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[Exalted, ?] Most High

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Tylonius said:
Why do people want so much Heartlessness? Its not really that good a thing?
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Orm wants a lot, because he wants to play a Quest where the PC is a complete sociopath and monster, he's frequently made statements to that point that seeing this is his chief motivation in making votes.

Myself, I don't want to go All In when we don't even know what's available in later Epochs, and I see Lord Strategos as a trap that'll force us to spend more resources defending it then we'd really want to. It would really be mud in our eye if we end up in a position where "Spend an action defending your claim or accept a huge penalty to your Greatness from being defeated on this point, and lose the access to the Sword of Creation to another department or a rival"

And as awesome as having access to the Sword of Creation would be, it is Not worth the energy we'll have to spend defending it, that Rihaku already hinted we'd have to do in future Epochs if we had too many major "Titles" to our name.
 
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Usernames said:
Sword of Creation? The fuck is that?

Can Odyssial dual wield Sword of Creation and Sword of Destruction (If The Sword of Endings is picked)?
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The Sword of Creation is the superweapon of Creation. The Scarlet Empress, absolute monarch of the Realm, was uplifted into her lofty position by dint of the simple fact that she was able to wield it. Access to the Sword would let us scour nations to their bedrock, make valleys where once there were mountains, boil the oceans, and send the howling hordes of the Raksha reeling back into the Wyld should they ever dare to trespass.

Oh, and it comes with a bitchin' hearthstone, too.
 
Was it a plot point that Moon was targeted because the line of Shogun Feng could also activate the Sword? I forget.
 
[X] Protector of the West
[X] The Conquering King
[X] The Sword of Endings

This gets us the whole of the West; has us be an awesome king; and finally because the idea of Odyssial killing so many things that he got a Sidereal dedicated to managing that, to be hilarious. Best reason.
Guile said:
Was it a plot point that Moon was targeted because the line of Shogun Feng could also activate the Sword? I forget.
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No it was because Flame's bloodline (plus some Charm or something) would have had crazy synergy with the Shogun Bloodline. At the mild cost of, what, 87% initial miscarriage rate.

Any descendants would have "can burn lifespan to gain power" combined with "has a really goddamn long lifespan".
 
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Guile said:
Was it a plot point that Moon was targeted because the line of Shogun Feng could also activate the Sword? I forget.
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I don't think the Shogunate had the Sword.

Alectai said:
Myself, I don't want to go All In when we don't even know what's available in later Epochs, and I see Lord Strategos as a trap that'll force us to spend more resources defending it then we'd really want to. It would really be mud in our eye if we end up in a position where "Spend an action defending your claim or accept a huge penalty to your Greatness from being defeated on this point, and lose the access to the Sword of Creation to another department or a rival"
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Don't worry, you won't have to spend any actions beating off rivals, Odyssial does that passively at Greatness 8+. The amount of grief they cause you is also reduced, the higher your Greatness is, and the amount of grief you inflict on anyone foolish enough to try is exponentially increased.

But I will note it's not sole and exclusive access to the Sword, he just has solitary access in emergency situations. Like... if 90% of Creation was destroyed by the Great Contagion and a fae invasion.
 
Alectai said:
Orm wants a lot, because he wants to play a Quest where the PC is a complete sociopath and monster, he's frequently made statements to that point that seeing this is his chief motivation in making votes.
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You seem to be misinterpreting my intentions here, to a degree; I simply think a glorious and terrible Odyssial, an individual who exemplifies both the best and the worst aspects of the First Age, makes for the most compelling narrative.
Alectai said:
And as awesome as having access to the Sword of Creation would be, it is Not worth the energy we'll have to spend defending it, that Rihaku already hinted we'd have to do in future Epochs if we had too many major "Titles" to our name.
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He also said that such enemies would inevitably be destroyed, adding to our legend. Let's not allow possible repercussions, which are easily surmountable, to prevent us from seizing worthwhile rewards.
 
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Orm Embar said:
You seem to be misinterpreting my intentions here, to a degree; I simply think a glorious and terrible Odyssial, an individual who exemplifies both the best and the worst of the First Age, makes for the most compelling narrative.
He also said that such enemies would inevitably be destroyed, adding to our legend. Let's not allow possible repercussions, no matter the possibility of mitigation or prevention, to prevent us from seizing worthwhile rewards.
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My concern is that the "Retribution" is more likely to garner a greater and greater coalition against us.

Solars... Don't back down in the face of danger, they tend to figure out a way of getting around it. At a certain point, we Will reach a point where we've offended enough people, and gained enough grudges that we would be at war against the entire Host, and Odyssial cannot defeat the entire might of the world seeking to drag him to their level.

And the damage will cascade from there. Even putting aside the "We have committed all but one of our "Safe" Heartlessness points before we've even seen many of the available options", the ripples caused from this are going to be immense, and not all of them will be in our favor. I really don't want to find out that we had a weaker showing in the Usurpation because we were the ones blamed for the initial assault, and the Sidereals and Dragon Blooded forced us into a Glasgow special to soften us up--using the bulwark that is Odyssial against the hammer of the rest of the Exalted Host, and then launching their strike at a critical moment.
 
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Alectai said:
My concern is that the "Retribution" is more likely to garner a greater and greater coalition against us.

Solars... Don't back down in the face of danger, they tend to figure out a way of getting around it. At a certain point, we Will reach a point where we've offended enough people, and gained enough grudges that we would be at war against the entire Host, and Odyssial cannot defeat the entire might of the world seeking to drag him to their level.
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Ody is not stupid. He won't pick a fight with the entire host.
 
