[Exalted, ?] Most High
- Thread starter Rihaku
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- exalted (white wolf)
[X] Sorcerer of the Adamant Circle
My main reasons are that it prevents the Wracking, and that it helps increase the chance of successful reincarnation. Both of those sound interesting to me. I want to see how it is that Sidereals are affected, such that the Wracking doesn't occur. What does Odyssial do, or butterfly, that changes this?
Taking Chejop or Anys Syn (or her pre-incarnation?) as an understudy or something?
My main reasons are that it prevents the Wracking, and that it helps increase the chance of successful reincarnation. Both of those sound interesting to me. I want to see how it is that Sidereals are affected, such that the Wracking doesn't occur. What does Odyssial do, or butterfly, that changes this?
Taking Chejop or Anys Syn (or her pre-incarnation?) as an understudy or something?
dragon
Ancalagon the Black
- Location
- The Skies of Arda
How does reincarnating perfectly affect stats?
Would ulyssian start out at a high essence level with odyssials skills on exalting? Start at normal base but get a discount on raising stats back to their previous level?
No effect but getting memories?
Would ulyssian start out at a high essence level with odyssials skills on exalting? Start at normal base but get a discount on raising stats back to their previous level?
No effect but getting memories?
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[x] Subduer of the Wyld
- Location
- N36°3.38472, W112°8.1894
[X] Subduer of the Wyld
Preventing the Wracking aside (and that will require an additional vote where we have to select it, over other things we may prefer), Sorcerer is more about the personal accumulation of power - something that our past choices for Odyssial haven't entirely been. He's a general over a gladiator, and subduer is more in line with what, imo, he would have done - helped those who lived within his territories out to the best of his (absolutely ridiculous) ability. Leave Creation a better place than he found it. He doesn't know / we don't know what future choices will have to be made to change things. In the now, I think he would have gone with subduer over sorcery, so that'll be how my vote goes.
Also I'm not convinced stopping creation from being hurt is in it's or our own best interest. Preventing the Wracking empowers the Sidereals, primarily made up of the Bronze Faction, whose entire Immaculate Philosophy is "don't be excellent, it attracts anathema," and attempts to keep Creation at the status quo. That attitude alone, let alone the additional power they'd wield as a result of a more stable world, makes it difficult for anything to gain traction. Meanwhile subduer puts the pieces on the board for Uly to pick right up where Ody left off, resources and people are there to allow everyone to rise above their current circumstances - the core of Exalted.
Preventing the Wracking aside (and that will require an additional vote where we have to select it, over other things we may prefer), Sorcerer is more about the personal accumulation of power - something that our past choices for Odyssial haven't entirely been. He's a general over a gladiator, and subduer is more in line with what, imo, he would have done - helped those who lived within his territories out to the best of his (absolutely ridiculous) ability. Leave Creation a better place than he found it. He doesn't know / we don't know what future choices will have to be made to change things. In the now, I think he would have gone with subduer over sorcery, so that'll be how my vote goes.
Also I'm not convinced stopping creation from being hurt is in it's or our own best interest. Preventing the Wracking empowers the Sidereals, primarily made up of the Bronze Faction, whose entire Immaculate Philosophy is "don't be excellent, it attracts anathema," and attempts to keep Creation at the status quo. That attitude alone, let alone the additional power they'd wield as a result of a more stable world, makes it difficult for anything to gain traction. Meanwhile subduer puts the pieces on the board for Uly to pick right up where Ody left off, resources and people are there to allow everyone to rise above their current circumstances - the core of Exalted.
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That's the option that makes our Sword N/A. We're probably going to choose it.
They haven't entirely been leadership either. This means no more leadership votes, it's not entirely in line with what we've voted for in the past.
Spreading Sorcery to improve the quality of life within his territories (in line with Nio's dreams) while also greatly improving his and his wife's personal puissance isn't in line with Ody's personality? I think vastly increasing the prevalence of sorcery is probably quite decent for mortal rights and mortal survivability. It is mentioned that even a Terrestrial Circle Sorcerer can change the course of villages histories, ensuring crop growth and healing the sick; we could vastly increase the prevalence of mortal sorcerers.
Your vote is to improve people's lives by lessening the destruction of the Balorian crusade.
[X] Sorcerer of the Adamant Circle
Preventing the Wracking offsets one of the greateat threats to Creation. We can reinforce the borders all we like, but with the Solars gone, the Lunars broken and the Dragonblooded infighting, how long will the defenses last, with none to preserve them and many who wish to claim them.
