Wasn't Akiha feeding him lifeforce to prevent... Evil alternate personality shenanigans or something?
....aw fuck. I didn't realize that was a constant drain, I thought it was a one time deal.

This....is going to get ugly.

Unless we have a way to save Shiki and fix this, and Arc listens to us. Hard sell.

And I don't think anyone will like the idea of offering Arc the Grail to try and fix Shiki.

...Well...if prana did the trick, Rin can set up a contract with Shiki? Dunno if that would work. She'd definitely need to be alive, and I don't like giving Rin leverage on Arc.



[ ] Have her take the body up to the temple.
- [ ] Explain that when you make a promise, you keep it. You won't make a promise that keeps you from defending your friends. You'd rather deal with Arcueid's retribution.




If we don't return to the castle, does that mean we can negotiate this sorta ceasefire with Arc?
 
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If we don't return to the castle, does that mean we can negotiate this sorta ceasefire with Arc?
Negotiations would probably be better held in place of one of the base options, possibly with a rider for adopting one of those positions in case negotiations fail. Something to do besides return to the castle would be something like taking Ilya on a shopping trip (if stores are open at midnight) or seeing how Shirou is doing.
 
[X] Make the promise and have her take the body back personally.
-[X] Explain the situation with the Shadow, with Ilya assisting on the specific consequences to the city once it goes on a rampage. You will make all effort to adhere to the spirit and word of your promise, but you won't let it stop you from protecting your friends if they come to harm. Ask for an exemption for fighting the Shadow, specifically in it's lair near the temple.
-[X] If she refuses, just make the promise and return to the castle.

Wasn't Akiha feeding him lifeforce to prevent... Evil alternate personality shenanigans or something?
Ooooh, right. Akiha was sharing half her life with him! And that was because SHIKI went nuts and greatly... injured Shiki? Killed Shiki? Kinda forgot.

...Oh dear, we really want to bug out soon if Arcueid finds out about THAT part.
What happened was:
-RoaSHIKI stabbed Shiki and set up a life leeching connection with his Mystic Eyes of Life Perception.
-Akiha thought Shiki was going to die, so she hit SHIKI with her draining hair, which put SHIKI into critical lifeforce depletion, leading to him draining Shiki of more lifeforce to stay alive. But due to Roa's creeping possession, he's now part vampire.
-Akiha then set up a familiar bond with Shiki to transfer her lifeforce to him.

HOWEVER, SHIKI's lifedrain is incapable of killing Shiki on it's own. This is an actual plot point in the Far Side routes, unlike Death Perception, he can take away life with it, but he cannot bring death.

ADDITIONALLY, if Kagetsu Tohya happened, Shiki has a familiar bond with Len, who's a succubus, and could replenish him via draining others with lewd dreams.

Therefore if SHIKI dies, heals, or becomes Roa, the connection will stop draining Shiki. Shiki is also likely to recover unless something kills him while weakened or he just starves.
This is something easy for Arcrueid to solve, if only she knows anything about magic so she can maul the right person.
 
This is something easy for Arcrueid to solve, if only she knows anything about magic so she can maul the right person.
Said person might already be death at this point and it could be just an effect of the connection breaking via Akiha dying, however. Actually, given Ciel is perma death, Roa should be gone. In that case, Shiki should recover with time.
 
Negotiations would probably be better held in place of one of the base options, possibly with a rider for adopting one of those positions in case negotiations fail.

Gotcha.



[X] Attempt negotiations
- [X] Explain that when you make a promise, you keep it. You won't make a promise that keeps you from defending your friends. You'd rather deal with Arcueid's retribution; her wrath is a price you are willing to pay, should you be forced into combat. And considering
- [X] Arc clearly doesn't want to be here, and wants to return to Shiki. You can sympathize with that position. While you aren't willing to offer an oath that severely curtails your ability to defend your allies, perhaps the two of you can find a way to meet in the middle.
- [X] If negotiations fail, have her take the body up to the temple.


Since IIRC Flan takes her promises extremely seriously, if they're not outright unbreakable due to vampire nature, I'd really rather not take this risk just to keep Arc's feathers from being ruffled, especially not if negotiation is on the table.
 
