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[Exalted, ?] Most High

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Rihaku said:
That's... heresy. I mean, you could do that, but that would be ultra questionable even for someone like Mnemon to say, much less suspected-of-being-Anathema Sesus Ulyssian.
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Good heresy or bad heresy? And what about informing everyone about us being PERSONALLY considered blessed by the Dragons by Hesiesh herself (even having a letter from the Mouth of Peace iirc)
 
1986ctcel said:
Good heresy or bad heresy? And what about informing everyone about us being PERSONALLY considered blessed by the Dragons by Hesiesh herself (even having a letter from the Mouth of Peace iirc)
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The letter doesn't say you were blessed by Hesiesh herself. Anyway, no amount of blessing from the dragons would cause you to spontaneously develop Solar Circle Sorcery, no one would believe that.
 
meianmaru said:
Hey, I'm on your side of the argument and I still find that smiley annoying. I want to avoid the arguments again degenerating to a vitriolic mess like with the vote before this. So please. No eye rolling. Just explaining our reasons. That method is also better for turning voters to our direction and helps when Rihaku is weighting arguments.
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If the guy is going to give a stupid response like that I'm not even going to respond to him. Just roll my eye's and move on. I'm not even reading anything he posts at this point. Its just a waste of time.
 
[X] Thaumaturgical Explorations
[X] Consolidate Power
[X] Govern Wisely, Govern Well x3
-[X] Bankrupt

Changing my mind. Sorcery is too hard to use right now, and we should probably maximize the city's prosperity and security while we have the chance. We should then be able to leave Luseng to run itself without things going awry if we get the new system thoroughly entrenched and a Limit Break will help there.
 
Rihaku said:
Hm, with The Lily's help and your Esssence raised, you should be able to accumulate roughly 18 Charms from this Wake the Sleeper roll, especially if you get a good stunt! That's the equivalent of 4-5 Titles' worth of power. That is actually a much larger personal power swing than Sorcery would give even with half a year of continuous personal enhancement, and it costs no XP!
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This right here? I want to know what options have this as a sub option. I'm going to remove my previous vote until I figure out which option best fits my views and still lets this happen.
 
So, if we go Thaumaturgy, are we just straight rolling dice, or are we applying any of the strange and multifarious dice modifiers Ulyssian has?
 
[X] Thaumaturgical Explorations
[X] Consolidate Power
[X] Govern Wisely, Govern Well x3
-[X] Bankrupt

Since Rihaku doesn't seem to be devil advocating so much as warning us...I must resign myself to go for Sorcery another time.
 
This is a chance to build the foundations of our prosperous city state. We've got overcrowding, famine, all that good stuff. Can't have legions of Sorcerously augmented mortals if they aren't, y'know, actually loyal to you. Well you can, but it'd just be asking for a rebellion.
 
You know what is worst about this sudden change in the voting towards non-sorcery? It makes too much fricking sense now that I've noticed a few things I missed before, and have had time to think about them. Flourishing, strong Luseng with the corruption of the viziers weeded out of its bureaucracy, and the system itself replaced with a more efficient one? Extreme popularity (if the Limit Break doesn't fuck up things there) amongst the populance? Moon (and maybe Nilul) arriving? And OOC, getting WtS before Anys Syn strikes and Governance covering us against at least some other possible methods she might use.

That many immediate advantages with long-reaching effects stacked up in a critical juncture, weighted against mostly extremely powerful mid-/late-game benefits? I'm might be a bit zealous about getting sorcery, but I want to be able to apply that sorcery on Luseng. We can't do that if we lose the city, be it to assault or disloyalty. And of course, Uly potentially dying obviously somewhat hampers those goals.

Considering that and the possibility that maybe, just maybe we are more likely to get that wonderful reality-bending power in the future if we get Occult 5 from Thaumaturgy ready for it, and have Luseng stable with additional helping hands ready to pick up our work temporarily for the possibility that we go shut ourself in our room to meditate about the fundamental forces of Creation... I'm switching votes.

