Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Forced to Compromise isn't it, but "Our Assumptions are being Challenged" is quite possible.
[Exalted, ?] Most High
- Thread starter Rihaku
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- exalted (white wolf)
Forced to Compromise isn't it, but "Our Assumptions are being Challenged" is quite possible.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
If we can't learn to deal with people questioning our ideology then we're going to have get used to being knee deep in corpses, besides what Defining or Major intimacy would we have been forced to act against?
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
None, and that's the weird thing--Lily hasn't actually done or said anything that challenged our major Intimacies. And if Odyssial's Limit Condition is "Any time I must re-examine my assumptions"... Uh, that's something of a problem, as people will be challenging our assumptions all the god damn time, because Odyssial is fucking crazy.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
Perhaps the Limit Condition comes from killing people in cold blood when Odyssial knows it isn't necessary but is expedient, and the resulting Limit Break is basically Deliberate Cruelty or another "what I was going to do anyway" Break, so it simply reinforces the mentality that led him to start expediently removing obstacles in the first place?
We can hardly dismiss the commonalities between the two sets of circumstances, though. Two isn't much to draw a pattern from, but it's all we have to go on.
Everybody has their own unique Limit trigger to go along with Limit gained from opposing Intimacies. You can't just 'get used to it', it's part of the Great Curse. You can, however, learn to avoid circumstances that would cause it.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Or alternately, there's no Limit Condition at all, and what keeps happening is one of Odyssial's Modifications allows us to Limit Break essentially at will? We already know he adjusted things that way.
In that sense, we might not actually have that much Limit at all, we're just getting opportunities to Break and vent it whenever we're presented with a thorny situation where "Just removing them from play" is a viable solution. I mean, here, our options are "Walk away with a defeated enemy behind us, try to turn that enemy into an ally, or (LIMIT BREAK): Kill them in cold blood".
And with Ayala, it was "LIMIT BREAK: Not good enough (MURDER)", with the other actually negotiating.
I mean, if we were really that close when dealing with Ayala, we probably would have Broken once we ate some Permanent Limit with the Ambition Evocations. We didn't.
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- Location
- Southern Virginia
The choice to deliberately kill someone not because it is necessary but because it advances Ulyssian's interests is a commonality there, though. And if the Limit Break simply reinforces the mentality for doing so, and rewards Ulyssian with a full WP refresh... well, I think we've got the infinite WP reactor of the Late Odyssial period, and what made him so terrible.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Hmm, let's also not forget that the higher his Heartlessness got, the "Less time he spent dealing with problems". Which suggests that "Someone disagrees with me? (MURDER)" became his default response, which at the level he was at by the end, was something he could do with impunity to pretty much everyone. Certainly, just killing anyone who bothered you is a good way to make them stop bothering you forevermore!
In other words, the higher his Heartlessness (Implied Permanent Limit) got, the more likely that he took the "Most Expedient" solution to his problems--which at the level he was at, was chiefly other Celestials. And the most expeditent way to solve problems is by killing them after all.
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- Location
- Southern Virginia
It's also classic jackass behavior from the powerful that hearkens back to Larsyifex. It's conceivable he might gain Limit from that naturally and then weaponized it. And then became consumed by the feedback cycle it introduced. It certainly makes for a fittingly ironic statement.
Hm. Seems like a possibility, though I was operating under the assumption that he entered Limit Break and then he killed them. Because, otherwise, he... what? Kills her and then Breaks, spending the Limit Break tramping around in the wilderness?
In any case, if we have in fact successfully deduced Odyssial's Limit Condition, we can mitigate the Breaks or avoid them entirely, largely obviating the 'need' (which I contend never really existed in the first place) for someone to restrain us.
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- Location
- Southern Virginia
If Ulyssian wasn't at Limit 10 before killing Ayala/Fei Ling or the Lily, then obviously he must be after doing so.
And if this is the case it also means we don't have to kill the Lily to find out what the Limit Condition and Break are, and in fact it should really strongly discourage voting to kill people in cold blood when we have alternatives.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Well, again, we know that we weren't actually That close to Limit Breaking when we had the option to do so against Ayala, or we'd have Limit Broken shortly after coming to Luseng and grabbing a huge pile of new Ambition Evocations, some of which added Permanent Limit.