Preventing the Wracking offsets one of the greateat threats to Creation. We can reinforce the borders all we like, but with the Solars gone, the Lunars broken and the Dragonblooded infighting, how long will the defenses last, with none to preserve them and many who wish to claim them.
[X] Sorcerer of the Adamant Circle
What Greatness would Lea be at?
Quantumboost
Now with 50% more dots in Dimensional Science
- Location
- Ensemble Space
Hm, missed the bulk of this one.
Ah well.
[X] Sorcerer of the Adamant Circle
Siddies everywhere. All the plans.
~nwo~
(For the record, I would've gone with:
[] Sorcerer of the Adamant Circle
[] Apex Flight
[] The Blade of the Battle-Maiden
[] Petals of the Rose
Because the changes to the Second Age with maybe having an Elder Solar on board with the Usurpation or whatever Sidplans? MY CURIOSITY BURNS.)
Ah well.
[X] Sorcerer of the Adamant Circle
Siddies everywhere. All the plans.
~nwo~
(For the record, I would've gone with:
[] Sorcerer of the Adamant Circle
[] Apex Flight
[] The Blade of the Battle-Maiden
[] Petals of the Rose
Because the changes to the Second Age with maybe having an Elder Solar on board with the Usurpation or whatever Sidplans? MY CURIOSITY BURNS.)
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meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
[X] Sorcerer of the Adamant Circle
While the Triple Crown of Terror sounds awesome, Third Circle Sorcery for Odyssial has benefits that I just can't ignore.
First the, preventing the Wracking if we take that choice in the next turn: While bad for us in some ways if the Bronze faction remains in power, I think that this has a great chance of further strengthening the Gold faction. Preventing Elder Sids from being killed/crippled in a single strike is something that should cause at least some of them to rethink their position on Solars.
Second, Sorcerous workings that survive to Uly's era? And some of them might be sentient and remember Ody? Thats a plot hook if I ever saw a one. I would predict that if we play our cards right, we might manage to stumble upon an another useful and interesting ally. And lots of shiny loot.
Third, Celestial Circle Sorcery in the Hands of an Elder Lunar who will quite likely be our ally? Very, very useful.
Really, now that we have gone with the choices that have more emphasis on our allies, we might as well take the option that makes those choices even more potent.
While the Triple Crown of Terror sounds awesome, Third Circle Sorcery for Odyssial has benefits that I just can't ignore.
First the, preventing the Wracking if we take that choice in the next turn: While bad for us in some ways if the Bronze faction remains in power, I think that this has a great chance of further strengthening the Gold faction. Preventing Elder Sids from being killed/crippled in a single strike is something that should cause at least some of them to rethink their position on Solars.
Second, Sorcerous workings that survive to Uly's era? And some of them might be sentient and remember Ody? Thats a plot hook if I ever saw a one. I would predict that if we play our cards right, we might manage to stumble upon an another useful and interesting ally. And lots of shiny loot.
Third, Celestial Circle Sorcery in the Hands of an Elder Lunar who will quite likely be our ally? Very, very useful.
Really, now that we have gone with the choices that have more emphasis on our allies, we might as well take the option that makes those choices even more potent.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
The Wracking is largely only a benefit to Ulyssian, as there Are no surviving Elder Sidereals who are Gold Faction.
Period. Not a single one--all the ones who cared enough to call bullshit on the vote were assassinated more-or-less the instant they started going to warn someone. The Wracking (Whatever it was and for whatever reason it existed), largely only hit the elder Sidereals.
In other words, there won't be a Gold Faction until the Solars return. Even if the one who survives makes it to the Second Age (And this is not guaranteed, he has a 50% chance of surviving that long, which is not great odds). The only ones who actually survive the purge are the ones who fell in line with the rest of the Usurpation.
Plus, again, this commits another action next turn, and we're already critically high on Heartlessness. I'd rather avoid hitting 10 if at all reasonably practical. Subduer of the Wyld gives us a large number of Dragon Blooded who are loyal to us, and expands Creation's borders vastly, potentially blunting the Balorian Crusade and giving much more defensive depth to Creation's defenses. It's much more reliable than empowering our future Enemies on the off chance that maybe an ally will survive long enough to be relevant to Ulyssian.
