]Votes are ... not locked.
[X] Put Ilya in the armor and get out of here.
- [X] Stay and fight the Shadow while Deis and Ilya escape.
1

[X] Try to hold off the Shadow yourself.
-[X] Focus on fire and magic rather than physical attacks, it doesn't look very substantial.
3

[X] Get Deis to help you while Ilya keeps working.
1

[X] Put Ilya in the armor and get out of here.
3
There is a tie.
 
As far as the Heaven's Feel ending goes, remember that Ilya walked into the cavern wearing the Dress of Heaven - IE, she had some idea of what she was doing before she went in. And also, near as I can tell, she shut down the Grail system ... which Quest!Ilya isn't thinking about yet. She's still looking to see if the Grail can be repaired.

That's true, she did figure it out from afar the first time...

Screw it, don't think we're fixing this NOW. Hopefully Ilya has a good memory and can work on this more later, and then we can give it another try.

Switching back.

[X] Put Ilya in the armor and get out of here.

EDIT: Timing!
 
Votes are locked.
[X] Put Ilya in the armor and get out of here.
- [X] Stay and fight the Shadow while Deis and Ilya escape.
1

[X] Try to hold off the Shadow yourself.
-[X] Focus on fire and magic rather than physical attacks, it doesn't look very substantial.
2

[X] Get Deis to help you while Ilya keeps working.
1

[X] Put Ilya in the armor and get out of here.
4
 
Escape
[X] Put Ilya in the armor and get out of here.


Maybe you could hold it off … but if it's actually after Deis or Ilya, it'll ignore you and go after them as much as it can, and unlike Deis you can't put up any wards. You look at the oncoming shadow-thing, judging its speed. And Deis might be able to help you stall it, but if it has any fancy tricks then fighting in an enclosed area might end poorly, especially since even Deis's wards can't stop it if it really wants to get in, and her best ones took some time to get set up, time that Caster's protections bought her and you don't have here. And she had a body, then. You leap back toward Ershin and Ilya; hopefully it won't suddenly speed up now that you aren't watching it, but even at its current speed you're not sure if Ilya will have enough time. "No, Ilya, we're leaving now. Ershin, open up." The magic circle comes alive.

"Shit." Ershin's helmet pops open and silver lines begin tracing over its body. You pull Ilya off the circle and lift her up. She stares at the ground below her.
"What …? This shouldn't …." You set her inside Ershin and the helmet closes on her.

"Well, what's the plan?" You snort at Deis and pick up Ershin.

"I was planning on running, actually. This isn't a good place to fight and I'm not sure we even have anything that's effective against it." She nods as you glide slowly toward the edge of the cliff, looking for the shadow. Can it fly? Is it going to take the natural way up or will it come straight up the side?

"Not a bad idea; I approve. It'll be a bit difficult for me to protect you, but -" You cut her off with a wave of your free hand.

"Just focus on yourselves. I'll be fine." You prevent any further communication by darting forward, disrupting Deis's speech. You halt, scanning for the shadow, and snarl when you see it - it didn't even try to approach the magic circle! Instead it backed off, closer to the entrance … but then, if the magic circle activated, it's not likely that you want to stay here anyway. Still, the shadow hasn't reached the tunnel yet, and you adjust your grip on Ershin, clutching at a plate with your right hand. Then you hurl yourself forward, holding your friends out to the side so your view of the shadow isn't blocked. As you hurtle across the cavern, swooping low to keep the angle manageable, the area around the shadow seems to dim somewhat, and its tentacles - far too many tentacles - lash up. A trap, showing that whatever this thing is, it's clever … but the tentacle that reaches up in front of Ershin dissolves in a flare of silvery light. Another lies in your path, however, and you plow through that one.

It's torn apart as well, unable to hold you still, but the ragged tatters of the tentacle try to wrap around you, try to constrict your movements, and suddenly Loki flares, drawing more energy from you as the tentacle burns away against your protection. You're through the shadow's trap, however, and you glide through the tunnel before landing and turning to face it. It's wavering, shivering and undulating, moving toward you. It's tentacles wave frantically, but it's just too slow. At least at this distance, anyway, and you have no intention of letting it get into range for a sprint. You readjust your grip on Ershin and fly back through the tunnel. You're forced to slow down, of course - not only to avoid running into anything, but also because of Ershin and Ilya. The faster you go, the more you have to swerve and jerk to keep them from colliding with anything, and you don't want to hurt Ilya. Moving so slowly, you shouldn't have missed Sasaki, but somehow you just don't notice him until he raises his sword. Your first reaction is to greet him, to see if he's alright, but that's obviously not the case. Not with his sallow skin and aggressive posture, that stance …. You frown and set down Ershin. He's actually using a stance, but when he dueled you at the gate he simply stood there. Then again, all he really needs to do is stall you, so maybe it doesn't mean anything …. You shrug and look back. You can't see the shadow, but it must be coming. You roll your eyes at his confident, arrogant smirk and throw yourself at him. You were holding back before, and you didn't have Loki then. Three pointless impacts hammer into you, but your arm is through his chest, and you pull him away, tearing out part of his chest, and slam his head into the tunnel wall with a wet crunch. His face caves in and you tear his head off, tossing it back down the tunnel. Then you grab Ershin again and continue out of the tunnel, only pausing when you rise above the treetops. You look back at the illusionary entrance, but considering how much faster you are than the shadow, it's no surprise that you don't see it.

"Flan, let's pick up Seven." You blink at Ershin, confused by Deis's request. Seven what? "The Church lady's weapon. If we can figure out how it works and get her to cooperate, maybe it'll be useful." That's sensible, and you begin flying toward Caster's old building. Your gaze flicks back to Ershin for a moment.

"Ilya, are you alright?" She doesn't respond, but neither Ershin nor Deis say anything is wrong, so you wait until you land at the edge of the pool where the weapon was buried before frowning worriedly at the armor. "Ilya?" Ershin's helmet pops open once again and you help Ilya climb out.

"Thank you, Ershin," she says. She seems fine, but … distant. You keep an eye out - and on her - as Deis goes to work dredging the coffin. Thank goodness the monks are usually asleep at this time. "… I'm sorry, Flan. I'm just … trying to figure out if there's anything that can be done to fix this. The Greater Grail … there's something wrong with it, and I think you're right that it's older than this War." She hugs herself tightly and you wrap your own arms around her; she left without her coat, so she's probably starting to feel the chilly air already. You glance at Ershin as it lifts the weapon from the coffin and suppress a giggle at the incongruous image - the squat, almost dumpy armor holding the long, bulky firearm it has no hope of using effectively. Maybe Leysritt? If it does have a magical component, and if that doesn't need a magician to operate, it would let her contribute more effectively than just with the halberd.

Now, though … well, Sakura seems to be the source of the shadow, so maybe you should just go kill her? Although you should probably discuss it with Ilya first, since she knows more about this than you. Should you get any of the other Masters involved? Again, this is more Ilya's choice, but it's possible she isn't thinking about that right now ….


What do you do?

[ ] Take Ilya back to her castle.
- [ ] Then go see if there's anything at Tohsaka's mansion; Ilya did say the shadow attacked her, after all ….
- [ ] Then try to track down Tohsaka.
- [ ] Then go see if you can find Arcueid.

[ ] Go see Emiya.

[ ] Try to find Tohsaka.

[ ] Other?
 
Wow, I was not expecting Sasaki Alter to show up. I guess we should have, since we knew the Shadow consumed him before. Still, at least he's dead and I'm pretty sure even the Shadow can't restore a servant after it's right and properly killed, so that's a threat to Non-Flandres well and truly eliminated. I hope. It looks like we also learned that Ershin's anti-curse properties seem to work against the shadow, or maybe that was Ilya or Deis.

