Fire Emblem: Last of the Manakete

[ChronOblivion]

Artemis starts to open her mouth, only to close it, close her eyes, and take a few deep breaths. "I… apologize, Ryza," she says after a moment. "That makes sense. It's just… it's one thing to know, in my head, that you're a dragon. It's another thing to see you transform and start ripping things apart and breathing lightning right in front of me without a word of warning."

"Manakete."

Artemis huffs. "You are not going to let that distinction go, are you?" she asks.

You frown. "Of course not," you say. "It's important to me. It'd be like if I kept calling you…" you pause, since you realize you don't know enough about humans to come up with a good comparison. "Anyways, just… please try to remember."

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Yeah Artemis, don't be racist.

[X] "Let's just go to Agrithe. We've both had a really bad week, but we can still make it."

The other two are deeply wishful thinking. If the castle isn't truly united as I suspected, the location where is this very loud escape happened might force the issue somewhat, and maaaaybe it's enough that some of our buddies can get out? Not confident in that. At worst, the duchess has succeeded in spinning this to the loyalists and our allies as a kidnapping on our part, giving them a veneer of legitimacy. Only makes it more important that we maintain a much faster speed than we managed previously, because we have way more than some bandits to outrun this time. Relying more of shifting might be a forced move.

 

[Dopplerdee]

[X] "Let's just go to Agrithe. We've both had a really bad week, but we can still make it."
-[X] "We'll come back for them with your fathers help"


We may be able to get them out on our own but even if we can manage it, doing so would leave a lot of dead guards and carnage.

 

[Calico J]

[] "I met Sypha's friends. They seemed nice. If we can find her, then maybe everything can still be patched up."

No, it can't. It really, really can't. The dutchess just betrayed her offered hospitality and tried to send the heir of a trusted ally nation to her capture and/or interrogation and/or death. When the situation was tough, she showed her priorities and character, and neither Artemis nor her nation are going to forget that.

And finding Sypha is only slightly more practical than raiding the castle to retrieve the rest of our party; namely, not at all. Besides, Sypha is evidently some sort of Imperial sympathizer. She may not even want to be rescued. But maybe we'll have a chance at our people some other day.

[X] "Let's just go to Agrithe. We've both had a really bad week, but we can still make it."

 

[x0Nothing0x]

I wonder if our old party will be able to be saved at a later date or if they're the old mentor character(s) that are meant to hold your hand early game while you're still learning how to play only to die heroically (most of the time anyways) to let the rest of the party escape?

 

[Stasis]

[X] "Let's just go to Agrithe. We've both had a really bad week, but we can still make it."

 

[Cute Princess]

[X] "Let's just go to Agrithe. We've both had a really bad week, but we can still make it."

 

[Ando Owen]

[X] "Let's just go to Agrithe. We've both had a really bad week, but we can still make it."

With almost no weapons and probably no supplies, the only thing that looks viable to me is rushing to Agrithe to get help. Everything else will look simpler once we have an army at our beck and call, if Artemis's father didn't suffer the usual Fire Emblem protagonist parents's fate. Hopefully, Artemis won't be backstabbed a third time.

 

[Alcor]

[X] "Let's just go to Agrithe. We've both had a really bad week, but we can still make it."

Basically everything I would have said has already been said - Going back for the party is not really an option anymore. If we were going to try that we really needed to find, and preferably collect, them before we broke Artemis out. They'll be on high alert now. As for Sypha, we have no idea where to even start and Artemis is unarmed now and the only supplies we have are what Ryza has in her bag. The hard truth is that we now have limited rations, we'd need to restock for any prolonged mission which probably means visiting a town and I mean at that point it just makes sense to go to Agrithe.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

[X] "Let's just go to Agrithe. We've both had a really bad week, but we can still make it."

Basically everything I would have said has already been said - Going back for the party is not really an option anymore. If we were going to try that we really needed to find, and preferably collect, them before we broke Artemis out. They'll be on high alert now. As for Sypha, we have no idea where to even start and Artemis is unarmed now and the only supplies we have are what Ryza has in her bag. The hard truth is that we now have limited rations, we'd need to restock for any prolonged mission which probably means visiting a town and I mean at that point it just makes sense to go to Agrithe.

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Food at least probably isn't an issue, Ryza can hunt pretty easily. (Fly, find a critter, lightning bolt it or whatever, carve up with claws, cook over a fire. It's not gourmet but it'll keep them alive. Also, Ryza really needs a knife.) And water sources well away from human settlements should be clean enough to drink, this being before industrialization.

Keeping Artemis warm and dry without proper clothing when they're on the move is probably the bigger challenge. Hopefully it's not too cold. I'd guess Dragon form Ryza is probably pretty warm, at least.

 

[Barondoctor]

[X] "Let's just go to Agrithe. We've both had a really bad week, but we can still make it."

Reverse FE5 where it's the lord and a seemingly random unit who escaped and your other units who were captured instead of your lord and an odd unit being captured.

So we need to get to a safe place.

 

[GreatWyrmGold]

So, thread. I don't think going back for either objective is viable, unfortunately. We don't know where Sypha is to rescue her. We can't trust the Countess to deal with us either; she'd have better odds of getting her daughter back by capturing us and offering us instead, if we revealed ourselves. Even if we did locate Sypha, rescuing her alive would be far from assured.

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I think the Countess is clever enough to realize that imprisoning a magical kid who broke Artemis out of jail is probably not going to work well, especially since we busted up what was presumably one of her best prison cells.

The only apparent witnesses are dead. It seems like we made a fairly clean getaway; the likely conclusion from here is that the 'child mage' is a hell of a lot more dangerous than they thought, and probably some sort of a disguise for a highly skilled mage bodyguard or something. They don't seem to have any mages, so they're likely to be fuzzy on the specifics of what magic can do.

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First off, if you were reading closely, you'll note that that statement was attached to part of the update concerning forensic evidence we left behind. If we don't kill everyone in the castle, there are going to be witnesses to the wild lightning scars left by Ryza's magical attack...and the giant hole in the wall, for that matter.

Given that humans don't appear to know that dragons are natural shapeshifters, Ryza's future cover story might as well be that she's not a dragon, she can just shapeshift into one with magic.

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Which is not something a child mage can do. In fact, unless there are laguz or something in this setting, it's probably not something anyone can do.

My philosophy is that we should evaluate options as though they were proposals for real courses of action, and decide whether they're a good or bad idea on that basis. I don't have blind faith that every option will have a good outcome just because it's a story. I think choices matter, or at least should matter, so we should treat them as though they matter and take them seriously.

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Yes. And I think that actually solving the problem here would be a better outcome than leaving and hoping things work themselves out. Especially if the noble-daughter-kidnapping bandits interested in Artemis have some connection to a certain group of noble-daughter-kidnapping bandits interested in Artemis that we've met before...

Not gonna pretend the plan isn't risky, but I think the risk is worth it.

I don't think this is a good idea logically but it's the answer that I want to give. I might be to focused on the fire emblem games where one or two units could dive into a castle and both rescue there friends and fix things...

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...as opposed to this Quest, where one or two units could dive out of a dragon house to rescue their friends and fix things. And a handful of named characters decided the outcome of a battle between random villagers and seasoned bandits. And having one skilled warrior was enough to rally a bunch of bullied recruits to beat up their better-armed bullies.

So yeah, banking on this Fire Emblem game working on Fire Emblem rules, especially when it comes to how many people it takes to pull off a daring rescue, seems like a safe bet.

quick question, did we give Artemis a fear of flying?

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I would be surprised if she had one before today.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

First off, if you were reading closely, you'll note that that statement was attached to part of the update concerning forensic evidence we left behind. If we don't kill everyone in the castle, there are going to be witnesses to the wild lightning scars left by Ryza's magical attack...and the giant hole in the wall, for that matter.

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Right now there are witnesses to magical nonsense. That's acceptable. If we go back Ryza's probably going to have to reveal her identity, and that's an outcome I would strongly prefer to avoid. Being hunted for her stone or because she's a threat would be a massive pain.

Not gonna pretend the plan isn't risky, but I think the risk is worth it.

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What is your plan?

 

[GreatWyrmGold]

What is your plan?

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Step 0, convince other people that actually dealing with the problem is a good idea.

Step 1, ask Artemis what she knows about the Sypha situation. She presumably knows more than one mumbled sentence about the situation.

If not, step 2 would be to follow up on the previous band of noble-daughter-kidnapping bandits interested in Artemis, because I highly doubt there are two of those wandering around. We don't know exactly where Sir Robert's bosses are, but we know where they were and that's a good direction to start looking.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

Step 0, convince other people that actually dealing with the problem is a good idea.

Step 1, ask Artemis what she knows about the Sypha situation. She presumably knows more than one mumbled sentence about the situation.

If not, step 2 would be to follow up on the previous band of noble-daughter-kidnapping bandits interested in Artemis, because I highly doubt there are two of those wandering around. We don't know exactly where Sir Robert's bosses are, but we know where they were and that's a good direction to start looking.

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Oh yeah, it's obviously the same group. The question is how to find them and then rescue a hostage without risking Ryza's life, blowing the dragon thing wide open, or getting the hostage killed.

I say this gently, but what you have isn't really a plan, it's more of a vague hope.

Sure, I can agree it would be great to rescue the girl and make everything work out like a fairy tale ending. But that's a goal, not a concrete plan of action that can be pursued to a successful conclusion.

I can think of two ways to approach it that might work; try to identify and follow riders to communicate with the bandits and then dragon out, or take the Countess hostage and dictate terms, but both are risky and blow Ryza's secret, which I'm not willing to do right now because it will have terrible consequences.

 

[Barondoctor]

Bringing Artie's dad to bear against the problem (the bandit problem) is the move. I don't see us winning as us and unarmed unarmored artie vs a castle of trained soldiers.

Escape is still the primary objective. We left the "talk it out" objective behind when we broke the castle and left instead of breaking into the Countess' window and negotiating.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

Bringing Artie's dad to bear against the problem (the bandit problem) is the move. I don't see us winning as us and unarmed unarmored artie vs a castle of trained soldiers.

Escape is still the primary objective. We left the "talk it out" objective behind when we broke the castle and left instead of breaking into the Countess' window and negotiating.

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If I *had* to do it, I'd use hit and run tactics. Ryza, particularly in dragon form, is a flying artillery piece. And she can fly above bow range while raining down firepower, which is maybe 300 feet if they've got a really burly human who's spent their whole life training with a really good longbow. Realistically more like 150.

Fly over, demand the castle's surrender, then when they don't you kill people and blow stuff up until you have to leave. Rinse and repeat until the castle surrenders or there's no one and nothing left capable of significant resistance. If they have siege weaponry you take advantage of limited elevation (ballista don't shoot straight up) and turn rate to destroy it first, then proceed with the plan.

The major tactical downside of that plan is killing friends by accident (especially if she has to start destroying buildings) or the defenders killing them/taking them hostage. Also blowing Ryza's secret, and Ryza suffering the horrible psychological impact of having to slaughter a whole bunch of people who can't really do anything to stop her.

Still, something to keep in mind if we ever really need to reduce a castle (historical euphemism) and don't have or don't want to use help.

 

[Alcor]

Step 1, ask Artemis what she knows about the Sypha situation. She presumably knows more than one mumbled sentence about the situation.

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We know a fair deal more than that if we put the pieces together. Some of it is from earlier information that caused some of us to have our "trap" senses go off the moment we arrived, but there's also what we learned while here.

Legerius only recently negotiated its independence from the Empire. The Countess is a good friend of Artemis's father and the two kingdoms have had a good relationship as long as Artemis has been alive. So much so that Artemis had heard talk that her brother and Sypha might be arranged to wed.