That didn't happen.
My bet is that Odyssial gained the ability to Limit Break on command, whenever he had the opportunity to solve a problem through destroying the subject of the problem cleanly and efficiently. It is the fastest way to remove rivals after all, and since he had to do so frequently, he might as well refresh his resources when doing so. Part of the reason that "Incredible Self Discipline" helped mitigate the negative effects of his Heartlessness rating was because he gained the self-discipline to recognize that "Okay, maybe this will save time, but it may cause a hassle down the road, so I will not push my Limit Break button now"
That didn't happen.
My bet is that Odyssial gained the ability to Limit Break on command, whenever he had the opportunity to solve a problem through destroying the subject of the problem cleanly and efficiently. It is the fastest way to remove rivals after all, and since he had to do so frequently, he might as well refresh his resources when doing so. Part of the reason that "Incredible Self Discipline" helped mitigate the negative effects of his Heartlessness rating was because he gained the self-discipline to recognize that "Okay, maybe this will save time, but it may cause a hassle down the road, so I will not push my Limit Break button now"
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Uh, no, we do? Because, in character, Ulyssian will have no bloody idea what we've deduced or whether or not it's even correct, and even if he does know, then he would still have to discharge the Limit Break somehow. And given our Limit Condition... well, this is about as good a chance as we're going to get, honestly. Increased reputation, Artifact weapon, access to the Mountain (yes, I know it's dangerous and we might be able to finagle it anyway, I'm just putting the fact that we would, for sure, be able to enter on the table), massive experience boost, etc...
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Rihaku
The Internet
Odyssial's Limit Break helps Odyssial no matter what situation he finds himself in. It helps him to improve his circumstances, increase his personal power, and accrue advantage. Sometimes the pursuit of advantage ceases to be ceaseless. Sometimes the mortal mind can tire, the mortal will can flag. With this improvement, that is no longer an issue with Odyssial. He sees things... clearly.
I think you used to said that Ody think " Why they empower their enemy with great curse?.Weird"
The reasoning of the Titans is not worth understanding. Their bizarre inhuman values lead them only to self-sabatoge and ruin. Look at the Dragon's Shadow: in his desire to love himself, he doomed himself to perpetual loss! A wholly counterproductive endeavour.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
My bet is getting his Limit Condition (x2) plus violating Odyssial's Major Intimacy (Nio) would have been enough to fuck him up.
Just because YOU don't want to murder Moon! Meanwhile, the Lea train has no brakes.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, but that's a max of 3-4 Dice there, not "Guaranteed Limit Break". The fact that "Limit Break" wasn't even in question for this suggests there's more to it than "Violates X Intimacies and thus, Limit Breaks"
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AZATHOTHoth
༼ つ ☀️_☀️ ༽つ
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
H11 was "Strongly reccomended that you don't go this high". Even Rihaku, master of offering incentives for players to make bad decisions, cautioned players from going that far.
I suspect that Odyssial would have actually destroyed Creation at that point.
Greatness 11 was not even possible to achieve.
Also, you know what? I'm fucking curious. I want to see Limit Break. I want experience the depthless wonder of Odyssial's optimization of madness itself. I want to see what Expedient Elimination of Suboptimal Factors looks like, and I want to do it in a situation where it doesn't ruin everything forever for us.
With our recent deductions, our chances of Ulyssian making a beneficial discovery that allows him to understand truths about Limit and the Great Curse are higher than ever.
With our recent deductions, our chances of Ulyssian making a beneficial discovery that allows him to understand truths about Limit and the Great Curse are higher than ever.
Or any of our friends, really. I like Pearl and Mountain Hero too. Even Nilul has... grown on me. Like a fungus.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
I will not write one single fucking word more in stunts or fanwork if "I want to see what happens" is sufficient reasoning to overturn a more than 2-1 verdict in votes.
It's just me tacking one more bit of argumentation onto what I've already put forward, hardly the sum total of my justifications. Is curiosity not a valid reason to want something?
You are of course free to write or not write whatever you wish, but I'd thank you to not attempt to blackmail the thread.
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- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Ah! Bastardized form of Clarity eh? Well he did get along pretty well with Autocthon.