So, with much bitterness and gnashing of teeth:

[X] Thaumaturgical Explorations
[X] Consolidate Power
[X] Govern Wisely, Govern Well x3
-[X] Bankrupt
 
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[X] Thaumaturgical Explorations
[X] Consolidate Power
[X] Govern Wisely, Govern Well x3
-[X] Bankrupt

We don't even have enough time to use our prophesies and we'll need even more time to get the full use out of sorcery. It will either lock us into neglecting our city or be completely wasted. It also means we don't get to use wake the sleeper on the armor, making us miss out on something like 16 free charms. Do you really expect sorcery to be worth 16 more combat charms, especially with a Sid elder coming to murder us?
Sorcery is the shiny vote completely ignoring the current situation, neglecting our city, our friends and the artifact 5 armor we just risked our life to get.
 
Rihaku said:
Hm, with The Lily's help and your Esssence raised, you should be able to accumulate roughly 18 Charms from this Wake the Sleeper roll, especially if you get a good stunt! That's the equivalent of 4-5 Titles' worth of power. That is actually a much larger personal power swing than Sorcery would give even with half a year of continuous personal enhancement, and it costs no XP!
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We have a tea-cup assassin after us.

[X] Thaumaturgical Explorations
[X] Consolidate Power
[X] Govern Wisely, Govern Well x3
-[X] Bankrupt your personal reserve to allow for intermittent use of Prophecies. Greatly enhances the effectiveness of this option, especially if taken 3 or more times.

I'm voting for this option so we can Wake the Sleeper as soon as possible. We could use the anti-assassin evocations sooner rather then later here. I'm going to keep on voting for the option that I consider to most likely improve our odds of survival. Before that was Sorcery but then I read what Rihaku said about WtS being an order of magnitude better and also immediate when we need immediate improvements.
Basically Sorcery takes too much time... I guess that is why Ambition is so broken.
 
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Vitaris said:
This is a chance to build the foundations of our prosperous city state. We've got overcrowding, famine, all that good stuff. Can't have legions of Sorcerously augmented mortals if they aren't, y'know, actually loyal to you. Well you can, but it'd just be asking for a rebellion.
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that is an extremely important point.
step 1: get loyalty
step 2: empower

skipping step 1 is a recipe for disaster
 
[X] Thaumaturgical Explorations
[X] Consolidate Power
[X] Govern Wisely, Govern Well x3
-[X] Bankrupt

As I said something always comes up whenever we try to go for Sorcery. Worked too hard to get that Armor and Lily's help to NOT use it especially when the Anys train is coming our way. And having Nilul and Moon here along with us reworking the system will give us time to actually learn sorcery without having to worry about the city falling apart while we're gone. At least with vOccult being trained to 5 and us not training we should still be able to get all 3 circles next round. If something else doesn't come up again that is.
 
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Rihaku said:
The Lily is a potential love interest, along with Moon, Nilul, Ivory, Lea, etc. Not all potential love interests will be interested in Uly from the start, though!
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Well it would suck for Lea to left out in the cold especially since she's a defining intimacy (and going against those are bad), Ivory is one of our besties from the First Age, Moon and Nilul are on the verge of becoming defining intimacies and such, plus Lily might stick around to give us more awesome buffs if she starts having feelings for us so I guess we'll just have to put all of Odyssial/Ulyssian's intellect to work on "Finding a way". Maybe start on using Heaven-turning-calculations in order to setup a schedule and leveraging Moon's desire to be part of a "sworn brotherhood" and all that entails :p
 
[X] Thaumaturgical Explorations
[X] Consolidate Power
[X] Govern Wisely, Govern Well x3
-[X] Bankrupt your personal reserve to allow for intermittent use of Prophecies. Greatly enhances the effectiveness of this option, especially if taken 3 or more times.
 
mrttao said:
that is an extremely important point.
step 1: get loyalty
step 2: empower

skipping step 1 is a recipe for disaster
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Yeah, I think people are just afraid that skipping Sorcery now means we'll never get it at all, but still... you gotta walk before you can run, and build a powerbase before you can exploit it. We'll get other chances. It probably helps that I'm not nearly as focused on Sorcery as @meianmaru or @Dark Lord Bob are, though.
 
