[numberman@cauldron ~]$ cat /dev/taylor >/dev/simurghDraculthemad said:
error: mind is full of fuck: /dev/simurgh
Fiend: Thread Three, Thread Harder. [Exalted/Worm]
- Thread starter logiccosmic
- Start date
error: mind is full of fuck: /dev/simurgh
Precogs use cause and effects to predict what is going to happen, tuning into the causality engine that are the rules of physics of the universe, Taylor's anti-precog power is that she runs on her own causality engine. So whatever the precogs see is the future as if Taylor did not exist, any difference are due to the effect of her action being beyond what the precog had calculated.kenigsberg said:
So her anti-precog lingers as long as the consequences of her actions do, and the more her actions have consequences the more off predictions are.
Jiopaba
Eat Lightning; Crap Success.
Actually, I think it'll clear up relatively quickly if she's away, but so long as she stays there it'll just get worse. The bigger issue is that precogs probably only noticed a steadily increasing blindspot which hit 'worrisome' when they failed to predict the huge group capture of the gangs.Happerry said:
And then suddenly everything they knew about the future disappeared when Taylor made the decision that led to Noelle's release, and they'd have to start recalculating based on what Noelle was up to as soon as Taylor was out of the way, if they could even see into that fight at all. No possible future that could have been predicted by a precog before Taylor's arrival could account for the release of Noelle in New York City unless she could have reasonably escaped by some other method.
I imagine that someone trying to see Noelle's future continuously would see her sitting bored in her room at first. Then suddenly a blank spot, no signal. Then suddenly she's ripping up New York City and is on track to continue this without problems for a few moments until Taylor resolves to get back into the fight, and then nothing. Then they see Noelle disintegrating into a cloud of exploding vapor once Taylor is blown away and has no intentions of going back for her.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
She can see all the world, IIRC.Zefferen said:
So all of a sudden having random chunks of the US going dark to her power might mean she now is a LOT more interested in what's causing that then the gnats snapping at her.
Also, mind if I ask where's the fanart for this?
logiccosmic
the Prince of Word Crimes
- Location
- the Hague, formerly
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Just out of rough draft- It'll be posted when its ready~.Night_stalker said:
FixingSojiko said:
Heh, half the time, you guys come so close to saying what I'm about to do, and I'm crossing my fingers that no one will post it before I do.Sojiko said:
And then sometimes y'all think she is going to be fighting Lung, and I cackle in my evil lair. (Bedroom)
Now what could have possibly happened between now and an hour ago that would make Simurgh decide to break the Endbringer pattern and teleport to Montreal.logiccosmic said:
Could it have something to do with a certain Fiend getting up to no good here in New York? Question is; was it Noelle getting killed or Taylor disrupting her precog that did it.
I bet what Number Man really wants to know is if Taylor teleporting all over the place, while presumably stopping to do something like Anima Banner flaring, will get Simurgh teleporting all over the place.logiccosmic said:
I can't help but picture the Simurgh chasing Defiler and Sundancer across the world with the Yakety Sax playing in the background.
And then Simurgh pays a new visit to Cauldron's main base. Because yeah, she can't track that damn thing teleporting all over the world. But the portals? Oh, those she knows where they come from.UberJJK said:
Revlid
blob of bugs
- Location
- England
Simurgh: "Bwahahaa! Now I will corrupt Edgar Machelstein, a budding young tinker with the capacity for awesome power and great eviiil, whose inventions, twisted by own design, will cause chaos throughout the world. He's... he will... He's not here. Why is he not here?!"
Meanwhile, Edgar Machelstein is in New York, cursing the flight delays caused by this massive cape battle and that jackass Defiler. Do these people have no appreciation for the common man? He has a job interview to get to in Montreal this morning, he's going to miss it.
Meanwhile, Edgar Machelstein is in New York, cursing the flight delays caused by this massive cape battle and that jackass Defiler. Do these people have no appreciation for the common man? He has a job interview to get to in Montreal this morning, he's going to miss it.
Something I realized: This is going to mess up Defiler's rep even more. In order for things to work properly, people have to react normally to her popping up in their city - it's going to look like she's taking advantage of the Endbringer attack for her own goals. And while the people at the top may get the word that something different is going on, they likely can't/won't tell anyone about it either. Fuck. Cauldron wins coming and going - Hopefully Simurgh is distracted, her precog-bombs may not go off as planned, and Taylor is driven further into villain-dom. And Cauldron gets data on how Taylor's precog-screw effect works.
I'm with Hitchhiker on this one, the greatest effect would be for Taylor to go the quarentine zones and start fucking up Simurghs long standing plans. It would also be a huge distraction to the Simurgh as it seems that someone is going to all her old stomping grounds and healing the gaping wounds she left in the world.