Robotninja said:
Ody is not stupid. He won't pick a fight with the entire host.
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He won't, but he doesn't act in a vacuum either. If he gets to a certain point that "No amount of lessers are going to pin him down", and he got that way by pissing everyone off with his accumulation of power and advantage, then the Usurpation is going to start with a mass condemnation and attack by the rest of the Solar Host to soften us up before the actual betrayal starts.

Let's not forget that Greatness 9 Odyssial soloed nearly a Fourth of the Entire Five Fold Fellowship. They're not going to throw all of their lives away, they're going to play on the anger and resentment we've created by seizing all of this power and influence while crushing anyone who disagreed to turn the entire Solar Deliberative into a weapon to soften us up. Which'll in turn make the Usurpation far more devastating.
 
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Alectai said:
My concern is that the "Retribution" is more likely to garner a greater and greater coalition against us.

Solars... Don't back down in the face of danger, they tend to figure out a way of getting around it. At a certain point, we Will reach a point where we've offended enough people, and gained enough grudges that we would be at war against the entire Host, and Odyssial cannot defeat the entire might of the world seeking to drag him to their level.
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Uh...No Alectai. Odyssial isn't fucking retarded. Why the fuck would he pick a fight wtih the entire host?

Alectai said:
He won't, but he doesn't act in a vacuum either. If he gets to a certain point that "No amount of lessers are going to pin him down", and he got that way by pissing everyone off with his accumulation of power and advantage, then the Usurpation is going to start with a mass condemnation and attack by the rest of the Solar Host to soften us up before the actual betrayal starts.
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Pissing off who? For being too good of his job? For punishing people who got the stupid idea of fucking with Odyssial 9+ Greatness?
 
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Usernames said:
Uh...No Alectai. Odyssial isn't fucking retarded. Why the fuck would he pick a fight wtih the entire host?
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He wouldn't have to, they'd do it on their own between Great Curse twisting and jealousy and rage.

We know the Usurpation is Inevitable, and even a Greatness 10 Odyssial will be felled by it. We also know that Greatness 9 was a bloody roving apocalypse. How further beyond that is Greatness 10?

The only way that the One Beyond All could be felled would be by a coalition of his peers--not ones in his league, but ones with the theoretical potential to compete in it.
 
Alectai said:
My concern is that the "Retribution" is more likely to garner a greater and greater coalition against us.
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Rihaku has said that we passively beat back rivals and enemies who attempt to subvert us, and that our history of disproportionate retribution and high Greatness attenuate the frequency of such events.
Alectai said:
Solars... Don't back down in the face of danger, they tend to figure out a way of getting around it. At a certain point, we Will reach a point where we've offended enough people, and gained enough grudges that we would be at war against the entire Host, and Odyssial cannot defeat the entire might of the world seeking to drag him to their level.
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Finding a way around danger seems like a Sidereal thing; finding a way, period, full stop, end of story... that's Odyssial's shtick. He is not so incompetent as to let things reach that level, nor are his peers stupid enough to invite his displeasure.
 
You do have Lea to manage your social affairs as well. That said, certainly there are downsides from high Heartlessness, and they are at the very least commensurate (somewhat) with the rewards of Heartless Might. However, much of the consequences will have been ablated by the ravages of time. But some won't, and the situations where they won't may be disadvantageous to you.

Gods are naturally immortal, after all. And what we saw from Lytek was a Heartlessness 8 Odyssial.
 
Rihaku said:
You do have Lea to manage your social affairs as well. That said, certainly there are downsides from high Heartlessness, and they are at the very least commensurate (somewhat) with the rewards of Heartless Might. However, much of the consequences will have been ablated by the ravages of time. But some won't, and the situations where they won't may be disadvantageous to you.

Gods are naturally immortal, after all. And what we saw from Lytek was a Heartlessness 8 Odyssial.
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... Original Odyssial was only Heartlessness 8?

I... Uh...

I really think we should be careful about diving further in then that.
 
Alectai said:
Let's not forget that Greatness 9 Odyssial soloed nearly a Fourth of the Entire Five Fold Fellowship. They're not going to throw all of their lives away, they're going to play on the anger and resentment we've created by seizing all of this power and influence while crushing anyone who disagreed to turn the entire Solar Deliberative into a weapon to soften us up. Which'll in turn make the Usurpation far more devastating.
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If the Fivescore Fellowship could so easily manipulate so many of the Solars, the Usurpation would hardly have been necessary, as the Vision of Gold would have prevailed. This is base fearmongering.
 
Orm Embar said:
If the Fivescore Fellowship could so easily manipulate so many of the Solars, the Usurpation would hardly have been necessary, as the Vision of Gold would have prevailed. This is base fearmongering.
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I'm pretty sure there was actually a close debate over that? It's not like the chances of it succeeding were completely trivial, it's just that they chose to go with the 100% victory at a cost rather then the 60-70% chance victory that would have doomed the world if they failed, but would have completely saved it at no cost if they succeeded.

And enough called bullshit on this decision that several leaders were assassinated shortly after the course of action was decided upon. The whole "We all agreed on it" is a polite fiction to hide that anyone on the losing side that didn't recant was purged.
 
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Usernames said:
Sword of Creation? The fuck is that?

Can Odyssial dual wield Sword of Creation and Sword of Destruction (If The Sword of Endings is picked)?
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The sword of Creation isn't actually a sword, it's a network of war manses that can be used to nuke an potential threat anywhere in Creation. In the Age of Sorrows it formed the lynchpin of the Scarlet Empress's power.
 
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