[Exalted, ?] Most High

Wasn't Ody's most important things his sister and tribe before he Exalted?

Did he not try to find a way for them (And fail, only to Exalt in revenge.)

What, is the point of saving the world if those you care about are no longer there? Ody/Uly might be a poor friend, but he is still a friend.
Friends don't ditch friends to save the world, C'mon Uly/Ody POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!

After all, if you've already failed to save someone... if you've already failed a perfect run... why not at least enjoy the slower but more enjoyable route to victory and successes that may just make that final win all the sweeter.

Sure more people die and suffer along the way, but... could it not be worse if you reach your full potential with a hidden flaw in our heart caused by EFFICIENCY and HARDNESS?
 
The incarnae are exceptionally corrupt. This is a major theme of exalted. The majority are not doing their job. Also, the perfect world will likely vastly reduce their power over mortals and mortal's need of them.
They have a huge incentive to fight him


Where does it say that?

The gods are corrupt and screwing with mortals , the Incarne are just playing the cosmic xbox in the Jade Pleasure Dome because they're "too old for this shit".
 
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Getting more incentive for us to get stronger is not something I'm very interested in. We already tend to go for the option that gives us more power, so we dont need any more incentive to do so.

I rather develop Luseng and interact more with our friends, which Embracing would almost certainly go against, what with the change in priorities.
 
The gods are corrupt and screwing with mortals , the Incarne are just playing the cosmic in the Jade Pleasure Dome because they're "too old for this shit".
Huh, *looks it up*
ok, I thought incarna = every god in heaven. but according to wiki its only sun, luna, 5 maidens of fate, and gaia (honorary member)
 
Oh yeah apparently embrace the power means we abandon Luseng rendering many of the previous updates mostly pointless.
 
Let's face it, we've been playing house and does everything on our enemies' term up to this point, on fear that we are too weak to face our enemies. Embracing clarity gives us the option to gather our power much faster to break free from such idiotic illusion, and shows us what is truly important in the grand scheme of things:

Lunar waifu
moon a shit
 
The incarnae are exceptionally corrupt. This is a major theme of exalted. The majority are not doing their job. Also, the perfect world will likely vastly reduce their power over mortals and mortal's need of them.
They have a huge incentive to fight him


Where does it say that?
I mean during the usurpation when Odyssial apparently decided to destroy Creation in his death-throws which sounds kind of spiteful
I don't think that's what was going on. He was just fighting full power, and the byproducts of that were enough to possibly destroy creation.
Nah, thomasfoolery has the right of it. Odyssial fighting at full power was just doing too much damage to the fabric of existence and even meta-existence. Not even the Wyld or Oblivion could have survived, in time.

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Getting more incentive for us to get stronger is not something I'm very interested in. We already tend to go for the option that gives us more power, so we dont need any more incentive to do so.
You guys really should consider choosing options with more XP in them. I think so far you've chosen... 2?
I don't know if you guys are going to be willing to ever take a truly XP-granting Red Option...
 
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OK here's my two cents. First, I don't think Odyssial's involvement with the Great Curse did him any long term favors. His reworking of it probably did produce tremendous short term benefits, but at the same time he didn't do anything about all the other Cursed Solars as far as we know. Ultimately, his quest to reform the world failed and he was forced to rely on his contingencies because of that. If he'd fixed everyone's great curse then you don't get the Usurpation. You might get all of Creation working against him, but you might also get Lea helping to tell everyone "Hey this will actually make things better" so they'll go along with it.

In the end Odyssial failed. He rose to a height greater than all others, became a mighty entity beyond all others, and he still failed. Following his path will allow Ulyssian to grow mighty indeed, but he'll have the same damn flaws and he's starting MUCH further behind the eightball, so I'd say he'll probably STILL fail. That's my opinion anyway.
 
Is the current character sheet indicative of Odyssial's peak?

Indicative in what way? It's not even close to his peak if that's what you're asking.

Problem is that a significant portion of the voters want to take the exact same path as before, because surely it'll work this time.

In fact it would, Rihaku has said numerous times that the current Creation couldn't stand against Odyssial in the fullness of his power.