We might actually want to find Tohsaka though. She might be dead, but it's possible that Archer covered for her and she's on the run, in which case having her around might actually be worthwhile. Not sure about Shirou- he might be compromised via Sakura. If that's the case, we may soon be dealing with Saber Alter as well.

Might want to find Arcueid, get her to help. If there's anything that can no-sell the Shadow and Dark Sakura, it's Arcueid Brunestud.

Or the fucking Seventh Scripture. Holy crap that thing would do terrible things to anything made from Angra Mainyu.

I was also thinking of maybe getting in contact with Kouma at some point too.
 
Good, sanctity of Ershin's armor is confirmed.

Count me in the "No one expects the Sasaki Inquisition" crowd, and I should have. Still, we got through. The fact that we didn't encounter Archer Alter or Saber Alter implies both of those teams are still alive.

I didn't even consider the possibility of the magic circle being used as a trap. Dunno if something would come of it, but we would not enjoy that circle being activated. Maybe we could have held them off, but it sounds like a noose was being tightened around our necks so, so I'm glad we got when the getting was good. That was a much more straightforwad escape than I expected.

And yes yes yes, Seventh Scripture please. That would be a fantastic weapon to use, if we can make it help. Hell, Ilya even has enough prana to make good use of it, even if her aim sucks.
 
Good, sanctity of Ershin's armor is confirmed.

Count me in the "No one expects the Sasaki Inquisition" crowd, and I should have. Still, we got through. The fact that we didn't encounter Archer Alter or Saber Alter implies both of those teams are still alive.

I didn't even consider the possibility of the magic circle being used as a trap. Dunno if something would come of it, but we would not enjoy that circle being activated. Maybe we could have held them off, but it sounds like a noose was being tightened around our necks so, so I'm glad we got when the getting was good. That was a much more straightforwad escape than I expected.

And yes yes yes, Seventh Scripture please. That would be a fantastic weapon to use, if we can make it help. Hell, Ilya even has enough prana to make good use of it, even if her aim sucks.

I guess it's a good thing we didn't leave Ershin and Ilya alone. Chances are the Shadow could have summoned Sasaki behind us, or would have used him to intercept Ershin, and that would have been baaaad.

Was the magic circle being used as a trap, though? I'm not sure. Maybe it was? Wonder what those lines were on Ershin. Maybe it's because of Ilya?

Not sure Ilya can even pick up the Scripture, though. She's kind of tiny and Nanako is ginormous. Maybe we could have Leysritt or Sella use it, and then set up a mana conduit?
 
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I guess it's a good thing we didn't leave Ershin and Deis alone. Chances are the Shadow could have summoned Sasaki behind us, or would have used him to intercept Ershin, and that would have been baaaad.

....Shit.

Was the magic circle being used as a trap, though? I'm not sure. Maybe it was? Wonder what those lines were on Ershin. Maybe it's because of Ilya?

Flan speculated that being stuck in the magic circle activating would have been bad, and this cavern is pretty much the Shadow's place of power. I'd buy it being potentially a trap. Or one she can set up, like what killed Berserker and Saber.

Maybe Ilya but she mostly uses wishcraft. I think it might be the Purifier armor?

Not sure Ilya can even pick up the Scripture, though. She's kind of tiny and Nanako is ginormous. Maybe we could have Leysritt or Sella use it, and then set up a mana conduit?

Or get Berserker to carry and aim it while Ilya pulls the trigger.

Also that image is incredibly adorable in my head.
 
Seriously though, at this point I'm kind of leaning towards trying to find Tohsaka or Emiya with Deis and Ilya in tow. I'm hesitant to leave Ilya sitting around unless we've got reason to, now that the Shadow is hunting her. Just not sure which one to go find. That said, if the shadow is active, that probably means Sakura isn't Dark yet. She might actually die of strain if we wait for too long. On the other hand, if we can get Shirou and/or Rin to help hold off the Shadow while Ilya dismantles the grail, that'd probably be ideal.

Somehow Leysritt is able to sever Ilya's connection to the grail in Unlimited Codes, but that's questionable canonicity-- though it does have some grounding, since she's supposed to end up turning into the Dress of Heaven anyway.
 
