Not sure about morally-correct - in-character Aerith would probably never feel morally comfortable with the idea of killing anyone - but she in particular has a lot of personal trauma associated with Hojo that would strip away a lot of her usual sympathy.
I don't think she'd do it in cold blood, but in the heat of the moment, if he was threatening to kill someone else or she was in a blind rage, I could see him being the one sole person she'd allow herself to Iose restraint over. And also one of the few people I don't think she'd stop someone else from trying to kill in cold blood, if they declared they were going to do it.
Might not ever get that chance though, because if JENOVA was able to get to Roche, there's a decent chance she might get to Hojo too. And the next time Aerith sees him, it's really his long-dead corpse being used as meatsuit by the alien he was keeping in the tank, that got out of the tank and into the same room as him.
No Nibelheim, no lab with any birth records for the man to find and go crazy over. No JENOVA corpse in the nearby reactor for him to find. There are other corpses, but we already know the one Midgar seemingly latched onto someone else completely, Roche, instead of it being Sephiroth.
Would probably try her best. But unlike canon, Sephiroth seems unlikely to voluntarily fall into mama's embrace, on account of the fact that the thing has just been eating SOLDIERs right outside Midgar (or inside, if you count Roche as the first victim). Which is something he's likely to hear about and might well be inclined to take personal offense at.
Though I guess it might not matter, if she gets strong enough that she can mind-control him to the point where she overrides any resistance he might have had.
As for what all that means in Fractured Fantasy... I'm honestly not sure if he's going to be trying to flood the world with cogna! Since his motivation is essencially a millenium-long grudge match with Alexander, I don't know how applicable it is to the merged world.
Granted, he's also merged with a force of absolute destruction, so he could very well just be trying to destroy the world for the sake of it.
Though, uh: World of Final Fantasy has some crazy background lore in general... And only parts of it are actually told/shown to the player. So there's a lot of wiggle room you have to fill in the blanks, and I don't know what the GM's decisions were for the quest.
I mean, from a meta perspective it's pretty obvious that Brandelis wants something destructive to the planet. Unless Lann and Brandelis just... hate each other on sight. But I kind of figure his goal would be the same as in WoFF, fill the world with Cogna. He'd be fun to face though, he has a fun final dungeon for sure and I love the FFV references in his weapons.
And on the Sephiroth stuff I'm cautiously optimistic we can redeem him. I don't think it'll be easy, but I do think it's notable that Aerith's enemy is JENOVA, not Sephiroth. Implies that at least there is some chance of helping fix him. Which uh... man, that'll be crazy for her to deal with if so.
And on the Sephiroth stuff I'm cautiously optimistic we can redeem him. I don't think it'll be easy, but I do think it's notable that Aerith's enemy is JENOVA, not Sephiroth. Implies that at least there is some chance of helping fix him. Which uh... man, that'll be crazy for her to deal with if so.
Sephiroth got transplanted from early enough in the timeline that it isn't so much a matter of fixing him, as keeping him from breaking.
The guy was actually a pretty nice fellow early in life if Ever Crisis was anything to go by. In fact, he and Angeal were the only reasons Cloud, Tifa and Aerith weren't stuck wearing Slave Crowns during the FFVI crossover mission (yeah, Kefka actually managed to put Slave Crowns on them and was about to have them murder the Returners, when Sephiroth and Angeal showed up, took all 3 down and got the Crowns removed).
With Nibelheim seemingly not here and JENOVA stuck with Roche and presently licking her wounds, I give Sephiroth pretty good odds at staying sane. It's true Hojo might still be able to find a way to break him but with Shinra no longer the most powerful faction around, I think it's unlikely Hojo would want to try, they still need Sephiroth and his fighting skills too much.
So this is how the beloved 5-8-9 Dissidia Squad starts--With Seifer putting all of them on his List!
I really liked this! Good look into Seifer and how he thinks, as well as just... Getting what kind of person he is across.
It's true Hojo might still be able to find a way to break him but with Shinra no longer the most powerful faction around, I think it's unlikely Hojo would want to try, they still need Sephiroth and his fighting skills too much.
I... I don't think Hojo cares about "we still need him to fight against the other factions"...
And while, yes, I don't think Aerith is the type of person to plan his murder, it's more that... I feel like Hojo is one of those guys who, if FF7 was a game with an alignment meter, you wouldn't get "evil" or otherwise negative alignment points for killing.