That being said the choice is not taking the exact same path, this really shouldn't even be in contention considering Rihaku even explicitly went and made a threadmarked post detailing what it would entail. Which is prioritizing focus on the two Defining Intimacies he's already had for the entire quest as Ulyssian, in order to save the world. The ties he formed as Ulyssian will still exist, and he'll have to reconcile them with his current motivations.

The idea that crippling ourselves and not focusing on saving the world will work produce better results than empowering ourselves and focusing on saving it is just...

If one wants to fiddle while Rome burnsPrioritize our friends over the good we could do if we tried that's a valid, if selfish motivation on it's own. No need to pretend it will also achieve better results at the goal it explicitly spurns.
 
The problem is that the justification for increased power is delving deeper and deeper into Odyssial's memories and thought patterns, which will lead us to come to the same conclusions.

Let's not forget that it was not Odyssial destroying the world, it was that the power necessary to complete his plan was inherently enough to destroy it just by exerting himself. And people will certainly try to snuff us out if we look to be following in his footsteps that closely, up to and including "Luna takes the field and eats you"
 
I meant, is that representative of what he was like. Is that his essentially. But you've already answered that. So thank you.

Did we ever get a specific character sheet for Odyssial or just snips and feats?
No, but I gathered at one point all the vote choices we made during Odyssial's life, though at that point the Peerless City/Reincarnation was still somewhat up in the air so I included them both. Here is the final version with the Peerless City removed.
Dawn - Turn back East, and return to the camp. That darkness will fall, seems inevitable. Whatever abyss may come, you will confront it head-on, stare into its depths unblinking. The world may be changing, but the paths to victory remain the same. Ruthlessness. Strategy. And above all else, the unrelenting will to prevail. It is not by choice that you live by the sword, but if not for the sword, you would not be alive.

Aspect: The Strategist
Superlative Quality: Will
Greatness: 9 to 10
Heartlessness: 7 to 10
Fury - No. He will not play the daeva's outrageous mockery of a game. The blame for these murders lies solely on the murderer, that is simplicity itself. And justice will be had, ten thousand times over for every brother and sister they have taken from this world. First Larsyifex, and then the daeva that spawned him, and then the Titan that spawned them, and then all the Titans who in their arrogance decided to create, and torment their creations. He will root them out with fire and sword. He will bring against them such terror that they will wish themselves never to have been born.

It is not wrong to care. But to those that care nothing for humankind, Odyssial will not extend even the slightest sliver of humanity. Let them suffer the fury of his thousandfold vengeance, and pray he does not ask more. [Heartlessness +1, can be argued down to +0 or up to +2**. No Greatness XP modifier. Odyssial, if he lives, will persecute the Primordial War with terrible effectiveness. However, he will remain emotionally available to some small circle of friends outside of his Lunar Mate.]

**High Heartlessness can be useful in certain situations!

The Field Commander - Swift as sunlight, he lead always from the front. A masterful strategist, ever-inventive, his tactics and thoroughness shocked and bewildered enemies and allies alike. A consummate polymath, he commanded the unwavering and absolute loyalty of his legions despite his cold, furious disposition.

Masked Queen - Strong where he was weak, direct where he was circuitous, together they eclipsed even the sun and moon. The thousand-faced seductress stalked the gardens and courtyards of the Titans and the Fair, plying her wiles, pouring poison and honey into their councils of war. Masks beneath masks she hid, and in all the history of Creation her true name was spoken only when they were alone. A love made strong by weakness: the weakness of her true face, and the weakness of his kindness.
Lord Strategos - The thoroughness and genius of his tactics, culminating in the episode of the Odyssian Horse, led to Odyssial's ordination as the Lord Strategos of the Exalted Host, the highest of High Command. His dictates would shape the very nature of the Primordial War, and by its end the Titans indeed began to wish that they had never heard the name Odyssial.

*As the foremost military commander of the Host, Odyssial's political power and prestige are greatly augmented.
*Unlocks certain options in later epochs.
*For each point of Heartless Might, raise the total Greatness XP multiplier by 20% linearly.