Though, to be honest, you don't really need loyal mortals if you can pop out a 3CD equivalent once a month. One 3CD is probably worth at least 5 Size 5 Battle Groups of Elite Troops lead by Sorcerously augmented veterans, and the ability to just create them means they'll be made loyal!
 
DOOMPOTATO said:
We're at effective max essence. We can flashbuy Wake the Sleeper can't we?
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wake the sleeper doesn't cost any XP, the limitation on it is that we can only use it once per "story".
The next "story" starts when moon arrives, which will happen when zao decides its safe for her to do so, which will happen when we perform enough "govern well" actions.

from our character sheet:
Rihaku said:
Awoken Sleeper (Utility, secondary Martial) - Through raw intellectual firepower and sheer dint of calculation, the Solar may awaken through brute-force derivation what would normally take countless encounters and tribulations to discover. He analyses an artifact to such depths that he can, effectively, replicate the effects of long experience through a mental breakthrough alone. Making accurate predictions from so ineffable and unlimited a well of power as an Artifact is difficult enough; to do so for its space of interactions with the similarly imperishable might of an Exalt, even one's own self - nigh-impossible. Truly, the Solar has ascended to the greatest heights of evidentiary induction: beyond the fate of nations, he plots the fate of the Exalted themselves. But though he has reached the mountaintop, still the heavens lie above.

*Once per story the Solar may touch an Artifact and exert an immense amount of effort and will to enter a trance of analysis that yields numerous additional Evocations from that Artifact. He may do so only for himself until E5+.
*The Solar may also touch any Artifact or general device and expend a much lesser amount of effort to discern its function, purpose, and how safely to use it. Certain First Age Artifacts and other Artifacts of comparable power may only yield a clue; this function may only be used on such Artifacts once per story (per Artifact).
*The Solar's powers of mathematical calculation transcend mere mortal limits; he gains superhuman power to his math-related Occult, Lore, Bureaucracy, rolls, as well as other stunted rolls relating to mathematics with GM dispensation.
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Rihaku said:
Though, to be honest, you don't really need loyal mortals if you can pop out a 3CD equivalent once a month. One 3CD is probably worth at least 5 Size 5 Battle Groups of Elite Troops lead by Sorcerously augmented veterans, and the ability to just create them means they'll be made loyal!
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Yes but then we have to figure out a way to HIDE them so people don't realize we're an Anathema, plus the more loyal they are the more likely they are to accept us when we reveal our GLORIOUS SOLAR POWER!
 
Rihaku said:
You've... had Wake the Sleeper for several updates now. It's the once per story limitation that is the bottleneck.
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Ah, I thought it was a charm that you could buy multiple times or something and you unlocked evocations each time. Would probably be inefficient now that I think about it. Have we even bought enough evocations to do it again?

Edit: We need to manually buy another evocation before we can do it
 
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1986ctcel said:
Yes but then we have to figure out a way to HIDE them so people don't realize we're an Anathema, plus the more loyal they are the more likely they are to accept us when we reveal our GLORIOUS SOLAR POWER!
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At a certain point, it becomes far more burdensome than beneficial to hide our true nature. If we can pop out Third Circle Demons, we've probably passed that threshold.

Anyway, man, I step out for a bit and everybody has talked themselves out of getting Sorcery. There will always be opportunity costs, guys. Shit we'll have to pass up to acquire phenomenal cosmic power. The safety and order provided by Govern Well is illusory, because Anys Syn can and will bust in like the kool aid (wo)man and smash our shining towers to bits. She's Chosen by Battles, and what do battles do but bring ruin? I want the long-term safety for our friends that comes with empowering them.
 
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