outlet other than violence to deal with someone who maliciously misled them? Or is that covered under the debtor system?
[ ] [Theft] The woman was a thief, but not of everything she is accused. All of the initial gifts given were hers, but what she asked for later was theft under false pretenses.
Do the People view theft as different than 'theft under false pretenses'? If not, then this might have implications beyond the adultery bit. This might start some sort of legal precedence for fraud. Give someone some sort of outlet other than violence to deal with someone who maliciously misled them? Or is that covered under the debtor system?
Just means the crime is more severe.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
I think I am going to vote for something like this.
[ ] [Reward] Raise Temple: Hill Guard 1/2 + 2/2
[ ] [Value] Peace Builders
[ ] [Priit] Yes, his actions lead to tragedy regardless of intent.
[ ] [Punishment] Extract immense fines from Priit. (-1 Legitimacy)
[ ] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship.
It sets us up to merge with the Peace Builders, or merge them with us, or something along those lines. We need better ways to increase our numbers. This is it.
@Redium If a merger happens, do we still play as the new entity?
[ ] [Reward] Raise Temple: Hill Guard 1/2 + 2/2
[ ] [Value] Peace Builders
[ ] [Priit] Yes, his actions lead to tragedy regardless of intent.
[ ] [Punishment] Extract immense fines from Priit. (-1 Legitimacy)
[ ] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship.
It sets us up to merge with the Peace Builders, or merge them with us, or something along those lines. We need better ways to increase our numbers. This is it.
@Redium If a merger happens, do we still play as the new entity?
- Location
- St. Petersburg
Forbid him to return until he slays the Ivory Chief?
It sends him away from the settlement he commited his crime in, and removes the problem unless he either does an impossible feat to redeem himself, which would be hard to spin against us, or perishes in service of the People - which is still better than executing a potential Martial hero.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If we want to punish him and keep him as a warrior we already have some perfectly good options right there. Just drop a massive fine on his head.
He's already fought the ivory chief one-on-one, and almost come away victorious. This is still nothing that anyone would see as a punishment, especially with trial by fire.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
So.... he lost? An almost in most things doesn't mean anything except to make the loser feel better.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My point is that he is already doing what that punishment mandates of him, so sparing him if he fights the ivory chief is no different from just sparing him because he's a warrior.
Exactly. He's a warrior. Raiding the Northlands requires being away from home for months on end(probably why his wife shacked up with another guy really) just on travel time alone.
Ordering him to go to the front until the enemy is dead is one of:
-Execution by exposure. Raiding seasons are fixed, and everyone pulls home for winter. if he's still raiding in winter you might as well exile him. It'd be kinder.
-Telling him his punishment is to be a glorious warrior and that he gets to have the best fight.
Different values here. A warrior is worth like 4-10 farmers/hunters based on their described wealth, based on their ability.
If you want a punishment that doesn't hurt his ability to fight then slap enormous fines on him and let that go.
- Location
- USA
Right, it looks like we lost a lot of stability from the war going south on us like it did.
It looks like our roles have expanded by a lot compared to how they were before. I wonder what all this specialization will do for us?
So in summary we're still number one at the top by a large margin. The Tribe of the West hasn't really moved from their previous position. The Peace Builders lost two prestige from getting their shit kicked in by the Northlands. I think the Island Makers and Arrow Lake have advanced upwards, while everyone else has stayed the same save for the Northlands who are steadily gaining prestige from this war.
Huh, at least it looks like our study travel roll wasn't wasted.
I'm guessing though that this was not the development we needed to turn the war around and catch up in capability as while we now have better mobility in all weather, this doesn't seem to exactly help us in terms of the trails of the Northlands does it? @Redium
That sounds par for the course. How badly did we roll?
Is this true or is this just another effect from the debilitating belief we have?
What effect will this have on the Peace Builders and their beliefs I wonder? As this could be seen as the spirits rebuking them, so I'm curious to see what these losses do to them.
From what we can tell here, while the war has been taxing so far on our warriors, overall things are much worse for the Northlands as they likely have to deal with the fact that their hunters and herders have to occupy themselves with fighting this war at the same time, which means that they won't be looking for food in that time with each hunter/herder we kill hurting their economy and tribe much worse than them killing our warriors would be.
