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[Exalted, ?] Most High

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The Grail does have limits however, for beings on the tier of Divine Spirits are beyond it. I also do not think that a Odyssial could immediately solo the world. The authority of Gaia, the power of the counterforce. These are all things that he could conquer with time, but not as a faceroll I think.

I could however be wrong. You are the person who knows Odyssial the best after all!
 
Alectai said:
I'm not doing it for "Close to Lealope" I'm doing it because "Insane Elder Lunar = Pain"
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She's pretty far from you in the Second Age, you'd have to seek her out or give her a reason to cross half of Creation.

Dark Lord Bob said:
Personally, I prefer Sorcery to Wyld or Battlemaiden, though I'd take any over Petals. Sorcery gives root level access to reality, and is thematically suited for our "Above all" stuff. We hated the Primordials so much that we stole their right to control reality. Also, if we prevent the Wracking it isn't necessarily incredibly dangerous to us, as we'll likely have at least one Elder Gold-faction member surviving who liked Ody. Seriously, Solar Workings can change the metaphysics of the entire setting, and Ody has done multiple to augment himself. Do you trust other people to be as good at Sorcery as Ody?
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Everyone's saying "likely," you guys know he only has a 50% chance of surviving, and he doesn't even particularly like Odyssial!
 
Wait after rereading the last couple of pages of discussion, what would an improved fidelity in Odyssial's reincarnation mean for Ulyssian?
 
Dark Lord Bob said:
@Orm Embar Do you not want "power beyond the furthest reaches of mere superhuman skill". When Odyssial's skill is called "mere", you're in extreme territory.
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Magic is potent, having an army of demigods loyal to You in particular is more potent still.

Sorcery is hardly a "Press Buttan to Win" tool in Third Edition, it provides a useful toolkit, but it's not an unmatchable one--and it's actually theoretically possible for a sufficiently talented Sorcerer to conduct Workings one level above what they would be able to cast conventionally just by being really, really good at layering the effects of lesser circles on each other. So it's not even a "Nobody could ever match this!" Response.
 
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Would increasing the total area of creation and destroying large swathes of the Raksha assist in making the Balorian crusade less damaging? If so then that would actually make the Second age much better overall.
 
Dark Lord Bob said:
@Orm Embar Do you not want "power beyond the furthest reaches of mere superhuman skill"? When Odyssial's skill is called "mere", you're in extreme territory.
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The assumption was that, if we're hitting the Greatness cap anyway, Odyssial would threaten/bribe/extort someone else into performing the Workings that would empower him. Not taking Sorcery means we are marginally less versatile, but does not affect our ultimate power level.
 
Mannan said:
Would increasing the total area of creation and destroying large swathes of the Raksha assist in making the Balorian crusade less damaging? If so then that would actually make the Second age much better overall.
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I imagine that it would provide a certain amount of ablative armour, yes. Especially as Odyssial would be in charge of preparing the defenses, and he wouldn't build them to break easily or be reliant on something as easily run down or broken as a big pillar of stuff on the edge of the world.

Not that those exist in 3rd edition anyway.
 
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Orm Embar said:
The assumption was that, if we're hitting the Greatness cap anyway, Odyssial would threaten/bribe/extort someone else into performing the Workings that would empower him. Not taking Sorcery means we are marginally less versatile, but does not affect our ultimate power level.
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I don't trust anyone to be as qualified or motivated as Odyssial. Still, we could ask: @Rihaku What benefits would be miss out on by getting others to perform Working on us?
I quite like that versatility, more than any option save Apex.
It did say it would provide general benefits to other options, I figure being able to rewrite the laws of reality would help with trying to surpass the limitations of the Solar Exaltation, and in passing that potential onto any reincarnations.
 
Alectai said:
I imagine that it would provide a certain amount of ablative armour, yes. Especially as Odyssial would be in charge of preparing the defenses, and he wouldn't build them to break easily or be reliant on something as easily run down or broken as a big pillar of stuff on the edge of the world.

Not that those exist in 3rd edition anyway.
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Okay changing votes... again ...for hopefully the last time.
[X] Subduer of the Wyld
[X] Apex Flight
[X] Blade of the Battle Maiden
[X] Petals of the Rose


And again with the 3rd edition, I can't wait until it releases so I can finally buy it. I can't even find any of the leaked documents.
 
Menwearpink said:
The Grail does have limits however, for beings on the tier of Divine Spirits are beyond it. I also do not think that a Odyssial could immediately solo the world. The authority of Gaia, the power of the counterforce. These are all things that he could conquer with time, but not as a faceroll I think.
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Well, my thought process was basically, Ea can destroy the world no problem, the Grail can create Ea, so assuming the weakest possible Grail that still fits with canon, Odyssial's minimum offensive power level is "can destroy the world no problem."

Avalon is a nigh-perfect defense against pretty much anything in the setting, so assuming the weakest possible Grail that still fits with canon, Odyssial's minimum defensive power level is "nigh-perfect defense against pretty much anything in the setting."

Different configurations of matter / energy / prana can yield different levels of actual power; consider a uranium deposit vs a nuclear bomb, or a normal person vs Aoko Aozaki. The difference in mass-energy is not high, but the effective potential is astronomically variable. Humans could depopulate Gaia fairly easily, so it's extremely likely that the existence of a prana budget for Odyssial will not yield an Odyssial so weak he would have the remotest trouble with the setting. It's simply not fair; it's like the Grail summoning a Xeelee self-replicator, only more of a stomp than that, because at least the Xelee are affected by time travel. This is like dropping Mystra into Westeros.