So, I was reading the posts reacting to Taylor noticing Stunts in the story and sying that shouldn't happen. About how they are only an abstraction, that they don't really happen, and that energy isn't spontaneously created.
I had a rant ready, but the thread had already moved on by the time I got to it. Except today I came across that quote by one of the (best) authors of Exalted.
So, yeah. I'm not going to go into the whole rant, but a few details stick out. Characters can go from a completely empty mote pool to a full one (except for the committed ones) during a fight. You can easily get back in 10 seconds the equivalent of a full hour of rest. In some battles when you tally up all the motes spent, stunts account for the large majority of them. It's hard to justify that as "some heroic determination lets you push yourself a bit further".
Maybe more tellingly, Enlightening your essence lets you stunt better, which is an interesting and very direct mechanical effect of stunts.
And more difficult to wave away, there are Charms, which are discreet magical effects usually developped or learned deliberately and that can be analysed, whose effect is to modify how stunts work. The most obvious ones (but not the only examples) are the Mythos Exultants, which have absolutely no effect beyond modifying stunts rewards. And when someone with Sorcerer's Sight is looking at an Infernal getting increased rewards it becomes Obvious and he can tell that it's what is happening. So characters can observe the effects of stunts directly in the right circumstances.
Conclusion : stunts do happen.
I had a rant ready, but the thread had already moved on by the time I got to it. Except today I came across that quote by one of the (best) authors of Exalted.
(it's signed Rebecca because that used tobe her name when she wrote that)Jenna Moran said:
So, yeah. I'm not going to go into the whole rant, but a few details stick out. Characters can go from a completely empty mote pool to a full one (except for the committed ones) during a fight. You can easily get back in 10 seconds the equivalent of a full hour of rest. In some battles when you tally up all the motes spent, stunts account for the large majority of them. It's hard to justify that as "some heroic determination lets you push yourself a bit further".
Maybe more tellingly, Enlightening your essence lets you stunt better, which is an interesting and very direct mechanical effect of stunts.
And more difficult to wave away, there are Charms, which are discreet magical effects usually developped or learned deliberately and that can be analysed, whose effect is to modify how stunts work. The most obvious ones (but not the only examples) are the Mythos Exultants, which have absolutely no effect beyond modifying stunts rewards. And when someone with Sorcerer's Sight is looking at an Infernal getting increased rewards it becomes Obvious and he can tell that it's what is happening. So characters can observe the effects of stunts directly in the right circumstances.
Conclusion : stunts do happen.
People keep speaking about her anima banner as if it was a huge Fate-derailing phenomenon. There is no reason it should be.42hitchhiker said:
Once again Taylor screws with precognition by bot being part of the system doing the prevision. The only effect the anima banner would have on that (unless it is modified by the author to receive additional powers in this story) would be that the consequence of being under a green light for a short while would not be taken into account.
If her anima banner doesn't change events naturally (by being a beacon of green light), there is nothing to cause a butterfly effect.
Note that the anima banner is more than a simple light show. Here is the description:
If its light is often described as "baleful" that's not without reason, there is something fundamentally wrong with the anima of Green Sun Princes, and people can feel that. Thankfully for Taylor there are those who do not let prejudice cloud their judgment.Manual of Exalted powers: Infernals ; p.87 said:
hmm for denying precog nothing quite beats the infernal monster style form, all divinations within a mile just return "The monster is here." great for blinding precogs.
Revlid
blob of bugs
- Location
- England
Jenna Moran also compared 300 Essence 5 Solars fighting Chejop Kejak to a 300 cats fighting a grown man. I adore her work, but she's not always right, and her musings aren't the be-all-and-end-all of Exalted.Sojiko said:
Stunts make about as much sense as an actual in-universe phenomenon as scene-long Charms or cosmetic helmets. They're a narrative convention. They don't "really" exist.
(and thus far, Taylor hasn't reacted to Stunts in this story, to my knowledge)
Besides which, the premise of the quote is flawed, since Stunts don't actually correlate to how cool what you're doing is. You get a one-dot Stunt for describing what you're doing. You get a two-dot Stunt for incorporating the context of the scene into that description. You get a three-dot Stunt when the Storyteller says so. "I attack the guard" and "I quickly slash at the guard" and "I quickly slash at the guard, exploiting the design of his armour to target his unprotected throat*" are zero-dot, one-dot and two-dot Stunts, respectively. The same thing happened either way, but depending on the specifics of how you the player entertained the rest of the group, your character gets rewards that are, in-universe, folded into their heroic reserves and second-winds of stamina and resolve.
*or "darting around his comrades to get a clear strike" or "driving him back into the wall" or "trapping him between the gate and my blade" or "forcing him onto the slippery paving stones" or "ducking just before I make my blow so that the sun gets in his eyes" or "hoping to distract him long enough for my friends to sneak past" or "ignoring the shocked cries from the crowd" or "my cloak fluttering in the stiff breeze" or "the fading sunlight gleaming off my sword's edge", etc etc - two-dot Stunts are really easy, by design.