In short so long as we continue to keep up the pressure on them, we will win this war through sheer attrition as eventually pushing them to starvation or hunger will start to hurt the tribe, decisive victories or not.
This is not too surprising considering that Aeva is an art and admin hero. Unfortunately, I am not entirely sure how much this is helping us or hurting us.
Yeah that sounds ominous.
That seems rather expensive to waste so much ivory to simply make a point, but I guess the enemy can afford to be extravagant now that they have no need to trade the ivory away.
So was this Martial Hero for the Northlands always planned or did we just roll that badly? @Redium
As is, I don't think he is one of their mounted warriors considering their description of him, so we might have an advantage in beating him in the future.
Is there any way to improve the effectiveness and the defenses of our supply lines?
I'm guessing this is the Peace Builder's Do it Or Die value in action right here? Hopefully they took many of the enemy with them.
Right, we lost this raid and learned a very important fact. We are not going to end this war anytime soon with negotiations as this war is apparently personal. The Northlands will likely stop at nothing to ruin us even if we pull back. That will simply invite them to fight it out on our territory, which could hurt us economically. The only way we are likely to win this is two fold, defeat them decisively such as by seizing their summer settlement, and by killing the Ivory-Blooded Chief. Without that, this war will likely continue until he is dead.
While it's good to hear our lack of trails is preventing our enemy from meaningfully attacking us on our own territory, I have to wonder. How exactly are we going to deal with their hit and run tactics due to the trails they have? It's not like we can burn the forest down around them.
Did our study travel roll actually help us when it came to narrowing the capability gap between us and the Northlands? And how much does the Hunt help us in terms of offensive actions?
So how exactly do we use this hunting knowledge to attrite the enemy? My best guess is that we probably allow the herbivores to boom in population, thus attracting predators, and possibly plant more plants in order to attract more predators but at the same time maintain herbivore populations.
Economically, would I be right to guess that we now time our hunts in terms of the cycle of herbivore population boom and bust?
So what exactly does the safe hunting cap represent? Does it represent how many times we can safely hunt within a certain period without overburdening the prey populations, and if so, how exactly does our locked in manage hunting action now handle that?
When it comes to manage hunting, what mechanical differences are there between it and expand hunting?
When it comes to Defensive Attrition, how noticeable is it in terms of warfare for us, and how much does it cover?
This seems to be a rather powerful value. Considering the fact that we it says Wonders in general, and not just natural wonders makes it all the more powerful in my eyes. Right now, what do our Natural Wonders, in Crystal Lake, and the Cave of Stars, actually do for us? Considering the fact that we have built up those areas, I'm guessing we now get boosts to them?
Also, when you say effects of natural resources are boosted also, does that currently apply now when it comes to say our crystal and obsidian mining even though it seems we don't truly mine for them, more so we just gather them? And if not, do we need to innovate the artificial intervention to boost their effect? Does this also apply to things we build for others such as the salterns for the Pearl Divers?
When it comes to terrain boosts, does that apply for everything such as our Great Relay and Hill, or would things like walls also be boosted as well?
Also what is the margin of error for augmenting applicable terrain as that seems rather vague as applicable is not described in full for us?
@Redium
Is this our Flat Arrow Outlook coming to bite us in the ass?
Oh joy a trial. How common is it for all three Big Men to adjudicate one of these?
Anywho, it seems like Priit is rather important to the Fangs considering how they are closing ranks around him, and considering how important they are to the war effort against the Northlands it would likely be wise to not piss them off.
Damn, it seems like we have our own Martial Hero, how timely if not for this incident.
How likely is he to assume the mantle of Big Man, assuming he survives this trial, and then defeats the Ivory-Blooded Chief in battle?
While it's clear that he is no diplo hero, is all Priit is, a martial hero?
We were going to have to deal with a situation like this in the future anyway. Nepotism is not a new phenomenon, and while we shouldn't encourage it, it's too costly right now to simply kill Priit as he is too valuable right now. While the precedent this might set will last for a long time to come, it's important to remember that precedent can change. Considering that Priit's actions, no matter the extreme outcome at the end, conform the People's beliefs, I don't think we should convict him on this. This is the Stone Age and progress takes time, we can take hits like this now, but only if we survive until later without collapsing. This was bound to happen sooner or later.