We know it is possible for exceptionally talented humans to attain a Magic.

Assuming High First Age / Pre-Usurpation Odyssial, he will within femtoseconds of arrival deduce all Five Magics*, attain infinite energy via the Kaleidoscope / Aoi Magic, immediately restore himself to actual full power, and then stomp. If somehow he cannot attain the Magics, he will spontaneously generate a Reality Marble with the attributes necessary to restore himself to full power and contain it within himself Nrvnqsr-style, and then stomp. This is assuming that the strength of his Reality Marble does not immediately overwrite Gaia / ORT given his much higher conceptual / paradigmatic priority.

Remember, Odyssial is stronger than the Unconquered Sun, so any Odyssial produced by the Grail's energy budget would be at least stronger than any UCS produced by the Grail's energy budget. He is so ludicrously overpowered that he shouldn't really be used in any crossover except maybe with cosmic-level soft science fiction.

*Thank god that 3E removed ticks so we're not locked into seconds being a relevant unit of time for E10 combat.
 
[X] Sorcerer of the Adamant Circle
[X] Apex Flight
[X] The Blade of the Battle-Maiden
[X] Petals of the Rose

I'm conflicted on 'petals of the rose'. I'd rather get 'subduing the wyld', but petals has a higher synergy with sorcery. If uly isn't the reincarnation of odyssial as planned, then it doesn't matter how sane or affectionate lea remains because it isn't focused on us.


And i'm not giving up sorcery because I want to stop the wracking.

Apex for personal power, but depending on whether a rep with fairies is more useful than a rep with celestial dignitaries i'd be willing to switch.

This is a +personal power +social build, just like last round. Those lazy exalts get to party in their palaces for now because the lord strategos is too busy getting strong.
 
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Dark Lord Bob said:
It did say it would provide general benefits to other options, I figure being able to rewrite the laws of reality would help with trying to surpass the limitations of the Solar Exaltation, and in passing that potential onto any reincarnations.
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It would be nice to have our cake and eat it too, I'll admit, and it's odd that the strongest of the Exalted host is not a sorcerer... but I can't see a way to make it work. I understand and sympathize with your reasons for pushing the option.
 
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Rihaku said:
Well, my thought process was basically, Ea can destroy the world no problem, the Grail can create Ea, so assuming the weakest possible Grail that still fits with canon, Odyssial's minimum offensive power level is "can destroy the world no problem."

Avalon is a nigh-perfect defense against pretty much anything in the setting, so assuming the weakest possible Grail that still fits with canon, Odyssial's minimum defensive power level is "nigh-perfect defense against pretty much anything in the setting."

Different configurations of matter / energy / prana can yield different levels of actual power; consider a uranium deposit vs a nuclear bomb, or a normal person vs Aoko Aozaki. The difference in mass-energy is not high, but the effective potential is astronomically variable. Humans could depopulate Gaia fairly easily, so it's extremely likely that the existence of a prana budget for Odyssial will not yield an Odyssial so weak he would have the remotest trouble with the setting. It's simply not fair; it's like the Grail summoning a Xeelee self-replicator, only more of a stomp than that, because at least the Xelee are affected by time travel. This is like dropping Mystra into Westeros.

We know it is possible for exceptionally talented humans to attain a Magic.

Assuming High First Age / Pre-Usurpation Odyssial, he will within femtoseconds of arrival deduce all Five Magics*, attain infinite energy via the Kaleidoscope / Aoi Magic, immediately restore himself to actual full power, and then stomp. If somehow he cannot attain the Magics, he will spontaneously generate a Reality Marble with the attributes necessary to restore himself to full power and contain it within himself Nrvnqsr-style, and then stomp. This is assuming that the strength of his Reality Marble does not immediately overwrite Gaia / ORT given his much higher conceptual / paradigmatic priority.

Remember, Odyssial is stronger than the Unconquered Sun, so any Odyssial produced by the Grail's energy budget would be at least stronger than any UCS produced by the Grail's energy budget. He is so ludicrously overpowered that he shouldn't really be used in any crossover except maybe with cosmic-level soft science fiction.

*Thank god that 3E removed ticks so we're not locked into seconds being a relevant unit of time for E10 combat.
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I want to see this happen.
 
Orm Embar said:
It would be nice to have our cake and eat it too, I'll admit, and it's odd that the strongest of the Exalted host is not a sorcerer... but I can't see a way to have my cake and eat it too. I understand and sympathize with your reasons for pushing the option.
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You know, I was going to write something about how while we seem to be of usually similar opinion sadly we must part ways now. Instead, I'll quote a great man,
"Then our opinions differ."
 
Hah, I see!

Odyssial was just sheer, distilled bullshit, I imagine the reason why he would not learn Sorcery would be because "It does not provide sufficiently greater utility compared to my conventional skills and ability to hire others to perform for me to justify the time and energy it would take to master it to my satisfaction".
 
Rihaku said:
It wouldn't make a very good story! It'd like porting a Culture ship into most settings. "And then the Culture won."
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I believe that some of the culture novels explicitly deal with Culture representatives dealing with a situation in which they utterly outclass their competition. I am specifically reminded of the novel "Player of Games". It is possible to write a good story in which the characters possess overwhelming differences in capability. In the context of the overwhelming power of Odyssial within most potential crossover settings the story could deal with how he leverages his power and explores a new world. I think that seeing the impact that Odyssial makes on the Fate setting would actually make a very good story even if it would be a "Curb-Stomp" in regards to direct confrontation.
 
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