If anything is weird about this situation, IMO, it's that we have a number of things that I'm not sure line up well:

1. Artemis is told Sypha is kidnapped, presumably by the Countess. Nothing else really makes sense unless she overheard careless guard/servant chatter.
2. Artemis just now gave a pretty cold evaluation of Sypha saying she'd "rather be Imperial than free."
3. When Artemis mentioned the talk that Apollo and Sypha might be arranged to marry it was like an offhand remark to describe how close the two kingdoms were.

I feel like 2 and 3 don't really mesh well. Artemis has been anti-Imperial as long as we've known her and if she knew Sypha to be pro-Imperial from having dealt with her in her past you'd think we'd have gotten a remark on that when she mentioned it. Or a grimace or some other expression of exasperated disapproval. I mean maybe she just shrugged figuring it was a political arrangement so her personal opinion of Sypha didn't matter.

But if it's that she didn't know that until very recently then this whole thing gets a bit more complicated. Again, Artemis should really only have gotten info on current going-ons in Legerius from the Countess or overhearing her jailers. If Artemis heard both these things from the Countess then it sounds a lot more like Sypha was either a willing participant in this and wasn't really kidnapped, except perhaps in the eyes of the Countess who did not approve of this development, or was otherwise tricked by someone taking advantage of her pro-Imperial leanings.

I'll grant there's almost definitely something more to the Sypha situation than first meets the eye, but I also think our current circumstances dictate that it's best we go to Agrithe first to regroup. I'm not at all opposed to try to go back for Sypha at that point, it's just that there's far too much unknown about the situation for me to think trying now is a good idea. Maybe if we asked Sypha's friends about her we may have learned something we could act on, but...

 

[TaliesinSkye]

We know a fair deal more than that if we put the pieces together. Some of it is from earlier information that caused some of us to have our "trap" senses go off the moment we arrived, but there's also what we learned while here.

Legerius only recently negotiated its independence from the Empire. The Countess is a good friend of Artemis's father and the two kingdoms have had a good relationship as long as Artemis has been alive. So much so that Artemis had heard talk that her brother and Sypha might be arranged to wed.

If anything is weird about this situation, IMO, it's that we have a number of things that I'm not sure line up well:

1. Artemis is told Sypha is kidnapped, presumably by the Countess. Nothing else really makes sense unless she overheard careless guard/servant chatter.
2. Artemis just now gave a pretty cold evaluation of Sypha saying she'd "rather be Imperial than free."
3. When Artemis mentioned the talk that Apollo and Sypha might be arranged to marry it was like an offhand remark to describe how close the two kingdoms were.

I feel like 2 and 3 don't really jive well. Artemis has been anti-Imperial as long as we've known her and if she knew Sypha to be pro-Imperial from having dealt with her in her past you'd think we'd have gotten a remark on that when she mentioned it. Or a grimace or some other expression of exasperated disapproval. I mean maybe she just shrugged figuring it was a political arrangement so her personal opinion of Sypha didn't matter.

But if it's that she didn't know that until very recently then this whole thing gets a bit more complicated. Again, Artemis should really only have gotten info on current going-ons in Legerius from the Countess or overhearing her jailers. If Artemis heard both these things from the Countess then it sounds a lot more like Sypha was either a willing participant in this and wasn't really kidnapped, except perhaps in the eyes of the Countess who did not approve of this development, or was otherwise tricked by someone taking advantage of her pro-Imperial leanings.

I'll grant there's almost definitely something more to the Sypha situation than first meets the eye, but I also think our current circumstances dictate that it's best we go to Agrithe first to regroup. I'm not at all opposed to try to go back for Sypha at that point, it's just that there's far too much unknown about the situation for me to think trying now is a good idea. Maybe if we asked Sypha's friends about her we may have learned something we could act on, but...