+ / - If Odyssial has too many titles, he may be seen as too powerful. This will attract enemies, and their inevitable destruction will further solidify Odyssial's terrifying reputation. However, dealing with them will obstruct the progress of actual work.

The Rose Blossoms - Though he spent much of his time pursuing self-improvement, Odyssial spent much time as well with his closest companion from the Primordial War. Together, they suffered many tribulations, went on many adventures, and shared many joys. In the blackness of his hatred for the world and its makers, she comforted and supported him without judgement. When she danced in the maelstrom of masks, when she lost all memory of her own heart, he was there to remind her of the true shape of her face, which to him was always its most beautiful.

*Improves relationship with Lealope.
*Lealope is more likely to be affectionate during the Second Age.
*Halves effective Heartlessness rating when dealing with Lealope.

+/- Reduced effective Heartlessness is sometimes a benefit, sometimes a drawback, when dealing with one of the Exalted. Even one so close as one's Lunar mate.

The Sword of Endings - Sepulchral Pearlescence was a spry, slight Chosen of Endings, violet of eye and black of hair, with a crooked (and knowing) grin ever present on her face. Her delicate alabaster fingers, unblemished by even a single day's hard work, were threaded through with prayer strips to the Haywain and the Sword. In her right hand she held mourning, and in her left hand she held death. She began following Odyssial in the Primordial War, to manage and observe the effects that his storm of endings sent through Fate. Later, that was made her permanent assignation, after it was determined that this was cheaper than setting up a separate sub-Bureau to handle endings of which Odyssial was the cause.

*Gain a powerful ally, Sepulchral Pearlescence.
*On their many adventures together, Odyssial and Pearl accumulate a staggering quantity of Artifact ingredients. They are all of them used to forge a sword whose legend will echo down the centuries, a sword formed from the severing of ten thousand legends.
*The Unfinished Blade is Artifact 4. Options in further epochs may increase its Artifact rating.

*If this option is not chosen, she may still be assigned to Odyssial, but may not like him or the immense amount of work he generates for the Bureau of Destiny.
Subduer of the Wyld - The Lord Strategos did not permit the Exalted Host to languish into complacency, not in those bright days. Countless horrors he had scoured from the face of Creations or its depths, in centuries past, and now that Creation was relatively secure, he sought to strike at the source. Amassing a grand expeditionary force of those Exalts willing to accompany him, including a full million of the Dragon-Blooded, he carved out great swathes of Creation from the infinite Wyld, doing battle with the grandest and most terrible hegemons of that primeval chaos.

*This is a title
*As the man who forged order from boiling chaos, first by slaughtering the numberless monsters it spawned, and secondly by taming great expanses of it to the Laws of Creation, Odyssial's legend will spread further and last longer, especially in the border-lands of Creation.
*The titanic wealth produced by this expedition greatly increases Odyssial's personal resources, and raises the already-superior standard of living in lands he administrates.
*Odyssial gains a loyal Dragon-Blooded coterie, lead by the fanatical steadfast Fire Aspect, Inexhaustible Ember.

+ / - Inexhaustible Ember's older brother, Relentless Ember, hates you.

+ / - The Fair Folk will remember their enemy, Odyssial, and know that to fight him is futility, that he is the End of Stories, for his Story is surmounted by that inviolable edict: He always finds a way.

Apex Flight - Towards the highest and furthest reaches of personal perfection Odyssial ventured, power beyond finite comprehension, power beyond all reason. So great was he that he began to feel the very limits of Solar ability, a sense of constraint as he had not perceived since his mortal days. But he knew better than to surrender then. Even at the uttermost limit, he would find a way.

*Requires Greatness 9+
*Odyssial's persona power is supremely augmented. [+250,000 XP towards Greatness]
*Reduces the negative consequences of Heartlessness overall, as Odyssial both learns supreme self-discipline and becomes too powerful for consequences to stick.
*Odyssial may store one Artifact from the First Age in his anima. Learning the Charm Glorious Solar [Equivalent] yields the artifact to Ulyssian.

*The Incarnae, having perceived the true reaches of his power, know to treat Odyssial with caution and respect. For not even the Sun Unconquered favored his chances against the greatest of the Exalted Host. This caution emanates down to the least celestial functionary.