[X] Attempt negotiations
- [X] Explain that when you make a promise, you keep it. You won't make a promise that keeps you from defending your friends. You'd rather deal with Arcueid's retribution; her wrath is a price you are willing to pay, should you be forced into combat. And considering
- [X] Arc clearly doesn't want to be here, and wants to return to Shiki. You can sympathize with that position. While you aren't willing to offer an oath that severely curtails your ability to defend your allies, perhaps the two of you can find a way to meet in the middle.
- [X] If negotiations fail, have her take the body up to the temple.

Can Flandre really do nothing against Arcuied? Is she that far out of Flandres level that she can just order her around like she was nothing?

She CAN but there are 50/50 change of succeed or fail since Arcuied her self is also bullshit powerful but even if Flan manage to kill her, the backlash from Arc's death will pretty much kill everyone in the city.

That's why peoples doesn't really want to fight her since there is nothing to gain from that.
 
She CAN but there are 50/50 change of succeed or fail since Arcuied her self is also bullshit powerful but even if Flan manage to kill her, the backlash from Arc's death will pretty much kill everyone in the city.

That's why peoples doesn't really want to fight her since there is nothing to gain from that.

There's also the fact that Arc made an arrangement with someone if we didn't show.

Now the people Arc would need or want to call a favor in from is pretty short, but main name topping the list?

Zelretch.

Who already has an interest in the area mentioned in Remilia's interlude, and Rin is making or has finished the Jeweled Sword. Top that with Arc possibly calling in a favor...

Well. We might not want to assume those rods we have will get us out of here scot-free, if we piss off Arc. Zelretch is one of the few people who could plausibly block our escape. Or just drag us back to the Nasu verse to face Arc's judgement.

I want to say Flan could kill Zelretch relatively easily, but....that dimension hopping might actually keep Flan from getting a good bead on him. Especially if he can do it without Flan ever getting a look at him.
 
So, quick question; does Arc know and or care about the Grail overflowing and possibly killing all she's known and loved?
I'm just wondering whether it's her alien morality that's making her not give two shits about what has been happening over in Fuyuki and the possible dangers.
I'm also pretty sure she has by choice and will locked away the majority of her power to keeping her natural bloodlust and monstrous nature at bay, correct?
So why not help out even a little considering with Flan's help this problem could be solved quite easily and expediently without much involvement from Shiki?
Just a question I'm wondering.
Have a great time on this quest of yours.
Bye
 
[X] Attempt negotiations
- [X] Explain that when you make a promise, you keep it. You won't make a promise that keeps you from defending your friends. You'd rather deal with Arcueid's retribution; her wrath is a price you are willing to pay, should you be forced into combat. And considering
- [X] Arc clearly doesn't want to be here, and wants to return to Shiki. You can sympathize with that position. While you aren't willing to offer an oath that severely curtails your ability to defend your allies, perhaps the two of you can find a way to meet in the middle.
- [X] If negotiations fail, have her take the body up to the temple.
 
Votes are not locked.
[X] Make the promise and have her take the body back personally.
- [X] Return to the castle.
3

[X] Have her take the body up to the temple.
-[X]Return to the castle.
1

[X] Make the promise and have her take the body back personally.
-[X] Explain the situation with the Shadow, with Ilya assisting on the specific consequences to the city once it goes on a rampage. You will make all effort to adhere to the spirit and word of your promise, but you won't let it stop you from protecting your friends if they come to harm. Ask for an exemption for fighting the Shadow, specifically in it's lair near the temple.
-[X] If she refuses, just make the promise and return to the castle.
1

[X] Attempt negotiations
- [X] Explain that when you make a promise, you keep it. You won't make a promise that keeps you from defending your friends. You'd rather deal with Arcueid's retribution; her wrath is a price you are willing to pay, should you be forced into combat. And considering
- [X] Arc clearly doesn't want to be here, and wants to return to Shiki. You can sympathize with that position. While you aren't willing to offer an oath that severely curtails your ability to defend your allies, perhaps the two of you can find a way to meet in the middle.
- [X] If negotiations fail, have her take the body up to the temple.
3
 
So, quick question; does Arc know and or care about the Grail overflowing and possibly killing all she's known and loved?
I'm just wondering whether it's her alien morality that's making her not give two shits about what has been happening over in Fuyuki and the possible dangers.

She's said she doesn't want to get involved. And at the time, fair enough, we're clearly willing to do the job and Arc isn't really losing anything but time away from Shiki, and may have been getting a favor in return.

Now that Shiki is in considerable more danger, I'm kinda hoping she'll bend a bit more. Either on giving us a freer hand, or possibly by going fuck it, help and end this entire goddamn mess in an evening before leaving for Shiki and Flan leaving for another world.

Honestly I'd considering asking, but Arc hasn't been very helpful. She's quite used to being the big stick in this universe and has no reason to fear Flan, as far as I think she knows. And since calling her on this pretty much takes us to endgame against someone who could legitimately take us, we have to play along.

Hopefully this experience gives Flan more appreciation for the shit she puts Remilia through. Arc is pretty much being Flan right now, and Flan is trying to be Remilia.
 
She's said she doesn't want to get involved. And at the time, fair enough, we're clearly willing to do the job and Arc isn't really losing anything but time away from Shiki, and may have been getting a favor in return.

Now that Shiki is in considerable more danger, I'm kinda hoping she'll bend a bit more. Either on giving us a freer hand, or possibly by going fuck it, help and end this entire goddamn mess in an evening before leaving for Shiki and Flan leaving for another world.

Honestly I'd considering asking, but Arc hasn't been very helpful. She's quite used to being the big stick in this universe and has no reason to fear Flan, as far as I think she knows. And since calling her on this pretty much takes us to endgame against someone who could legitimately take us, we have to play along.

Hopefully this experience gives Flan more appreciation for the shit she puts Remilia through. Arc is pretty much being Flan right now, and Flan is trying to be Remilia.

Remilia is sitting somewhere in her castle, sipping tea and smiling as she watches Flan isn't she... She probably finds the irony just as entertaining as we do :D.
 
Votes are not locked.
[X] Make the promise and have her take the body back personally.
- [X] Return to the castle.
3

[X] Have her take the body up to the temple.
-[X]Return to the castle.
1

[X] Make the promise and have her take the body back personally.
-[X] Explain the situation with the Shadow, with Ilya assisting on the specific consequences to the city once it goes on a rampage. You will make all effort to adhere to the spirit and word of your promise, but you won't let it stop you from protecting your friends if they come to harm. Ask for an exemption for fighting the Shadow, specifically in it's lair near the temple.
-[X] If she refuses, just make the promise and return to the castle.
1

[X] Attempt negotiations
- [X] Explain that when you make a promise, you keep it. You won't make a promise that keeps you from defending your friends. You'd rather deal with Arcueid's retribution; her wrath is a price you are willing to pay, should you be forced into combat. And considering
- [X] Arc clearly doesn't want to be here, and wants to return to Shiki. You can sympathize with that position. While you aren't willing to offer an oath that severely curtails your ability to defend your allies, perhaps the two of you can find a way to meet in the middle.
- [X] If negotiations fail, have her take the body up to the temple.
3
So, due to the tie, voting will be open a while longer. Don't know how long :/
 
[X] Attempt negotiations
- [X] Explain that when you make a promise, you keep it. You won't make a promise that keeps you from defending your friends. You'd rather deal with Arcueid's retribution; her wrath is a price you are willing to pay, should you be forced into combat. And considering
- [X] Arc clearly doesn't want to be here, and wants to return to Shiki. You can sympathize with that position. While you aren't willing to offer an oath that severely curtails your ability to defend your allies, perhaps the two of you can find a way to meet in the middle.
- [X] If negotiations fail, have her take the body up to the temple.
 