Ok that can be done. Sorry @griffinlw but I will make those changes to Bartz Color at my earliest convenience.
As for Aerith Saving Sephiroth. Well it'll definitely won't be easy on our heroine psyche. I do think though that if possible we should somehow keep an eye on Genesis and Angeal. Offering them support when their unfortunate condition happens (
From my understanding both Genesis and Angeal suffer from side effects of imperfect JENOVA Cell fusion Procedure which causes their bodies to degrade at accelerated rate reveal of which is why Genesis turned on Shinra.
) could bring them on our side instead of taking Canon Route. If we stop them spiraling out we could maybe convince Sephiroth.
Also their status is why I'm definitely against Crisis Averted achievement. All three of those guys especially Angeal and Sephiroth are very important to Zack and their canon fate while dooming Zack was what made him see Shinra for what it is... Killing them would definitely set Zack against us.
The whole angle with Genesis and Angeal also gives opportunity if we get ourselves a 'medicine based' organization. If we can develop a cure, or even a treatment for Angeal, and perhaps even end up being the one to break the news to Sephiroth in a more controlled way, we could prevent them going full villain.
There's a couple of moments in the original game as well. He's distant, certainly, but he's concerned about the Shinra Grunts, to the point he asks about how Cloud is feeling being back in Nibelheim and gives Cloud time off. His combat AI is also set to prioritise keeping Cloud alive in the original (which can lead to an unintended situation where he will keep ressing Cloud only for Cloud to immediately get put back on the floor, prompting Sephiroth to res him in a loop).
Rebirth also doubled down on it. He's visibly upset at the unnamed Shinra trooper getting washed down river, and he's willing to banter with Tifa in a friendly way. Again, distant, but not an ass. If anything, he's remarkably well adjusted for someone who was raised in a lab by Shinra.
Sephiroth's definitely on the list of antagonists who could be turned. Leo is another one, though he might arguably be harder to get to flip than Sephiroth is.
I wonder if it would be possible to stabilize them using blood/cells from Cloud. But we can at the very least prevent them from spiraling down if we manage to get to them before shit goes down.
Oh I just meant more in a meta sense. It's kind of tricky to tell his exact train of though way back when but he at least didn't seem to be a full on bad guy. That said I'm unsure how likely it is keeping him from falling.
Just to throw my two gil into the situation at hand, I remember... Something saying that Hojo set up the files that made Sephy go insane. So if we don't snipe him down, he might just set somethingelse up to make Sephy snap.
It's true Hojo might still be able to find a way to break him but with Shinra no longer the most powerful faction around, I think it's unlikely Hojo would want to try, they still need Sephiroth and his fighting skills too much.
Hmm, you'll never find anyone more enthusiastic about villain redemptions than me (that was one of my first reactions when I found out about the Remake's time travel shenanigans: "Can Aerith redeem Sephiroth?") But I'd like to caution against thinking it'll be easy, or a simple matter of preventing the Nibelheim incident. What made Sephiroth finally lose it wasn't stepping into the Shinra Manor or reading specific research notes. It was losing all the people he had a positive relationship with, feeling such a gulf between him and others that he suspected he wasn't even human, and lacking any real purpose for himself (because Shinra sure as shit hadn't repaid his loyalty, but at the same time he didn't know where else to go). These conditions are what made him susceptible to a voice in hus head saying, "It is I, your mother, Jenova. You are my super special chosen one and it is your destiny to rule this planet in my name, now kill all these inferior beings!" And, unfortunately, loneliness, a lack of purpose, and general isolation from humanity are pretty much endemic among the enhanced super soldiers working for an amoral megacorporation, as demonstrated in this very quest by Roche! We should also not discount the possibility of Hojo trying something fucky, because the man has never let 'common sense' get in the way of mad science and I think he might have been under Jenova's influence as well from all the nonsense he was doing to himself.
And, finally, keeping Sephiroth from falling to Jenova isn't even the only requirement of a redemption. A Sephiroth who doesn't listen to her is a Sephiroth who still works for Shinra. If Aerith and Sephiroth confronted each other right now, he would still be trying to kill her, just for stealing company research instead of 'die, Cetraaaaa'! We would need to break his faith in the company, and give him something else to be loyal to.