The Blade of the Battle-Maiden - Pearl's chief rival, Ascendant Rosary, grows in prestige and power. Though he harbors a magnificent hatred for Pearl herself, he is somewhat indifferent against Odyssial and mostly Lea, working against them half-heartedly. Still, the bizarre shenanigans this conflict breeds helps bring Odyssial and his Sidereal adviser closer together, while also adding a touch of much-needed levity to their work. In a somewhat misguided bid to drive a wedge between Odyssial and Pearl, Rosary delivered to him a peerless Sword-banner of the Maiden of Battles, which was well-integrated into the Unfinished Blade.

*Further improves relations with Pearl.
*The Unfinished Blade is now an Artifact 5, an instrument of peerless skill and formidable ambition.
*One day, Odyssial finds a superlative blackened armor, forged of moonsilver, starmetal, and soulsteel. It offers peerless protection while aiding greatly in his covert endeavors. (Artifact 5 Heavy Armor)

+ / - Ascendant Rosary is a Chosen of Battles, idealistic, brave, full of optimism for the world. He grows to become one of the strongest and most influential pillars of the Gold Faction. 50% chance he survives the Usurpation.

Petals of the Rose - Accompanying Lea on many of her own missions, Odyssial learns something approximating social graces and more intimately deepens his relationship with the Queen of Masks. Lea's influence over matters at court is expanded considerably, with Odyssial around to serve as the somewhat awkward iron fist to her velvet glove. Their love is strengthened to one capable of surviving menace, tribulation, and the passing of the ages: not even the Age of Sorrows can diminish this one shining answer.

*[Heartlessness - 1] Odyssial becomes a more well-rounded person, though he retains his... singular attributes. If you accept this benefit, you cannot buy off Heartlessness with XP in future epochs. Buying Heartlessness off with XP costs 250,000 XP before multipliers. Remember that "XP towards Greatness" is virtual XP that only affects your Greatness score. You will have to pay with real XP.
*Improves Lea's sanity in the Age of Sorrows.
*Further improves affection (synergy effect from prior choices).
*Lea becomes a better fighter; her combat prowess in the Age of Sorrows is improved.
The Lathe of Heaven - Perhaps this world is too cruel to exist after all.

So be it.

When the world and an ideal exist in disharmony, it is not the ideal that is wrong.

It is not the ideal that has to change.

It is the world.

*Odyssial initiates, and makes progress on, the Infinite Singularity Husk.

*If taken alongside The Fairest, this option inflicts the terror of Odyssial upon the Exalted Host themselves. Any Exalted who knew Odyssial in life may be subject to this effect, which is of a level comparable to the Great Curse and cannot be easily resisted. At the very least, they will be exceptionally wary of him, much more likely to run away than risk killing him and failing, earning the enmity of Odyssial's reincarnation for life.

*It is not completed.

*Other effects unknown.

+ / - Effects will be world-shaking. Monumental.

The Fairest - A great tournament was held, its victor promised the hand of the fairest among all Serenity's Chosen. Sensing a chance to test his skill, Odyssial entered readily. When at last he prevailed over all comers, he found to his surprise that the fairest of all Serenity's Chosen got along exceedingly well with him. The details and nature of their unique relationship are lost to time; neither her face nor name are known. When the Usurpers struck, that nameless Chosen disappeared, her location known only to Odyssial himself. Thus she survived the Sidereal's betrayal of their own, and it is said that to this day, she works to defend Creation.

*Proven in battle against the greatest exemplars of weapon-kind, the Unfinished Blade is at last complete. (Artifact N/A)

*The Fairest Chosen was wise beyond her years, but still relatively young at the time of the Usurpation. However, she has lived the full span of the Age of Sorrows, and would no doubt be a formidable ally, equal in power to the greatest luminaries of the Sidereal leadership - if she could be found.

*Creation's situation is not so terribly dire as it was, as, unfound, she was untouched by the Wracking.

*Whether they were lovers, close friends, or surrogate brother and sister, none can say. But what was known is that the counsel of the Fairest, alone, could reduce the terror of Odyssial's growing power without reducing his might. Greatly reduces the negative effects of Odyssial's permanent Limit Break for a brief period at the end of the Age of Dreams.