Quick question before I begin, by why Hill Guard as the Temple Location instead of say the Fingers or Crystal Lake? Wouldn't they be more fit to erect a Temple at? @Redium
Anyway, raising a Temple is my preferred choice right now. We are about to take some hits to our stability and legitimacy, things not easily gained back. As most of us already want to get started on the counter of retaining Aeva's administrative knowledge, this option is likely one of the best ways to do so, especially as it does so in one big swoop.
A festival is something we can likely do later, and right now there isn't really anything to celebrate considering how dire the war is.
We're not hurting for food right now, and we don't know the safe hunting cap yet so I would also wait on this as well.
While exploring five times would likely be the most cost effective use of this, normally five actions, considering our current state, and the fact that if we found a natural wonder we would then have to occupy it, I think this can wait.
I didn't actually know that the Raise Warriors action could be specified to just Holy Orders, but while tempting I think we can just dedicate one action to it next turn, as right now we need more stability and legitimacy to prevent potential degradation leading to a collapse.
I don't think developing things internally would be the best idea, considering what the likely outcome of this trial will be, as the honor value we gain will be an initial one, and the judgement we will likely render is not going to preferential for what we have in mind.
While getting closer to the Peace Builders is something we should strive for, especially with the knowledge that it could lead to a merger with them, I am not entirely sure we want to get the Hand or Fist honor value as that would likely constrain us in ways.
What specifically does this value do @Redium
I mean from what we know it seems to suggest that if we took it we would offer others a hand in friendship, which if another rejected would lead us to considering them our enemy? Is this accurate or is this more to it?
While Arrow Lake has some good values, that hit to legitimacy is too much for me when taken into account with what is down the road, so pass.
We don't actually know the Pearl Diver's honour values, so also pass.
The Northland's honour value, assuming they have only one, is actually very tempting, and at the cost of only legitimacy, which we have plenty of, it might allow us to avert getting an underdeveloped initial value.
The first option is one of the ones I'm favoring as it is technically true and would at least allow us to give the appearance of following traditions and laws, even though some will likely suspect nepotism.
I'm not entirely sure that we're advance enough to go for the second option in terms of the precedence it would set, let alone the fact that we really need his help and that of the Fangs to defeat the Northlands.
The third option seems like a stretch and is not something we can prove here.
The fourth option seems plausible though more flimsy than the first.
The fifth option is a straight nope, we can't afford the loss of stability right now, which is an additional loss.
The sixth option isn't worth it, we need Priit here, otherwise the Northlands hero will run us over.
I'm not entirely sure what Aeva trying to solve this extrajudicially will do for us in terms of precedence. Maybe it will expand the importance that women have in our society. Maybe it will simply encourage politics in truth as favor trading that was one implicit now becomes explicit. Either way it is a gamble in that it could either gain us stability or lose it. While Aeva is a hero she is not a Diplo hero so I'm not entirely sure of her odds of success here. This could help us get back into the Black or put us into the red.
The last one sets a really bad precedent and while true is too blunt of a choice.
Of the punishments offer my opinion is that death is too extreme both for Priit and for the stability damage. Exploit him could just cause him to form his own tribe or faction to seek vengeance. Making him a debtor is bad both in terms of stability and for the war effort as I doubt they will let him fight as one. In the end the only option I can countenance here are for the fines, as I am sure he can likely pay them, and his family and possibly order will help as well.
As for what to do about the woman. The first one doesn't exactly reflect the options I've selected above nor he facts in this case. The second option seems too harsh with the precedent being bad for marriages and our social structure. The third and fourth are what I prefer as they are more nuanced.
What exactly does herding do for us that differentiates it from simply managing hunting? Does herding, I'm guessing, allow us to easily domesticate a herdable animal or something different?
Also, in terms of the level 2 of the Hunt, do we meet the prerequisites for us yet, and do other Megaprojects also have more levels like it or is it one of the unique ones that do? I know the Relay had levels as was seen with the Fire Relay, but I'm curious to know how we can tell if something has multiple levels.
The bonus towards giving us better coordination and small unit tactics is very tempting as that will allow us to leverage our quality warriors more and allow us to multiply the power of our forces.