I... I don't think Hojo cares about "we still need him to fight against the other factions"...
And while, yes, I don't think Aerith is the type of person to plan his murder, it's more that... I feel like Hojo is one of those guys who, if FF7 was a game with an alignment meter, you wouldn't get "evil" or otherwise negative alignment points for killing.
I'll correct that - Hojo might want to try out of morbid curiosity, but both Hojo and Sephiroth would probably be kept too busy by all the other executives wanting them to provide solutions to Midgar's laundry list of new enemies for Hojo to get a lot of opportunity to mess with Sephiroth. And with all the new things for Hojo to mess with and butcher in this new world, I also figure it would rank pretty low down his priority list of things to play around with.
Garnet and Steiner kept him pretty occupied before. Now that they're gone, I bet Hojo would still be more interested in, say, getting a hold of a L'Cie and dissecting them, before anything to do with breaking Sephiroth. In fact, given Midgar are allied with Yusnaan, they might already have gotten hold of a Sanctum L'Cie from one of the skirmishes and have them sitting in Hojo's lab (in which case, heaven help the poor thing).
Aerith actually compared Kefka to Hojo during the FFVI crossover mission in Ever Crisis. There are things wrong inside the heads of both, the only difference is that Hojo was seemingly born that way. In Rebirth, Aerith refused to try and kill him in cold blood at Costa Del Sol, but admitted she had dark thoughts about what she'd like to do.
I like to think her prefered solution to Hojo, if she could have managed it, would have been to give him a Change-of-Heart Persona 5-style, magically endowing him with a sudden sense of empathy and then watching him suffer a complete nervous breakdown, where he ends up finishing himself off.
Sephiroth's definitely on the list of antagonists who could be turned. Leo is another one, though he might arguably be harder to get to flip than Sephiroth is.
IMO, the best way to "flip" Leo would just be to replace his boss.
Sadly, with the amount of time it would take to do that, his boss is liable to try get rid of Leo himself by sending him on a suicide mission or just getting Kefka to stab him in the back like at Thamasa.
So the second best way would probably be to intercede in that inevitable attempt and save him before he actually ends up getting disposed of. Of course, that method runs into the problem of knowing when Gestahl intends to do it and being able to get ahead of it.
.......Though then again, with the upcoming crisis in the Gestahlian Empire, it is entirely possible the Emperor might suffer an unfortunate accident during the whole incident, meaning it might not take as much time for him to get replaced as expected.
@Vocalist
This is why I believe that to redeem Sephiroth we need to save Angeal and Genesis. Those two are in the end his closest friends. So close that he pinned his hopes on sending Zack to Angeal and Genesis' hometown just because he believed Zack could bring them back (something he didn't believe he can do). And while Shinra's not going to provide it and Aerith's definitely not yet mentally ready for this he needs more people around him that treat him as human.
Part of the reason I'm happy to have put Caraway with Leo. On one hand, Caraway is not a good guy. He's worked for a pretty terrible regime and until the Sorceress was in the picture he was pretty happy to do that. But it makes Leo a bit less easily disposed of.
This is why I believe that to redeem Sephiroth we need to save Angeal and Genesis. Those two are in the end his closest friends. So close that he pinned his hopes on sending Zack to Angeal and Genesis' hometown just because he believed Zack could bring them back (something he didn't believe he can do). And while Shinra's not going to provide it and Aerith's definitely not yet mentally ready for this he needs more people around him that treat him as human.
And while Shinra's not going to provide it and Aerith's definitely not yet mentally ready for this he needs more people around him that treat him as human.
Hell yeah hopefully someone more skilled than I will pick it (although if they won't I'll do it myself even if I'll have to torture you with my writing style xD)
I suddenly had an inspiration. A character that might be able to connect with Sephiroth in some way about not knowing your own origins, but finding out that you're kind of a living weapon, a science experiment
But also, if Jenova is looking for someone easily manipulated, torn apart from his friends, whose past is also kind of murky, and who's actually primed to want to fulfill a 'supportive' function for a feminine figure with magic powers? Seifer Almasy is right there.
Chosen Vote: Swallow your frustration, encourage them: 51
You turn to look at the faces of your team in the dressing room. The looks of frustration and anger at their loss are warping into something else. Shame. Fear. They seem to be trying to avoid your gaze.