And things are going to be hard Enough without having fully capable Sidereal Elders in place with full access to their resources. Anys Syn, apparently fighting with one arm behind her back and crippled to an inch of her life by the Wracking was still a solid fight for Ulyssian in a full out combat spec and all of his glory, and definitely the most challenging fight of that entire story. If we had trouble against ten percent of her potential, 100% would Slaughter any manifestation of Ulyssian that is realistically plausible. Even if we get the N/A Sword, it takes Time to master an Artifact Weapon of that calibre, and we wouldn't get the exact same power set that Odyssial would have gotten out of it, because Evocations are unique to a given weapon/wielder combination, not just the weapon itself.
Period. Not a single one--all the ones who cared enough to call bullshit on the vote were assassinated more-or-less the instant they started going to warn someone. The Wracking (Whatever it was and for whatever reason it existed), largely only hit the elder Sidereals.
In other words, there won't be a Gold Faction until the Solars return. Even if the one who survives makes it to the Second Age (And this is not guaranteed, he has a 50% chance of surviving that long, which is not great odds). The only ones who actually survive the purge are the ones who fell in line with the rest of the Usurpation.
Plus, again, this commits another action next turn, and we're already critically high on Heartlessness. I'd rather avoid hitting 10 if at all reasonably practical. Subduer of the Wyld gives us a large number of Dragon Blooded who are loyal to us, and expands Creation's borders vastly, potentially blunting the Balorian Crusade and giving much more defensive depth to Creation's defenses. It's much more reliable than empowering our future Enemies on the off chance that maybe an ally will survive long enough to be relevant to Ulyssian.
And things are going to be hard Enough without having fully capable Sidereal Elders in place with full access to their resources. Anys Syn, apparently fighting with one arm behind her back and crippled to an inch of her life by the Wracking was still a solid fight for Ulyssian in a full out combat spec and all of his glory, and definitely the most challenging fight of that entire story. If we had trouble against ten percent of her potential, 100% would Slaughter any manifestation of Ulyssian that is realistically plausible. Even if we get the N/A Sword, it takes Time to master an Artifact Weapon of that calibre, and we wouldn't get the exact same power set that Odyssial would have gotten out of it, because Evocations are unique to a given weapon/wielder combination, not just the weapon itself.
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Two things:
1. I understand that you are addressing those choosing to prevent the Wracking, but I'll say that though I do like the idea of full-power Sidereals I'm voting because I like Sorcery. If there are better options than getting our N/A sword next epoch I'll choose them without qualm.
2. I'd say having Odyssial reincarnate (however that works) is probably a bigger advantage to Ulyssian than every other option in every epoch combined, and also better for Creation.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
The fuck are you talking about?
*Reduces the negative consequences of Heartlessness overall, as Odyssial both learns supreme self-discipline and becomes too powerful for consequences to stick.
That does not say "All the bad goes away", that says "You functionally operate slightly lower then your numbers suggest because you have enough discipline and self-awareness to critique your own actions, and enough genius to recognize when a soft touch is the most effective approach, rather then always being Maximum Tyrant."
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While he's guilty of being wrong, I think your "slightly" is a bit of a biased word choice, too. And @Usernames Alectai's one of the more hardcore anti-Heartlessness advocates, so I don't think you're likely to convince him on this.
Leaning towards Sorcery, but that Dragonblooded sidekick sure sounds hilarious.
Still, letting the Wracking happen may weaken the Siddies but it also means both they and everyone else gets a lot more desperate, which not only makes fucked up shit like Anys Syn's plan more likely but also means Uly has to spend more time running around and putting out fires when he could otherwise focus on self-optimization and getting Sorcery doesn't actually preclude letting it happen.
Is there any chance that the Dragon-Blooded coterie has remnants in the Age of Sorrows?
Hilarious similarities to Resolute Flame and his sister aside, that seems a lot less tempting if it doesn't actually ripple towards Uly's own adventurers, whereas stopping the Wracking, leaving sentient creations that have a complicated rleationship with Ody around everywhere and enhancing miscellaneous efforts sounds like it'd certainly come up in Uly's own life.
Personally, I'm kind of a sucker for past lives more directly impacting reincarnations, which is why I rather like the thought of Ody succeeding and all those other ripple effects Sorcery would cause, whereas I just don't think the Fae alone remembering us is enough to make me choose Subduer because they seem a bit more peripheral than the other stuff.