With the Hunt megaproject completed, how much does that help us reduce the difficulty of hunting Prize Animals like this?
When you mean super-majority, what exactly is the measure for that? Do you mean like 2/3, as in 4 out of 6 right now? Because right now that looks to be a long ways off as we only have one matching value with two different tribes.
What are our modifiers currently, and do you mean a roll of 90+ unmodded or not?
At this point it seems like we're well and truly committed as the Peace Builder's allies.
Do they not mind intermarriage with us right now? That seems curious considering how the Island Makers reacted.
Also, before this, did they see us as allies?
So in short we need to finish this war soon, as in next turn if possible, and then faster after that, otherwise we will be caught in a two front war.
How come no one has attacked the Peace Builders anyway?
Then that is a very significant development. Were the summer dog sleds that development, or do we need to try again? @Redium
How is their economy doing so far right now anyway?
Yeah, that's what we figured as well. Does it matter if we choose to raid, or if they get defeated in a raid on our territory? As in, will a win on our territory defeating their raid swing the raid counter our way?
Good to know. How far off are the Island Makers from that anyways?
I thought they just saw them as a nuisance, what changed?
How do they see us right now? It's not like we're currently ignoring them, so I hope they understand that we're busy.
What will the counter be like if we choose to take the Temple option this mid-turn?
How much longer of this can they take?
So in essence, all we need to do is ply for time then? Also, I'm guessing Priit is a martial hero, but is it just them being a hero that boosts their modifiers or are there degrees which make a difference?
Is that their only honor trait?
Otherwise, Blood Brothers seems pretty powerful for what it does, and considering we might be forming cliques soon anyway, it's not too bad of a choice.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Since we haven't had any peaceful contact with them, it's almost certainly the latter. It's mainly a way to explain their man-beasts.
Sacred war means that they see their enemies as having different spirits from them. Those spirits are the ones who will get the blame.
Not just FAO. IWTBTVB means kids get useful skills faster, heros especially. FAO means that martial heros gain skill even faster and are even more violent. Trials of adulthood means that these heros are considered adults faster than anyone else, and thus marry earlier. Retributive justice means that they see nothing wrong with killing those who wrong them. FAO means they go way overboard with it.
Sol Zagato
senseless brute
How does a summer sled work without wheels or shredding the materials quickly?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Anyway, @Japanime, to address your point on punishment
1)the circumstances that created Priit hold true for every reasonably talented warrior. If we do nothing we can expect events of this type (though not this 1v100 magnitude) to recur with some frequency
2)that value conflict I talked about a while ago hasn't gone away.For reference
Finally, to address @veekie 's Plan, I'm against trying to get him off the hook that way both for the reasons above and because going from 0 to 1 STAB(aka, i'm uncertain about my leader->I'm happy with my leaders) is a much smaller shift than 0 to -1 (i'm uncertain about my leaders -> I am definitely unhappy about my leaders). The former is a buffer against problems, the latter creates problems on it's own.
, I don't see why we can't take this particular hit.The cost of fining him for his refusal is only one more legitimacy. Given our temple ambitions, it seems quite worth it to spend that much to either directly soften FAO or (if we develop our value internally) rein it in with an honor value for being forward-thinking. Which is important, because
1)the circumstances that created Priit hold true for every reasonably talented warrior. If we do nothing we can expect events of this type (though not this 1v100 magnitude) to recur with some frequency
2)that value conflict I talked about a while ago hasn't gone away.For reference
In fact, it may well have gotten worse, because Wonderous world was the weakest of these values, now it's maxed.
Finally, to address @veekie 's Plan, I'm against trying to get him off the hook that way both for the reasons above and because going from 0 to 1 STAB(aka, i'm uncertain about my leader->I'm happy with my leaders) is a much smaller shift than 0 to -1 (i'm uncertain about my leaders -> I am definitely unhappy about my leaders). The former is a buffer against problems, the latter creates problems on it's own.
- Location
- USA
I mean, I'm fine with punishing if necessary, the option seems to ensure a punishment for Priit no matter how we rule so I don't mind taking the legitimacy hit. I just don't want to pick an option that would overly harm us in the war effort.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No, he's only punished if that's what's chosen.