You're way too familiar with someone making you feel like that to want to give that to someone else. These people aren't like your teammates back home. In a way the Aurochs were had more confidence, even if these guys were better disciplined.
You take a deep breath, your bruised ribs protesting at the pressure, swallow your frustration and then breathe out. "Alright. Enough of that. This sucked. If losing doesn't sting, then you weren't really trying. But we're gonna get them next time, alright?"
Deris perks up a bit. "I mean. I think maybe if we... play a passing game. I think maybe..."
You raise your hand. "Nope. We're gonna talk about what we're doing different after a good rest. Trust me, we're just gonna make ourselves feel bad. Right now, what we need is getting a hot shower, drink plenty of water and rest a while. We'll talk about how we're gonna do better when we're back in Midgar, alright?" You know you saw some errors on the field that if you're gonna critique them now, you're probably gonna make them feel like crap.
"Yes captain." They say. You don't imagine any of 'em are going to complain about that.
"Alright, huddle. Next time, the Ronso are going down! Mastiff pack!"
"Mastiff Pack!" They all echo, and after that, you all to the 'awooo' thing that Burin started.
"Hit the showers!"
Tidus gains 15 stress for holding back his feelings
Tidus rolls a 87+20:117 on his Motivation roll.
Morale of the team goes from normal back to solid.
Relations with everyone on the team improved.
A few days later, back in Midgar, you can at least let out all your frustration over drinks with Zack. "I mean, I don't even get what those Ronso get out of playing like that, right? Yeah, it's a physical sport, but there's supposed to be more to it than 'knock the ball free, grab it and then swim to right up to the goal beating everyone in your path! I mean, I guess they play to their strenght but let's have a game you know."
Zach smiles impishly. "I thought playing to win was the most important. They won right?"
"Yeah well... next time we'll be ready for them! And they'll see what such a limited tactic gets them." You say, not letting reason get in the way of a good rant. "Ugh, and Firous' is still on light training with his ribs. Guy gave it his all trying to get in the way of them. And the worst thing is, these guys live on the mountains!"
"It's not like Midgar is coastal exactly."
"Yeah, but most of the team came to work for Shinra from Costa Del Sol, or Juno or something." You lean back. "At least the boss didn't seem too angry about it. I think. He just gave me one of those long looks and said 'I expect you will draw lessons from this'" He did his best Rufus impression.
Zack chuckles. "Who knows. Well, at least folks werent too bummed out about it. Everyone's been talking about the Loveless play."
And that is enough to get you going again. "Maybe I want them to care a bit more, you know? I mean, I don't want people to be all mopy but... you know, maybe be a little bit sad about it." You look into your drink. "What's with the security by the way. Something happened while we were away?"
"Oh yes, something happened. Can't go in the details. But a certain young Turk got his ass chewed out."
You switch from, not whining, you don't whine, you just vent your legitimate frustrations to a more sharp tone. "Good, I hope he gets booted out. Maybe that'll shrink that oversized head of his."
Zach raises an eyebrow. "Wow, the guy's a jerk but I didn't think I've ever seen you that pissed at someone."
You take a sip. "He just reminds me of someone." You aren't 't going to tell Zach Seifer reminds you of your father. Zach will never let you live it down. You shake your head. Honestly, who cares what happened. "So... you been thinking about the proposal. I mean, you don't have to commit right away. Just come ot some training sessions. Would be good for the team to practice against someone physically stronger."
"I'm not that good a swimmer. Besides, I'm working on something right now, Tidus, maybe later."
"Boo," You take one of the crackers that were served with the drinks and toss it at him, which he tosses with superlative reflexes. "See, you'd be great. You could be a keeper. Don't need to swim often."
"You never give up, do you?"
"Never!" You say proudly. "Speaking of which, about Sephiroth..."
Zach rolled his eyes. "You're not getting Sephiroth to join your team, Tidus. He's a legend."
"All the more reason why he should join! That'd get people's eyes on Blizball. And it's great exercise!"
Your further efforts to poach members of the SOLDIER program for the Blitzball team sadly go unrewarded. -10 stress,
Increased relation with Zack Fair
Impact of loss on Blitzball popularity reduced because of Theatre Play event.
Pick one individual training action for each player, and one action for the team as a whole. Progressing Team Cohesion has the possibility to develop team work Feats
Firous, thanks to the critical fumble will not be getting an individual training action. He will be present at the training but on light regime while his injuries are healing.
Tidus can pick two training actions for himself, or one on himself and one to support a teammate.
Publicity:
Now that your string of victories have come to an end, it's all the more important to make sure that the people of Midgar don't think of Blitzball as a fad that has run its course. How are you going to vix that.
[]TV commercials: (cost: 500): Record a TV commercial. It's selling out a bit maybe, but ti's selling out for Blitzball.
[]Public Event (cost 250 gil): You're a charming guy. You're sure you can get some people fired up talking about it.
[]Public match: (Locked) : Currenty there are no other teams to have friendly matches, let alone a local league.
[]Spread the Word to Timber 300 gil: Timber is just connected by a train right? Maybe they can have a team or something. Timber Wolves? Nah, too close to the Mastiffs. Timber Owls maybe? No, that's a stupid name. (If this action is chosen, you will not be able to do training actions in Midgar)
Scouting:
Possble targets
[]Zack Fair: (good relations, but your recruitment roll failed because of the penalty from the event)
[]Seifer Almasy: (Poor relations, bad team work but definitely has the physicality.
[]Reno: (Still sore about making him look bad in front of the boss)
[]Rude: (Ditto)
[]Sephiroth: (needs a good write in how you're gonna get close to him)
[ ]Ask for more candidates from the ranks of Shinra grunts: 200 Gil.
[ ]Visit Timber and see if you can recruit people there: 300 gil
Personal:
[ ]Talk to Zack: Your best buddy here and sounding board. Him and Kunsel have some work stuff going on. But you might get something out of him.
[ ]Try to reach out ot Wakka: Yeah, he's pretty pissed, but you wanna try to make him realize this is you trying to help avoid a war and beat Sin.
[ ]Look into Yuna: If Wakka is willing to go back to Blitzball, what does that mean?
[ ]Try to get to talk to Sephiroth: Hey, why not. Guy's kind of a superstar, right? Well, You were a big deal too. Sure you have a lot to talk about. Give a write in how you want to approach him.
[ ] Talk to Seifer: He's one of the other prominent 'Outsiders' that are with Shinra right now, but your relation is pretty dire right now. If you vote for this, give a write in how you're appracohing it.
[ ]Talk to Reeve: (Can only be taken in combination with one of the option that takes you to Timber): Guy's always look pretty damn stressed, maybe you can talk to him to get him to relax.
[ ]Go find out what that business that Zach is talking about is. Security is raised but will you let that stop you?
You're making me feel bad that Tidus lost now! He was doing so well until he had to square up against the big muscular cat men. Also, good call on him being friends with Zack. This one is actually close enough to canon that I'm considering making it a Sidestory.
In addition to the usual Negaquest rewards, I'll tack on a special one for you.
4 EXP, given to the party's lowest level member (in this case, Agnea)
A question, anything that isn't too spoilery or too far in the future. I'll answer if I can, if I can't, I'll tell you and get you to ask another.
I'll roll on the Chaos table a few times, and let you pick which one occurs next turn as an "extra" chaos event. It won't replace the one already set to occur next turn.
15 QP.
An upgrade to Tidus's "Team Captain" trait that lets him add half his diplomacy to rolls for Blitzball games (coordination)
You're making me feel bad that Tidus lost now! He was doing so well until he had to square up against the big muscular cat men. Also, good call on him being friends with Zack. This one is actually close enough to canon that I'm considering making it a Sidestory.
In addition to the usual Negaquest rewards, I'll tack on a special one for you.
4 EXP, given to the party's lowest level member (in this case, Agnea)
A question, anything that isn't too spoilery or too far in the future. I'll answer if I can, if I can't, I'll tell you and get you to ask another.
I'll roll on the Chaos table a few times, and let you pick which one occurs next turn as an "extra" chaos event. It won't replace the one already set to occur next turn.
15 QP.
An upgrade to Tidus's "Team Captain" trait that lets him add half his diplomacy to rolls for Blitzball games (coordination)
Oooh, tempting with that one. But you know, it's good that Tidus has to fight for his victories. And a humbling now and then will perhaps keep him from going completely ham with the risk taking. Besides, there might be opportunities where I really want Aerith to succeed. I'll take the 15 QP this time.