Still, letting the Wracking happen may weaken the Siddies but it also means both they and everyone else gets a lot more desperate, which not only makes fucked up shit like Anys Syn's plan more likely but also means Uly has to spend more time running around and putting out fires when he could otherwise focus on self-optimization and getting Sorcery doesn't actually preclude letting it happen.
Is there any chance that the Dragon-Blooded coterie has remnants in the Age of Sorrows?
Hilarious similarities to Resolute Flame and his sister aside, that seems a lot less tempting if it doesn't actually ripple towards Uly's own adventurers, whereas stopping the Wracking, leaving sentient creations that have a complicated rleationship with Ody around everywhere and enhancing miscellaneous efforts sounds like it'd certainly come up in Uly's own life.
Personally, I'm kind of a sucker for past lives more directly impacting reincarnations, which is why I rather like the thought of Ody succeeding and all those other ripple effects Sorcery would cause, whereas I just don't think the Fae alone remembering us is enough to make me choose Subduer because they seem a bit more peripheral than the other stuff.
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Arghhh both options are so tempting.
That being said Sorcery does seem to grant the better synergy and I really want that perfect reincarnation trick. As tempting as sending Fae fleeing at the sight of Odyssial is I expect they'd probably do that anyway considering we're looking at a getting a greatness 10 Odyssial.
[X] Sorcerer of the Adamant Circle
That being said Sorcery does seem to grant the better synergy and I really want that perfect reincarnation trick. As tempting as sending Fae fleeing at the sight of Odyssial is I expect they'd probably do that anyway considering we're looking at a getting a greatness 10 Odyssial.
[X] Sorcerer of the Adamant Circle
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
It's not "The Fae Alone Remembering us", it's that Odyssial masterminded one of the greatest expansions of Creation's borders of all time, and in doing so, won the loyalty of much of the Host who participated.
I'd say that we're just as likely to have descendents of his retinue survive and remember the ruler who lead them to glory and victory, as we are to stumble across surviving workings of his.
Of course, it's hard to beat hard and fast benefits when everyone's convinced all of our deeds will turn to dust no matter what we do, and thus, the only worthwhile investments are what we can carry over directly to the Second Age
It makes me seem like a frothing moralist rather then having legitimate arguments of my own.
I'd say that we're just as likely to have descendents of his retinue survive and remember the ruler who lead them to glory and victory, as we are to stumble across surviving workings of his.
Of course, it's hard to beat hard and fast benefits when everyone's convinced all of our deeds will turn to dust no matter what we do, and thus, the only worthwhile investments are what we can carry over directly to the Second Age
It makes me seem like a frothing moralist rather then having legitimate arguments of my own.
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Well, I realise that it's not really "The Fae Alone Remembering us" and that there'll be enourmous ripples of his actions either way which is why I don't feel decided enough to actually vote.
It's just that, as you said, hard and fast benefits and things guaranteed to persist are kind of hard to beat in regard to effects on the Age of Sorrow.
Honestly, the fact that Subduer does seem to make for a much more interesting story for Odyssial would be enough to decide things for me if I didn't suspect Sorcery would unlock even greater adventures in the last epoch.
It's just that, as you said, hard and fast benefits and things guaranteed to persist are kind of hard to beat in regard to effects on the Age of Sorrow.
Honestly, the fact that Subduer does seem to make for a much more interesting story for Odyssial would be enough to decide things for me if I didn't suspect Sorcery would unlock even greater adventures in the last epoch.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
That's not been guaranteed at all, all that we know is that one option will unlock that prevents the Wracking from happening if have Adamant Circle Sorcerer And Blade of the Battle Maiden. The only other effects we know of are "Better Reincarnation fidelity" (Which can be good or bad, depending on how much Odyssial gets to imprint on Ulyssian. But even a fraction of an iota of his nature imprinting on Ulyssian will result in him pretty much rewriting the poor boy.), and "More distribution of Sorcery throughout his demesne" (Which is kind of neutral, because most of the Sorcerers are going to be killed and conscripted, and any Workings that require maintenence are going to expire by the modern era).
That doesn't mean "A whole wealth and vista of new options opens up", Odyssial's skill is so great that he doesn't Need Sorcery to create wonders, he can do it with his own divine arete. It's just another tool in his toolbox that lets him do some things faster, or with greater accuracy. At the level he plays at though, Sorcery is hardly mandatory to leave a lasting legacy.
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