Votes are locked.
[X] Make the promise and have her take the body back personally.
- [X] Return to the castle.
3

[X] Have her take the body up to the temple.
-[X]Return to the castle.
1

[X] Make the promise and have her take the body back personally.
-[X] Explain the situation with the Shadow, with Ilya assisting on the specific consequences to the city once it goes on a rampage. You will make all effort to adhere to the spirit and word of your promise, but you won't let it stop you from protecting your friends if they come to harm. Ask for an exemption for fighting the Shadow, specifically in it's lair near the temple.
-[X] If she refuses, just make the promise and return to the castle.
1

[X] Attempt negotiations
- [X] Explain that when you make a promise, you keep it. You won't make a promise that keeps you from defending your friends. You'd rather deal with Arcueid's retribution; her wrath is a price you are willing to pay, should you be forced into combat. And considering
- [X] Arc clearly doesn't want to be here, and wants to return to Shiki. You can sympathize with that position. While you aren't willing to offer an oath that severely curtails your ability to defend your allies, perhaps the two of you can find a way to meet in the middle.
- [X] If negotiations fail, have her take the body up to the temple.
4
 
Negotiation
[X] Attempt negotiations
- [X] Explain that when you make a promise, you keep it. You won't make a promise that keeps you from defending your friends. You'd rather deal with Arcueid's retribution; her wrath is a price you are willing to pay, should you be forced into combat. And considering
- [X] Arc clearly doesn't want to be here, and wants to return to Shiki. You can sympathize with that position. While you aren't willing to offer an oath that severely curtails your ability to defend your allies, perhaps the two of you can find a way to meet in the middle.
- [X] If negotiations fail, have her take the body up to the temple.


You sigh and look down at your feet. She's being so difficult, but … if you were in her position – no, if you were in her position, death of the contractor would null the deal unless it was agreed otherwise beforehand. And you'd probably kill whoever was responsible, especially if you didn't like the person responsible. You look back up at the vampire.

"… Arcueid, when I make promises, I keep them. Whether it's to meet someone, to fight or not fight, or anything. This promise you want me to make that would let you go back to Shiki – I can't make it. I won't make it, because it runs the risk of forcing me to not help my friends." You gesture back at Ilya and Sella but keep your gaze fixed on Arcueid. "I doubt you would be gone very long, and I don't want Ilya to go anywhere until she's more recovered, but the possibility exists that fighting with the shadow-thing could break out here at the temple, or even in the city, and if that happens then the promise you want me to make would require that I let my friends fight without me. I won't do that, Arcueid – I would rather fight openly, knowing that you are watching and simply waiting to strike with all your strength. Your wrath, focused on me, is a price I would gladly pay to fight for them." She sighs and waves her hand dismissively.

"No need for dramatics, you know. A simple answer works pretty well." You shake your head.

"You don't want to stay here on the off-chance that I'll do something; you want to go back to Shiki and get on with your life. I'm not going to agree to a promise that will keep me from protecting my friends and ally, but I'm sure we can …." Arcueid tosses the bag to the side and runs a hand through her hair before giving you an exasperated look.

"A simple answer works. I've seen what you're trying to fight, and I'm not impressed, so don't expect me to treat you as anything approaching an equal. You don't get to bargain or appeal, you get the options I give you. Or you can try to fight me, and then I kill you and then go back to Shiki. But we both know how that will end, don't we?" She smirks confidently. If she met Rider's Master … then, right after you called her? Or … she said she wouldn't deal fairly with you if you didn't bring Ilya, and that she made a deal with someone in case Ilya didn't come with you. Did she somehow make a deal with it? How could she know how to contact it, or get it to listen? "Well?" You and Arcueid trade scowls as she grows impatient.

"Fine. Like I said, I'm not making a promise that will force me to stand by and not help my friends if something happens, so I guess you'd better leave her body upstairs and go back to wherever you've been waiting."

"Haha! That's good, good." Instead of doing anything, however, Arcueid sits on the wet steps and leans back. "Go on; I'll just sit here and keep an eye on you until you get back in the car and head back to your home." She preens under your glare.

"Flan." You turn back to Ilya to see her wave you closer. "Let's go, Flan." She sounds tired, and you shoot one more dark look at Arcueid before working your way back into the car, making sure Ilya is as comfortable as she can be. Her breathing is a heavier than normal as she leans into you, resting her head against your shoulder, and you brush her hair as the car pulls away from the temple.