+ / - With brief forewarning of the Usurpation, Odyssial has extra time to prepare. Casualties significantly increased. Reincarnation chances increased.

+ / - The Fairest Chosen is a somewhat "secret" character and is extremely difficult to find. I don't expect you guys to find her unless Odyssial reincarnates perfectly and manages to retrieve that specific memory.

Reincarnation Planning - Odyssial puts serious effort into planning his reincarnation, sparing time from his own personal cultivation to doing so. Though his efforts are not as mighty as they would have been, were he a peerless sorcerer, nonetheless they are highly relevant.

*Scattered caches of isolated Dragon-Blood loyalists, prepared to keep the tradition alive and await Odyssial's reincarnation. Fidelity of traditions across five thousand years of decay, not guaranteed.

*Much greater chance of reincarnating perfectly. A perfect reincarnation correctly believes himself to be Odyssial, but does not possess more than a fraction of Odyssial's power or post-Exaltation memories. That is, at least, the case immediately following Exaltation.

*Odyssial makes preparations for his reincarnated self to have acceptable access to equipment, aid, and succor; they need only seek out Lea to be granted such. If they can't even seek out Lea, well, the reincarnation must have been imperfect.

+ / - Much greater chance of reincarnating perfectly. However, you guys will get to choose from a spectrum of options regarding Odyssial's reincarnation; even if he gets the best outcome, still it may not be perfect.
 
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Wasn't Ody's most important things his sister and tribe before he Exalted?

Did he not try to find a way for them (And fail, only to Exalt in revenge.)

What, is the point of saving the world if those you care about are no longer there? Ody/Uly might be a poor friend, but he is still a friend.
Friends don't ditch friends to save the world, C'mon Uly/Ody POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!

After all, if you've already failed to save someone... if you've already failed a perfect run... why not at least enjoy the slower but more enjoyable route to victory and successes that may just make that final win all the sweeter.
We do care about them we've just decided that saving the lives of millions is worth more then their feelings. By word of Rihaku Uly reconciling his emotions and intimicies with his new set of priorities will be one of the main conflicts brought about by embracing Clarity.
Sure more people die and suffer along the way, but... could it not be worse if you reach your full potential with a hidden flaw in our heart caused by EFFICIENCY and HARDNESS?
With great power comes great responsibility and Ulyssian has the capability and the drive to become omnipotent. Given how he knows exactly how many people he could save if he only applied himself wouldn't it be the height of selfishness to take the easy route and stick with his friends?
 
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Let's not forget that it was not Odyssial destroying the world, it was that the power necessary to complete his plan was inherently enough to destroy it just by exerting himself. And people will certainly try to snuff us out if we look to be following in his footsteps that closely, up to and including "Luna takes the field and eats you"
Since when has overwhelming opposition ever mattered to Ulyssian/Odyssial? He will find a way, this is something that all acknowledged and will remain true so long as we gain enough XP through fanworks dedicate ourselves fully and prepare for the task ahead.
 
With great power comes great responsibility and Ulyssian has the capability and the drive to become omnipotent. Given how he knows exactly how many people he could save if he only applied himself wouldn't it be the height of selfishness to take the easy route and stick with his friends?
You want to talk about selfishness? Odyssial killed tens of billions of innocents in a desperate, failed attempt to save his own life. That's what I call selfishness. He might have told himself that it was OK because he could fix it all after he won, but he didn't and he couldn't. Such a monumental failure demands reexamination of one's methods and priorities, not blindly continuing on a path already trodden. Mere tens of millions of casualties are a small price to pay to avoid undue haste that might cause the repeat of such catastrophes.
 
So, uh, guys. I know we're talking about the long-term ramifications of this decision, heavy shit like what our goals should be, but... consider what happens if we don't drop out of Limit Break? We just slaughtered the administrative class; Consolidate Power mentions creating a merit-based bureaucratic system, but we... do actually need to get around to the latter half of that. Which we probably won't if we vote to have a heroic BSOD.
 
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