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Something else that bothers me is the sheer convenience of Sypha being kidnapped before Artemis even shows up asking for help. The 'bandits' were behind them, and didn't know they'd make for that direction, and even if they got ahead, kidnapping an heir isn't an easy thing to be done quickly. It'd have to be that Sypha was kidnapped already and the Countess was being blackmailed for something else, and then the demands changed, but it all seems weird.

 

[Barondoctor]

Something else that bothers me is the sheer convenience of Sypha being kidnapped before Artemis even shows up asking for help. The 'bandits' were behind them, and didn't know they'd make for that direction, and even if they got ahead, kidnapping an heir isn't an easy thing to be done quickly. It'd have to be that Sypha was kidnapped already and the Countess was being blackmailed for something else, and then the demands changed, but it all seems weird.

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This all adds up to going to Artie's dad and getting a more complete picture.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

This all adds up to going to Artie's dad and getting a more complete picture.

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Agreed.

I strongly suspect there is a greater plot going on here, something organized by an entity that has an interest in subverting the independent petty kingdoms and/or pitting them against one another. The Empire is an obvious candidate. In any event, some state actor could have used agents and a pile of gold to procure a traitor and hired bandit backup. (They can't send their own troops at risk of the gig being up and uniting the independents against them.)

Running multiple operations to kidnap everyone's heirs at once would explain why Sypha was already kidnapped.

Alternatively, if Sypha supports the Empire maybe she was convinced to allow herself to be 'kidnapped' to force her mother's hand.

The whole thing just stinks of an intelligence operation, but I have limited political context to extrapolate from.

 

[Herofox]

Damn, we really are getting caught in a global secret conspiracy situation right now.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

Damn, we really are getting caught in a global secret conspiracy situation right now.

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Some sort of conspiracy, anyway. One traitor and some bandits was one thing, but another missing heir evidently grabbed by the same group? Once is coincidence, twice is an organized plot.

 

[GreatWyrmGold]

Oh yeah, it's obviously the same group. The question is how to find them and then rescue a hostage without risking Ryza's life, blowing the dragon thing wide open, or getting the hostage killed.

I say this gently, but what you have isn't really a plan, it's more of a vague hope.

Sure, I can agree it would be great to rescue the girl and make everything work out like a fairy tale ending. But that's a goal, not a concrete plan of action that can be pursued to a successful conclusion.

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I am aware. However, I'd like to point out something you seem to be ignoring: The odds of our QM forcing us to engage if we discover new information that makes victory impossible are basically nil. The next update is not going to cover tracking down the bandits, scouting them out, and starting battle with them. That isn't a question of tropes, it's a question of Quest structure.

Rescuing Sypha is a course of action I'm willing to abandon if we find out it's not gonna work out. But I don't want to abandon it without trying.

I'll grant there's almost definitely something more to the Sypha situation than first meets the eye, but I also think our current circumstances dictate that it's best we go to Agrithe first to regroup.

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This all adds up to going to Artie's dad and getting a more complete picture.

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I feel like I'm missing a link in your logic. Why the frig would Artemis's dad know more about the situation here than Artemis, who is involved in part of it and not an unclear but significant distance away? How the heck would Duke Zeus* know anything about the bandits he didn't know were going to kidnap his daughter without sending a bunch of people back here to scout?
Is there a reason you expect that "Yo, Dad, someone kidnapped the countess's daughter (probably the guys that tried to kidnap me)" would yield intelligence more relevant than "That sucks, someone should do something about that"?

*Or whatever his name is—I don't remember it being mentioned, so I'll go with "Duke Zeus". (Also, "Duke Zeus" amuses me.)

 

[SoaringHawk218]

Duke Zeus*

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His name is Archduke Letoro, but Duke Zeus is now his official nickname because it amuses me *too.

 

[GreatWyrmGold]

His name is Archduke Letoro, but Duke Zeus is now his official nickname because it amuses me *to.

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Ah, like Leto, that makes sense. (And is also easier to take seriously than Duke Zeus, which seems like a plus for the official name.)