"Are you okay, Ilya?" She nods, head still resting on your shoulder.

"I'll be fine. Just … you didn't feel it?" You glance sidelong at her, then at Sella, and if she seems worried, Ilya seems like coiled steel slowly untwisting. You're pretty sure you didn't do anything – your parasol didn't twist or warp, so if you did, it must have been pretty low-key – but between your worry for Ilya's safety, your tension about the rain, and your irritation about Arcueid, it's possible that you didn't notice Arcueid doing something. You wrap your arms gently around her.

"I'm sorry, Ilya." She shakes her head.

"It's fine, Flan." Her breathing returns to normal, and you quietly hum a lullaby. Everything seems to be going well and you're well along the road to the castle when Ilya spasms and tries to wrench herself upright. "Stop! Stop the car!" Even as she finishes and Sella slams her foot on the brake pedal you feel the surge of power ahead of you, beyond the curve of the road. Sella wasn't driving particularly fast, but with the wet road and the rain still coming down, the car spins as it makes the turn, and she and Ilya both gasp in pain as the seat belts clamp down. But you see the black-armored swordswoman, curiously dark-glowing blade held aloft – mere meters from the hood of the car. Your left hand instinctively curls around her eye, but you're too close. If the power bundled around the sword goes off, Ilya won't survive. She has you in the perfect spot, yet she doesn't attack. She isn't likely to give you much time, however ….


What do you do?

[ ] Use two clones to try and bog down Saber while you and another clone carry Ilya and Sella away.

[ ] Leave Ilya and Sella in the car and dogpile Saber together with all your clones.

[ ] Other?
 
[X] Use two clones to try and bog down Saber while you and another clone carry Ilya and Sella away.
 
Welp, now we know what happed to Saber.....fuck..

Also Arcueid, of course you won't be impress with how Flan fight because Flan don't fight when she's serious, she destroy, you won't have a time to be impress when you will be instantly gib by her doesn't it?.
 
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Huh. I would thought Arc would have worried a bit more to get back to Shiki. Guess it wasn't enough to work as leverage.

As for Saber....if we get the chance I totally want to drain Saber, she's filling on her own and we might get at the Shadow that way.

Kinda wondering how Saber still has that near precognitive bit of Instinct working despite being Alter, cause I'm fairly sure we'd have known if the Shadow or Alter spied on us as we broke the Tohno entourage.

Much more pressingly, how the hell did Alter sneak up on Herk like that? Or is that a part of HF I forgot, and Alter can't be detected by the usual Servants/Masters feel other Servants coming?

Oh well.

Well, here's an alternative to running, if @Entropy Judge approves: Herk acts as a giant blast shield for Ilya to mitigate damage, Flan breaks Alter's eye, and hopefully Ilya survives by Herk tanking the hit for her.

Alternatively, tell Ilya to burn a Command Seal to get her oughta here or keep her alive, break Alter. This kind of ambush definitely warrents one of those. Hell, I'll be kinda disappointed in Ilya if she doesn't use one. Disappointed but perhaps not surprised, seeing as she didn't use them in HF either when she clearly needed a miracle.
 
Much more pressingly, how the hell did Alter sneak up on Herk like that? Or is that a part of HF I forgot, and Alter can't be detected by the usual Servants/Masters feel other Servants coming?
Saber is pretty much where Caster was in Zero when he and Saber first met, no sneaking involved.

Well, here's an alternative to running, if @Entropy Judge approves: Herk acts as a giant blast shield for Ilya to mitigate damage, Flan breaks Alter's eye, and hopefully Ilya survives by Herk tanking the hit for her.
You're welcome to try. Remember that everyone is still in the car.
 
[X] Leave Ilya and Sella in the car and dogpile Saber together with all your clones.

We're not carrying them faster than an Excaliblast

They might carry them faster than the blast range of breaking Saber.

...Seriously though, this is another perfect time for a command seal, just need to figure out how to best use it. It's Herakles, I would have no problem buying him negating an explosion by swining his axe-sword so hard it counters the explosion, thus protecting Ilya.
 
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