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[X] Try to find Tohsaka.

I think we should try to keep Ilya with us. We know from canon her mansion defenses are useless against the Shadow.
Put the mages heads together to solve the problem while we act as security.
 
[X] Try to find Tohsaka.

I think we should try to keep Ilya with us. We know from canon her mansion defenses are useless against the Shadow.
Put the mages heads together to solve the problem while we act as security.
On one hand, Tohsaka has been repeatedly disrespectful to a suicidal degree and working with her again annoys me.

On the other hand, if everything goes through, maybe Rin can be a body for Deis. She's not an optimal choice, because bad associations with her face, but I don't think Deis wants Sakura's body anymore.

We should ask Deis, but...yeah, wouldn't want to risk it. Rin's got the better affinities for Deis anyway.
 
Mostly the Shadow just charged through whatever anyone was throwing at it, and then burst when it had absorbed enough mana, covering the entire region in mud. This thing is scary, man.
The funny thing is that if you know how it works it's a lot less threatening than it seems.

-The Grail fragments in Sakura gives it superiority over all Servants. It's like fighting a Command Spell.
-Sakura's Imaginary Numbers element gives her advantage on purely spiritual entities(like Servants and Demons) and purely spiritual effects.

So basically no Servants can fight it.
But a mortal mage can, as can material supernatural creatures.
Ehh. Deis did manage to slow it down before and Herk did last a fair bit of time before it took him in canon, but it's been a long time since I've read Heaven's Feel.

@veekie is right in that Ilya did figure out how to preserve Shirou's soul, although honestly I'm not entirely clear on how she pulled that miracle out of her ass.
It's Heaven's Feel. The True Magic. Direct manipulation of the soul.
She pulled Shirou's soul out of his dead body and put it into "another body". Which was mentioned by Rider as "small" when she retrieved it
Bodies present:
-Kotomine - Dead body, heart already melted long ago, then punched to death by Shirou.
-Shirou - Dead body, made of swords.
-Ilya - Live body, in use.
-Zouken - Undead body, made of worms.
-Sakura - Acting Grail. Demonstrably not used.
-Rin - Demonstrably not used.

So she just ripped Shirou's soul out and put it into her own body, which of course kills her.

ALL Ilya needs is to be:
-Alive
-In possession of the Dress of Heaven
-Aware
When the Grail is filled to capacity.
Activating Heaven's Feel will consume Angra Mainyu for power.

Current capacity:
-Gilgamesh - 4 worth
-Cu Chulann - 1 worth
-Angra Mainyu - 1 worth(still anchored)
-Sasaki Kojiro - 1 worth(still anchored)
-Medea - 1 worth

Standing Servants:
-Heracles - >1 worth(?)
-Arthuria - 1 worth
-Medusa - 1 worth
-EMIYA - 1 worth


As far as the Heaven's Feel ending goes, remember that Ilya walked into the cavern wearing the Dress of Heaven - IE, she had some idea of what she was doing before she went in. And also, near as I can tell, she shut down the Grail system ... which Quest!Ilya isn't thinking about yet. She's still looking to see if the Grail can be repaired.

She shut it down after the whole thing, on the basis of uh..."Fuck letting the Magic Association have this". Which to be fair, giving those guys access to the unlimited power, with herself dead, would not be wise.
Still, she just walked right in, presumably because Sakura was busy dueling Rin and Shirou took care of Black Saber/Kotomine, allowing her to study it in peace.

On one hand, Tohsaka has been repeatedly disrespectful to a suicidal degree and working with her again annoys me.

On the other hand, if everything goes through, maybe Rin can be a body for Deis. She's not an optimal choice, because bad associations with her face, but I don't think Deis wants Sakura's body anymore.

We should ask Deis, but...yeah, wouldn't want to risk it. Rin's got the better affinities for Deis anyway.
Rin is basically the last competent mage in the city besides Ilya anyway.
Need to get her in on this.
 
On one hand, Tohsaka has been repeatedly disrespectful to a suicidal degree and working with her again annoys me.

On the other hand, if everything goes through, maybe Rin can be a body for Deis. She's not an optimal choice, because bad associations with her face, but I don't think Deis wants Sakura's body anymore.

We should ask Deis, but...yeah, wouldn't want to risk it. Rin's got the better affinities for Deis anyway.

Wouldn't be the first time she got a goddess shoved into her.

[x] Try to find Tohsaka
 
It's Heaven's Feel. The True Magic. Direct manipulation of the soul.
She pulled Shirou's soul out of his dead body and put it into "another body". Which was mentioned by Rider as "small" when she retrieved it

I know that part. Her actually using the Greater Grail and whatnot to power it, I'm less sure on. Sakura still had the excess of energy even in the ending, it wasn't consumed. And I'm pretty sure she did not consume AM for power, although honestly it's been a long time since I read WOG for that. I remember something like in theory you could get a legit wish out of the Grail, despite AM being there, and Kiritsugu's wish got distorted because it was being granted in the only way her knew how (kill a few to save many).

Rin is basically the last competent mage in the city besides Ilya anyway.

That is....true as far as we know. Zouken's heart worm wasn't killed, as far as I know, so he's still technically alive.
 
[x] Try to find Tohsaka

I'm still really don't like Rin in this quest but the more competent Magus to help us the better and we can use her body for Deis later anyway.
 
That is....true as far as we know. Zouken's heart worm wasn't killed, as far as I know, so he's still technically alive

Didn't we pop his eye?

Edit: Nope, just boiled he and his base alive. So theoretically, he can still put himself back together.

We should deal with that. Give him true and proper death. Big daddy assassin would approve.
 
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I know that part. Her actually using the Greater Grail and whatnot to power it, I'm less sure on. Sakura still had the excess of energy even in the ending, it wasn't consumed. And I'm pretty sure she did not consume AM for power, although honestly it's been a long time since I read WOG for that. I remember something like in theory you could get a legit wish out of the Grail, despite AM being there, and Kiritsugu's wish got distorted because it was being granted in the only way her knew how (kill a few to save many).
Not sure about the whole Sakura situation. She's not a user of Magic, and we know the Greater Grail system was dismantled, but she had the power. Perhaps from being the Lesser Grail.

But defeating Angra Mainyu was very simple if you know how the Grail works:
-The Grail, powered by 6 Servants, grants a wish. Angra Mainyu is a wish, and thus can use 6 other Servants to power the wish.
-The Greater Grail simply consumes 7 Servants, and uses them to punch through to Akasha. It doesn't care whether you're a wish or not, it just lets you draw power from Akasha through that, allowing you to manipulate souls directly.
-Angra Mainyu is ultimately just a Servant.

Therefore Angra Mainyu would corrupt any wish because he's an embodied wish, but the full Greater Grail activation doesn't care because it doesn't make any wish.
That is....true as far as we know. Zouken's heart worm wasn't killed, as far as I know, so he's still technically alive.
I consider him undead anyways...
Theoretically nothing, he's still in Sakura's heart. Literally. With a bunch of other worms I think. And there's no Kotomine to do a surgery anymore.

Zouken's actually in a pretty good position right now.
Well, there's nothing stopping Flan from simply popping his Eye.
Theoretically it shouldn't even hurt Sakura.

But Flan's admittedly not much for finesse and it's going to make a spectacular mess when he explodes inside there.

... Battle Continuation EX?? What, does he not die even if you actually kill him or something?
The Old Man of the Mountain was rumored to be immortal(and led to all the Hassans being thought of as the same person). I figure he's basically a living title?

Since Ex basically isn't a measure of power anymore, but "weird shit beyond the normal rules applying".

Sort of like Rin with the Sword of Zeltretch would be ranked with Mana Ex - She doesn't actually have unlimited power, but her energy instantly refills to max as fast as she can spend it...yet her Mana rating is only exceptional for a HUMAN.
 
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