Hell, 3E's going for a flat mote-regen, at least partly for this very reason.
If nothing else, though, going totemic in Las Vegas means a lot of people in Las Vegas going "what the fuck, why is there a giant burning spider that can be seen for miles around" thus disrupting their planned routines and reactions, throwing off the Simurgh's understanding of what's going on ever so slightly (or more, for those likely to become directly involved, such as, well, capes) for a period that should be long enough to encompass her attack.Sojiko said:
No, the Anima doesn't stay flared up for anywhere near that long. You might be thinking of Abyssal Taylor.E.I.G. said:
I love that Charm. This is so awesome.Catty Nebulart said:
I was imagining the face of the Weather precog looking at her results: sunny, sunny, cloudy, the Monster is Here.
Not really. Children often have nightmare after exposition, but they are not mind rending horror, in fact they are not even sufficient to hamper Willpower recovery as far as we know, so that's fairly mild. Adults feel uncomfortable or sometime even nauseous, but that's only during the exposition, no lasting effects are noted. Apart for the occasionally ruined shirt.E.I.G. said:
And note that this won't affect all of New York, only those directly under the light of her anima, and those who did are probably going to be more concerned about Noelle. So the child that do have nightmare because of her would probably have had nightmares even without that effect.
That's a very good point. She's a little low on essence to go iconic easily, though. It's a good thing that personal motes can be used to cause your anima to flare up, just like peripheral ones.Revlid said:
Essence use doesn't inherently interfere with precognition, the Loom is simply incapable of properly incorporating the effects of Essence use in its simulations of the future, so it interferes with precognition based on that, and that alone.Ixenathier said:
Other forms of precognition, whether based on samsara or a solar using transhuman skill at to observe the current state of the world and deduce what will happen next based on the clues it gives, are unaffected by Essence use.
The fact that Defiler's running on a different set of physical laws to the rest of the world is likely to be what's messing the Simurgh up, whether or not she uses Essenc, as she's wandering around being a giant butterfly effect.
Note that an elder solar using the right charms has no problem with using their precognitive charms to predict the actions of an Infernal, so that simply means that the Simurgh's less good at it than them - but an elder solar probably understands the nature of Primordial Mythoses a lot better as well, so can take account of them in their predictions.
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, the only thing I can imagine you're talking about here is that retarded... I think it's an Investigation Charm? Which supposedly gives you a week's warning of anyone attacking your loved ones.Alratan said:
That's one of the many, many cases of bullshit broken elder Charms, and should not be taken seriously by anyone with the faintest understanding of mechanics, which apparently whoever wrote it lacks. Let alone used in an argument.
Note that essence messes up Fate because actions it enhances succeed where they were supposed to fail. Except that when Taylor enhances her actions with essence, that doesn't happen since the actions were not supposed to happen in the first place.
Not that I am certain that she cannot possibly affect precog further with essence expenditures, but her being Outside Fate reduces its effect tremendously. And note that the quantities that are necessary for significant snags to happen are rather large, way past what would cause anima flare. Given she's rather low, I really don't see that part of the equation playing any role here.
Not that I am certain that she cannot possibly affect precog further with essence expenditures, but her being Outside Fate reduces its effect tremendously. And note that the quantities that are necessary for significant snags to happen are rather large, way past what would cause anima flare. Given she's rather low, I really don't see that part of the equation playing any role here.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
At the same time, Exalted Fate tends to be fairly simple cause-and-effect. Problems start when people die when they should have lived, or trees fall down when they were supposed to be there. Outside Fate is a problem because they're not accounted for, so anything they do is considered to be new data entering the system that needs to be compensated for.
Meanwhile, the Simurgh's bombs are more "Move a feather three inches, a skyscraper explodes five years later". The level of micromanagement she puts into setting up her bombs means that it would take a relatively minor push from an unaccounted for factor to collapse the whole house of cards. She can model every person, alive or dead to enough detail to set this up. But she can't model someone who's not inside the system.
Meanwhile, the Simurgh's bombs are more "Move a feather three inches, a skyscraper explodes five years later". The level of micromanagement she puts into setting up her bombs means that it would take a relatively minor push from an unaccounted for factor to collapse the whole house of cards. She can model every person, alive or dead to enough detail to set this up. But she can't model someone who's not inside the system.
Precongition immunity is not unprecedented in the Worm-verse, I think. Competing precognitives also interfere with each other, IIRC. This means she must already have some means to get past this and keep things on track, which suggests some degree of active management to nudge events back on the rails every time someone outisde her model throws off a butterfly.Alectai said: